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[Empty]

tax credits issue is quite interesting, with the sun weighing in now. really think this will be very unpopular in the next few years as people realize what it means and how little the "living wage" makes the difference up. it's a significant cut in pay for a large number of people just months after tories were rewarded with a majority due to optimism on the economy. the optics for the lowest paid are really bad too, plus it hits the working poor so it undermines the whole undeserving vs deserving poor stuff they've gone after with the welfare cuts. i mean people support balancing the books overall but i think they expect fewer noticeable cuts with the tax revenues increasing on a growing economy now we're seven years after the financial crisis.

it's just a shame there isn't an opposition party so it becomes the first battle in boris vs osborne

 

[PJV3]

tax credits issue is quite interesting, with the sun weighing in now. really think this will be very unpopular in the next few years as people realize what it means and how little the "living wage" makes the difference up. it's a significant cut in pay for a large number of people just months after tories were rewarded with a majority due to optimism on the economy. the optics for the lowest paid are really bad too, plus it hits the working poor so it undermines the whole undeserving vs deserving poor stuff they've gone after with the welfare cuts. i mean people support balancing the books overall but i think they expect fewer noticeable cuts with the tax revenues increasing on a growing economy now we're seven years after the financial crisis.

it's just a shame there isn't an opposition party so it becomes the first battle in boris vs osborne

Of course there's an opposition party, Labour are going to do some necessary internal battles, but they will be strong on issues like this.

 

[Uzzy]

Of course there's an opposition party, Labour are going to do some necessary internal battles, but they will be strong on issues like this.

So strong that they abstained when it came to the vote pushing this welfare reform through. Thankfully Corbyn voted against it, but the rest of the party was shamefully craven.

 

[Empty]

So strong that they abstained when it came to the vote pushing this welfare reform through. Thankfully Corbyn voted against it, but the rest of the party was shamefully craven.

they didn't abstain on the tax credit cuts

that vote took place in september, it was separate to the welfare reform bill which they abstained on in august

when it came to tax credits cuts every single labour mp present voted against, the tories have a majority in parliament so it passed

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Man, Private Eye went in on the hackedoff campaigns hypocrisy regarding pigcamcockgate.

I also didn't realise the journo behind this was the one who gave up her source during huhne's driving points escapades.

 

[PJV3]

So strong that they abstained when it came to the vote pushing this welfare reform through. Thankfully Corbyn voted against it, but the rest of the party was shamefully craven.

Just following orders, I absolutely loathe the way Westminster operates. Harriet Harman made a terrible and unnecessary decision and party loyalty nonsense kicked in.

I still don't think people should swallow the idea that Labour is dead, it's going through something it needed to do 10 years ago.


I see you were talking about something else. My point about the party still remains, it's one of the areas it is still strong in. Unlike immigration and nuking stuff.

 

[Uzzy]

they didn't abstain on the tax credit cuts

that vote took place in september, it was separate to the welfare reform bill which they abstained on in august

when it came to tax credits cuts every single labour mp present voted against, the tories have a majority in parliament so it passed

Hmm, my mistake, and I'm glad it was a mistake. In that case, I hope there can be an upsurge in opposition to it.

 

[Moosichu]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

 

[PJV3]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

That and the spitting is wrong, end of.

4 arrests with that amount of people protesting is pretty good, the focus will be on the numbnuts sadly, but it shouldn't be.

 

[tomtom94]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

Constant dehumanising rhetoric has a tendency to make people forget that their targets are human. see also: Britain First.

 

[Uzzy]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

I don't know, seeing those ever so posh, smug, young kids standing there taking photos of the protesters like they were at a zoo makes me feel like they were looking for a reaction. Mission accomplished I guess. He'll have his photo in the papers tomorrow, and that'll be what people associate with anti-austerity protests.

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

Should've been batteries tbqh.

 

[f0rk]

Should've been batteries tbqh.

Yes that's how the left will win back votes; by throwing batteries at the opposition.

 

[PJV3]

hunt can't be happy with a Tory MP dropping him in it over the new junior doctor contract.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/04/deal-over-junior-doctors-contracts-was-torn-up-reveals-ex-health-minister#img-1

 

[tomtom94]

At the rate he's screwing up and getting promoted Hunt will be PM by the end of the EU referendum.

 

[CyclopsRock]

At the rate he's screwing up and getting promoted Hunt will be PM by the end of the EU referendum.

Or EU Commissioner. Trololol.

 

[PJV3]

Or EU Commissioner. Trololol.

Poor bugger, would they be that cruel?

Osborne cracks me up, the Adonis scoop is great political scheming , stick the boot into labour and Boris all at once(if it's true that it signals Heathrow expansion).

I like the idea but I'm unsure about Adonis, school academies are his brainchild and they are the biggest pile of meh I can think of. So much effort for apparently little difference compared to LEA schools. But he's really into transport, so we'll see.

 

[brain_stew]

Finally got around to renewing my Lib Dem membership. With Labour evacuating mainstream politics, I've felt a renewed conviction in my own politics and at 28 it is high time I personally contributed.

 

[twobear]

In his underwhelming address, Lord Feldman was a shade tactless. Celebrating the first majority Tory government since 1997 (how they love that detail), he said people will now remember exactly where they were when Ed Balls lost his seat instead of where they were “when England won the World Cup” (he meant 1966, not Saturday’s rugby exit). He then invoked “mass unemployment” in the Labour 1970s ( it was actually lower than now). Not to be outdone, the defence secretary, Michael Fallon, later urged delegates to honour men and women who wear the Queen’s uniform, all 2,000 of them. Unless defence cuts are deeper than admitted, he meant 200,000.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rence-diary-osborne-must-beware-the-outsiders

 

[ruttyboy]

Realpolitik nasty style.

 

[Beefy]

So who's face is more punchable? Cameron's or Osborne's?

 

[Mindwipe]

Concerning the protests outside the Tory conference. Why do some people feel the need to shoot themselves in the foot by throwing eggs at people?

It's all tied into the increased "us versus them" rhetoric level on Twitter between journalists and everyone else.

And most of the journalists have made things much worse for themselves. Things will get much worse in future too - protests don't get press coverage usually. This one did. People will learn from that.

 

[Moosichu]

Realpolitik nasty style.

The tax payers alliance are such an annoying group.


Treating the national budget like a household one as well...

 

[twobear]

Realpolitik nasty style.

Does he honestly believe that people can remember something as economically irrelevant as 'Gordon Brown sold the gold' but they won't remember who cut their pensions and slashed winter fuel allowance?

Actually on second thought, we're talking about a government who managed to convince people that Labour caused an international financial crisis and that one of the worst chancellors of the exchequer in the country's history is doing a good job. Maybe it is possible. Better give Murdoch a call so that they can figure out the best way to sell it.

 

[PJV3]

Realpolitik nasty style.

Amazing, fuck 'em they probably have dementia anyway.

 

[Audioboxer]

Realpolitik nasty style.

"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."

He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."

Jesus fucking christ.

 

[Maledict]

As much as I dislike the Taxpayers alliance, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are saying there in practical terms.

1) Pensioner benefits have to be cut if the government is going to tackle the welfare bill and the deficit. There's no ifs or buts about it - the triple lock has to go, winter fuel allowances have to become means tested, etc etc. We spend more on pensioners than any other benefit, and bribing the old on the back of the young has to stop. The way the current government has bribed old people to vote for them whilst preaching austerity is *disgusting* - they are literally fucking over the young and middle aged so that wealthy pensioners can continue to get a benefit they don't need.

2) You should always, in political terms, take your harshest decisions as soon as you win. It's the time when you have the greatest mandate, and it gives you more breathing space until the next election. People get used to the bad impacts your decisions have taken over time, and they do forget things. Outside of massive shocks to the system (Black friday for the tories in 90s, the financial meltdown in the late 2000s), voters tend not to remember speciifcs that much unles they had a huge impact on themself.

 

[tomtom94]

Even as someone who subscribes to a utilitiarian viewpoint I consider those comments pretty reprehensible tbh. It reminds me of Boxer and Animal Farm.

As much as I dislike the Taxpayers alliance, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are saying there in practical terms.

1) Pensioner benefits have to be cut if the government is going to tackle the welfare bill and the deficit. There's no ifs or buts about it - the triple lock has to go, winter fuel allowances have to become means tested, etc etc. We spend more on pensioners than any other benefit, and bribing the old on the back of the young has to stop. The way the current government has bribed old people to vote for them whilst preaching austerity is *disgusting* - they are literally fucking over the young and middle aged so that wealthy pensioners can continue to get a benefit they don't need.

Just as a point, while I agree that winter fuel is an extravagant expense that often goes where it's not needed, would we not fall into the trap that means testing it would cost more money?

 

[twobear]

"It needs to be tackled in order to bring down the deficit."

False and irrelevant anyway.

 

[Audioboxer]

As much as I dislike the Taxpayers alliance, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are saying there in practical terms.

1) Pensioner benefits have to be cut if the government is going to tackle the welfare bill and the deficit. There's no ifs or buts about it - the triple lock has to go, winter fuel allowances have to become means tested, etc etc. We spend more on pensioners than any other benefit, and bribing the old on the back of the young has to stop. The way the current government has bribed old people to vote for them whilst preaching austerity is *disgusting* - they are literally fucking over the young and middle aged so that wealthy pensioners can continue to get a benefit they don't need.

2) You should always, in political terms, take your harshest decisions as soon as you win. It's the time when you have the greatest mandate, and it gives you more breathing space until the next election. People get used to the bad impacts your decisions have taken over time, and they do forget things. Outside of massive shocks to the system (Black friday for the tories in 90s, the financial meltdown in the late 2000s), voters tend not to remember speciifcs that much unles they had a huge impact on themself.

Sure things always need to be reviewed, but where are these cut throat practical comments towards big company/rich individual tax avoidance? Even if you can argue good points that some of what goes to pensioners may need changed, it always seem to be the immediate target for the government to go after the weakest to reduce this deficit, like the old/poor/sick are the largest contributors. They're clearly not if any stats on tax avoidance are to go by. Or some of the ridiculous private landlord renting costs that encourage the poorer to go after benefits to supplement minimum wage jobs.

The tactics to voting you talk about always seem to be fear mongering - Don't vote for independence, you'll lose your pension! and the likes. Hook, line and sinker, get them voting, then go after them as they'll be "dead" by the next election anyway.

 

[Maledict]

Um, the government has been handing cash over fist to pensioners since 2010. Its the only area of the welfare bill where they have considerably upped spending. A huge amount of reductions in benefit have gone towards breaks for older people, rather than actually reducing the deficit. Cutting benefits for disabled people to pay for the triple lock for older people is frankly, disgusting given how much reform is needed in that area.

(Whether you need to reduce the deficit is a different question - my point is that if that is your stated aim and you talk about reducing the welfare bill then you need to look at the welfare system for older people).

 

[Audioboxer]

Um, the government has been handing cash over fist to pensioners since 2010. Its the only area of the welfare bill where they have considerably upped spending. A huge amount of reductions in benefit have gone towards breaks for older people, rather than actually reducing the deficit. Cutting benefits for disabled people to pay for the triple lock for older people is frankly, disgusting given how much reform is needed in that area.

(Whether you need to reduce the deficit is a different question - my point is that if that is your stated aim and you talk about reducing the welfare bill then you need to look at the welfare system for older people).

I don't disagree reform and reviewing isn't a method that needs looked into, but the way it's voiced above is absolutely disgusting and my main point is you always seem to see the vulnerable spoken about in such a way.

In regards to winter fuel in general, I for one would support a government/public regulated energy board. Maybe if we hadn't been selling off everything right, left and center, we could have a fairer cost for energy/gas/oil, especially in the winter. Once private companies take over it's all about insane profiteering, and little give for humanity.

 

[PJV3]

Hunt strikes again.

We're going to learn to work hard like the Chinese, the man is on a mission this week.

 

[twobear]

some people might take the view that one of the advantages of living in a first world country is that you don't have to work as hard as the chinese

remember how it was kind of dream of the people who established the postwar consensus that by the year 2000 people would only have to work a 3 day week? now it seems like working anything less than 60 hours a week is considered morally repugnant.

 

[tomtom94]

Alex Wild has apologised for his remarks, to the surprise of no-one

The female Conservative MPs have reported sexist chants, which is really not on

oh, and Whittingdale argues that people have lost confidence in the BBC complaints system.

 

[CyclopsRock]

some people might take the view that one of the advantages of living in a first world country is that you don't have to work as hard as the chinese

remember how it was kind of dream of the people who established the postwar consensus that by the year 2000 people would only have to work a 3 day week? now it seems like working anything less than 60 hours a week is considered morally repugnant.

Do something you love, godelsmetric, and you'll never work a day in your life.

 

[twobear]

it's a bit unrealistic to think that there's a job for everyone to do what they want

especially with the tories forcing people to work for free at poundland

 

[kmag]

Do something you love, godelsmetric, and you'll never work a day in your life.

Say that to a junior doctor, and you'll probably end up a scalpel in the eye.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Say that to a junior doctor, and you'll probably end up a scalpel in the eye.

Well who better? "Ow, I've been stabbed in the eye! It's handy a Dr is right here!"

 

[twobear]

I've personally never felt more pessimistic about my own future than I do at the moment.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

It’s free markets that enable people to pursue their dreams and create prosperity.

It’s access to information and free speech that helps us understand the world and make progress.

Where people don’t have these freedoms, we have seen the greatest declines in the natural world.

With species driven to extinction and habitats despoiled.

And as countries become wealthier, they want to invest in the environment, planting trees, cleaning up rivers and tackling air pollution.

I believe that a strong economy and a healthy environment go hand in hand.

RIP humanity, you had a good run

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Realpolitik nasty style.

You have no idea how helpful that winter fuel allowance was for my mother. I'm not sure my dad is entitled to it this year as a widower.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

"Dignity is not just about how much money you have got ... Officially children are growing up in poverty if there is an income in that family of less than £16,500. What the Conservatives say is how that £16,500 is earned matters. It matters if you are earning that yourself, because if you are earning it yourself you are independent and that is the first step towards self-respect. If that £16,500 is either a high proportion or entirely through the benefit system you are trapped. It is about pathways to work, pathways to independence. It is about creating a pathway to independence, self-respect and dignity."

I'll be sure to tell the bailiffs that.

 

[twobear]

most people who claim benefits are employed. this government would be farcical if they weren't so malign.

 

[CyclopsRock]

RIP humanity, you had a good run

Seems reasonable tbh

 

[Lashley]

"Dignity is not just about how much money you have got ... Officially children are growing up in poverty if there is an income in that family of less than £16,500. What the Conservatives say is how that £16,500 is earned matters. It matters if you are earning that yourself, because if you are earning it yourself you are independent and that is the first step towards self-respect. If that £16,500 is either a high proportion or entirely through the benefit system you are trapped. It is about pathways to work, pathways to independence. It is about creating a pathway to independence, self-respect and dignity."

I'll be sure to tell the bailiffs that.

"Please don't take the TV, I paid for that with dignity"

"And self respect?"

"Of course."

"Alright Garry, put the TV back on the wall."

 

[twobear]

Seems reasonable tbh

Really? Without government restrictions on the free market we'd still be dumping CFCs into the atmosphere, to name but a single example out of thousands.

Or wait—presumably you believe that the 'invisible hand of the market' would have solved it for us anyway without government intervention. Probably even faster if we had even less government regulation in the first place.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Really? Without government restrictions on the free market we'd still be dumping CFCs into the atmosphere.

Or wait—presumably you believe that the 'invisible hand of the market' would have solved it for us anyway without government intervention. Probably even faster if we had even less government regulation.

Nope, not at all. Banning CFC's was absolutely the right thing to do. But do politicians really need to caveat every mention of "the free market" with the phrase "bear in mind, I'm not actually an anarchist"? I'm sure, to the sensible reader/listener, they understand that her point was that free enterprise creates prosperity and prosperity enables people the "freedom" (which in this case basically means money) to protect their environment. Or, to put it another way, it's a lot easier to care about the emissions of the factory making Nike trainers when you're not in the factory making Nike trainers, ya dig? For people to whom capitalism has yet to come knocking and deliver them out of poverty, they've neither the voice nor, I suspect, the inclination to care about such things when their kids are starving to death. None of this means the government should never intervene, however.

 

[Beefy]

I've personally never felt more pessimistic about my own future than I do at the moment.

I'm self employed, at least I can take maternity leave. I can't see me losing all my business, they will just wait around until I return right? Oh...

 

[twobear]

Regardless of whatever you think her intention is, it's pretty much an undeniable fact that 'free markets' have done the most damage to our environments and it's only government regulation that has the hope of any kind of change to that. It's intellectually dishonest in the extreme to propose that it's not capital and the pursuit of profit that has done most environmental damage worldwide.

That's not to deny, of course, that it has also been pretty powerful in raising the living standards of many people in the world. Those two things often go hand in hand; a point that Jarrod Diamond has made several times in his writing.