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[markao]

I think the current predictions of 70 million would be a worrying figure for a small country like our own. Already urban areas are starting to feel. Perhaps if they created some more cities and towns in the North of England, Scotland and Wales and the population was more evenly distributed across the country then it may be feasible.

UK Crowded :lol

Sry but I'm Dutch

 

[brain_stew]

So lets say we leave the EU, would they go so far as to 'kick' those ex-EU Brits out of the countries they were residing in?

If they hadn't lived there long enough to claim local residency then yes, they'd be kicked out unless they could gain a visa as a non EU migrant worker. In such a scenario our pension fund would be put under massive strain from all those Brits returning from Spain. Economically it'd be a disaster.

 

[Sage00]

It's probably appropriate to quote the conclusion of the TUC's study on the matter we are discussing.

8.1 A number of clear messages emerge from this study. Firstly, host countries
gain from migration. It is possible to debate the size of these gains, but the
important point for British debates is that immigration does not have a
negative impact: overall levels of employment and wages are slightly higher as
a result of immigration, and migrant workers pay more in taxes than the value
of the public services they receive. When studied at the level of the country as a
whole, the old accusations of the extreme right, that immigrants take native
workers’ jobs or are a drain on the welfare state, are as false as they have ever
been.

8.3 Thirdly, the impact on migrant workers themselves is generally positive,
but individuals can face significant risks of exploitation and social exclusion,
even though they may have higher incomes than they would have had if they
had not migrated.

8.4 This does not mean that it is impossible for immigration to be associated
with problems, and a positive policy on immigration will only win support if
these problems are addressed too. Firstly, we have good reason to believe that
local problems in delivering public services can arise when authorities fails to
anticipate the arrival of significant numbers of migrant workers and their
families. This problem is caused by poor planning, not immigration, but failure
here is very likely to lead to a reaction against immigration, rather than calls
for better public services. Unions would encourage the Government to work
towards more accurate local-level predictions of the numbers of migrant
workers and dependents and the capacity to respond rapidly to changes.

8.9 Native workers and their families can gain a great deal from the increased
output and net fiscal contribution migrants bring to the table. But there are
potential losers as well as winners, and the first beneficiary of Britain’s
migration dividend should be an improved social wage.

http://www.tuc.org.uk/extras/migration.pdf

 

[jamieson87]

On a lighter note, before I turn in. I wonder if Brown will have the balls to make a joke in the debate.

One about his mic not working maybe??

 

[brain_stew]

On a lighter note, before I turn in. I wonder if Brown will have the balls to make a joke in the debate.

One about his mic not working maybe??

That'd be in very poor taste.

 

[Dark Machine]

They should send more immigrants to Liverpool, our population is declining rapidly.

 

[industrian]

UK Crowded :lol

Sry but I'm Dutch

Pretty much.

The Netherlands is around half the size of Scotland and has over three times as many people.

 

[Sage00]

Pretty much.

The Netherlands is around half the size of Scotland and has over three times as many people.

But over 70% of people in Scotland live in an area that makes up less than 10% of the land.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

For a brief time, I was one of the benefit sponges people despise so much. For about 2 months I milked around £500 out of the Job Centre - I claimed I was looking for a job, but really just made it all up to get free money. It was great fun, and I escaped with the money in the end by getting a university placement. Now i'm on a fat ass student loan and I still don't need a job. For a couple of months in the summer though, i'm going to work abroad in a country with a £10 minimum wage, then afterwards return with my thousands for a two month long holiday. And then the next semester starts and the student loan increases some more. Playing the system is such fun.

Have at you, GAF.

 

[Linkified]

It would be interesting to see if people welcomed the policy of '1.2 out 5 in', that's for sure :lol

Oh if you were going to do that prevent the 5 million from getting back in. :lol

 

[Sage00]

For a brief time, I was one of the benefit sponges people despise so much. For about 2 months I milked around £500 out of the Job Centre - I claimed I was looking for a job, but really just made it all up to get free money. It was great fun, and I escaped with the money in the end by getting a university placement. Now i'm on a fat ass student loan and I still don't need a job. For a couple of months in the summer though, i'm going to work abroad in a country with a £10 minimum wage, then afterwards return with my thousands for a two month long holiday. And then the next semester starts and the student loan increases some more. Playing the system is such fun.

Have at you, GAF.

As my family's income is low, I receive the education bursary. I'm in Scotland, so I have my university fees paid for me. As well as that I take the maximum loan, which all goes untouched into my bank account and when the interest rates rise back above inflation I'll start making money on it.

At the end of my degree, I plan to leave the country, and all that money will go with me without ever having spent a penny.

 

[industrian]

But over 70% of people in Scotland live in an area that makes up less than 10% of the land.

IIRC over 50% of people in Scotland live within 30 miles of Glasgow. We could have a population of over 20 million and still have lots of room to spare.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

As my family's income is low, I receive the education bursary. I'm in Scotland, so I have my university fees paid for me. As well as that I take the maximum loan, which all goes untouched into my bank account and when the interest rates rise back above inflation I'll start making money on it.

At the end of my degree, I plan to leave the country, and all that money will go with me without ever having spent a penny.

I live in Scotland too, high five

Spoiler

Or not, since you and I will be leaving with all the shit we stole

 

[industrian]

As my family's income is low, I receive the education bursary. I'm in Scotland, so I have my university fees paid for me. As well as that I take the maximum loan, which all goes untouched into my bank account and when the interest rates rise back above inflation I'll start making money on it.

At the end of my degree, I plan to leave the country, and all that money will go with me without ever having spent a penny.

Since both my parents actually work, I didn't get shit from the government in terms of a bursary. I got a loan (bare minimum allowed, because both my parents work), and I got my four years tuition paid though.

I've been on the dole twice. Both in which I got the bare minimum allowed because of my circumstances (no dependants, both my parents had jobs, etc.)

See a pattern emerging here?

 

[Meadows]

For a brief time, I was one of the benefit sponges people despise so much. For about 2 months I milked around £500 out of the Job Centre - I claimed I was looking for a job, but really just made it all up to get free money. It was great fun, and I escaped with the money in the end by getting a university placement. Now i'm on a fat ass student loan and I still don't need a job. For a couple of months in the summer though, i'm going to work abroad in a country with a £10 minimum wage, then afterwards return with my thousands for a two month long holiday. And then the next semester starts and the student loan increases some more. Playing the system is such fun.

Have at you, GAF.

Sweet

 

[Sage00]

Since both my parents actually work, I didn't get shit from the government in terms of a bursary. I got a loan (bare minimum allowed, because both my parents work), and I got my four years tuition paid though.

I've been on the dole twice. Both in which I got the bare minimum allowed because of my circumstances (no dependants, both my parents had jobs, etc.)

See a pattern emerging here?

Clearly since your parents both have jobs, you must be super-rich and so they can just give you the money!

Spoiler

The threshold needs to be raised significantly.

Actually, wasn't getting rid of or at least cutting the repayment of SLC loans an SNP manifesto pledge? Did they think we would just forget? :lol

 

[xbhaskarx]

free movement of workers is essential to the EU's existence as an economic union, if you wanted to get rid of that, or even limit it, then you'd have to leave the EU, and that's a different argument entirely.

If only Gordon Brown had the ability to explain this concept in one easy to understand sentence, he might still have a job in a few days.
But of course he claims he didn't have time to explain it... even though he subsequently talked to the woman about her grandkids for three minutes.

 

[industrian]

Clearly since your parents both have jobs, you must be super-rich and so they can just give you the money!

Spoiler

The threshold needs to be raised significantly.

Actually, wasn't getting rid of or at least cutting the repayment of SLC loans an SNP manifesto pledge? Did they think we would just forget? :lol

They pledged to get rid of the Graduate Endowment Fee, which they thankfully have. Then again that's something you wouldn't have to worry about anyways.

 

[Sage00]

They pledged to get rid of the Graduate Endowment Fee, which they thankfully have. Then again that's something you wouldn't have to worry about anyways.

They scrapped that, but they also promised to pay off all SLC loans in their manifesto then scrapped the plans after they couldn't get support from the other parties. So it's not really their fault, but a fault of all MSPs. Welcome to hung parliaments, everyone else still interested?

Students in Scotland have expressed dismay after the SNP shelved plans to scrap student debt. Nationalist finance minister John Swinney announced last Wednesday that the government would not deliver its manifesto promise to eliminate the debt accrued by students. The SNP had previously promised Scottish students that the £1.9 billion package of debt held by the Student Loans Company Scotland would be cancelled.

But in a speech to the Scottish Executive, John Swinney said: "I know there is insufficient parliamentary support for student debt servicing for loans to grants and we must therefore prioritise funding on policies that we can deliver and which will be supported by Parliament.

"I am therefore not allocating funding for student debt servicing in the period of the Budget.

"However, despite the constraints we face, we will deliver funding for a phased transition from student loans to grants, starting with part-time students."

http://www.journal-online.co.uk/article/2691-snp-breaks-promise-on-student-debt

 

[TwiztidElf]

http://eutruth.org.uk/

 

[industrian]

http://eutruth.org.uk/

They didn't mention the SNP. Phew. Dodged a bullet there.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Since both my parents actually work, I didn't get shit from the government in terms of a bursary. I got a loan (bare minimum allowed, because both my parents work), and I got my four years tuition paid though.

I've been on the dole twice. Both in which I got the bare minimum allowed because of my circumstances (no dependants, both my parents had jobs, etc.)

See a pattern emerging here?

We're in the same boat.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I accomplish nothing no matter what I do. I live in Labour heartland. David Milliband is my MP, the man tipped to be the next Labour leader. No matter what I do the outcome will not change so my vote's worthless at this point anyway. Besides, I'll be damned if I vote for someone I have no interest in seeing elected just to live under the illusion that I've exercised my franchise.

Then do it to help drive up the Lib Dem vote, put Labour in third place and take away their mandate.

 

[Dambrosi]

They should send more immigrants to Liverpool, our population is declining rapidly.

Yes please, I'd be up for that. Fuck the old bigoted biddies (though not literally) :lol

Spoiler

Fellow Liverpudlian here.

wierdo anti-EU site

O__o

 

[industrian]

I accomplish nothing no matter what I do. I live in Labour heartland. David Milliband is my MP, the man tipped to be the next Labour leader. No matter what I do the outcome will not change so my vote's worthless at this point anyway. Besides, I'll be damned if I vote for someone I have no interest in seeing elected just to live under the illusion that I've exercised my franchise.

If you do not vote you lose your right to bitch about the government. It's as simple as that.

We're in the same boat.

Anyone up for a good ol' fashioned ScotGAF circle jerk?

 

[SmokyDave]

The average voter IS a fucking bigot. Not gonna be politically correct about this fucking bullshit at all.

"too many people" is it fuck.

Is that you Gordon?

 

[J Tourettes]

They should send more immigrants to Liverpool, our population is declining rapidly.

That's certainly one way to prevent immigration.

 

[blazinglord]

UK Crowded :lol

Sry but I'm Dutch

So? I'm talking about the UK which has a far larger population centered around urban areas. Anyway, from what I've read, Dutch voters are increasingly concerned about the impact of immigration - hence the popularity of Geert Wilders no? Dismiss the issue of immigration at your peril, or see your surroundings for how it is and do something about it. Like increase resources, encourage people to relocate to the less-populated areas of the UK or if you don't want to do that - think about having a yearly cap with the aim of keeping the overall population at a sustainable level.

 

[British Monsoon]

Anyone else pretty much sickened by the way the media's harrasing that poor women? She needs a police escort just to get out of her fucking house and all these dozy reporters are standing around saying stuff like "Well it doesn't look like she's going to make a statement this morning..." - a statement? You fucks harrassed her all yesterday, set up camp outside her house all goddamn evening and this morning, and in the hope of what? A soundbyte? Some scathing recrimination of Gordon that you can flash up on your BREAKING NEWS feed? Fuck.

 

[phisheep]

The Old Lady isn't a conscious bigot, she simply demonstrates the opinion of a large portion of the British lower-middle/working class public influenced heavily by the tabloid press, that their opinion is actually bigoted and f**king stupid is simply the sad case in this country. Sorry, but I'm just sick of this crap already...I'll never be PM, because I wouldn't wait till I was in the car, it's called being polite to people, I've done it with my grandmother when she's going off on one about dem blacks or whatever...yes granny yes, well maybe it's not quite like that...and later...Jeeze mum did you hear your mum today? She is going more batsh*t by the day.

Except that this is nowhere near what Mrs Duffy actually said, or even implied.

Rochdale has a relatively high non-white population and, if she had been racially bigoted there's plenty she could have complained about - but she didn't. She complained only about Eastern European immigration - that's current immigration.

No evidence of racism or bigotry in that, and it is a perfectly valid thing to have differing views on.

 

[Garjon]

They should send more immigrants to Liverpool, our population is declining rapidly.

Wait, really?
Though I'm not surprised, Liverpool is one of the hardest hit by the current climate. Every time I go into town, I count the number of abandoned building sites... and burned down estates.

That's certainly one way to prevent immigration.

Oh you

 

[Salazar]

Though I'm not surprised, Liverpool is one of the hardest hit by the current climate. Every time I go into town, I count the number of abandoned building sites... and burned down estates.

At least you have a successful football side. Oh, wait.

 

[Chinner]

Is that you Gordon?

To be frank, I'm pretty ecstatic that both Gordon Brown and Nick Griffin are posters in my thread!!!

 

[SmokyDave]

To be frank, I'm pretty ecstatic that both Gordon Brown and Nick Griffin are posters in my thread!!!

Oooh, you cheeky little tinker.

I still don't see any reason to believe the old lady was bigoted. Not terribly articulate? sure, but not necessarily bigoted.

 

[Nexus Zero]

I was on the dole for three months when I finished uni - they threatened to cut me off for not showing up to one of their pointless meetings even though I was in London having an interview.

The problem with the Job Centre is that all the jobs they offer are usually unskilled, local placements, which you can understand when you see the sort of local dossers that float around it, but not very useful for people trying to actually start a career.

 

[Roxas]

Wait, really?
Though I'm not surprised, Liverpool is one of the hardest hit by the current climate. Every time I go into town, I count the number of abandoned building sites... and burned down estates.

No no, thats just Liverpool.

 

[iapetus]

Loved the BNP interview on Radio 4 this morning - particularly the bit where they said that although immigration would be stopped completely, this wouldn't include Ireland as they see it as part of Great Britain.

No no, thats just Liverpool.

Why does the river Mersey run through Liverpool?

 

[killer_clank]

I have friends who have basically just left school last year and are/were on benefits. Despite still living with their god damn parents. :lol

£60 a week, which they spend on comic books, alcohol and video games. To get it, all they have to do is go to a meeting every fortnight and prove they're looking for a job, although that just pretty much amounts to lying about going on job websites, and handing in the odd application form.

Now, I know technically I scrounge off the government as well as a student, but at least I actually need that money! There's definitely something horribly wrong if lazy teenagers who live with relatively well off parents can still get unemployment benefit.

 

[Hammer24]

In Germanys newspapers today there is talk, that the UK´s credit rating score is next to be lowered by S&P, as early as end of next week.
Has any of the programs something substantial to say about spending cuts?

 

[Ashes]

hmm... interesting. I wonder whether the effects of a hung parliament are going to influence that decision.

 

[Varion]

£60 a week, which they spend on comic books, alcohol and video games. To get it, all they have to do is go to a meeting every fortnight and prove they're looking for a job, although that just pretty much amounts to lying about going on job websites, and handing in the odd application form.

Now, I know technically I scrounge off the government as well as a student, but at least I actually need that money! There's definitely something horribly wrong if lazy teenagers who live with relatively well off parents can still get unemployment benefit.

I know 30+ year olds who still do this :lol I can't help but wonder what percentage of those who get jobseekers are really jobseeking.

I dunno how people can do it to be honest. After the amount that's been invested in my education by both me and my parents, I'd feel like a gigantic failure if I just lived off benefits forever. Wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about claming them and spending them all on games while actively searching though, I'm going to be paying for everyone else to do the same in the taxes I'll be paying for the rest of my life as it is :lol

 

[Zenith]

In Germanys newspapers today there is talk, that the UK´s credit rating score is next to be lowered by S&P, as early as end of next week.
Has any of the programs something substantial to say about spending cuts?

BBC did an analysis to compare all the quantifiable promises to cut spending made by the parties and compared it to the deficit. Lib Dems were highest with 25% of the deficit accounted for, one of the others (pretty sure Labour) was lowest with 11%.

 

[Dabookerman]

I know 30+ year olds who still do this :lol I can't help but wonder what percentage of those who get jobseekers are really jobseeking.

I dunno how people can do it to be honest. After the amount that's been invested in my education by both me and my parents, I'd feel like a gigantic failure if I just lived off benefits forever. Wouldn't feel the slightest bit bad about claming them and spending them all on games while actively searching though, I'm going to be paying for everyone else to do the same in the taxes I'll be paying for the rest of my life as it is :lol

I'm on JSA atm. And I'm fucking pissed off about it. I hate being on it. I don't get any of the money, it goes to my mum. I worked and trained so hard to get the skills needed to get the job I wanted, and I'm finding it incredibly hard to get it.
They can sod off if they try suggesting a supermarket.

BBC did an analysis to compare all the quantifiable promises to cut spending made by the parties and compared it to the deficit. Lib Dems were highest with 25% of the deficit accounted for, one of the others (pretty sure Labour) was lowest with 11%.

I feel a bit stupid, but does the higher percentage mean most positive? Or vice versa?

 

[Zenith]

I feel a bit stupid, but does the higher percentage mean most positive? Or vice versa?

higher = postive. ideally they should account for nearly all of it. there were some recent articles about how all the parties were hiding the depth of the spending cuts from the publc.

 

[prettyvacant77]

I feel a bit stupid, but does the higher percentage mean most positive? Or vice versa?

I listened to the same broadcast, basically it meant that the Lib Dems had actually provided figures to explain how they were going to cover about 25 or 26% of the deficit in the next parliament whereas Labour and the Conservatives had explained about 17& and 11% respectively (can't recall which was which).

I think I've spent more time listening to Radio 4 in the last two weeks than the rest of my life combined :lol :lol

 

[sprsk]

Just chiming in to say the whole Brown/Mic incident made Japanese news.

 

[Dabookerman]

Just chiming in to say the whole Brown/Mic incident made Japanese news.

You fucking kidding me?

Jesus, i've never seen something so over blown.

 

[SmokyDave]

Just chiming in to say the whole Brown/Mic incident made Japanese news.

Blimey! I'd be interested to see how that was reported.

higher = postive. ideally they should account for nearly all of it. there were some recent articles about how all the parties were hiding the depth of the spending cuts from the publc.

My worry is that they're hiding it from themselves as well.

 

[Hammer24]

BBC did an analysis to compare all the quantifiable promises to cut spending made by the parties and compared it to the deficit. Lib Dems were highest with 25% of the deficit accounted for, one of the others (pretty sure Labour) was lowest with 11%.

Thx! Is this a big topic in the debate right now? I mean, the UK has no Euro safety net, so this could potentially be big.

 

[PowderedToast]

Call me naive but I think that if we can get proportional representation introduced, we can turn the political landscape on its head.

but not necessarily for the better. PR sounds great on paper but in practice could be much worse than FPTP. now it's obvious why LD want electoral reform, FPTP has been fucking them since their inception. but PR is not the way to go, i just hope they can find a better solution. i have no idea what that might be, however.