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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage
- Thread starter Chinner
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killer_clank
Member
freethought
Member
Meadows said:
A stark contrast to the rainbow of diversity they present in reality.
MarshMellow96
Member
Plase...Halp...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...ure?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
(Well aware it's from the Guardian allegiances allegiances etc...)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...ure?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
(Well aware it's from the Guardian allegiances allegiances etc...)
Mama Robotnik
Member
MarshMellow96 said:
This is the shit I'm scared of. Scratch past the modern front the Tories are using as their image, and the old party is still there.
We're... we're fucked, aren't we?
Dabookerman
Member
Mama Robotnik said:
We are.
JonathanEx
Member
How did I miss last week's Made in Taiwan?!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8641797.stm
I think this is my favourite of the three.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8641797.stm
I think this is my favourite of the three.
MarshMellow96
Member
Shanadeus said:
Nonetheless, I personally don't want someone who thinks homosexuals are demons in a position of power.
Or perhaps I should say - for those of you who will call me out on others' views - someone in power who will actively discriminate against homosexuals.
Oh god it's the Scott Orson Card debacle all over again :lol
Serious question UK gafers:
Forgetting Brown's actual record for a moment, is the outrage about "Bigotgate"
a) Because he said a mean thing about an old lady?
b) He showed stupidity in not realizing his mic was on?
c) Pure GOTCHA?
Because I watched the events on TV and was shocked to discover that in private, Brown is actually a human being who resents bigotry.
The old lady was exhibiting classic old-lady racism. And in fact, Brown tried to divert the topic to stop her embarrassing him and her.
Forgetting Brown's actual record for a moment, is the outrage about "Bigotgate"
a) Because he said a mean thing about an old lady?
b) He showed stupidity in not realizing his mic was on?
c) Pure GOTCHA?
Because I watched the events on TV and was shocked to discover that in private, Brown is actually a human being who resents bigotry.
The old lady was exhibiting classic old-lady racism. And in fact, Brown tried to divert the topic to stop her embarrassing him and her.
electroshockwave
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
A, B and the fact that she was a Labour voter and then it was blown up by the media.
blazinglord
Member
The outrage is D), the hypocrisy of Labour and Gordon 'British-jobs-for-British-people' Brown being 'tough' on immigration to stop their core voters from staying at home or voting BNP, while privately thinking differently.OuterWorldVoice said:
I don't want to rehash the row about the bigotgate, but to be honest, the old lady didn't sound bigoted to me. She was clearly just an inarticulate working class woman in an area with high unemployment and understandable concerns about jobs going to Eastern Europeans. She was well within her right to ask about it.
electroshockwave said:
Don't get me wrong, Brown has fucked up on ACTUAL issues enough to deserve the boot, but on the substance of this story, it's like finding out that your pol is secretly sensitive, having run on a platform of arrogance.
Also, DON'T VOTE TORY. They are literally just in business to support Britain's tiny elite and everything else they do is a sham copy of New Labor's old marketing campaign. It would be like buying Pepsi because they were out of Coke, even though they stock delicious cane-sugar Jones.
Anyone who lived through the Thatcher and Major years remembers how unpleasant things got for the middle and working class.
Vote LibDem. Or SNP. Or Plaid Cymru.
Dark Machine
Member
BBC's handy dandy guide to the Paper's backing:
Daily Express - undeclared, but supportive of the Tories
Sunday Express - Conservatives
Financial Times - undeclared, but critical of Labour
Guardian - Lib Dems
Independent - undeclared
Independent on Sunday - undeclared
Daily Mail - Officially undeclared, but highly critical of Labour
Mail on Sunday - Conservatives
Daily Mirror - Labour
Sunday Mirror - Labour
News of the World - Conservatives
Observer - Lib Dems
People - says it favours a coalition
Daily Star - undeclared
The Sun - Conservatives
Daily Telegraph - Undeclared, but supportive of the Tories
Sunday Telegraph - Conservatives
The Times - Conservatives
Sunday Times - Conservatives
Daily Express - undeclared, but supportive of the Tories
Sunday Express - Conservatives
Financial Times - undeclared, but critical of Labour
Guardian - Lib Dems
Independent - undeclared
Independent on Sunday - undeclared
Daily Mail - Officially undeclared, but highly critical of Labour
Mail on Sunday - Conservatives
Daily Mirror - Labour
Sunday Mirror - Labour
News of the World - Conservatives
Observer - Lib Dems
People - says it favours a coalition
Daily Star - undeclared
The Sun - Conservatives
Daily Telegraph - Undeclared, but supportive of the Tories
Sunday Telegraph - Conservatives
The Times - Conservatives
Sunday Times - Conservatives
OuterWorldVoice said:
The people voting for Labour seem to want anyone but the Cons to win.
The same goes for the Lib Dem voters.
(This is impossible) But I just wish Labour would step out of the race and tell everyone "We fucked up, we don't deserve your votes. But please don't destroy yourselves by letting the cons in. Vote Lib Dems, see you in 5 years"
blazinglord
Member
Inflation:Veidt said:
1997 - 1.9%
2010 - 3.0%
Government borrowing:
1997 - £27bn
2010 - £178bn
National debt:
1996/97 - £347bn
2009/10 - £799bn
Growth:
1997 - +3.3%
2010 - -5.0%
Gary Whitta
Member
I am with OWV on this one, don't vote for the Tories unless you live in a mansion. Cameron is nothing but a telegenic puppet who underneath is old guard jobs for the boys establishment through and through. Not to mention his unholy alliance with Murdoch.
Dark Machine
Member
blazinglord said:
Misleading figures, particularly due to the borrowing needed to stave off depression during the Global Financial Crisis. And the fact that the Torys had had to save like mad after Black Wednesday in the earlly 90s.
Also NHS Waiting Times:
1997: 18 months
2010: 18 weeks
*Two-fingers* Stuff the Tory toffs.
MarshMellow96 said:
She's the candidate for my technically former constituency (cos of uni). The seat is currently held by a lib dem, but anecdotal evidence from my time there suggested she was going to do pretty well. The seat has been pretty close since the lib dem MP got in in '97, though i don't really now how the debates have affected the constituency.
blazinglord
Member
I was just illustrating that painful medicine of the Thatcher and Major years allowed the economic prosperity which aided Labour's spending spree for the past 13 years. Don't get me wrong, I think for every single election since 1997, Labour was right to win. If I was old enough at the time of the previous three elections, I too would have voted Labour. But this time, I think there is a real choice here about which direction the country should go - even more state intervention or start rolling back the state and decentralise power. Personally, I'm opting for the latter, but I respect everyone else's voting choice - it is a collective decision after all.Dark Machine said:
Depends how you're looking at it, from the voters or media's perspective.OuterWorldVoice said:
From the voters perspective, it's more likely a combination of a) and d) (life long labour supporter). I think most people realise though that we all talk about things behind each others backs and we interpret things differently. Brown didn't like and didn't feel comfortable with his encounter with Duffy, what's wrong with that?
Media perspective, it's basically c). Don't forget that the majority of the press is right wing, and it was Sky (Murdoch owned) who captured this. They're always on the lookout for good bashing material. Secondly, as shown as the Daily Mail, some places are trying to spin it as immigration is the big nasty thing we're not allowed to talk about like racism.
Meadows said:
I think it's less than that, as UNS overvalues the number of Labour seats and doesn't take into account the results of Ashcroft money having been pilled into key marginals for the last few years.
blazinglord
Member
I think you only need to look at France to see the impact of unchecked trade unions holding the country to ransom. It's telling that Labour has done nothing to reverse the tough union laws in this country, despite the party being funded by them. The free market approach of Thatcher/Major allowed the import of cheap consumer goods, and boom in the tech and service industry - which let us not forget contributes to 76% of the UK economy. I'm not denying that Thatcher's reforms were painful for some, but it was in the long-term interest of the country and we are all better off for it. Well, we were before the global recession.Sir Fragula said:
I know, great isn't it?Empty said:
blazinglord said:I think you only need to look at France to see the impact of unchecked trade unions holding the country to ransom. It's telling that Labour has done nothing to reverse the tough union laws in this country, despite the party being funded by them. The free market approach of Thatcher/Major allowed the import of cheap consumer goods, and boom in the tech and service industry - which let us not forget contributes to 76% of the UK economy. I'm not denying that Thatcher's reforms were painful for some, but it was in the long-term interest of the country and we are all better off for it. Well, we were before the global recession.
I know, great isn't it?
The UK has relatively soft, weak Unions. Thanks to Thatcher. This should be a good situation for a Conservative who values balance and resents immigration. Without unions holding a moderate bulwark, the UK would have significantly more foreign workers than it already does.
You want to have your cake and eat it. An influx of cheap non-unionized workers would be a fantastic boon for UK manufacturing and industry and a catastrophe for its working class citizens and the consumption-based economy.
Not to mention that it will speed proper EU integration like nothing else before it.
blazinglord
Member
It's wrong to say that the Conservatives 'resents immigration'. Not at all, it just proposes policy of controlled immigration. Electorally immigration is an important issue and all the parties are responding to this issue, except for the Liberal Democrats who propose an amnesty for illegal immigrants. Interestingly, this policy is not supported by a majority of Liberal Democrat supporters - 57% of people intending to vote for the LDems do not support their amnesty policy! Hardly a ringing endorsement.OuterWorldVoice said:
Personally I like weak unions - as do much of the electorate pissed off by constant threats of Royal Mail, National Rail and BA strikes. More EU integration is not supported by the majority of the electorate either - why do you think the LDems and Labour didn't hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty? If they had, they would have lost it.
French labour productivity is nearly 20% higher than the UK with a higher QoL too.blazinglord said:
Given that trade policy is and was almost entirely the responsibility of the EU I don't see how you could attribute that to the witch.
So you think that the digital economy *wasn't* severely impeded by the privatisation of BT?
Well, clearly it wasn't. I'm struggling to find a single privatised industry that I'd hold up as vindication for Thatcherism.
This is one of my biggest fears about a Conservative goverment. The Tories have been after the BBC for years; Thatcher even went so far to replace the entire board with die hard Tories and I am really worried that they will castrate arguably the only impartial media organisation in the country.Dr Zhivago said:I'm now expecting a repeat of 1992. The prospect of genuine change is replaced with a Tory government with a tiny majority, who will nevertheless claim a 'mandate' to do loads of shit, like castrate the BBC.
Dark Machine
Member
blazinglord said:
You like them weak until the bosses f**k you over. Also the France example mentioned earlier, 20% more productivity per head despite having 35 hour weeks.
More EU integration is an inevitability, it is going to happen, or we will quite literally be utterly screwed on the world stage, as argued and explained earlier in this thread. You want out of the EU? Deal with the 3million more unemployed you'll get here. You want to ally with 'nutters' like Cameron has? Then deal with never being able to change anything within the EU because you have no voice and everyone else thinks you're a joke. And trust me, all of moderate Euro politicians think Cameron is a joke.
We despair because Cameron is selling political snake oil, and the public are buying it because the Right press tell them to. Conservatives are for the few and the wealthy, and that has not changed now. Unlike you I do not look forward to the rich getting richer and the poor much poorer, or the destruction of public services with more privitisation, or the demise of the BBC in favour of Murdoch, or having policy decided by some wacky b**ch who believes praying can 'cure' homosexuality.
Gary Whitta
Member
Anyone know what the best bet for as-it-happens news coverage on election day will be here in the US? Is BBC America doing anything?
Subliminal
Member
Gary Whitta said:
BBC News Website/ABC might have something (They did the UK's US Election coverage)/This thread
blazinglord
Member
I was alluding to the strikes. It seems everytime I visit France, there is some kind of national strike going on.Sir Fragula said:
I'm talking about the process of deregulation and privatisation started by Thatcher and continued by Labour.
Are you saying that you don't think the digital economy was not benefited by competition and that the digital economy prior to BT's privatisation was roaring and unparalleled in the Western world?
I'm struggling to think of a single privatised industry that was better run when it was state-owned. Privatisation brought increased efficiency, less bureaucracy and generally improved services.
blazinglord
Member
I'm sorry but under which party has the gap between the rich and the poor grown bigger than any time since the second world war? Or which party is it that wants to increase the National Insurance tax that will hit the lowest paid?Dark Machine said:
But yeah you're right, I'm not overly concerned with the gap between the rich and poor. Like the dark lord himself, I'm 'intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich'. None of the three parties want to put a stop to wealth creation or start a policy of collectivism. I'd suggest you vote for the Communist or Socialist party of the UK if you're that way inclined.
I don't think fair to take the views of one MP and on the hoof suggest that she is going to be making national policy.
I leached those statistics off the wonderfully impartial BBC website actually.Sage00 said:
Hey, we live in a democracy! Jas0nuk and I are perfectly entitled to hold whatever views we like. Personally, I'm more predisposed to classical liberalism.Chinner said:
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