UKGAF thread of Politics and Britishness.

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From the Guardian:

The government is to unveil radical proposals that would give football fans first option to buy their clubs when they were put up for sale and require clubs to hand over a stake of up to 25% to supporters' groups.
 
Wes said:
From the Guardian:

The government is to unveil radical proposals that would give football fans first option to buy their clubs when they were put up for sale and require clubs to hand over a stake of up to 25% to supporters' groups.
Click to expand...

I thought that sort of stuff was FA Governed. Since when did the Government have control over that?
 
Wes said:
From the Guardian:

The government is to unveil radical proposals that would give football fans first option to buy their clubs when they were put up for sale and require clubs to hand over a stake of up to 25% to supporters' groups.
Click to expand...

Barca are a fan owned club or something like that aren't they? If i'm not mistaken, then that idea may have some merit, but i don't see how they would enforce the 25% to supporters groups pledge; it would never get through the courts.

Also, this could have negative effects - imagine if Newcastle exercised that right.
 
if i could ever work for a supper market, it would be waitrose. that place has like a really cool business set up, left shit like where everyone owns it and gets part of the bonus.
 
Requiring clubs to hand a stake of up to 25% to fans in recognition of their links with their local community.
Click to expand...

So they will be stealing shares from people?!

Who's gonna pay for them/Will current shareholders get a good price?

Implementing a change-of-control clause that would allow fans a window to put together a takeover of their club if it was up for sale or went into administration.
Click to expand...

What if the club goes bust portsmouth style? Does that mean the fans loose money because of something out of their hands?
 
I have to say. The BNPs views on environment are.. pretty spot on o_o

Am I the next Hitler?

Although.. the destruction of the environment isn't entirely due to immigration like they make it out to be (don't they always?) Over population is simply one of the problems.
Ban on Ritual slaughter and factory farms!? Yes please. I honestly thought this was something the Green Party said.

Immigration is just :lol. BNP - DEPORT DEPORT DEPORT
 
Dabookerman said:
I have to say. The BNPs views on environment are.. pretty spot on o_o

Am I the next Hitler?

Although.. the destruction of the environment isn't entirely due to immigration like they make it out to be (don't they always?) Over population is simply one of the problems.
Ban on Ritual slaughter and factory farms!? Yes please. I honestly thought this was something the Green Party said.
Click to expand...

NAZI
NAZI
NAZI
NAZI
NAZI
 
JC.gif

basically a nazi

edit: babbys being born is the biggest growth factor, not immigrants.
 
Dabookerman said:
I have to say. The BNPs views on environment are.. pretty spot on o_o

Am I the next Hitler?

Although.. the destruction of the environment isn't entirely due to immigration like they make it out to be (don't they always?) Over population is simply one of the problems.
Ban on Ritual slaughter and factory farms!? Yes please. I honestly thought this was something the Green Party said.

Immigration is just :lol. BNP - DEPORT DEPORT DEPORT
Click to expand...

Concern about the damage of overpopulation was originally pioneered by Thomas Malthus, an 18th century clergyman. He was British, hence why the BNP would like his ideas.
 
also, you guys probably know this:

tomorrow on channel 4 at at 8pm there will be live debate between the would be chancellor (alistair darling, george osborne and vince cable) will happen.

you guys better be watching and you better be on this thread so we can chat and comment and talk about how dreamy vince cable is while its all happening!
 
sohois said:
Concern about the damage of overpopulation was originally pioneered by Thomas Malthus, an 18th century clergyman. He was British, hence why the BNP would like his ideas.
Click to expand...

Well it's something I can agree with. Although sticking in BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION.. is a bit false :lol Over population is a world wide problem really, so immigration isn't really the cause of the destruction of the environment ;p

Just finishing this up. See how I fair.
 
Over population isn't a real problem. Population density is. People tend to cluster together into more prosperous areas.

There's plenty of empty places in the world.
 
Based on your answers it looks like you should be voting for Green Party in the next general election.

Issue Parties policies you chose
Democracy Labour
Economy Lib Dems
Education Green Party
Health / NHS Green Party
Click to expand...

Well aint I just a hippy! To be fair though, I didnt think much of the policys listed out by any of them for Health and Education so ended up picking the ones that offended me the least.
 
Took the policies survey...

Crime Conservatives
Democracy Labour
Economy Lib Dems
Education Green Party
Environment Labour
Europe Labour
Health / NHS Green Party
Immigration Green Party
Welfare Lib Dems

More than happy with that. Hoping for a hung parliament, I want electoral reform over everything else since we will get PR ensuring the Lib Dems have a real say in affairs in future.
 
Wes said:
From the Guardian:

The government is to unveil radical proposals that would give football fans first option to buy their clubs when they were put up for sale and require clubs to hand over a stake of up to 25% to supporters' groups.
Click to expand...

Ya see, in theory this is a decent idea. But then you have two main problems with it:

1. If it is introduced, how do you define 'fan'? Can't abramovich et al simply claim to be 'fans' as they buy up the club shares? Needs more definition of what 'fan' and 'fan group' should be.

2. This law is completely unenforceable. If the government pass it and enforce it, FIFA will interpret it as government interference in footballing matter and promptly suspend England and the FA from FIFA and all competitions. FIFA are really big on the no government interference role, they've banned countries before and they will again, we won't be saved just because we're England.
 
Jibril said:
Over population isn't a real problem. Population density is. People tend to cluster together into more prosperous areas.

There's plenty of empty places in the world.
Click to expand...

It is a real problem. Over population is pretty much the same as population density. I mean the Sahara is very empty, but who the hell is gonna move there? The fact is, too many people are having too many kids. Why do you think they put a ban on fucking in China? If they catch you fucking, they execute you! Chinese know what's up!
 
Dabookerman said:
It is a real problem. Over population is pretty much the same as population density. I mean the Sahara is very empty, but who the hell is gonna move there? The fact is, too many people are having too many kids. Why do you think they put a ban on fucking in China? If they catch you fucking, they execute you! Chinese know what's up!
Click to expand...
:lol
 
Over-population is not a problem.....yet. It soon will be.

If you keep the poor poor by doing nothing to address the distrubution of resources which ultimately defines the level of education, the poorest nations will keep on going at it like rabbits.
 
Issue - Parties policies you chose
Crime
Lib Dems​
Democracy
Green Party​
Economy
Lib Dems​
Education
Conservatives​
Environment
Green Party​
Europe
Green Party​
Health / NHS
Conservatives​
Immigration
Green Party​
Welfare
UKIP​
Click to expand...

... Conservatives?
EDIT: UKIP surprised me more on a second thought.
 
Dabookerman said:
It is a real problem. Over population is pretty much the same as population density. I mean the Sahara is very empty, but who the hell is gonna move there? The fact is, too many people are having too many kids. Why do you think they put a ban on fucking in China? If they catch you fucking, they execute you! Chinese know what's up!
Click to expand...

Actually, in the Developed world, UNDER-population is the major problem. Europe, Japan and even the USA's (though to a lesser extent there) populations are all ageing now, and the number of young people is much lower, thus most young people will have to work long to pay the state pensions of the old and infirm who are living much longer due to increased healthcare. There also will be a shortage of people to work at all at this point, thus immigration is essential to fill this labour shortage. The UK and western Europe is ageing further than the East, at this rate immigration and reduction of the welfare state for the old and chronically unemployed is inevitable.

So no over-population isn't a real problem, really the population density balances out if you invest in new business areas (like the gov moving out offices and stuff to the regions here) and take into account that a there will be a large population drop off in the next 30 years in the western world as the old baby boomers finally die off. Morbid but true.
 
Dear Britain,

Please do not elect the Tories, unless you are all millionaires and nobody told me. They have nothing to offer the country and last time they were in power they fucked up the country completely. And instituted a Poll tax. A Poll tax. The most antidemocratic thing ever considered, let alone enacted.

Vote for any of these other clowns, but for god's sake, remember what it was like under Major and Thatcher.

P.S. I understand the choices are shitty, but don't forget that the Tories are evil AND incompetent and quietly represent the interests of an unelected aristocracy that still to a great extent, runs the country.
 
Honestly, I'm not that worried. I don't think the Tories will be elected. It's all just show. People still remember how fucked up shit got when they were in power the last time.

If they do get elected. Hey, I'm still a Dutch citizen baby
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Dear Britain,

Please do not elect the Tories, unless you are all milionaires and nobody told me. They have nothing to offer the country and last time they were in power they fucked up the country completely. And instituted a Poll tax. A Poll tax. The most antidemocratic thing ever considered, let alone enacted.

Vote for any of these other clowns, but for god's sake, remember what it was like under Major and Thatcher.
Click to expand...

This is why we need electoral reform. The Conservatives would never achieve a majority bar some sort of calamity under PR.

This country leans Labour/Lib Dem, shame those voters do not vote strategically anymore like they did in 1997/2001. Iraq War is the reason for that split.
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
Dear Britain,

Please do not elect the Tories, unless you are all millionaires and nobody told me. They have nothing to offer the country and last time they were in power they fucked up the country completely. And instituted a Poll tax. A Poll tax. The most antidemocratic thing ever considered, let alone enacted.

Vote for any of these other clowns, but for god's sake, remember what it was like under Major and Thatcher.

P.S. I understand the choices are shitty, but don't forget that the Tories are evil AND incompetent and quietly represent the interests of an unelected aristocracy that still to a great extent, runs the country.
Click to expand...

THIS. This x 1million and more.

They also were responsible for virtually destroying nearly every city, town and community above Birmingham under Thatcher too, just for another reason there.

Edit: Also The Tory Atlas of the World - WARNING Racism ahoy! NSFW. Still funny though. REMEMBER WHAT THE PHRASE "Same old Tories" MEANS!
 
honestly, when will people just stop voting conservative. I've never heard of a conservative party in the developed world actually doing good things.
 
Crime Labour
Democracy Lib Dems
Economy Green Party
Education Lib Dems
Environment BNP
Europe Green Party
Health / NHS Green Party
Immigration Lib Dems
Welfare Lib Dems

Well well. Sounds about right.
 
Democracy Labour
Economy Lib Dems
Education Conservative
Environment Conservative (Shocking, but it was a toss up between them and what I suspect was the Greens)
Europe Lib Dems
Health / NHS Green Party

Shocked I got two Conservative, though one was a toss up, I agree with them on Education simply because I am the son of a inner city high school teacher and know that all these stories of kids breaking teacher's noses etc. isn't made up or exaggerated. Many come from bad familes with drugs and they are wiley enough to drill out the "I'LL SUE YA HAHAHAHA!" line all the time. Fucking little shits.
 
Tories to block National Insurance rise
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ele...-Tories-to-block-National-Insurance-rise.html

The multi-billion-pound tax pledge, to be made by David Cameron and George Osborne, is intended to open up “clear blue water” between the parties.
Tory insiders said it would form the centrepiece of the Conservative election campaign and make seven out of 10 workers better off.
Click to expand...

By the way, what does everyone think of these posters?
Funny that Labourites are calling them out for being nasty. They aren't even a personal attack on Brown himself, they're attacking his political record.
 
Huzzah.

Based on your answers it looks like you should be voting for... Green Party
Crime - Green Party
Democracy - Lib Dems
Education - Green Party
Health / NHS - Labour

I only vote for the Greens locally. Otherwise I'm yellow. :S

By the way, what does everyone think of these posters?
Funny that Labourites are calling them out for being nasty. They aren't even a personal attack on Brown himself, they're attacking his political record.
Click to expand...

I don't think they're nasty, they're hilariously stilted when you compare it to airbrush-Cameron.
 
jas0nuk said:
Tories to block National Insurance rise
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ele...-Tories-to-block-National-Insurance-rise.html

By the way, what does everyone think of these posters?
Funny that Labourites are calling them out for being nasty. They aren't even a personal attack on Brown himself, they're attacking his political record.
Click to expand...

On the former, they'd have to make money somewhere, and as NI contributions come from both employer and employee and are at a set rate (9-11% earnings), then it doesn't surprise me that Tories would oppose a rise in NI when it would hurt those more well off a little more than those on a more normative wage. Although of course a rise would hurt everyone. I'm just suggesting that their alternative to an NI rise will no doubt be a less progressive tax or initiative.

As for the campaign posters - whether they nail one or two truths or not - the use of his uneasy smile makes it a style of personality politics that I actually hope rubs people up the wrong way.

All of their billboard ads have been a bit shit if you ask me. We Can't Go On Like This / I've never voted Tory before but... / and Gordon's uneasy smirk are all just new and shiny forms of the old New Labour New Danger bullshit... no real policy there, its just AREN'T YOU UNHAPPY WITH BRITAIN FELLOW BRITON? LOOK AT THAT SMILE ISN'T IT A BIT WEIRD? ANYWAY, BLAME LABOUR, THEY DID ALL THE BAD, WE WOULD HAVE DONE INFINITE GOOD INSTEAD, LOOK AT MY VASELINED FACE AND TRUST ME

I'm sure we'll see some responses in kind.
 
I remember the BNP's portfolio a few years back, to support its argument that interracial relationships were the devils work, cited crime statistics of the black community. Basically the blacks would be ruining the gene pool. And to think they were on a show like Question Time. I've met people who say they are not racist and vote for the BNP based on their other quite policies. In my eyes, these people are worst than the ones who are open about their "concerns" of other minority groups.

Raise a finger to them, I say.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
On the former, they'd have to make money somewhere, and as NI contributions come from both employer and employee and are at a set rate (9-11% earnings), then it doesn't surprise me that Tories would oppose a rise in NI when it would hurt those more well off a little more than those on a more normative wage. Although of course a rise would hurt everyone. I'm just suggesting that their alternative to an NI rise will no doubt be a less progressive tax or initiative.
Click to expand...
It would appear that they're only dropping the NI increase on low and middle paid workers, not those earning more than £37k - so nobody can accuse them on helping their "rich banker mates".

As for the posters I agree that since January most of the poster campaigns have been terrible and not really done much for the Conservatives' campaign - in fact they have probably just attracted mockery.

These new ones put Labour, and specifically Brown's record, in the harsh spotlight, something Labour are trying to hide.
6a00d83451b31c69e201310fe96989970c-500wi

Labour are going on the line "Vote for Brown to keep the ship steady" - the posters are attacking the credibility of this tactic.

You can hardly say that Labour aren't into personality politics. Just look at this (2001 election):
PAthague2.gif

That is really as negative and cynical as you can get. No policies, it's just appealing to the core Labour, anti-Tory, anti-Thatcher vote - "or they get in".


I remember the BNP's portfolio a few years back, to support its argument that interracial relationships were the devils work, cited crime statistics of the black community. Basically the blacks would be ruining the gene pool. And to think they were on a show like Question Time. I've met people who say they are not racist and vote for the BNP based on their other quite policies. In my eyes, these people are worst than the ones who are open about their "concerns" of other minority groups.
Click to expand...
The BNP seriously disgust me, and now they are trying to gain seats on the back of less controversial policies. They're also taking huge advantage of the expenses scandal and trying to declare themselves as the only true representatives of the UK. I'd like to see how they'd manage if they ever obtained a majority and formed a government. Apart from throwing out all the asylum seekers what else would they do? xD
 
Yeah they all do it, hence why I said I'm sure we'll see some responses in kind.

Thatcher is a powerful image though. And reminding people that the Conservatives are the party of Thatcher is no bad thing. The tories have no scruples about comparing this labour government to failed labour governments of the past.

People aren't stupid. They will realise that we're in a mountain of debt, but in a world this connected - people are aware of many other countries in similar dire straits. Those of a certain age will remember and contrast this recession with the two preceeding it, they'll remember the lack of compassion and gratitude as people lost their jobs, they'll take into account the global dynamic of this one, and the context of it, and they won't wholly blame the Prime Minister in the way that these posters are doing. They'll read the intentions of such assertions like an open book. And they're fully aware of hard times on the horizon, but they equally know that our AAA status is in no danger, and that this election is one of many opportunities: yes they can punish labours mistakes, and yes they could even vote Tory, but some will look past the bullshit and think about who is offering what in terms of ideology and policy as to how we should proceed from here. On that score, the Conservatives aren't the "change" they're claiming to be.

I don't have confidence that people will actually vote for change anyway.. The Liberal Democrats would be a real and demonstrably significant change and a nice statement to our two favourite bickering parties, a hung parliament might bring change too... a landslide for the Tories? Thats just a new and depressing chapter in a two-party system. I know what I'm hoping for!

Hopefully they continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


I'd suggest doing something OTHER than spoiling your vote but still...
saatchi_voting_poster.jpg
 
Subliminal said:
http://voteforpolicies.org.uk

wow. This one seems different.

I'm Lib Dem and I got Green/Tory
Click to expand...

Holee shit.

UKIP: 44.44%
Green Party 33.33%
Conservatives 11.11%
BNP 11.11%

Crime - UKIP
Democracy - Green Party
Economy - UKIP
Education - Conservatives
Environment - Green Party
Europe - UKIP
Health / NHS - Green Party
Immigration - UKIP
Welfare - BNP

I'VE BECOME EVERYTHING I HATE!
vhewcy.gif


Stalinist in first two years of university, Scottish National Party supporter since 2005. I'm pissed off the survey didn't include the SNP, but they're irrelevant south of Berwick so I'll let it slide.
 
sohois said:
Barca are a fan owned club or something like that aren't they? If i'm not mistaken, then that idea may have some merit, but i don't see how they would enforce the 25% to supporters groups pledge; it would never get through the courts.

Also, this could have negative effects - imagine if Newcastle exercised that right.
Click to expand...

Explain? :lol

Though there is a supporters group trying to buy Newcastle, no one really takes them seriously. The romantic idea that the fans can own their local team again ala Barca is never going to happen. The reason Real and Barca can be fan owned, then hold an election every 4 years for a new president, is that they are an attractive successful team.

They attract new investment and new owners with money, even then its pretty much a rotation of a handful of people. Man U have supporters on their board, it didn't stop Glazers from taking over the club. A fan rep in the board room (even with 25% stake in the club) would do nothing.

Think this is a cheap election ploy to appeal to those who might not usually vote.

--
EDIT:

Interesting about the spoil your vote post above, there was a podcast saying that they were going to spoil their vote as they had no confidence in any of the partys. They said while it was stupid to do, they wouldn't have to do that, if there was a 'Non of the Above' option, at least something to show that some people aren't happy with the set up of Government across the board.

Chinner said:
JC.gif

basically a nazi

edit: babbys being born is the biggest growth factor, not immigrants.
Click to expand...

Clearly we need to start deporting babies. I also wonder what Jeremy Clarkson would think if he were to stumble across this thread and see that avatar with 'Nazi' underneath it :lol

Its worrying to think that the BNP are probably going to have their most successful campaign ever. Its not because they've put up a good argument, its because people are totally disenfranchised with the whole government.

I'm probably just lumping people into a group (BNP style), but I can't imagine, if they went out to vote, the Jeremy Kyle generation not voting for the BNP.
 
the problem is that nobody is running or actually teaching the general population about positive aspects of immigration. but nah, even the most pro-immigration groups promote negativeness by always talking about caps.
 
Here's my results, only the one UKIP for me:

Conservatives
22.22%
Green Party
22.22%
Lib Dems
33.33%
UKIP
11.11%
Labour
11.11%

Crime: Conservatives
Democracy: Green Party
Economy: Lib Dems
Education: Conservatives
Environment: UKIP
Europe: Green Party
Health / NHS: Labour
Immigration: Lib Dems
Welfare: Lib Dems
 
Here's the breakdown of your results
UKIP 25.00%
Conservatives 25.00%
Lib Dems 50.00%


Based on your answers it looks like you should be voting for
The Lib Dems
in the next general election

Issue Parties policies you chose
Economy UKIP
Education Conservatives
Europe Lib Dems
Health / NHS Lib Dems

Slightly scared on the UKIP thing, now all i need is to get the lib dems to form in northern ireland
 
Chinner said:
the problem is that nobody is running or actually teaching the general population about positive aspects of immigration. but nah, even the most pro-immigration groups promote negativeness by always talking about caps.
Click to expand...

Speaking as the grandson of an immigrant I'll always agree with this kind of statement. Then again he was one of those cool white countries (the Netherlands) that all the right wingers will break their own rules for so he gets a free ride with his funny accent and cheese-eating ways.
 
industrian said:
Holee shit.

UKIP: 44.44%
Green Party 33.33%
Conservatives 11.11%
BNP 11.11%

Crime - UKIP
Democracy - Green Party
Economy - UKIP
Education - Conservatives
Environment - Green Party
Europe - UKIP
Health / NHS - Green Party
Immigration - UKIP
Welfare - BNP

I'VE BECOME EVERYTHING I HATE!
vhewcy.gif


Stalinist in first two years of university, Scottish National Party supporter since 2005. I'm pissed off the survey didn't include the SNP, but they're irrelevant south of Berwick so I'll let it slide.
Click to expand...

YOU SUPPORT ANGLO SAXON RULE.. RACIST :lol!

I just realized, regarding environment. The BNP are the only ones who don't seem to be talking about cleaner and more efficient energy, and cleaner environment.

It's a shame you can't pick and choose certain policies.
 
Dabookerman said:
YOU SUPPORT ANGLO SAXON RULE.. RACIST :lol!

I just realized, regarding environment. The BNP are the only ones who don't seem to be talking about cleaner and more efficient energy, and cleaner environment.

It's a shame you can't pick and choose certain policies.
Click to expand...

I think I was subconsciously replacing "leave the EU" with "leave the Union" on most of my choices. Yeah, that was probably it.
 
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