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[phisheep]

Out of interest, mainly as it's an argument I've attempted to make but haven't been eloquent enough to get across, what do people think about this article, about how 1983 was more to do with the Falklands and the SDP split over anything else.

The article is trying to argue that 1983 wasn't because of Labour being too far left. That's a bit disingenuous, since "being too far left" (though not necessarily a policy issue, more to do with the largely local influence of Militant and the personal influence of Tony Benn) was a big cause of the SDP split in the first place.

Certainly the Falklands was very influential in terms of Conservative popularity - not just the personal popularity of Mrs Thatcher but the credibility of the government as a whole which had until then been somewhat shaky.

The big problem with Labour was its narrowing appeal to fewer and fewer industrial workers when the economy was moving away from heavy industry, and fewer and fewer office clerks displaced by computers.

 

[RedShift]

Michael Crick finds someone unexpected at a Corbyn rally

 

[anonymous_abc]

Michael Crick finds someone unexpected at a Corbyn rally

lol, that was surprisingly entertaining.

 

[Jezbollah]

Given that it was a public event, he should have just stayed there and said nothing.

 

[Uzzy]

Given that it was a public event, he should have just stayed there and said nothing.

Yep. Made more of a scene by storming off.

 

[Polari]

Have to wonder who's kid he is to get the job of press officer - he doesn't seem very good at handling the press.

 

[Jezbollah]

I wonder if he was instructed that if he was identified to get out of there and not say a word..

 

[Huw_Dawson]

1983 is an interesting beast. Gereld Kaufman described Labour's 1983 manifesto as the "longest suicide note in history".

It's not that Labour was too far left, it was that they had stopped listening to all common sense and simply attempted to campaign to the hard-left. The fact that they were for nuclear disarmament and against the Falkland War were two excellent international examples of this. If Labour hadn't benefitted from too few people believing the Alliance could win seats (and the 'Method' campaigning style had not yet been perfected so the Alliance was not targeting seats and campaigning optimally) then they might well have come far closer to electoral obliteration.

Also three days until Corbynocalypse. I cannot wait.

 

[Volotaire]

I wonder if he was instructed that if he was identified to get out of there and not say a word..

But why? It makes no sense. If another political party wants to find out more information on the competitors speech, style, body language or presentation style, I don't see how this would be non-logical. I'm not even sure why the press thought this was enough of a 'story' to divulge into. His reaction that makes it a story.

 

[Empty]

he looks pretty awkward. maybe he didn't want the social embarrassment of being loudly and publicly outed as a tory and then sitting for a few hours in a room full of corbyn supporters. he could get some abuse, annoying questioning. not really worth the hassle.

 

[Maledict]

Dianne Abbott will be in the shadow cabinet. Mother of gods.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Given that it was a public event, he should have just stayed there and said nothing.

I think it is a bit risky to do that at a political rally. You never know what nutters might be there. Imagine if someone attacked him based on his political affiliations. Once outed, best to leave because that guy was not going to leave him alone.

 

[Yen]

This is one of the most bizarre Northern Irish crises ever. After being unable to bring down/suspend the Assembly, DUP resign from NI Executive (or "stepped aside" as they call it), bar one who will act as Nightwatchwoman to ensure they still hold the role of First Minister. The UUP left a few weeks ago. Would be funny if Robinson's career ends like this.

So they haven't collapsed the executive and there's to be no early election. Self-exile.

 

[Volotaire]

Peter Robinson's stepped down.

 

[Yen]

And that the Assembly hasn't collapsed means that the Business Committee can continue investigating who it was that the £7m bribe was earmarked to. Regardless, both the US DOJ and NCA are investigating it.

National Crime Agency to lead inquiry into why Nama sold properties for £1.1bn to a US investment fund at a loss of £203m

 

[kharma45]

This is one of the most bizarre Northern Irish crises ever. After being unable to bring down/suspend the Assembly, DUP resign from NI Executive (or "stepped aside" as they call it), bar one who will act as Nightwatchwoman to ensure they still hold the role of First Minister. The UUP left a few weeks ago. Would be funny if Robinson's career ends like this.

So they haven't collapsed the executive and there's to be no early election. Self-exile.

I can't get my head round it. It's bizarre.

 

[pulsemyne]

I can't get my head round it. It's bizarre.

One of the rumours is that this whole situation is an excuse so that no one looks bad when having to implement up coming cuts. Nobody wants the poisoned chalice.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Even just a couple of months ago before the election would anybody in their wildest dreams have imagined that JC would become Labour leader? It's quite fascinating really.

 

[Masquerader]

This is one of the most bizarre Northern Irish crises ever. After being unable to bring down/suspend the Assembly, DUP resign from NI Executive (or "stepped aside" as they call it), bar one who will act as Nightwatchwoman to ensure they still hold the role of First Minister. The UUP left a few weeks ago. Would be funny if Robinson's career ends like this.

So they haven't collapsed the executive and there's to be no early election. Self-exile.

I fucking love it. How dumb it all is, I mean.

One of the rumours is that this whole situation is an excuse so that no one looks bad when having to implement up coming cuts. Nobody wants the poisoned chalice.

The DUP have been heavily pushing for them for a long time, now. They've gladly wanted the cuts, and i'd be surprised if that would be the reason they resigned.

And don't worry, Robinson and the DUP will be back soon, sadly. I love how they have basically been saying that the fate of Northern Ireland is in their hands.

If England takes control, does that mean we'll get equal marriage rights over here at last?

 

[operon]

I fucking love it. How dumb it all is, I mean.



The DUP have been heavily pushing for them for a long time, now. They've gladly wanted the cuts, and i'd be surprised if that would be the reason they resigned.

And don't worry, Robinson and the DUP will be back soon, sadly. I love how they have basically been saying that the fate of Northern Ireland is in their hands.

If England takes control, does that mean we'll get equal marriage rights over here at last?

I think Westminster will implement equal marriage rights here; the dup can blame then when it comes in.

 

[Yen]

If England takes control, does that mean we'll get equal marriage rights over here at last?

Ivan Lewis, Labour's Shadow Secretary of State, says if Direct Rule returns he/Labour would advocate for a referendum which is an awful idea considering Westminster could just implement it. It would be setting a bad precedent too.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Even just a couple of months ago before the election would anybody in their wildest dreams have imagined that JC would become Labour leader? It's quite fascinating really.

I can't wait to see what happens. They have time on their side, at least - no real chance of a snap election or rush to do anything really, so Corbyn has time to bed down and get allies. Then again, his opposition - which is a massive chunk of the PLP - have plenty of time to mount their counter-attack. Will they perform a formal putsch or fight a guerilla, resistance war? Eitherway, the Tories can sit a few steps above the melee and look like the only party capable of governing.

Actually, did anyone see Osborne's closing remark at the GQ Men of the Year awards? Something like "Anyway I have to go, I still have 3 Labour leadership election ballots to fill out!" I love GO.

Ivan Lewis, Labour's Shadow Secretary of State, says if Direct Rule returns he/Labour would advocate for a referendum which is an awful idea considering Westminster could just implement it. It would be setting a bad precedent too.

Yeah, that would be weird, effectively replacing the NI Assembly with a form of direct democracy. Not a bad experiment if extended beyond gay marriage, actually, but hardly one with a mandate.

 

[Par Score]

Khan wins the Labour London Mayoral selection, by a surprisingly large margin in each round. Diane Abbott a surprisingly strong third.

Pretty much confirms Corbyn walking it tomorrow, as Tessa Jowell was probably the most popular Blairite left in the party and was predicted to win this before Corbynmania kicked off.

Corbyn is going to have >50% in the first round at this rate.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Andy Burnham has claimed the most expenses in the past year apparently. Good to know he visited the Westminster bubble long enough to get his expense claims in.

We're just hours away from the result of the longest leadership election of all time. I don't know what's more entertaining, that Corbyn will win or that Burnham will finish 3rd for the second time running.

Edit: Khan vs Goldsmith will be interesting. I would imagine Khan will hoover up the inner boroughs while Goldsmith takes the outer ones, should be a decent match up.

Edit 2

Actually, did anyone see Osborne's closing remark at the GQ Men of the Year awards? Something like "Anyway I have to go, I still have 3 Labour leadership election ballots to fill out!" I love GO.

GO is the ultimate troll.

 

[ruttyboy]

If Corbyn does win, what actual control does that give him of Labour's policies?

Everyone is acting like he is Stalin and will just impose his evil Communist will on everything, surely there's more to it than that?

Will the 'moderates' in Labour have no say whatsoever, in the end, won't it be a compromise that may move Labour a bit left but still not lead to the formation of the UKSSR?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Khan will get steamrollered by Goldsmith if the tory ground game is up to snuff

Dunno how anyone can have any respect for him after he lied about the post-tube bombings blair meeting.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...f-77-meeting-is-at-odds-with-our-recollection

If Corbyn does win, what actual control does that give him of Labour's policies?

Everyone is acting like he is Stalin and will just impose his evil Communist will on everything, surely there's more to it than that?

Will the 'moderates' in Labour have no say whatsoever, in the end, won't it be a compromise that may move Labour a bit left but still not lead to the formation of the UKSSR?

They will either have a say or the party will tear itself apart. His foreign policy views make him unelectable without airbrushing. If they fall behind him and he agrees to moderate some of his less popular views he should do well, but a lot of people don't think that'll happen. I hope it does as I don't want an unopposed election in 2020

 

[Nicktendo86]

Labour are stunned by the amount Khan won apparently and thinks it is a preview of the massive victory Corbyn will have tomorrow.

This leaves the door open for Dianne Abbott to make the shadow cabinet. Lol.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Labour are stunned by the amount Khan won apparently and thinks it is a preview of the massive victory Corbyn will have tomorrow.

This leaves the door open for Dianne Abbott to make the shadow cabinet. Lol.

And for Khan when he loses the mayoral election

Bit worried about how lightweight the shadow cabinet could shape up to be. Wonder if Cruddas will be asked given what he's been saying recently

 

[Nicktendo86]

Taken from Tim shipman on Twitter:

@ShippersUnbound: Labour source texts: "Grim scenes at HQ. No cheer whatsoever for Sadiq Khan. Just shock and stunned disappointment at scale of victory"

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Labour Party constitution gives a weird amount of control to the Front Bench - which is one of the arguments in favour of a the slow guerrilla Campaign where some of the hostile elements get shadow cabinet positions and therefore some actual, rather than thereotical, power. Obviously, though, Corby is choosing the cabinet.

This will be genuinely fascinating. 2015's gonna be talked about a lot I think in the future.

 

[Nicktendo86]

To be honest now the only thing stopping a 1983 style Tory landslide in 2020 would be them tearing themselves apart over the EU, which will probably happen. The next 5 years will probably shape the political landscape of this country for the coming couple of decades.

Edit: thinking about it this EU vote really will be a massive event won't it. Cameron will probably go after the vote, regardless of the result, leaving Osbourne to try to piece the party back together. Fascinating stuff coming up.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I think if the labour party manage to curb his foreign policy views and stay united they have a decent shot. These will be their biggest difficulties

No one's going to blame Corbyn for the recession, so the blair-era attacks that damaged miliband and balls so easily will just bounce off Corbyn. But he has to have reasonably costed economic plans otherwise the 80's attacks cchq are no doubt already dreaming up may stick.

 

[Jezbollah]

The thing is, his radical views are what is appealing to the people voting him in as leader. If that is tempered or airbrushed come election time, I can see a lot of people saying "this isnt the Corbyn I voted for" and be in danger of becoming disillusioned once again.

Cyclops, you're not wrong about 2015 being talked about a lot for a few years. After this leadership election, I can see an epic Blairite purge coming very soon after. It's going to be incredible to see.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Well there is already talk and rumours of deselection coming up. A lot of MPs are shutting themselves, but what do they do? Get purged or tow the Corbyn line and forever be tainted when it all comes crashing down?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The thing is, his radical views are what is appealing to the people voting him in as leader. If that is tempered or airbrushed come election time, I can see a lot of people saying "this isnt the Corbyn I voted for" and be in danger of becoming disillusioned once again.

Cyclops, you're not wrong about 2015 being talked about a lot for a few years. After this leadership election, I can see an epic Blairite purge coming very soon after. It's going to be incredible to see.

But pretty much all the radical views he has that would make him unelectable are all stuff he's not likely to meet much resistance on if he doesn't act on them in office. No one's going to care if he doesn't push for a united ireland or set up joint governance of the falkands.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

You all know Corbyn has constantly said that policy will be democratically decided by the party and not the leadership if he wins right? He's not just going to go in and force his views because he's a massive fan of democracy. If the PLP argues against that then that's just going to make them look bad.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

You all know Corbyn has constantly said that policy will be democratically decided by the party and not the leadership if he wins right? He's not just going to go in and force his views because he's a massive fan of democracy. If the PLP argues against that then that's just going to make them look bad.

What politicians say and what they later do have proven to be entirely different things on many occasions.

Hopefully he's one of the rare exceptions. That stuff with his kid's schooling certainly suggests he'd stick to his word (or does it suggest he didn't parent with consent lol), but we'll see.

 

[Volotaire]

The Labour Party constitution gives a weird amount of control to the Front Bench - which is one of the arguments in favour of a the slow guerrilla Campaign where some of the hostile elements get shadow cabinet positions and therefore some actual, rather than thereotical, power. Obviously, though, Corby is choosing the cabinet.

This will be genuinely fascinating. 2015's gonna be talked about a lot I think in the future.

I can't wait to read an academic thesis in 50 years time on the causes of the rise of Corbyn. It's utterly fascinating and there are many short term and long term factors that could be explored.

It won't be the same after tomorrow.

 

[Mr. Sam]

This leaves the door open for Dianne Abbott to make the shadow cabinet. Lol.

She's done well for someone with a single digit IQ.

 

[Par Score]

And for Khan when he loses the mayoral election

Bit worried about how lightweight the shadow cabinet could shape up to be. Wonder if Cruddas will be asked given what he's been saying recently

BoJo was an anomaly. London is normally very Labour and very Left, so I expect Khan to do well.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

BoJo was an anomaly. London is normally very Labour and very Left, so I expect Khan to do well.

Goldsmith is hardly a typical tory himself though. He will probably pick up some Green support as well.

 

[Nicktendo86]

BoJo was an anomaly. London is normally very Labour and very Left, so I expect Khan to do well.

Yougov polling (yeah I know polls lol) have had goldsmith ahead of Khan for a while now.

The gap between Khan and Jowell on best Labour mayoral candidate has grown from 12 to 21 points since January, and any chance he had against Goldsmith in hypothetical run-offs has slipped away since June. Two months ago they were tied 50/50, but now Goldsmith enjoys an eight point lead.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/13/goldsmith-london-mayoral-race/

 

[Uzzy]

Cameron finally said something accurate. We here in Yorkshire do hate each other!

More seriously, he's right that the devolution proposals from Yorkshire are a big mess. The Leeds proposal that brings York into it's mayoral region is just nonsense.

 

[Maledict]

It's a joke that I heard many times in my years in Leeds.

And, as someone who lived in Leed and now spends time in York, the idea that you can put York in the same region as Leeds is utter gibberish of the highest sort. Complete nonsense, and God knows what they are thinking.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The funny thing about Goldsmith is that he has threatened to resign his Commons seat in the past over Heathrow expansion. There's a very large and angry swarm of bees called the London Liberal Democrats who would love to take a pop at his seat if it comes to it.

Corbyn is going to have about fifteen minutes before the first dagger comes out, I think. Labour are not that terribly interested in democracy or common sense (after all, they didn't back AV but then chose to implement it for their elections!) so I'd imagine we'll see Ummuna/Kendall/Hunt and their supporters start their game pretty quickly.

The reaction of Labour to the formal Common Good movement (or what it is ultimately will end up calling itself) will be interesting. Depending on how it goes it could well end up being rounded on as disloyal quite quickly. If my history memory is right, originally the SDP's founding members tried to set up a sub-party for sane Labourites under Foot, so this path has been trodden before.

 

[Volotaire]

Could someone correct me on these proceedings? When the Labour leader and deputy leader are announced tomorrow, do their positions start the next working day or is there a transitional period of a few weeks?

i.e. will Corbyn have to announce some of his Shadow Cabinet very quickly to prepare for some of the Commons proceedings that will be going on next week as well as PMQ's.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

He's finalising the cabinet today, I'd assume. He becomes leader of the LP immediately, which is when I'd expect Labour HQ's HR department starts getting resignation letters.

 

[Jezbollah]

Yep I think I heard that Corbyn will be up at the box at PMQs on Wednesday so there's no messing around in getting the leader stuck in.

 

[Volotaire]

Thanks. This will be a very busy week.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Dwp questions are in Monday so he needs a shadow work and pensions minister by then.