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[Mr. Sam]

Call me naive but I think that if we can get proportional representation introduced, we can turn the political landscape on its head.

 

[Dark Machine]

How do we even go about solving the media problems in this country? We seem to spend half the thread talking about the way they are corrupting our society and politics, but does anyone have any ideas on how we'd even remotely go about fixing it. I have ideas about how to fight loads of the problems in this country, but i'm totally at a loss here.

You can't bring in laws regarding the press easily, the "CENSORSHIP!" button is just waiting to be pressed by the hacks. Soviet Union/Nazi Germany comparisons would be rife. I think it's scandalous that one man can own and dictate the course of 40% of the news media in our country (and he still wants more) but to actually come out and enforce balance on people would be to deny them thier 'supposed' opinion. I say 'supposed' because quite clearly their opinion is dictated by the people paying their bills.

 

[Empty]

Sun headline looks like it was clipped from a CSI YEEEAAAAAH meme, but done un-ironically and without the final panel.

 

[Chinner]

Call me naive but I think that if we can get proportional representation introduced, we can turn the political landscape on its head.

Pretty much. I don't like to encourage tactical voting, but even if you don't like any of them I'd suggest voting Lb Dem so you can get electoral reform and then vote in someone you do want next election.

 

[JonathanEx]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/mappster39/suncunts3.jpg

Certainly an unusual take. Not as direct as I was expecting. Oh and:

Just wait, we'll have the real political comment on News In Briefs again.

 

[Dark Machine]

There isnt a media problem in this country. The UK has one massive advantage over all other countries in the world: The BBC. The BBC is the voice of reason in political commentary but at the same time people who want to read left-wing, right-wing, big-titted girls, etc can do so in the papers.

Murdoch will destroy the BBC, he's made it quite clear that's his intention. He (through his son James) drew a line in the sand last year when they accused the BBC of being an Orwellian mind control device of the state. He's backed Cameron because Dave promised to break up the BBC and hand more power to commercial news agencies, which in this country is dominated by Murdoch.

 

[Empty]

Call me naive but I think that if we can get proportional representation introduced, we can turn the political landscape on its head.

I think so too

 

[Mr. Sam]

I think it's scandalous that one man can own and dictate the course of 40% of the news media in our country

Could be worse. Look at Italy.

Edit: In fact, it's so bad over there that some cite Murdoch as a source of alternative views, lol.

 

[jamieson87]

There isnt a media problem in this country. The UK has one massive advantage over all other countries in the world: The BBC. The BBC is the voice of reason in political commentary but at the same time people who want to read left-wing, right-wing, big-titted girls, etc can do so in the papers.

It's impossible to report on political events and remain neutral.

The media is not the problem, it's the society who let the media dictate their opinion who are the problem.

 

[RedShift]

I honestly don't understand how someone could buy the Sun, or any other tabloid rags.

I dunno, maybe I'm elitist but it just seems like people who read such low brow papers have no desire to better themselves intellectually and are happy to let a newspaper tell them want to think and how to vote as long as it has boobies in.

 

[louis89]

:lol :lol :lol

I love elections.

 

[Dark Machine]

people who read such low brow papers have no desire to better themselves

And here you understand one of the major problems within British society today, the fact that people REVEL in their own poverty, REVEL in being on benefits, and take massive umbridge with anyone who says that they're wrong. This is all in my humble opinion of course.

 

[KibblesBits]

So I'm thinking of immigrating over to the UK.
What's the climate like for newcomers there?

 

[Dark Machine]

So I'm thinking of immigrating over to the UK.
What's the climate like for newcomers there?

Depends how bad your accent is.

 

[Kowak]

So I'm thinking of immigrating over to the UK.
What's the climate like for newcomers there?

You will be subjected to abuse from the moment you enter. We dont want you here!!!!!!

Spoiler

its not bad as long as you are in London, plus you can take my place as I am leaving

]

 

[RedShift]

So I'm thinking of immigrating over to the UK.
What's the climate like for newcomers there?

Ask again in 8 days

 

[Dambrosi]

I honestly don't understand how someone could buy the Sun, or any other tabloid rags.

I dunno, maybe I'm elitist but it just seems like people who read such low brow papers have no desire to better themselves intellectually and are happy to let a newspaper tell them want to think and how to vote as long as it has boobies in.

To be fair, thinking hurts.

:lol

 

[KibblesBits]

Depends how bad your accent is.

As a little boy I always felt like I was in the wrong country. I was interested in a lot of things British and UK. Now I look at the BNP and what's going on over there and I feel sad and unwelcome.

Shame.

 

[Incognito]

the independent headline is brilliant

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Dark Machine]

As a little boy I always felt like I was in the wrong country. I was interested in a lot of things British and UK. Now I look at the BNP and what's going on over there and I feel sad and unwelcome.

Shame.

A couple pages back in this thread some people posted really good analysis/opinion on why immigration and hating on immigrants is so popular here. For me it's Long term mistrust of foreigners/europe + recession and loss of jobs + media + percieved cheating of welfare state = BNP

 

[defel]

Animals Count Party:

"Want to create a NHS for animals"

wtf :lol

 

[jamieson87]

As a little boy I always felt like I was in the wrong country. I was interested in a lot of things British and UK. Now I look at the BNP and what's going on over there and I feel sad and unwelcome.

Shame.

If you are willing to come here, work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy then you are more than welcome.

I of course do think there should be an immigration cap, it's just logical.

I'd much rather have a hard working immigrant who is proud to call the UK their home than a lazy workshy benefit sponge in our society.

 

[Rich!]

As long as it ensures that there's not a chance in hell that Labour will get re-elected, I'm all for Gordon Brown making a twat of himself.

 

[Dambrosi]

If you are willing to come here, work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy then you are more than welcome.

I of course do think there should be an immigration cap, it's just logical.

I'd much rather have a hard working immigrant who is proud to call the UK their home than a lazy workshy benefit sponge in our society.

Just out of interest, is that how you view most immigrants to the UK?

 

[freethought]

There isnt a media problem in this country. The UK has one massive advantage over all other countries in the world: The BBC. The BBC is the voice of reason in political commentary but at the same time people who want to read left-wing, right-wing, big-titted girls, etc can do so in the papers.

First of all, plenty of other countries have a public broadcasting service so the BBC isn't that unique. Secondly, the BBC is constantly under massive pressure from the right-wing press and the Conservatives and this forces the BBC to justify it license fee, mainly through attracting ratings. In terms of news this forces them to ape competitors in terms of tone of coverage and, most importantly, what's covered. Lastly, the BBC is completely reliant on the government to continue operating. So, when the charter is up for renewal, they usually take a softer view on the government, when the charter renewal is further away, they take a harder tone. Just a cursory analysis of BBC coverage of the poll tax demo back in 1990 shows they held the government line almost exactly. That was the Thatcher government by the way.

Call me naive but I think that if we can get proportional representation introduced, we can turn the political landscape on its head.

You're naive.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Just out of interest, is that how you view most immigrants to the UK?

Depends on who you talk to. To me, there are more 'indigenous' 'sponges' than immigrant ones. I love me some inverted commas.

 

[Veidt]

If you are willing to come here, work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy then you are more than welcome.

I of course do think there should be an immigration cap, it's just logical.

I'd much rather have a hard working immigrant who is proud to call the UK their home than a lazy workshy benefit sponge in our society.

Isn't most of the immigration cap targeting non-EU immigrants?
And aren't most of the immigrants mostly of newly joined EU countries?
Pardon me if I'm wrong, but isn't it so that non-EU immigrants, tend to spend their money within the UK ( as they are often refugees) and EU immigrants usually spend their money outside of the UK?

I'm fairly confused when it comes to this.

 

[jamieson87]

Just out of interest, is that how you view most immigrants to the UK?

No, not at all. I beleive most immigrants come here to find work and make money.

I don't beleive you should be granted entry into the UK without a job offer. Or at least a valuable skill set that would be of benefit to our society.

I know a few people personally who are happy to live off the state and serve no purpose to our society other than to bring up offspring with the same mindset as their own. In my experience it is these people who complain most about immigration.

Immigration can be a great thing if managed properly.

 

[Chinner]

I of course do think there should be an immigration cap, it's just logical.
.

can you tell me the argument then? and what number should the immigration cap should be around?

 

[jamieson87]

can you tell me the argument then? and what number should the immigration cap should be around?

This countries resources, like any, are limited. It does not make sense for us to allow free entry to immigrants into our country if it means these resources are stretched.

By resources I mean housing, medical care, policing ect.

I cannot give you a figure as to what the cap should be. I cannot give a number if I am not aware of the capabilities of our resources.

 

[Empty]

.

I don't beleive you should be granted entry into the UK without a job offer. Or at least a valuable skill set that would be of benefit to our society.

why then do you support a cap, as we already only allow very specific skilled immigrants into the country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

 

[Dabookerman]

So I'm thinking of immigrating over to the UK.
What's the climate like for newcomers there?

FUCK OFF. WE'RE FULL!


Is what the sensationalist view is.

If you are willing to come here, work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy then you are more than welcome.

I of course do think there should be an immigration cap, it's just logical.

I'd much rather have a hard working immigrant who is proud to call the UK their home than a lazy workshy benefit sponge in our society.

Yes, but the irony is. A lot of British people are benefit sponges as well!

can you tell me the argument then? and what number should the immigration cap should be around?

12,567

 

[jamieson87]

why then do you support a cap, as we already only allow very specific skilled immigrants into the country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

What are the circumstances around EU immigration?

 

[jamieson87]

FUCK OFF. WE'RE FULL!


Is what the sensationalist view is.



Yes, but the irony is. A lot of British people are benefit sponges as well!

12,567

When I said benefit spongers, I did mean British people.

 

[blazinglord]

This countries resources, like any, are limited. It does not make sense for us to allow free entry to immigrants into our country if it means these resources are stretched.

By resources I mean housing, medical care, policing ect.

I cannot give you a figure as to what the cap should be. I cannot give a number if I am not aware of the capabilities of our resources.

Also the cap should be flexible. It would be ridiculous to just have the same arbitrary figure year after year. The Tories propose a flexible cap to meet the needs of the country which I think is completely sensible. Much of the Western worlds have a cap on immigration, including Australia, America and (I think) Canada.

why then do you support a cap, as we already only allow very specific skilled immigrants into the country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

Because as the wikipedia page points out, it 'lacks an overall cap on the number of people who can qualify under the points criteria'.

 

[Linkified]

why then do you support a cap, as we already only allow very specific skilled immigrants into the country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

But does that apply to people from the EU, or is that just for ROTW.

 

[Dabookerman]

When I said benefit spongers, I did mean British people.

Well you were referring to Immigrants in the same sentence.

But regardless. It's more the governments fault in both cases.


If you come from a war torn country, and you see a developed nation, offering you a place to live and benefit support, I doubt you would say no.

It's all down to regulation.

Caps don't sort out the problem.

 

[Sage00]

This countries resources, like any, are limited. It does not make sense for us to allow free entry to immigrants into our country if it means these resources are stretched.

By resources I mean housing, medical care, policing ect.

I cannot give you a figure as to what the cap should be. I cannot give a number if I am not aware of the capabilities of our resources.

Err.. how are housing, NHS, police limited? They're limited by the revenue generated by taxation. Let's break it down:

EU Migrants and Points-System Non-EU Migrants:
1 - Vast majority have jobs and contribute to income tax and NI.
2 - Spend money and generate further tax revenue.
3 - By allowing them in we are part of the EU and have access to the largest single market in the world, a massive advantage to our businesses and again, the reason they generate so much tax revenue.
Overall: More than pay for their own 'resources' they use, and in fact provide disproportionately more.

'British' workers:
1 - High unemployment has many people on the dole, wasting 'resource money' having their bills paid by the govt.
2 - Unionised workers bargain for higher wages at the expense of jobs, their business and economic performance as a whole.
3 - Highest paid attempt to dodge taxation via loopholes i.e Lord Ashcroft.
Overall: Waste resources. Waste waste waste waste. The problem is here, and nowhere else.

The truth is immigrants only benefit the country. Any view otherwise is wrong, it's a scam perpetuated by tabloids, who of course represent the views of their readers. Reader who want a scapegoat to blame their failures on, and the recent rise in immigration is an easy target.

Here's a cap: Total up the amount of people in the world who want and can get a job in Britain, and that should be your number.

 

[blazinglord]

But does that apply to people from the EU, or is that just for ROTW.

No, it only applies to those from outside the EU. But I don't think EU immigration is going to increase any more dramatically than it already has over the past five years seeing as European enlargement has been put on hold. If Turkey joins, then the shit will really hit the fan.

 

[Empty]

'lacks an overall cap on the number of people who can qualify under the points criteria'.

and? do you think the country is overpopulated? why wouldn't we want skilled workers in this country boosting the economy, creating jobs, bringing innovation to our companies, lowering the age of our society that reduces strain on pensions plus public service and doing it with the high work ethic that comes from being willing to move yourself halfway across the world to better the lives of you and your family.

 

[brain_stew]

Fuck it, I'm not voting. Fuck the press, fuck the politicians and fuck anyone who thinks we actually live in anything even resembling a functional democracy.

This accomplishes nothing. Nothing.

 

[Dambrosi]

No, not at all. I beleive most immigrants come here to find work and make money.

I don't beleive you should be granted entry into the UK without a job offer. Or at least a valuable skill set that would be of benefit to our society.

I know a few people personally who are happy to live off the state and serve no purpose to our society other than to bring up offspring with the same mindset as their own. In my experience it is these people who complain most about immigration.

Immigration can be a great thing if managed properly.

Fair enough, and eloquently expressed.

I agree that immigration is absolutely essential for our country to function, since they are willing to do the jobs our own people won't/can't. It also enriches our culture through diversity, pumps much-needed income into the UK economy, and increases the number of young people in the country, alleviating the aging population crisis.

The main problem isn't immigration, or even the media's constant scapegoating (though that's a major part of it IMO), but, as others have said, the fact that politicians find the issue so sensitive that they are unwilling (or, more likely, unable) to engage with ordinary people about their prejudices and correct them. They're scared of being seen as "soft" in an environment where popular bigotry - and it IS bigotry, born purely of ignorance and fed by media hysteria - is, unfortunately, conflated with genuine concern for the country's future. It's a sad state of affairs, really, and I have no solutions except mass re-education on the matter.

BTW, currently a "lazy workshy benefit sponge" (as in, long term unemployed) myself. I do search for work every day though, and at least I don't plan on having kids any time soon

Spoiler

or ever :lol

.

Fake Edit: Oh, and fuck people who don't vote. Have fun handing the country over to Murdoch and company.

 

[Empty]

What are the circumstances around EU immigration?

free movement of workers is essential to the EU's existence as an economic union, if you wanted to get rid of that, or even limit it, then you'd have to leave the EU, and that's a different argument entirely.

 

[blazinglord]

Err.. how are housing, NHS, police limited? They're limited by the revenue generated by taxation. Let's break it down:

EU Migrants and Points-System Non-EU Migrants:
1 - Vast majority have jobs and contribute to income tax and NI.
2 - Spend money and generate further tax revenue.
3 - By allowing them in we are part of the EU and have access to the largest single market in the world, a massive advantage to our businesses and again, the reason they generate so much tax revenue.
Overall: More than pay for their own 'resources' they use, and in fact provide disproportionately more.

'British' workers:
1 - High unemployment has many people on the dole, wasting 'resource money' having their bills paid by the govt.
2 - Unionised workers bargain for higher wages at the expense of jobs, their business and economic performance as a whole.
3 - Highest paid attempt to dodge taxation via loopholes i.e Lord Ashcroft.
Overall: Waste resources. Waste waste waste waste. The problem is here, and nowhere else.

The truth is immigrants only benefit the country. Any view otherwise is wrong, it's a scam perpetuated by tabloids, who of course represent the views of their readers. Reader who want a scapegoat to blame their failures on, and the recent rise in immigration is an easy target.

Here's a cap: Total up the amount of people in the world who want and can get a job in Britain, and that should be your number.

It isn't as black and white (pardon the pun) as you, or indeed anti-immigration campaigners make out. Yes some immigration benefits the country a great deal. But a complete open-door policy does have its negatives - it's a drain on resources, domestic jobs go to cheap labour and perhaps most important of all - there is a breakdown in social cohesion. There is a real problem of ghettos in this country, and it will only get worse. Why is it that the London 7/7 bombers were British-born? Because of the lack of integration of immigrants to this country. There have already been racial riots in Northern parts of the country. I think Britain is a tolerant and welcoming country as a whole, but there is a limit how much immigration Britain can take before we end up like France. We are a small island after all, and we do not have unlimited space or resources.

I think also there is another issue of failed multiculturalism which breeds division and mutual suspicion. We have some immigrants who quite forcibly assert their way of life - sharia courts for instance, which I don't entirely agree with. I think Britain should adopt a more monocultural policy like America or Australia. A society where different people from all backgrounds unite together in a melting pot of blended cultures under one country and one set of values would go a long way in creating peace and cultural prosperity in all of our lives.

 

[freethought]

This accomplishes nothing. Nothing.

I accomplish nothing no matter what I do. I live in Labour heartland. David Milliband is my MP, the man tipped to be the next Labour leader. No matter what I do the outcome will not change so my vote's worthless at this point anyway. Besides, I'll be damned if I vote for someone I have no interest in seeing elected just to live under the illusion that I've exercised my franchise.

 

[blazinglord]

and? do you think the country is overpopulated? why wouldn't we want skilled workers in this country boosting the economy, creating jobs, bringing innovation to our companies, lowering the age of our society that reduces strain on pensions plus public service and doing it with the high work ethic that comes from being willing to move yourself halfway across the world to better the lives of you and your family.

I think the current predictions of 70 million would be a worrying figure for a small country like our own. Already urban areas are starting to feel crowded. Perhaps if they created some more cities and towns in the North of England, Scotland and Wales and the population was more evenly distributed across the country then it may be feasible.

 

[jamieson87]

free movement of workers is essential to the EU's existence as an economic union, if you wanted to get rid of that, or even limit it, then you'd have to leave the EU, and that's a different argument entirely.

I don't want to leave the EU, quite the opposite. I beleive in our strength in unity. It's the only thing that allows us to compete on a global level with the likes of China, India and the US.

What I am quite unclear on is our current policy on EU immigrants that are not working...

 

[brain_stew]

Yes some immigration benefits the country a great deal. But a complete open-door policy does have its negatives -

Obviously, but this isn't in anyway relevant, because we do not, nor never have had, an open door immigration policy.

Any recent significant study into the subject have always shown a net positive to the economy and as long as that remains the same then immigration is benefiting our economy and society not damaging it.

Our NHS would have collapsed years ago if not for foreign workers and millions of unskilled lower paid vacancies would not be fulfilled as they are now. Most legitimate immigrants take up the jobs that British workers either can't do or won't do.

I don't want to leave the EU, quite the opposite. I beleive in our strength in unity. It's the only thing that allows us to compete on a global level with the likes of China, India and the US.

What I am quite unclear on is our current policy on EU immigrants that are not working...

Like the 100s of thousands of Britains that have moved to Spain after retirement? Why don't we ever hear about them "wrecking" Spain's economy?

 

[MarshMellow96]

free movement of workers is essential to the EU's existence as an economic union, if you wanted to get rid of that, or even limit it, then you'd have to leave the EU, and that's a different argument entirely.

Ok so, aren't the figures something like 5 million British people working in the EU outside of the UK and 1.2 million people working in UK from the EU, mostly eastern Europeans?

So lets say we leave the EU, would they go so far as to 'kick' those ex-EU Brits out of the countries they were residing in?



It would be interesting to see if people welcomed the policy of '1.2 out 5 in', that's for sure :lol

 

[jamieson87]

Obviously, but this isn't in anyway relevant, because we do not, nor never have had, an open door immigration policy.

Any recent significant study into the subject have always shown a net positive to the economy and as long as that remains the same then immigration is benefiting our economy and society not damaging it.

Our NHS would have collapsed years ago if not for foreign workers and millions of unskilled lower paid vacancies would not be fulfilled as they are now. Most legitimate immigrants take up the jobs that British workers either can't do or won't do.




Like the 100s of thousands of Britains that have moved to Spain after retirement? Why don't we ever hear about them "wrecking" Spain's economy?

Quite the opposite, the British expats that buoyed Spains economy by buying and building property. It's partly due to the downturn in this that has led to Spains credit status being downgraded.

And I said I was unclear on the policy. What benefits are unemployed EU migrants eligible to claim in the UK?