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[Azure J]

Give Viper a flight mode, it's canon!

On a more serious note, after watching Flocker just now on the VxG stream, I can't believe I never asked what the current state of Zero's lightning crossing up in the corner was. Are we keeping it or removing it/fixing it?

 

[Karsticles]

Give Viper a flight mode, it's canon!

On a more serious note, after watching Flocker just now on the VxG stream, I can't believe I never asked what the current state of Zero's lightning crossing up in the corner was. Are we keeping it or removing it/fixing it?

Lightning still crosses up.

 

[Dahbomb]

I can't believe I never asked what the current state of Zero's lightning crossing up in the corner was. Are we keeping it or removing it/fixing it?

We are keeping that because he already has enough nerfs and will be doing much less damage now.

 

[Azure J]

We are keeping that because he already has enough nerfs and will be doing much less damage now.

Gotcha.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Hahaha, so dramatic. Very GB.

I wanted Shuma-Gorath to be Sentinel size with 6 command grab inputs that, together, covered the entire goddamn screen.

You can use them all at once, but you have to plug in an extra controller for each limb.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea MODOK definitely needs a cr.L buff, specifically so that it can hit crouching characters.

His st.M should be 3 hits instead of 5. The number of hits sort of scales his combos kinda bad.

 

[Karsticles]

Yea MODOK definitely needs a cr.L buff, specifically so that it can hit crouching characters.

His st.M should be 3 hits instead of 5. The number of hits sort of scales his combos kinda bad.

Aren't all 5 of the hits 1 durability? I think he might use that to take out fireballs sometimes.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Regardless of the stage picked, characters will sometimes be forced to fight in Chaos Dimension. Here, Shuma-Gorath has infinite meter.

Chaos Dimension in MSH didn't even have corners. Shuma didn't give a fuck.

 

[Dahbomb]

Eh I doubt it's the primary anti zoning move for MODOK, all the move does his scale his combo. I guess you could do like 3 hits but 2 points each or something.

Also I am watching a video on MODOK and it says that powered up HPB LOSES durability as compared to the weak one?

What the fuck is this?

I literally know nothing about MODOK. He has so much weird shit. I didn't even know that using specials in the air lowers the amount of Hyper Battering Ram inputs he can do.

 

[Karsticles]

Eh I doubt it's the primary anti zoning move for MODOK, all the move does his scale his combo. I guess you could do like 3 hits but 2 points each or something.

Also I am watching a video on MODOK and it says that powered up HPB LOSES durability as compared to the weak one?

What the fuck is this?

I literally know nothing about MODOK. He has so much weird shit. I didn't even know that using specials in the air lowers the amount of Hyper Battering Ram inputs he can do.

Maybe it's time to tweet Moonz.

I don't think scaling is a problem in MODOK combos. He's one of the game's best reset characters as it is.

 

[QisTopTier]

Did we do Felicia yet? I want to triple the range of her command grab

 

[Dahbomb]

Apparently cr.M does not OTG small characters in the corner. You have to back dash first and then do it. Seems like a minor annoyance that could potentially lose a match.

 

[Karsticles]

Did we do Felicia yet? I want to triple the range of her command grab

No and no.

Apparently cr.M does not OTG small characters in the corner. You have to back dash first and then do it. Seems like a minor annoyance that could potentially lose a match.

Dormammu has to microwalk back every time he wants to OTG in the corner. It's not a big deal.

 

[onionfrog]

Did we do Felicia yet? I want to triple the range of her command grab

Haha, no we haven't.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Eh I doubt it's the primary anti zoning move for MODOK, all the move does his scale his combo. I guess you could do like 3 hits but 2 points each or something.

Also I am watching a video on MODOK and it says that powered up HPB LOSES durability as compared to the weak one?

What the fuck is this?

I literally know nothing about MODOK. He has so much weird shit. I didn't even know that using specials in the air lowers the amount of Hyper Battering Ram inputs he can do.

Yup, I found out all that mid match....made me rage. After you do three specials in the air you can't even do his supers. But I suppose that goes for most the cast, right?

 

[Karsticles]

Yup, I found out all that mid match....made me rage. After you do three specials in the air you can't even do his supers. But I suppose that goes for most the cast, right?

It was a change made in Ultimate. That's why Nooneyouknow thought Morrigan was worse in Ultimate. She used to be able to finish combos with 3 Shadow Blades into 3 Finishing Showers for still shit damage, but it was there. Then it got nerfed.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think the following MODOK changes should be implemented:

*Cr.L vertical hit box extended so it can hit most crouching characters
*Using specials in the air does not limit the number of Hyper Battering Rams MODOK can do
*Durability of HPB does not decrease with increased levels of understanding

 

[Fringot]

There's a really good Ironman played by Mono on the VxG tournament stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/capcomfighters

A lot of comments about how Ironman's speed needs to be returned to that of MvC3.

 

[Karsticles]

I tweeted Moons to ask what should be changed with MODOK:
https://twitter.com/xMOONS/status/360877766276677633

I think MODOK, like Magneto and Wolverine, is just really well balanced. We shouldn't mess with too much stuff on him.

I think the following MODOK changes should be implemented:

*Cr.L vertical hit box extended so it can hit most crouching characters

I don't think it's supposed to be used this way. I think it's a low anti-air.

*Using specials in the air does not limit the number of Hyper Battering Rams MODOK can do

This is a system change, like I said. It got nerfed in Ultimate.

*Durability of HPB does not decrease with increased levels of understanding

Are we certain of this?

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't think it's supposed to be used this way. I think it's a low anti-air.

His anti air is his st.L. He has absolutely nothing to reliably hit short characters up close. His St.M misses even more, a full character can fit in between the St.M and himself. The only other moves that can hit small characters are his slow ass low H attack and his cr.M.. but aren't fast enough for short characters. His cr.M is also unreliable against short characters.

This is a system change, like I said. It got nerfed in Ultimate.

No I mean he can still use the hyper after 2 specials in the air like everyone but unlike everyone else his hyper is nerfed with the amount of specials you do. Like you get lowered number of Battering Rams in the air if you used specials before the hyper.

Are we certain of this?

http://youtu.be/MSr8L-SvEqY?t=4m21s

I had to look at it 3 times to confirm.

 

[Karsticles]

His anti air is his st.L. He has absolutely nothing to reliably hit short characters up close. His St.M misses even more, a full character can fit in between the cr.M and himself. The only other moves that can hit small characters are his slow ass low H attack and his cr.M.. but aren't fast enough for short characters. His cr.M is also unreliable against short characters.

K.

No I mean he can still use the hyper after 2 specials in the air like everyone but unlike everyone else his hyper is nerfed with the amount of specials you do. Like you get lowered number of Battering Rams in the air if you used specials before the hyper.

Ohhhh.

http://youtu.be/MSr8L-SvEqY?t=4m21s

I had to look at it 3 times to confirm.

I'd like to see this used against Stalking Flare at different levels for confirmation. That should be an easy way to tell, since HPB always burns through Stalking Flare.
M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
*Big Barrier now negates high priority projectiles.
*Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox extended lower slightly.
*Hyper Psionic Blaster damage reworked; scaling with levels of understanding below:
0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)
*c.L hitbox now hits crouching characters near M.O.D.O.K.
*Using specials in the air no longer reduces the number of hits Hyper Battering Ram will be capable of.
*Hyper Psionic Blaster’s beam durability is now consistent across all levels of understanding.

Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, b.H

 

[smurfx]

missiles better disappear if doom is hit. oh boo hoo he loses the strongest assist in the game but he still has 2 other really good assists.

 

[Karsticles]

missiles better disappear if doom is hit. oh boo hoo he loses the strongest assist in the game but he still has 2 other really good assists.

That's just not going to happen. It's almost impossible to protect the assist for its entire duration.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

K.

Ohhhh.


I'd like to see this used against Stalking Flare at different levels for confirmation. That should be an easy way to tell, since HPB always burns through Stalking Flare.
M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.
*Big Barrier now negates high priority projectiles.
*Psionic Blaster vertical hitbox extended lower slightly.
*Hyper Psionic Blaster damage reworked; scaling with levels of understanding below:
0: 8,000 X 34 (177,100)
1: 8,000 X 40 (201,100)
2: 8,000 X 50 (241,100)
3: 8,000 X 58 (273,100)
4: 8,000 X 68 (313,100)
5: 8,000 X 76 (345,100)
6: 8,000 X 85 (381,100)
7: 8,000 X 100 (441,100)
*c.L hitbox now hits crouching characters near M.O.D.O.K.
*Using specials in the air no longer reduces the number of hits Hyper Battering Ram will be capable of.
*Hyper Psionic Blaster’s beam durability is now consistent across all levels of understanding.

Assists: Psionic Blast M, Balloon Bomb H, b.H

Using it against stalking flare is how I know it loses. I was down to modok and the other guy only had dorm left and he did a stalking flare and I was like lol I got this. Nope! Flare ate my entire fucking super

 

[Dahbomb]

I think those changes are enough. This character is pretty damn good... no amount of buffs (unless super derp) would change the fact that he is weird as hell and will always get under picked.

You should probably change the "b+H" assist to write as "Barrier" because some people would get confused over it.

My guess on to why the durability changes is because the number of hits changes on the hyper.

 

[Karsticles]

Using it against stalking flare is how I know it loses. I was down to modok and the other guy only had dorm left and he did a stalking flare and I was like lol I got this. Nope! Flare ate my entire fucking super

You mean at high LOU? Because I know HPB wins normally.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

You mean at high LOU? Because I know HPB wins normally.

Yes I was fully powered from the TAC I did before I lost Dante. Modok/Dante/sentinel....don't sleep on it

 

[Fringot]

I did a quick sketch several days ago of a possible new move for Thor that might help him out as well as compliment to his fighting style.

The move should have OTG properties and could be an assist move. It would definitely be very useful for picking opponents off the ground to further combos. Vertical Mighty Hammer would be a good tool to use after having air grabbed someone for a conversion.

Mighty Spark can be canceled into Mighty Hammer{before the lightning is launched when its charging up} to give it electric properties as well as multiple hits.

Mighty Mjolnir is a hyper version of Mighty Hammer, it would look like Mighty Strike except Mjolnir by itself. If it could be level 1, then its the hyper Thor does during a team hyper combination if Mighty Hammer is his assist.

Also, an interesting thing would be that Mighty Hammer can cancel out its cooldown if you input into Mighty Strike within several frames of the hammer returning to Thor hand, so that you can do Mighty Hammer into Mighty Strike combos.

 

[Dahbomb]

We can't use new moves for these suggestions.

 

["God's Beard!"]

M.O.D.O.K.:
*M.O.D.O.K. automatically powers his assists up through levels of understanding when able to.

I asked Seth Killian if this worked before Vanilla released at the prerelease tournament. His answer made me sad :-(

I was so psyched for MODOK and Dormammu back then. I used Arthur/Wesker/Ammy at the tournament though lol

Gold Bottle assist still da bess

 

[Dahbomb]

I noticed that Trish has 11 changes. Probably need to remove one.


Trish:
*Trick “Hopscotch” travel time and hitstun increased; now OTGs.
*Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
*High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
*Duet Pain now hits OTG.
*Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; hitboxes widened; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
*Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
*Minimum air dash height reduced from 8 to 7 frames.
*j.S hitbox increased for cross-ups.
*Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
*Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
*Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.

Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”


Personally I think either minimum air dash height or j.S better cross up need to go. Neither are changes she actually needs.

 

[Azure J]

That feel when you do the Cloud/cjaycr "all or nothing" mixup twice on two different dark anchors making them irrelevant in a set.

:')

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I did a quick sketch several days ago of a possible new move for Thor that might help him out as well as compliment to his fighting style.

The move should have OTG properties and could be an assist move. It would definitely be very useful for picking opponents off the ground to further combos. Vertical Mighty Hammer would be a good tool to use after having air grabbed someone for a conversion.

Mighty Spark can be canceled into Mighty Hammer{before the lightning is launched when its charging up} to give it electric properties as well as multiple hits.

Mighty Mjolnir is a hyper version of Mighty Hammer, it would look like Mighty Strike except Mjolnir by itself. If it could be level 1, then its the hyper Thor does during a team hyper combination if Mighty Hammer is his assist.

Also, an interesting thing would be that Mighty Hammer can cancel out its cooldown if you input into Mighty Strike within several frames of the hammer returning to Thor hand, so that you can do Mighty Hammer into Mighty Strike combos.

Haha, this is good. Unfortunately no new moves that require new animations. Though I think everyone would agree that he should've had a hammer throw move

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah, Thor should have a hammer throw that causes a wall bounce, and it would be cool, but alas...

I noticed that Trish has 11 changes. Probably need to remove one.


Trish:
*Trick “Hopscotch” travel time and hitstun increased; now OTGs.
*Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
*High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
*Duet Pain now hits OTG.
*Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; hitboxes widened; durability increased to 4 on each bolt.
*Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
*Minimum air dash height reduced from 8 to 7 frames.
*j.S hitbox increased for cross-ups.
*Round Trip durability increased to 8; no longer loses its hitbox after encountering any opposing projectile.
*Untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
*Trick “Peekaboo” causes a set amount of hitstun (60 frames); decreases by 10 frames for every use in a combo.

Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”


Personally I think either minimum air dash height or j.S better cross up need to go. Neither are changes she actually needs.

I'll remove the j.S change.

I added another change to Tron Bonne upon Rikir's request; I'm sure you'll all approve:
Tron Bonne:
*j.H returned to Vanilla status.
*Servbot Takeout can be X-Factor canceled on whiff.
*Gustaff Fire is now upper body invincible.
*Servbot Launcher recovery reduced to 20; assist version fires all 3 Servbots one after another.
*Beacon Bomb recovery reduced to 10 frames; if the Beacon Bomb hits an assist, a servbot is now launched and attached to the assist character.
*Servbot Takeout sends servbots onto the screen regardless of whether the beacon hit.
*Bandit Boulder now travels full screen; hitstun increased to allow solo combos off of throws.
*Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
*Shakedown Mixer now leads to full combos.

Assists: Gustaff Fire, Bonne Strike H (fully mashed), Servbot Launcher

 

[smurfx]

can you guys do haggar and taskmaster next?

 

[Dahbomb]

Change looks fine to me.

I think we are more or less complete with this batch of characters.

can you guys do haggar and taskmaster next?

You going to be unavailable any time soon? I can do them right now if you are going to be away later.

 

[QisTopTier]

can you guys do haggar and taskmaster next?

Taskmaster-
Always shoots 3 arrows at the speed of the original single shot
Can no longer cross up after jousting in the corner

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[Tirael]

We're nearing 500 pages, and that's the limit, right? Discussing these changes has made this thread go blazing fast. We're going to have to come up with a subtitle for the new thread.

I'm partial to "Can't Stop the Hype Train!" That is probably a bad idea, because two days after we adopt it, Capcom will surely come out with an official press release telling all Mahvel fans to eat shit and die. That would invalidate our thread title.

 

[Karsticles]

IMO, it's good to do one character that a few people play each time. So something like Haggar/Firebrand/X-23/Viewtiful Joe

A nice mix so everyone has something to be interested in. This last batch was really boring.

We're nearing 500 pages, and that's the limit, right? Discussing these changes has made this thread go blazing fast. We're going to have to come up with a subtitle for the new thread.

I'm partial to "Can't Stop the Hype Train!" That is probably a bad idea, because two days after we adopt it, Capcom will surely come out with an official press release telling all Mahvel fans to eat shit and die. That would invalidate our thread title.

Dahbomb and I both voted for:
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch.

 

[Dahbomb]

Nothing stops this patch

That's the thread title. I don't care if Capcom shits on the dream... nothing stops the momentum.

This last batch was really boring.

It was boring because people don't play these characters. I did a couple of God's Beards characters because he has lost momentum on the patch and thought he would give some final real input before leaving.

Next set of characters:

Haggar
Taskmaster
Firebrand
Hsien Ko

 

[QisTopTier]

IMO, it's good to do one character that a few people play each time. So something like Haggar/Firebrand/X-23/Viewtiful Joe

A nice mix so everyone has something to be interested in. This last batch was really boring.

Karst you are going to make it so Firebrands ground fireballs recover at the speed of his wall hop ones arnt you?

Spoiler

I actually dont see why not

 

["God's Beard!"]

Haggar
2H puts haggar into a true hard knockdown state, not a special state where he can be hit by any move

Hsien Ko
bombs are now a separate, special-cancelable command normal

 

[Karsticles]

Nothing stops this patch

That's the thread title. I don't care if Capcom shits on the dream... nothing stops the momentum.


It was boring because people don't play these characters. I did a couple of God's Beards characters because he has lost momentum on the patch and thought he would give some final real input before leaving.

Next set of characters:

Haggar
Taskmaster
Firebrand
Hsien Ko

Excellent list.

Karst you are going to make it so Firebrands ground fireballs recover at the speed of his wall hop ones arnt you?

Spoiler

I actually dont see why not

My Firebrand changes largely depend on what happens to his unblockable. Right now, he's bad but it's balanced by him having so many unblockable setups. If folks want to nerf the unblockable into the ground, then he basically needs to become Zero v2.0, because that's his gameplay style, but inferior.

Taskmaster:

Assists: Aim Master L (Hold), Aim Master H (Hold), Charging Star

Hsien-ko:
*Air dash speed increased three-fold.
*Senpu Bu now dash and j.S-cancelable.; startup reduced by 10 frames (all versions).
*Time bomb item throw remapped to qcf.S.
*Item throw durability increased to 3.
*Henkyo Ki now +5 on block at close range; active frames increased by 50% (all levels).
*Canceled ground dash now always behaves the same as her plink dash.
*Ground attacks dash cancelable.
*Ground dash invincible on frames 10 – 25; dash takes 30 total frames to complete; distance unchanged.
*Houten Geki now leads to full combos.
*Walk speed increased to Morrigan levels.
*c.H now OTGs and is jump-cancelable.

Assists: Senpu Bu L, Henkyo Ki H, Anki Hou S

Haggar:
*f.H and j.f+H do 15% chip damage.
*Rapid Fire Fist now combos when fully mashed.
*c.H now recovers in 10 frames.
*Violent Axe cross-up is now better represented visually.
*Giant Haggar Press recovery reduced to 0; causes a hard knockdown; links into itself.

Assists: Double Lariat, Violent Axe H, c.H

Firebrand:
*Wall cling fireballs no longer leave Firebrand prone until landing.
*Hell Spitfire H reduced by half in startup and recovery; soft knockdown, only one on the screen at a time.
*Hell Spitfire H no longer leaves Firebrand prone until landing when performed in the air.
*Luminous Body no longer automatically puts him in Flight mode unless you hold S during the cinematic screen.
*Chaos Tide is now a level 2; all inputs cause the helper to perform his H attack.
*Dark Fire hitstun increased significantly.
*qcb.S now causes Firebrand to rise into the air further like Hell’s Elevator L while already in the air; no higher than maximum superjump height.
*Throw follow-ups now more consistent in all situations.
*Devil’s Claw startup reduced to 10 frames.

Assists: Hell Spitfire L, Hell Spitfire H, Demon Charge M

 

[Dahbomb]

Don't change the Taskmaster arrows, people like to mix them up and even use the Diagonal ones for certain teams (saw it even at EVO). Charging Star wouldn't really make a great assist either (it's basically a worse Charging Star of Cap and no one used that assist) so it's better not to change it.

 

[Karsticles]

Don't change the Taskmaster arrows, people like to mix them up and even use the Diagonal ones for certain teams (saw it even at EVO). Charging Star wouldn't really make a great assist either (it's basically a worse Charging Star of Cap and no one used that assist) so it's better not to change it.

Really? I've never seen the M version used.

 

[Dahbomb]

Really? I've never seen the M version used.

Yeah I saw someone use it because it worked for their team in terms of combo extension. I forgot the team but I specifically remembered that assist and even made a comment about it in the EVO thread.

For Taskmaster, the Swordmaster series hit where he swings his sword in an arc that should be an overhead.

Also in general his Swordmaster stuff needs dramatic improvement because it's one of the worst collection of moves in the game. I would like improvements to his physical counters too.

 

[QisTopTier]

Honestly I think they should ditch the whole unblockable shit with firebrand and up his zoning game. It's decent already due to the wall cling cancel, but idk I feel like he shouldn't have to resort to that. In his own games he's mostly a projectile based character. It wouldn't even be that big of a deal if his melee damage stayed a bit low if his zoning game went up.

It would make sense for zero to be stronger melee range and firebrand to be stronger at a distance to keep them different enough while being the same character type.

Also in general his Swordmaster stuff needs dramatic improvement because it's one of the worst collection of moves in the game. I would like improvements to his physical counters too.

It's ass because there is an unblockable in it. Honestly keep it how it is now, but make the unblockable stagger on hit so he can do a fallow up combo.

If you dont want to go that route make it so he has enough forward momentum after the first hit to negate pushblock BUT remove the unblockable from it the headbutt can still stagger

 

[Professor Beef]

My vindictive nerf is to swap Task's health with Sentinel, give Shield Skills 10% of the range it used to have, and reduce the hitbox on it.

My reasonable nerfs are to reduce his health to...I dunno, 1m? Also to reduce the distance of Shield Skills, but not by nearly as much. The former more than the latter. Task doesn't really need any buffs or nerfs aside from health tbh

 

[SolarPowered]

+Pendulum cancels with "S" input (all versions) and results in VSav air momentum. Pendulum (all versions) can also be special canceled into henkyo-ki (all versions)

+Hsien-Ko's air momentum continues when you cancel an airdash with a jumping normal like in VSav

+Change command grab motion to HCB and change input for Henkyo-ki to QCB motion (all versions) like in VSav

+Buff all Anki-hou items to 3 low projectile points and map the bomb (with hitbox) to "S" button. Every fourth item is a dizzy. All dizzies have 5 low projectile durability points.

+Anki-hou can be special canceled into henkyo-Ki (all versions) and vice versa. Only works on the ground

+More frame advantage off standing, air and command throw. For post throw combos

+Crouching Heavy has OTG property. It travels slightly faster and farther

+Buff normal air/ground dash and walk speeds by 10%

+Reduce startup of Rimoukon to 10 frames. Her red health begins to drain slowly if she is hit on point

+Lower start up of Chireitou to 20+3. It should also carry both point and assist characters on hit

+Improve horizontal hitbox on standing and jumping launcher

Bold are ultra important

 

[Dahbomb]

Taskmaster nerfs

Why are you nerfing a character who isn't even that top tier? He's one of the most honest characters in the game.

I can agree to health decrease of Task to 1 million but nothing more. Sentinel health is getting buffed, no need to arbitrarily swap health numbers.


Hsien Ko getting health drain on Gold Armor? LOL WHAT???