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[Kuros]

McDonnell has taken the drivers seat in the clown car today. It would be funny if it wasn't kind of sad.

The latest development in the clusterf*ck that is the current Labour Party, is that before the election the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, was a signatory to a letter from a group called Socialist Network which called for the Police to be disarmed and for MI5 to be disbanded.

McDonnell claimed last night to have never heard of Socialist Network and to have never seen the letter, but the Sun has since discovered that he attended the meeting at which the letter was drawn up, and Guido Fawkes has found a photo of him proudly holding the letter up for all to see:

It'll be interesting to see how Corbyn and his IRA-supporting chum get out of this one.

This week just gets worse and worse for Corbyn.

 

[JonathanEx]

Not been following too closely, but the my initial reaction to what I've seen of Labour over the last few days is 'Stop, stop, it's already dead'.

 

[twobear]

God damn Nick Cohen has shredded Corbyn today..

This is the same kind of garbage that people throw at people like Noam Chomsky when they accuse him of being anti-American.

 

[Jezbollah]

This is the same kind of garbage that people throw at people like Noam Chomsky when they accuse him of being anti-American.

But when you see the likes of the stuff Kuros highlighted above, what do you think happens to the perception of the leadership of the Labour party?

 

[CyclopsRock]

McDonnell has taken the drivers seat in the clown car today. It would be funny if it wasn't kind of sad.

Smears!

 

[uncleniccius]

Loads of people are really getting angry about the plane thing, thoughts?

It seems logical to me that you'd have something explicitly for the use of the pm / senior officials.. *if * it does save money then it is another example of unneeded anger.. Which is weird when there are real issues.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Not been following too closely, but the my initial reaction to what I've seen of Labour over the last few days is 'Stop, stop, it's already dead'.

This pretty much sums it up.

Lib dem fightback

Westminster voting intention:
CON: 41% (+5)
LAB: 34% (+2)
LDEM: 7% (-3)
UKIP: 7% (-5)
GRN: 4% (+1)
(via Ipsos-Mori / 14 - 17 Nov)

 

[Kuros]

Loads of people are really getting angry about the plane thing, thoughts?

It seems logical to me that you'd have something explicitly for the use of the pm / senior officials.. *if * it does save money then it is another example of unneeded anger.. Which is weird when there are real issues.

If it's cheaper than them having to charter private flights then they might as well do it.

 

[Calabi]

so do you think that one man's beliefs (in particular, Corbyn) should define party policy? Because the last time I saw he and McDonnell bypassed both PLP and the whole party membership when they last made a big u-turn..

Isn't that how politics normally works though? What the leader wants goes, its a faux democracy. I dont agree with it but what the hell.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Isn't that how politics normally works though? What the leader wants goes, its a faux democracy. I dont agree with it but what the hell.

Normally. But we are meant to be in a new era of strait talking, honest politics of consensus.

 

[kmag]

Loads of people are really getting angry about the plane thing, thoughts?

It seems logical to me that you'd have something explicitly for the use of the pm / senior officials.. *if * it does save money then it is another example of unneeded anger.. Which is weird when there are real issues.

They're saying it won't repay the investment for 13 years, at which point I'm sure they'll be up for another refit/touchup. At a time when most Governmental departments are having to find 24% savings it's funny where we choose to 'invest'. We can always find money to keep politicians and the royal leeches in the lap of luxury.

Of course, it's also ignoring the fact the Royals and politicians already have use of the RAF's 4 BAe's 146 (100's and 200's) from No. 32 (The Royal) Squadron at Northholt.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is a converted military plane more luxurious than the charter flights they get now?

 

[kmag]

Is a converted military plane more luxurious than the charter flights they get now?

The 'military' plane is just a standard A330-200 with some extra plumbing (the RAF Voyagers are leased A330 MRTT's) currently with extra removable fuel storage in the cargo bay and detachable refuelling pods on the wings and fuseage . It already has 32 business class seats and 120 economy class seats in it's default config. The fact they're looking to spend £12 million on it suggests significant tarting up.

Thomas Cook actually use one of the surge aircraft (as a money saving measure the RAF lease the 14 aircraft, with 5 of them designated as surge aircraft which unless currently needed by the RAF are used by Airtanker PLC for cargo and passenger subleasing) for carting folk to Las Vegas and Cancun. Yes, in the event of a large scale conflict it's likely the RAF Typhoons would be getting refuelled by a plane which looks like this, but hey we have Nukes.

https://www.airtanker.co.uk/news-ce...ok-airlines-agree-landmark-civil-leasing-deal

 

[Jezbollah]

Hey, well considering most US tankers are glorified Boeing 707s, I think we have one up on the Yanks by having blinged A330s

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Some Tory sleaze has been bubbling under the radar for a bit but now the Mail is reporting on it. It's pretty grim reading on their website by a whistle-blower in the party.

"Sex, drugs and blackmail claims rock the Tories: Party chiefs are accused of cover-up over allegations against bullying PM's aide who 'had sex dossiers on four MPs"

Yikes.

 

[Saiyar]

Some Tory sleaze has been bubbling under the radar for a bit but now the Mail is reporting on it. It's pretty grim reading on their website by a whistle-blower in the party.

"Sex, drugs and blackmail claims rock the Tories: Party chiefs are accused of cover-up over allegations against bullying PM's aide who 'had sex dossiers on four MPs"

Yikes.

It is looking pretty bad, especially since one of the victims committed suicide.

 

[kmag]

The heart bleeds

By most measures Adam and Megan Brownson would be considered very affluent.
Their respective careers - in management consultantancy and personal injury law - give them a joint income of £190,000. The couple also own two properties with a combined value of more than £1m, putting them in the wealthiest 1pc of households in Britain.

heir single biggest outgoing is the £2,500-a-month mortgage on their £725,000 family home in south west London. They still have £510,000 left to pay, on top of the £170,000 mortgage debt on their buy-to-let flat in south east London, which is now worth £315,000.
They are currently renting it out for £950 a month which covers the buy-to-let mortgage, but they are worried that heavier taxes facing many landlords could mean they will soon make a loss.
They have two daughters, Emme, who is two and a half, and Belle, who is just nine months old.
Having both been privately educated themselves, Adam and Megan are keen for the girls to have the same experience, and have signed them up to two private primary schools nearby.
Both have fees of around £4,000 a term, meaning that by the time Emme and Belle are both at school in a few years’ time, they will be spending at least £24,000 on school fees every year.

Their dilemma is how to fund the cost of the girls’ education without sacrificing their lifestyle. Megan, who is currently on maternity leave, usually works four days a week but she could increase her salary considerably if she goes back to work full time. With two small children she’s reluctant to do this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...fford-private-school-fees.html?fb_ref=Default

Lets hope these two pull through these tough times, and wee Emme and Belle get a better private education than their parents who somehow can't make circa £66k a year in discretionary spend go far enough. (joint income after tax is more than £120k a year, mortgage £30k, school fees £24k)

 

[Maledict]

I read that article and was impressed that the Telegraph managed to come across as blind and ignorant as that often mocked Wall Street Journal pictographic where the poor starving single mum with only $200K annual income plus $150K of investments was suffering under Obama.

As we've said before though, everyone was worried about murdochs influence at the Times whilst the Telegraph took a running jump into the rubbish bin in the background. The paper is dreadful now.

 

[kmag]

I read that article and was impressed that the Telegraph managed to come across as blind and ignorant as that often mocked Wall Street Journal pictographic where the poor starving single money with only $200K annual income plus $150K of investments was suffering under Obama.

As we've said before though, everyone was worried about murdochs influence at the Times whilst the Telegraph took a running jump into the rubbish bin in the background. The paper is dreadful now.

It's a masterpiece, with a management consultant and personal injury lawyer they couldn't have picked two more apt examples of Osbornes 'produce nothing, contribute nothing' economy.

 

[Saiyar]

It's a masterpiece, with a management consultant and personal injury lawyer they couldn't have picked two more apt examples of Osbornes 'produce nothing, contribute nothing' economy.

Talking about Osborne he now looks set to miss his own deficit reduction target for the sixth year running. Amusingly this also means he is likely to fall into his own spending trap.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

The heart bleeds








http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...fford-private-school-fees.html?fb_ref=Default

Lets hope these two pull through these tough times, and wee Emme and Belle get a better private education than their parents who somehow can't make circa £66k a year in discretionary spend go far enough. (joint income after tax is more than £120k a year, mortgage £30k, school fees £24k)

This is a fucking joke right? Jeeeesus.

Also I thought it was Corbyn who was supposed to be a threat to economic, national and family security

Spoiler

OK the NHS/family thing is a stretch but I'm still not entirely sure what they were talking about with family security? The police one would probably cover it but hey, the NHS is doing shit under Hunt so might as well throw it in as well

 

[Mr. Sam]

I guess everybody's got it hard. Mind you, it's more of an advice column than a human interest story, no?

 

[kmag]

We earn £190K a year. Should we sell a child so we can buy another flat?'
20-11-15

By most measures Tom and Sarah Logan would be considered affluent.

Their respective careers – in software design and some sort of marketing bullshit – give them a joint income of £190,000. They also own a pair of children with a combined value of more than £250,000.

But the couple are worried about becoming ‘financially spunked’ as the sheer cost of middle-class life in London means they can only afford one large house and one buy-to-let flat.

Meanwhile, the financial pressures of raising a property portfolio has lead them to rack up credit card debts on school fees and children’s food.

They have two sons, Charlie who is five and Ollie who is three. Having both been privately educated themselves, Tom and Sarah were keen for the boys to have the same experience, but have decided it is not as good value as buying another flat.

The dilemma is how to expand their portfolio without selling one or both of their existing children.

The expert view:
Tom Booker, head of child sales at Porter, Pinkney and Turner
Sell both children, but insert a clause where you can buy them back at 22 when they have finished university and have learned to drive.

Martin Bishop, financial adviser at Donnelly-McPartlin
By leasing one of the children, you can increase your buy to let borrowing power and offset your tax bill. The other child could be given a second hand fishing rod and told to catch his own meals.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ild-so-we-can-buy-another-flat-20151120104033

 

[Uzzy]

This is a fucking joke right? Jeeeesus.

Also I thought it was Corbyn who was supposed to be a threat to economic, national and family security

Spoiler

OK the NHS/family thing is a stretch but I'm still not entirely sure what they were talking about with family security? The police one would probably cover it but hey, the NHS is doing shit under Hunt so might as well throw it in as well

It's fine. NHS in deficit, Osborne running up the deficit, police cuts making it harder to fight terrorism? That's all fine. No one in the media will care (except the Guardian of course!), because Corbyn probably said something in the 70s like 'we should consider talking to the Soviets' and this will be brought up over the weekend as evidence that he's a communist traitor who's unfit to run the country.

 

[twobear]

It's almost like it's a deliberate campaign to fill the papers with so many Corbyn smears nobody is paying attention to how bad a job Cameron and Osborne are doing.

Almost.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Are they smears if they're true, though? This week has been a cluster fuck of entirely their own making.

Edit: "they" being the Labour leadership.

 

[Empty]

Are they smears if they're true, though? This week has been a cluster fuck of entirely their own making.

Edit: "they" being the Labour leadership.

yeah smears are either untrue or exaggerated/unfairly positioned for political damage

but they're all true and they're all the kind of omnishambles stuff that the media loves to report on regardless of political party, so hardly particular agenda driven

what's actually happening is that corbyn has assembled a team in his own image so utterly incompetent at running political operation that he's entirely undermined his own ideas

the spin is that the incompetence is actually manufactured smears because the tories are just that afraid of him as they canter to a huge majority. which will last until the next election at which point he was just tragically undermined by the horrible blairites and the biased murdoch press.

 

[Jezbollah]

I wonder if this is a smear then?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Was a good night for the Tories last night regarding local council by elections, won 3 taking one each off of Labour, UKIP and the Lib Dems.

 

[pulsemyne]

Was a good night for the Tories last night regarding local council by elections, won 3 taking one each off of Labour, UKIP and the Lib Dems.

Yeah and it was fantastic news as regards borrowing! Such a good job they are doing getting that deficit down. Oh wait worst October borrowing for 6 years i.e the worst borrowing since they came to power. And this at a time of growth. Gives you strange idea that maybe they have no clue what they are doing and should have kept taxes on the rich a bit high to cover such shortfalls.
Actually no because that would make some sense.
Oh and fabulous job they are doing "Protecting" the NHS.

 

[Jezbollah]

Yeah and it was fantastic news as regards borrowing! Such a good job they are doing getting that deficit down. Oh wait worst October borrowing for 6 years i.e the worst borrowing since they came to power. And this at a time of growth. Gives you strange idea that maybe they have no clue what they are doing and should have kept taxes on the rich a bit high to cover such shortfalls.
Actually no because that would make some sense.
Oh and fabulous job they are doing "Protecting" the NHS.

Yep. And they got back in gaining 24 seats. Why don't you focus your anger on the opposition for doing such a great job and holding them to account?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Tim Shipman of the Sunday times sums up Labour's position on Syria pretty well

Corbyn/McDonnell: "Get a UN resolution"
Cameron: "We got a UN resolution."
Corbyn/McDonnell: "Not that UN resolution."

Hillary Benn seems to see it differently though. I'm pretty sure the moderates are looking to him to be the next leader and I think he would do a decent job.

@pulsemyne well I was merely stating facts, if the those things you say are true the opposition must be doing a spectacularly piss poor job.

As for the NHS, it is clearly facing massive challenges nationwide. We know its been dire in Labour run Wales for years and Scotland isn't looking too great either

NHS waiting times in Scotland have “deteriorated” in recent years at the same time as the SNP presided over a real-terms cut in the health budget, according to a damning report by the public spending watchdog.

Tighter budgets, increasing demand and rising costs mean the Scottish Government must make “fundamental changes” to its approach to the NHS immediately to avoid a collapse in the quality of healthcare, Audit Scotland warned.

Opposition politicians said the “stark” findings were a sign that the SNP needed to “get a grip” on the NHS, but ministers said they had a “clear vision” for the future of Scotland’s health service and that reforms were already on the way to being delivered.

Audit Scotland’s annual report on the state of the health service said that despite more money being put into the NHS, the health budget had actually decreased by 0.7 per cent in real terms since 2008/09, the year after the SNP first won power. It now stands at £11.85bn, or £86m less than six years ago.

NHS waiting time performance has also “deteriorated” in seven out of nine key areas in the past few years, the report warned, part of a “pattern of steady decline” over the longer term. The number of outpatients waiting for more than 12 weeks for their first appointment increased from 3 per cent in March 2013 to 8 per cent this year.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...hs-healthcare-collapse-scotland-a6702896.html

 

[Uzzy]

Tim Shipman of the Sunday times sums up Labour's position on Syria pretty well

Well, if you're unable to distinguish between a UN resolution on ISIS and one on the wider Syrian civil war and efforts to end that, then yes, that is a very good summation of Labour's position.

Anyway, Corbyn set out his position today. Seems pretty clear to me, he doesn't want to just bomb Syria for the sake of it. He wants an actual international solution to the civil war.

 

[Mr Git]

They're closing even more of the mental health service units here, including the one my mum works at - which is bizarre as it's a new successful unit which has had the lease and even catering paid for in advance. They're running out very quickly. Truly shit. We used to have incredible mental health services here. I don't think there's an acute ward left.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Andrew Neil:

Tomorrow's Comres poll in tomorrow's @DailyMirror and @Independent will be cause for concern for Labour.

He replied 'don't hold your breath' to someone who said 32 points would be decent.

@Mr Git, that is fucking disgraceful.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Andrew Neil:



He replied 'don't hold your breath' to someone who said 32 points would be decent.

@Mr Git, that is fucking disgraceful.

Have they figured out why they were wrong on the election result? Also there were times between 2010 and 2015 when the Tories were behind by more than 10 points, yet they still got a majority.

Basically, *shrug*

 

[Nicktendo86]

Last I heard they think they didn't have random enough samples. Most of the pollsters have released pretty detailed explanations as to why they think they were so wrong but I've not been bothered to read in detail tbh.

 

[Nicktendo86]

It's out, 15 point Tory lead. Corbynmania continues to sweep the nation

Latest @TheSundayMirror / Independent on Sunday poll:
Con 42% (NC)
Lab 27% (-2)
LD 7% (NC)
UKIP 15% (+2) https://t.co/iLLADGKtnR

There must be genuine concerns about Oldham now.

 

[Jezbollah]

It's out, 15 point Tory lead. Corbynmania continues to sweep the nation

There must be genuine concerns about Oldham now.

"Biggest Con lead in while in govt since Jan 1991. Tied with Jun ComRes for worst Lab % in opposition since Sep 1983." https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/668150132387524610

Moar smears!

 

[JonathanEx]

Inspired by the return of the 'there's a Simpsons gif for everything' thread. It's not all bad for Labour!

No it's actually terrible. I know Corbyn has yet to really push policies and an ideology to the public, but this is the start point, and it would well be the peak.

 

[Uzzy]

It's out, 15 point Tory lead. Corbynmania continues to sweep the nation

There must be genuine concerns about Oldham now.

Lets see how that looks after the autumn statement.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Lets see how that looks after the autumn statement.

The good news for labour is 27% is roughly what Foot got so I suspect that is probably the baseline, I don't think it could get much worse.

Things will even out after the autumn statement I'm sure but these numbers are when the Tories are split over Europe, tax credits and junior doctors are about to strike. Any credible opposition should have them in the ropes, they are not even in the arena, let alone the ring.

 

[Par Score]

It's out, 15 point Tory lead. Corbynmania continues to sweep the nation

There must be genuine concerns about Oldham now.

I'll allow the ever excellent Anthony Wells to make my rebuttal:

First, it's only ComRes showing that. Polls from other companies over the last two months have Con lead between five and seven points

Secondly, ComRes's new method had the Conservative lead between 11 and 14 points BEFORE Corbyn became leader

Now, it's clear Corbyn has hardly been a roaring success in the polls so far, but the general picture is broadly the same as before he was elected.

This can be seen as a failure (you'd expect a significant 'honeymoon' period for a new leader) or a success (the amount of shit that's been thrown at Corbyn from inside his own party is greater than most leaders get from outside), but it's certainly not led to some massive Labour collapse.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Thing is Labour Party isn't going anywhere regardless. If Corbyn does badly in the May locals, you might be able to get a working coup d'etat running against him, but not if a) the attempt was started by the Blairite faction or b) the stalking horse candidate is significantly more to the right. The trouble is Labour don't really have any appealing leftwing candidates because the party spent twenty years trying to get rid of them so only old fogeys like Corbyn are left. Best shot is, I don't know, Lisa Nandy?

 

[Kuros]

Thing is Labour Party isn't going anywhere regardless. If Corbyn does badly in the May locals, you might be able to get a working coup d'etat running against him, but not if a) the attempt was started by the Blairite faction or b) the stalking horse candidate is significantly more to the right. The trouble is Labour don't really have any appealing leftwing candidates because the party spent twenty years trying to get rid of them so only old fogeys like Corbyn are left. Best shot is, I don't know, Lisa Nandy?

Nah she goes to pieces in interviews far too often.

 

[Walshicus]

The fact is, Labour membership doesn't want another fucking Tory-lite leader.

If England as a whole is so bewildered by the media agitation against Corbyn's generally sensible, rational stances that they'd continue to vote for a party of proven evil (because how else can you describe the modern Tories?) then that's our own fault.

But frankly it's a little bit pathetic how much the right are trying to bring us back to a situation of little choice between three mainstream right-wing parties.

 

[Kuros]

McDonnell been signing things again. Today it was a document signed last year saying people should be able to opt out of any of there tax money being used on military spending. (Source is Sunday politics)

I'm guessing he forgot to read that one to.

 

[Walshicus]

That's an interestingly democratic idea. Force foreign-soil military adventures to be paid from a separate budget funded by those who opt in...

I mean I know I don't mean to pay my taxes to bomb brown people.

 

[Moosichu]

Thing is Labour Party isn't going anywhere regardless. If Corbyn does badly in the May locals, you might be able to get a working coup d'etat running against him, but not if a) the attempt was started by the Blairite faction or b) the stalking horse candidate is significantly more to the right. The trouble is Labour don't really have any appealing leftwing candidates because the party spent twenty years trying to get rid of them so only old fogeys like Corbyn are left. Best shot is, I don't know, Lisa Nandy?

Clive Lewis might be a dark horse. He seems like a decent person and is young and charismatic enough.

 

[RedShift]

Apparently the Tories have started trotting out an 'I told you so' narrative about how we should have bombed Syria three years ago. Let's just hope no one remembers they wanted to intervene on the side that became Islamic State.

Source (see George Osborne talking about the "terrible mistake" the House made in the video). I can't believe Labour/the media are letting them get away with this huge u-turn on which side they want to bomb.