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[War Peaceman]

There's plenty of people mocking the guardian here. It just so happens that you made a silly comparison, Nicktendo.

Now if you'd said the same thing but the Mirror instead of the guardian then nobody would have argued with you.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There's plenty of people mocking the guardian here. It just so happens that you made a silly comparison, Nicktendo.

Now if you'd said the same thing but the Mirror instead of the guardian then nobody would have argued with you.

The Mirror's more comparable to the Sun, so I'd still argue that one. Honestly the Mail is off in a league of its own.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Except some people actually read the Sun lolol

 

[War Peaceman]

Yup never actually seen a copy of the Mirror out in the wild!

 

[dapperbandit]

Last time I saw a copy of the Mirror the headline was "WHY DID THEY HAVE TO DIE" and I was immediately repelled

 

[twobear]

They don't sell the Mirror in your local newsagent?

 

[CyclopsRock]

I only time I see any newspaper headlines these days is in the queue in Waitrose at lunchtime, and most of them are Hello! Magazine.

Apparantly they actually sell 1m copies a day of the Mirror, but fuck knows who's buying them.

 

[Jackpot]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-expenses-scandal-are-ennobled-10475640.html

So one of the new Tory peers is the MP who used his expenses to pay for his moat to be cleaned. Is there anything that perfectly encapsulates just how corrupt the system is? If Cameron had done this during the expenses scandal he would have been forced to resign.

 

[Maledict]

I got quite grumpy when I read an article in the Mail about how the majority of the new Lords are a waste of space (which I agree with), and then they listed Lynne Featherstone as worthless because she performend poorly at the dispatch box.

I mean, lets forget the actual legislative stuff she accomplished - she drive gay marriage through goverment despite it not being in the manfiesto aggreement. She won plaudits from all parties, and I remember on election night when she lost there was a general agreement that parliament had lost someone good and committed.

But no, she was bad at the dispatch box so she's useless!

 

[Huw_Dawson]

She's cool, a major loss for the HoC to be sure.

Had a great new members meeting in Liverpool last night for the LDs. It's rough having so few elected officials bouncing about at the moment but it is giving us a lot of time to reflect.

 

[CyclopsRock]

She's cool, a major loss for the HoC to be sure.

Had a great new members meeting in Liverpool last night for the LDs. It's rough having so few elected officials bouncing about at the moment but it is giving us a lot of time to reflect.

I was tempted to join the Tories back in 2012 or so, mainly because a) I lived in Islington and the chairman of my local Tory association was fucking Bojo, and b) I knew this gorgeous redhead who was a member and it really hit home to me how much I fancy the pants off of basically anyone with a posh accent.

In the end I didn't and I'm pretty glad I didn't tbh. They do too much stuff I disagree with and I've got too much stuff to do to go mucking around with those badger fuckers.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

• Remain a member of the European Union
• Leave the European Union

So this will be the likely question now.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Leave will lose, and it will be a more comprehensive loss than expected. My prediction.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Leave will lose, and it will be a more comprehensive loss than expected. My prediction.

That is my feeling too.
I've always said it's easy to shout no no no when the consequences of doing so are almost meaningless. Quite a different matter when push comes to shove.

Nevertheless the in campaign has to get its head out of their collective arses. Meaningful 'renegotiation' is not going to happen, the EU has bigger fish to fry.
There are plenty of other honest arguments to be made for the in camp and it's time they got the deserved screen time.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Businesses will overwhelmingly swing behind stay, so you can bet they'll get their airing.

 

[Jezbollah]

So this will be the likely question now.

Indeed it is, sir.

 

[Hellers]

Are the government campaigning in or out?

 

[anonymous_abc]

Are the government campaigning in or out?

officially waiting for the renegotiation.

However to quote the Guardian

Cameron has clearly nailed his colours to the yes mast, before even a whisper of a concession from his European partners

 

[Maledict]

Yep, and Osbourne is even more against leaving the EU than Cameron. Apparently thinks it insane to even contemplating leaving an international institution in the modern world, and was against the referendum in the first place.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

officially waiting for the renegotiation.

However to quote the Guardian

Cameron has clearly nailed his colours to the yes mast, before even a whisper of a concession from his European partners

Seems a little unwise to admit that before going into a negotiation. Surely it only weakens his position?

 

[kitch9]

Seems a little unwise to admit that before going into a negotiation. Surely it only weakens his position?

How? He's always said he's pro EU

 

[QuicheFontaine]

How? He's always said he's pro EU

Then the whole idea of this "renegotiation" is a farce. What's the point? The other countries will say "You want to stay in the EU as-is. Most of your electorate want to stay in the EU as-is. We don't need to sweeten the deal, you aren't going to leave".

Even if he's blatently pro-EU, he's going to come back from this negotiation with nothing, which isn't a great look.

 

[Xun]

Did anyone watch the Labour leader debate on Channel 4?

It's really amazing how much Kendall sounds like a female Blair.

 

[kitch9]

Then the whole idea of this "renegotiation" is a farce. What's the point? The other countries will say "You want to stay in the EU as-is. Most of your electorate want to stay in the EU as-is. We don't need to sweeten the deal, you aren't going to leave".

Even if he's blatently pro-EU, he's going to come back from this negotiation with nothing, which isn't a great look.

What makes you think most of the electorate is pro EU? Whilst I think we generally in favour of the idea are a lot want change from the status quo.

 

[twobear]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...g-snobbish-arrogant-emails-to-hillary-clinton

Marked as confidential, Blumenthal writes (pdf) that the popularity of the Liberal Democrats was cratering after the passage of a “draconian Cameron government” budget.

“On economic policy, the UK is no partner and no bridge to Europe,” Blumenthal wrote.

He compared the manner of Nick Clegg, the former Lib Dem leader and deputy prime minister, with that of Cameron, saying Clegg had an “inbred arrogance (from no less a privileged background than Cameron, though seeming less snobbish because he went to Westminster instead of Eton).”

wew

 

[QuicheFontaine]

What makes you think most of the electorate is pro EU? Whilst I think we generally in favour of the idea are a lot want change from the status quo.

The polls. And you're right, most people are in favour of staying in a renegotiated EU. But take that option away and give people a simple stay or go, most people say stay. Cameron is just ensuring that these negotiations are completely fruitless by going into them with zero leverage. I honestly don't know what the point is.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Honestly, I still think the referendum itself is pointless. "Leave" has a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Was it really worth spending £26 million for the sole purpose of making Farage shut up?

...actually I'm suddenly sold on the referendum.

 

[Masquerader]

Anyone here keeping up with Northern Ireland's politicians (namely, the Unionist ones this time) embarrassing themselves again? I just love how they always go and whine to Cameron when they inevitably can't sort something out.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Honestly, I still think the referendum itself is pointless. "Leave" has a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Was it really worth spending £26 million for the sole purpose of making Farage shut up?

...actually I'm suddenly sold on the referendum.

£26 million? Isn't that exactly how much New Zealand have spent on their pick-a-flag-athon?

Strange coincidence

 

[Deleted member 231381]

£26 million? Isn't that exactly how much New Zealand have spent on their pick-a-flag-athon?

Strange coincidence

I may have crossed wires when remembering how much ours costs. Thinking about it, that seems very low.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The character assassination that UK politicians (and media) are engaging in with regards to Jeremy Corbyn is shameful:

https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492

 

[anonymous_abc]

The character assassination that UK politicians (and media) are engaging in with regards to Jeremy Corbyn is shameful:

https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492

Private Eye <3

 

[Jezbollah]

The character assassination that UK politicians (and media) are engaging in with regards to Jeremy Corbyn is shameful:

https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492

It's almost as if they're on a mission to galvanise the Corbyn vote isn't it?

 

[Hellers]

It's almost as if they're on a mission to galvanise the Corbyn vote isn't it?

Private Eye don`t really side with anyone. They`re an equal opportunities shamer.

 

[gerg]

So this will be the likely question now.

It would have been interesting to see the Scottish independence referendum run under a similarly-phrased question, rather than with "Yes" and "No" camps.

 

[Mindwipe]

Private Eye don`t really side with anyone. They`re an equal opportunities shamer.

I think he means the UK Media that PE are mocking, not PE themselves.

And yes, at this point coverage from the likes of the Guardian are so counter-productive you're wondering if it's genuine incompetence or that the majority of their editorial staff disagree with the editor imposed diktat on the supported candidate and are trying to undermine it at every turn.

Well, or Blair level ego and complete lack of self awareness. That's possible too.

 

[Kuros]

It would have been interesting to see the Scottish independence referendum run under a similarly-phrased question, rather than with "Yes" and "No" camps.

The election commission changed the independence question. It was originally going to be the SNP favoured "Do you agree that Scotland should be an Independent Nation?" Which was blatantly loaded to.

 

[Mindwipe]

The election commission changed the independence question. It was originally going to be the SNP favoured "Do you agree that Scotland should be an Independent Nation?" Which was blatantly loaded go.

It was sort of hilarious that the SNP honestly thought they'd get away with a question that would be given as a bad example in a GCSE statistics textbook.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Could have been worse
'Do you agree that Scotland should be a proud independent nation free of the westminster oppression by snobbish Etonians?'

 

[CyclopsRock]

Could have been worse
'Do you agree that Scotland should be a proud independent nation free of the westminster oppression by snobbish Etonians?'

"Och Aye"
"Get tae foock!"

 

[twobear]

The character assassination that UK politicians (and media) are engaging in with regards to Jeremy Corbyn is shameful:

https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492

Shameful but entirely predictable.

 

[f0rk]

The other half of the countries economists wrote to the FT today disputing Corbyn's definition of 'mainstream' in the last letter

 

[CyclopsRock]

So what do we think a Corbyn Labour leadership, should it happen, will mean for the SNP. Being left wing is far from their only appeal (people are also attracted to declining educational standards, for example) but they'll no longer be able to unchallenging claim they are a force for left wing lovliness anymore (in reality they aren't that left wing, but they've been effective at presenting the idea that they are). Furthermore Corbyn would be a sufficiently significant break from Labour of the last 20 years that some of the mass desertion may end.

On the other hand, Scottish Labour's newly elected leader is pretty centrist, leading us to the pretty unusual position wherein the Scottish Labour party might be to the right of the English one.

 

[Mindwipe]

So what do we think a Corbyn Labour leadership, should it happen, will mean for the SNP. Being left wing is far from their only appeal (people are also attracted to declining educational standards, for example) but they'll no longer be able to unchallenging claim they are a force for left wing lovliness anymore (in reality they aren't that left wing, but they've been effective at presenting the idea that they are). Furthermore Corbyn would be a sufficiently significant break from Labour of the last 20 years that some of the mass desertion may end.

On the other hand, Scottish Labour's newly elected leader is pretty centrist, leading us to the pretty unusual position wherein the Scottish Labour party might be to the right of the English one.

I think it would definitely help Labour in Scotland. But given the SNP would almost always prop a minority Labour government up over a Tory one, Scotland isn't actually where Labour needs to win any seats.

 

[Xun]

The character assassination that UK politicians (and media) are engaging in with regards to Jeremy Corbyn is shameful:

https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492

I can't say I'm surprised.

What a fucking joke.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Even as a chuckling LD watching this Corbyn fiasco from afar, I think the more biased press companies are acting idiotically towards him.

Their job is to bias their readers, though. If the Indie starts heavily misquoting Corbyn I'd be disappointed.

(The Indie quote on that page is more bad journalism than a deliberate misquote, I think - he is saying he thinks Labour should commit to something more radical like Clause IV, not Clause IV itself)

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Is Kay Burley moderating the debate?

 

[Maledict]

From my understanding Corbyn doesn't actually poll well in Scotland, and wouldn't improve their chances there at all.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Labour would be goosed if they elected Corbyn.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Sky debate is embarrassing. Burnham says something, moderator nods. Cooper says something, moderator nods. Kendall says something, moderator nods. Corbyn says something, moderator turns green, swells to twice the size, muscles bulging, points finger dramatically to the sky and yells OBJECTION!