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[Deleted member 231381]

Have we ever seen such a rapid collapse in a party's level of support in an area? To go from owning almost all the Scottish seats to maybe one if they are lucky is unbelievable, and makes the lib dem collapse in 2015 look tiny in comparison.

Canada's Progressive Conservatives. 169 seats of 295 nationally in 1988 to 2 seats nationally in the following 1993 election. Disbanded after the 2000 election.

Makes Scottish Labour look healthy!

 

[CCS]

Rumours (although only rumours) of a Clive Lewis led coup brewing, believe they have have sufficient support from the left of the party. Interesting...

 

[FlammableD]

Rumours (although only rumours) of a Clive Lewis led coup brewing, believe they have have sufficient support from the left of the party. Interesting...

I mean now is definitely a "better" time for a coup than the last time they tried, post Corbyn flipping Labour on Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Jennifer Williams was the person who reported UNITE was going to turn on Corbyn in the Smith-Corbyn contest, which... promptly failed to happen.

I have absolutely no doubt Lewis is putting out tendrils (it seems... kinda obvious), but this is not a source I'd take that from.

 

[PJV3]

Please happen. I think Corbyn would lose this time, even better if he stood aside.

 

[CCS]

Jennifer Williams was the person who reported UNITE was going to turn on Corbyn in the Smith-Corbyn contest, which... promptly failed to happen.

I have absolutely no doubt Lewis is putting out tendrils (it seems... kinda obvious), but this is not a source I'd take that from.

Yeah, just thought I'd post it because I heard from a friend in Westminster that he's apparently putting out feelers so it seems like a fun thing to discuss.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yeah, just thought I'd post it because I heard from a friend in Westminster that he's apparently putting out feelers so it seems like a fun thing to discuss.

You graduated like 3 years after me? Even for Oxford, one of your friends is a bloody fast mover! Took me like 2 years to get even SPAD-level insiders.

 

[CCS]

You graduated like 3 years after me? Even for Oxford, one of your friends is a bloody fast mover! Took me like 2 years to get even SPAD-level insiders.

Hahahaha he's not exactly top-tier by any means, but he graduated the year before me and he's very nosy

 

[Xun]

I can get behind a Clive Lewis Labour, most definitely.

Hopefully Corbyn stands aside.

 

[sasliquid]

I voted Corbyn last time, I'd definetly vote Lewis.

Most of my chums were staunchly pro corbyn now we're all pretty luke warm on him

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I was pretty pro-Corbyn at first, but his mild and vague stance on brexit, and his general lack of feistiness has put me off him to a large degree.

 

[Jezbollah]

Corbyn actually had his strongest PMQs to date with his leaked text messages about Surrey County Council and the 15% Council Tax rise.. until a few minutes after and SCC released a statement saying that they and they alone came to their final decision without any Government assistance..

I've seen conflicting messages about Clive Lewis. I have no doubt he would be a better leader than Corbyn, but also have seen that he "doesnt want to be the next Owen Smith"..

 

[Number45]

You can understand people not wanting to challenge with the numbers he's had for support in recent contests. Unless they really get an inclination that they have a chance to win when it goes to the vote they're basically gambling their chances of leading the party in the future aren't they?

The only decent thing would be for Corbyn to move aside, but something tells me that won't happen.

 

[Stead Fast]

See, I'd be more than inclined to vote for Lewis ahead of Corbyn now, at this point I'm tired of the man and his face of Labour. My only problem with it is, that would either be a coup, or Corbyn stepping aside, which would create even more of a rift with the party's members and leaders.

While this isn't a grand problem for the non Labour members of the UK, it does once again weaken any real resolve we've got. Lewis, or even Corbyn could rally a good go at the next election to be sure (though the latter would need a lot of stars to align), but we risk being even more limp than we have been at one of the most dangerous times if we become a party this just constantly reshuffling.

If Lewis were to go ahead, it would only have less of a negative impact if he did so with Corbyn stepping aside, anything else would be another step back again.

 

[CyclopsRock]

See, I'd be more than inclined to vote for Lewis ahead of Corbyn now, at this point I'm tired of the man and his face of Labour. My only problem with it is, that would either be a coup, or Corbyn stepping aside, which would create even more of a rift with the party's members and leaders.

While this isn't a grand problem for the non Labour members of the UK, it does once again weaken any real resolve we've got. Lewis, or even Corbyn could rally a good go at the next election to be sure (though the latter would need a lot of stars to align), but we risk being even more limp than we have been at one of the most dangerous times if we become a party this just constantly reshuffling.

If Lewis were to go ahead, it would only have less of a negative impact if he did so with Corbyn stepping aside, anything else would be another step back again.

As far as I could see, the best course for Labour's best interests would be a Fergie-style crowning of Lewis by Corbyn, with that old fuck staying on as some Shadow Minister for Vegetarians and Palestine or something. They can wheel him out when they need him and stuff him back in his coffin when they don't. Lewis isn't exactly a Blairite and I think that most Corbyn supporters - especially those burnt by his Brexit stance - could get behind Lewis in terms of his policy positions (whatever the fuck they are, but he's in Corbyn's cabinet so he must be a bit of a loon). That'd be better than a coup or Corbyn outright washing his hands of the whole mess, I think.

 

[PJV3]

See, I'd be more than inclined to vote for Lewis ahead of Corbyn now, at this point I'm tired of the man and his face of Labour. My only problem with it is, that would either be a coup, or Corbyn stepping aside, which would create even more of a rift with the party's members and leaders.

While this isn't a grand problem for the non Labour members of the UK, it does once again weaken any real resolve we've got. Lewis, or even Corbyn could rally a good go at the next election to be sure (though the latter would need a lot of stars to align), but we risk being even more limp than we have been at one of the most dangerous times if we become a party this just constantly reshuffling.

If Lewis were to go ahead, it would only have less of a negative impact if he did so with Corbyn stepping aside, anything else would be another step back again.

I've seen rumours flying around of Corbyn naming a date that he would go, I would be more than happy with that.

 

[Stead Fast]

As far as I could see, the best course for Labour's best interests would be a Fergie-style crowning of Lewis by Corbyn, with that old fuck staying on as some Shadow Minister for Vegetarians and Palestine or something. They can wheel him out when they need him and stuff him back in his coffin when they don't. Lewis isn't exactly a Blairite and I think that most Corbyn supporters - especially those burnt by his Brexit stance - could get behind Lewis in terms of his policy positions (whatever the fuck they are, but he's in Corbyn's cabinet so he must be a bit of a loon). That'd be better than a coup or Corbyn outright washing his hands of the whole mess, I think.

Agreed, anything less than Corbyn's blessings wouldn't chime well enough with the Labour party members, members Lewis would need a whole lot over the next three years of Brexit leading to the election. Corbyn woke a lot of younger people into the party, the way a Blairite couldn't, but he certainly isn't the one to lead them.

Edit:

I've seen rumours flying around of Corbyn naming a date that he would go, I would be more than happy with that.

This, I can really get behind.

 

[Uzzy]

Corbyn actually had his strongest PMQs to date with his leaked text messages about Surrey County Council and the 15% Council Tax rise.. until a few minutes after and SCC released a statement saying that they and they alone came to their final decision without any Government assistance..

I've seen conflicting messages about Clive Lewis. I have no doubt he would be a better leader than Corbyn, but also have seen that he "doesnt want to be the next Owen Smith"..

I don't know, it looks like Corbyn got something with his attack today. From the info I've seen it looks like a bit of a scandal. Certainly made May squirm at the dispatch box.

Just a shame that it's unlikely to be on the front pages tomorrow!

 

[Stead Fast]

I don't know, it looks like Corbyn got something with his attack today. From the info I've seen it looks like a bit of a scandal. Certainly made May squirm at the dispatch box.

Just a shame that it's unlikely to be on the front pages tomorrow!

The backlash over twitter and the likes seems to suggest it touched a nerve, whether the Surrey Council came to the decision on their own or it is a part of a sweetheart deal.

What is important now is Labour needs to rip into them on this, at every turn. If it's nothing, then why was the whole situation so cryptic to begin with? If it is what was accused by Corbyn, its finally a springboard his party can use to start highlighting the Tory government has no real ambition on helping the more impoverished councils. He did really well in PQT, it's just whether enough people pick up on it across social media that it becomes a headache.

If Jeremy Hunt's reaction was anything to go by, there is more to this than what the Council said.

 

[Jezbollah]

The thing is, it couldn't have come at a worse time for Labour. This Commons vote, and the potential rebellion by a number of Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet (and subsequent resignations - if they follow "tradition") is far more likely to lead the news over the Surrey Council story.

This is going to get buried. I'm sure of it.

 

[Stead Fast]

The thing is, it couldn't have come at a worse time for Labour. This Commons vote, and the potential rebellion by a number of Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet (and subsequent resignations - if they follow "tradition") is far more likely to lead the news over the Surrey Council story.

This is going to get buried. I'm sure of it.

Sadly, this is also true. It makes a nice little microcosm of Labour's situation in Parliament these past couple of years.

 

[Maledict]

I'll be honest, it could have had traction if he was more capable. It was an honest to god scoop - evidence of corruption at the highest levels, unfairly favouring some areas over others. But he doesn't have the nounce to turn it into an attack line. You want fiery passion and condemnation to make the headlines - not soppily talking about a John Carre novel.

 

[Jezbollah]

Repost from the Brexit thread:

MPs have voted in favour of the Article 50 bill at it's final stage by 494 votes to 122, a majority of 372.

Shadow Business Secretary Clive Lewis has resigned from the Shadow Cabinet for voting against the Labour whip.

 

[Stead Fast]

Repost from the Brexit thread:

MPs have voted in favour of the Article 50 bill at it's final stage by 494 votes to 122, a majority of 372.

Shadow Business Secretary Clive Lewis has resigned from the Shadow Cabinet for voting against the Labour whip.

Well, he's fanning that flame pretty strong, it seems.

 

[Beefy]

@PolhomeEditor

In Strangers bar tonight, David Davis tried to give Diane Abbott a kiss. She recoiled and told him to fuck off. He walked off laughing.

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/829459417884131329

Sexual harrassment much?

 

[Protome]

I feel like it's a terrible time to make a leadership bid for anyone in Labour. The Article 50 vote is going to cause them to bleed support to near Lib dem post coalition amounts, nobody wants to be in charge of that.

 

[phisheep]

Well, it's all down to the dear old House of Lords now. I'm looking forward at least to some interesting and substantial debate for a change.

 

[Uzzy]

Well, it's all down to the dear old House of Lords now. I'm looking forward at least to some interesting and substantial debate for a change.

Swiftly followed by the Tories moving to abolish the House of Lords. Now that's something I'd never thought I'd say.

 

[Jezbollah]

Swiftly followed by the Tories moving to abolish the House of Lords. Now that's something I'd never thought I'd say.

If it doesn't pass the Lords, I smell an early Election..

 

[Auctopus]

Corbyn calling BBC fake news felt like your dad saying "sick" or "radical".

 

[CyclopsRock]

Corbyn calling BBC fake news felt like your dad saying "sick" or "radical".

Sexy and cool?

 

[phisheep]

If it doesn't pass the Lords, I smell an early Election..

Yep. And as I think I mentioned before, this would be a good result for the Conservatives - so it would not surprise me if an Lords defeat gets engineered in exchange for *not* having a manifesto commitment on abolition so that the Salisbury convention would not apply.

 

[Jezbollah]

So it looks like Conservative MP James Duddridge has tabled a motion of no confidence in speaker John Bercow.

Duddridge is my former MP. He's a bit of a bellend.

 

[Uzzy]

So it looks like Conservative MP James Duddridge has tabled a motion of no confidence in speaker John Bercow.

Duddridge is my former MP. He's a bit of a bellend.

It's fine, Corbyn will declare his support for Bercow and his desire to keep him on as speaker right after the motion passes with Labour's support.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Corbyn calling BBC fake news felt like your dad saying "sick" or "radical".

...he what?

 

[War Peaceman]

A BBC presenter mentioned the rumour that Corbyn had privately agreed a resignation date and he called it fake news. This was whilst they were talking on the subject of fake news. It isn't that weird of a thing for him to do. He's absolutely terrible, but not for this.

 

[Jackpot]

I don't think they'd want to set a trend of regularly ditching Speakers.

...he what?

It was over the rumored resignation date.

 

[blazinglord]

Swiftly followed by the Tories moving to abolish the House of Lords. Now that's something I'd never thought I'd say.

I reckon Theresa May will just appoint a whole load of Conservative peers to give the Conservatives a majority in the House of Lords. I vaguely recall David Cameron threatening to do this.

 

[Stead Fast]

A BBC presenter mentioned the rumour that Corbyn had privately agreed a resignation date and he called it fake news. This was whilst they were talking on the subject of fake news. It isn't that weird of a thing for him to do. He's absolutely terrible, but not for this.

Whatever happened to just saying, "No/not true/no, that's false/that's a lie/Dunno where you got that"?

Why does all controversial statements have to be encompassed under this phrase? For one it sounds like a panic alarm that you just trigger in a politician, not so much a response, but a default when presented with journalism that opposes you in any shape, way or form.

By the way, I don't imply that denoucing such journalism whilst you try and spin a better message isn't the standard practice for politicans - it's age old, but whenever someone calls this term out like Corbyn did, it's just so blatant.

 

[Jezbollah]

Source: Yougov

 

[*Splinter]

I don't know much about Farron, but that unfavourability rate is surprisingly high. What do people not like about him?

 

[Mr. Sam]

He's just a bit of a wet blanket, I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I don't know much about Farron, but that unfavourability rate is surprisingly high. What do people not like about him?

He's pro-Remain. Even most Remainers these days accept Brexit must happen in some form, and it is the predominant issue, so that's reflected in the favourability.

 

[Stead Fast]

He's pro-Remain. Even most Remainers these days accept Brexit must happen in some form, and it is the predominant issue, so that's reflected in the favourability.

Also, the stigma from being leader of a party largely ridiculed over the coalition probably isn't going to go away for a good few more years, if ever.

 

[Number45]

He's pro-Remain. Even most Remainers these days accept Brexit must happen in some form, and it is the predominant issue, so that's reflected in the favourability.

He needed to shift from "we want a new referendum" to "we'll do absolutely everything we can to ensure a deal that's good for the people that really need it". Was legitimately sad when I read his piece last week, even though I admire him for sticking to his guns.

 

[Maledict]

He needed to shift from "we want a new referendum" to "we'll do absolutely everything we can to ensure a deal that's good for the people that really need it". Was legitimately sad when I read his piece last week, even though I admire him for sticking to his guns.

There's not enough space there because that's basically labours position, badly articulated as it is. By choosing to go hard on remain, it opens up the possibility of taking a number of seats from labour and the tories in the metropolitan areas where a 'better brexit' stance wouldn't.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

I don't know much about Farron, but that unfavourability rate is surprisingly high. What do people not like about him?

I honestly think his poor favourability ratings come courtesy of the Mail / Express / Sun. Most voters don't know him, but lots of the unfavourables are a reflex.

 

[CyclopsRock]

There's not enough space there because that's basically labours position, badly articulated as it is. By choosing to go hard on remain, it opens up the possibility of taking a number of seats from labour and the tories in the metropolitan areas where a 'better brexit' stance wouldn't.

Tbf isn't "getting a good deal" basically everyone's position? I mean, who's advocating for the opposite?

 

[War Peaceman]

Unfavourables/favourables only really matter for established figures When people barely know the person those could easily change in either direction. For May and Corbyn, they matter, for others not really.

There's barely any point asking about Keir Starmer for example.

 

[Maledict]

Tbf isn't "getting a good deal" basically everyone's position? I mean, who's advocating for the opposite?

Meh, you know what I mean. The three nation parties policies currently are:

Tories: try to get a deal, but walk if necessary.
Labour: Brexit needs to happen, get a good deal
Lib dems: try to get a deal, hope to reverse with another referendum at the end

They each camp out their own territory, and labour is left stuck in the middle satisfying neither those who want out nor those who want in. Whether there are enough people supporting that position to get them into government seems very doubtful.

(The difference between UKIP and the tories current policy on Europe seems practically negligence now. The tories have, as a whole, become UKIP when it comes to the EU question. Except poor Ken of course).