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UK PoliGAF |OT2| - We Blue Ourselves

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T

tomtom94

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
Nah, he only voted against the party 300 times. But the PLP should totally stick with him.
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I mean, the PLP also changed the voting system to the one which gave him a landslide, so they should pissed at themselves for screwing the pooch on that one.

EDIT: Ooh, also, the speakers for the Oxford Union debate on "This House Believes the EU and Britain are Better Together" have been announced - in addition to Clegg and Farage coming back for another ding-dong, they've also got Jose Manuel Barroso (prop) and Sir William Cash (opp). Might well get media coverage if something particularly spicy happens.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Unless they want to look like a bunch of treacherous cretins who don't respect the legitimacy of their own election process, the PLP should stick by Corbyn (i.e. they won't).
 
M

Maledict

Member
Mr. Sam said:
Unless they want to look like a bunch of treacherous cretins who don't respect the legitimacy of their own election process, the PLP should stick by Corbyn (i.e. they won't).
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The majority are doing - basiclaly there's three groups in the PLP right now.

1) Old school left wingers. Corbyn, Dianne Abbott, the shadow chancellor - it's a very small group, but they got Corbyn on the ballot and form the inside circle

2) The "Make it work" camp, which is the vast majority of the PLP. Not happy with the result, but recognise the issues with dethroining him so trying to make it work. This is most of the big hitters and the majority of the party, including Burnham, Cooper etc.

3) The centre-right "we must remove corbyn now!" group, which is only slightly larger (if at all) than the old school left wingers. There really aren't many people in the PLP advocating for a coup right now. Labour is historically incredibly reticent to decapitate leaders no matter what.

The issues that have arisen so far have all been because Corbyn or his team so spectacularly fucked up that the "make it work" camp got angry. Both the austerity vote reversal and the shoot to kill discussion were clear errors of both policy and practice, and both of them undermine the majority of the PLP. the shoot to kill thing was amped up by the fact that one MP had his niece hiding in the toilets whilst the shooting was going on in Paris, and the incredibly bad ways that Corbyn is managing his messaging and press.

He has some valid points to make. He's probably *right* about a lot of this stuff. But his refusal to actually act as the leader of the opposition and head of the one of the country's largest political parties is ruining all that. H's not a back bench rebel any more, he can't just go into news interviews and give the press ammo to shoot him apart like he did the shoot to kill policy (haha bad pun). There are ways of making these points without splitting the party and enraging the part of the PLP that is trying to make this work.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
If Corbyn makes it to the end of today without a call for his resignation he'll have done alright.

I expect PMQs to be a very tepid affair where he mostly offers up questions from the public.
 
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Moosichu

Member
Livingstone is acting so destructiveley. He seems to just want to piss of people as much as possible. With all his talk of deselection and now calling a minister with depression 'disturbed' he has to go. He's doing no one any favours. Corbyn is annoyed as he cares hugely about mental health stigmas and hates namecalling like that. Personally I think he should apologise.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
There have been various calls for him to go, Maria Eagle is apparently furious that he was appointed at all. The only people defending him seem to be himself and, err, George Galloway.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
There have been various calls for him to go, Maria Eagle is apparently furious that he was appointed at all. The only people defending him seem to be himself and, err, George Galloway.
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I wouldn't be surprised if he does now. I don't know what he's thinking he will achieve with this behaviour.
 
K

Kuros

Member
John Mann on Daily Politics.

Brillo. Do you have confidence in JCs policy on national defence.

JM. I have total confidence in Hilary Benn.

It's fucking civil war.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Kuros said:
It's fucking civil war.
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It absolutely is, and it is now spilling out into the open. Something has got to give at some point, and I feel that point is coming soon.

We can't underestimate the hole that Labour is in here, yes 250k people voted for Corbyn but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the electorate, as leader he will lead the party to oblivion at the polls. The trade union bill will cut off a lot of Labour funding so they will need to find new revenue streams, a party that looks unelectable won't get funding from business and wealthy private backers.

The next few weeks/months or perhaps years will be the death of either Jeremy Corbyn's career or the Labour party itself.
 
C

curls

Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience 💤
You lot shouldn't take the corporate media so seriously. It is distorting your senses of reality.
 
R

ruttyboy

Member
curls said:
That article was a work of fiction. :/
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Fair enough, it was a misquote, the actiual thing doesn't seem much better though...

"...but, because Britain has precision munitions such as the Brimstone missile, which are in many ways more effective even than some of the things the Americans have, our intervention and our assistance would mean better targeting of the people who should be targeted and fewer civilian casualties."
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So still civilian casualties, just 'fewer'...
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
What is the actual reality then, curls?
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That there's a few centre-right Labour MPs who are incredibly hurt over the overwhelming rejection of them and their policies in the recent leadership election, and are relentlessly trying to stab Corbyn in the back due to this. Really, they should have found a better candidate than Liz Kendall, and put forward some actual policies that aren't just cribbed from the Tories.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I posted about this above but that isn't the case with the current fiasco. The reason this is a problem is because this is the large group of "make it work" Labour MPs who are furious about how the entire thing has been handled, and about how Corbyn simply doesn't seem to realise what being Leader of the Opposition means.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I like how everyone is saying 'Corbyn could never win at the polls!' while simultaneously smearing him as hard as they can.
 
K

Kuros

Member
godelsmetric said:
I like how everyone is saying 'Corbyn could never win at the polls!' while simultaneously smearing him as hard as they can.
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The reason people are saying he can't win at the polls is the evidence of the absolute clusterfuck that is the labour party in the last few days. There hasn't been a lot of smearing going on (as there was with Remembrance Day) but just self inflicted wounds.
 
C

curls

Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience 💤
Nicktendo86 said:
What is the actual reality then, curls?
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Using your own discernment. Not taking at face value what the media spoon-feeds the public.

You have all this information on the internet and from real life at your disposal. You will never develop your own sense of intuition by allowing your reality to be dictated just by what you read/observe in the corporate media.

Don't rely on me to tell you, that is no better than accepting what the media tells you. You could start off by just asking the why? question.

I was told from an ex-MET officer never to believe what the media puts out. That was the first thing stressed to him during training back in the late 60's / 70's.

I feel that the majority of people are being manipulated against their best interests and that makes me very sad :(
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Some interesting number things:

Scottish Parliament voting intention (const.):
SNP: 50% (-5)
LAB: 20% (-)
CON: 18% (+6)
LDEM: 7% (-)
(via Ipsos-Mori / 09 - 16 Nov)

The Tories are fairly high (and they've possibly grabbed votes from the SNP) - why? Referendum and GE success fading? Everyone loves Ruth? Corbyn so left and SNP so nationalist that Tories represent the only meaningful alternative?

Also, this, re GE2015 polling failure:

http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2015/11/new-ncp-analysis-where-the-polls-went-wrong.html/

Not much of the actual data shown but the takeaways are...

- Lib Dem switchers to Labour overstated and Tories understated.
- Ukip threat to Labour understated.
- Suggestions that Tories more socially liberal than previously thought.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Moosichu said:
Just a quick question because I'm unsure and don't know where I have heard this. Haven't their been horrible cases of abuse at Australian immigration centres?
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Several, yes. AusPoliGaf frequently covers all the creepy and horrible stuff happening down there.

Doesn't help that the leader of the opposition is also pretty anti-immigration.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
CyclopsRock said:
Some interesting number things:

Scottish Parliament voting intention (const.):
SNP: 50% (-5)
LAB: 20% (-)
CON: 18% (+6)
LDEM: 7% (-)
(via Ipsos-Mori / 09 - 16 Nov)

The Tories are fairly high (and they've possibly grabbed votes from the SNP) - why? Referendum and GE success fading? Everyone loves Ruth? Corbyn so left and SNP so nationalist that Tories represent the only meaningful alternative?

Also, this, re GE2015 polling failure:

http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2015/11/new-ncp-analysis-where-the-polls-went-wrong.html/

Not much of the actual data shown but the takeaways are...

- Lib Dem switchers to Labour overstated and Tories understated.
- Ukip threat to Labour understated.
- Suggestions that Tories more socially liberal than previously thought.
Click to expand...

Ruth Davidson did come accross as likable on HIGNFY a couple weeks ago.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Moosichu said:
Ruth Davidson did come accross as likable on HIGNFY a couple weeks ago.
Click to expand...
I think she did during the election, too. Identity politics aren't great or anything, but from a purely image POV I think having a funny lesbian as leader probably isn't doing the posho English pig-fuckers stereotype much harm.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
RobotNinjaHornets said:
98% of the 76% turnout of junior doctors have voted to strike.

GG Jeremy Hunt.
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But I thought they were a vocal extremist minority?

Seriously though, I can't believe Hunt is trying to paint the whole situation as a misunderstanding. The thought that Junior Doctors of all people are incapable of understanding a contract is absurd.

IIRC Cameron said that 'Doctors who work legal hours won't have their pay affected', when I believe that one of the main reasons the strikes are happening is that the safegaurds to prevent doctors being worked illegal hours are being removed.
 
C

Calabi

Member
Kuros said:
The reason people are saying he can't win at the polls is the evidence of the absolute clusterfuck that is the labour party in the last few days. There hasn't been a lot of smearing going on (as there was with Remembrance Day) but just self inflicted wounds.
Click to expand...

They did well when they were all together behind Milliband.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Calabi said:
He just wants him to state his true belief's so he can attack them and he doesnt understand that not everyone has to have a fixed set of belief's.

That supposedly brutal attack will do absolutely nothing, its preaching to the choir.
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so do you think that one man's beliefs (in particular, Corbyn) should define party policy? Because the last time I saw he and McDonnell bypassed both PLP and the whole party membership when they last made a big u-turn..
 
K

kmag

Member
If you get a chance watch the response of Jeremy hunt on Sky news to the doctors strike ballot.

He looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights. I was expecting him to start crying towards the end.

I suppose he's been getting stick from the rest of the cabinet. When it's your one job to run down the NHS so your sponsors and cronies can move in, it's probably best not to make it so fucking obvious that that what you're doing.
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
I'll try to dig that out - certainly by a 76% turnout and a 98% no vote, this is the biggest mandate for a strike I can think of for a long, long time.
 
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