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[Vashetti]

So is it OK to buy one of those new Sonys now or should I basically wait?

e.g. http://store.sony.com/75-class-74.5...-27-catid-XBR-4K-Ultra-HD-TVs?_t=pfm=category

Doesn't do HDR as far as I can see.

Wait.

Edit: Oh! My mistake, I believe it does do HDR. Up to you then I suppose, but I'm not getting an LCD/LED 4KTV. I'm waiting for OLED for that "wow" feeling when I finally upgrade.

Edit 2: HDR is coming to this set via a firmware update sometime over the summer.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

RIP DVDs.

DVDs aren't going anywhere.

When I'm in shops looking at the latest movie releases on blu-ray there is always a DVD version.

 

[Vashetti]

DVDs aren't going anywhere.

When I'm in shops looking at the latest movie releases on blu-ray there is always a DVD version.

You do have to wonder though, where is the shelf space going to come from for these Ultra HD discs in stores?

 

[Lupercal]

You do have to wonder though, where is the shelf space going to come from for these Ultra HD discs in stores?

The Wii U section ?

 

[biggersmaller]

DVDs aren't going anywhere.

When I'm in shops looking at the latest movie releases on blu-ray there is always a DVD version.

Yup. My wife still buys DVDs because she can find movies she likes for $5 and doesn't care about BD...or whether it's even widescreen (though those are thankfully been out of stores these last couple of years). She really puts that meticulously purchase 65" TV and surround sound to good use.

Same goes for my parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents and siblings. My mother in-law asked for a replacement VHS/DVD combo player for Christmas last year.

 

[JoeyJungle]

Essentially downsampled. Current blu-ray disks support 1080p.

Yes, mastered at 4K but the file on the disc is 1080p.

Current Blu-ray discs are not capable of storing 4K video. This is a new specification, but will be seen as an extension of the current Blu-ray format.

The latter. They are nicely mastered though.

Thanks!

 

[AstroLad]

Doesn't do HDR as far as I can see.

Wait.

Edit: Oh! My mistake, I believe it does do HDR. Up to you then I suppose, but I'm not getting an LCD/LED 4KTV. I'm waiting for OLED for that "wow" feeling when I finally upgrade.

Edit 2: HDR is coming to this set via a firmware update sometime over the summer.

Thanks for the insights. I might wait as well then. What's the timeline for OLED?

 

[diaspora]

Thanks for the insights. I might wait as well then. What's the timeline for OLED?

never

 

[Vashetti]

Thanks for the insights. I might wait as well then. What's the timeline for OLED?

OLED 4K is already out, just the prices are a little crazy right now.

Just do some searches for 4K OLED and you'll find loads

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

I said when I upgraded everything from DVD to blu ray that I wasn't going to upgrade again a 2nd time. A lot of stuff (both TVs and movies) hasn't even hit regular blu ray yet. Plus blu ray is still gorgeous for home viewing, most people will have between 40 to 65 inch TVs as their main television.

I expect this Ultra HD 4k will be a flop just like HD-DVD and home 3D was. The regular movie buying public can't even tell the difference between DVD and blu (I've had numerous friends/family tell me that

The Wii U section ?

LOL, really though it'll be the Vita section.

 

[MrJames]

Thanks for the insights. I might wait as well then. What's the timeline for OLED?

1080p 55" OLED can be had now for about $2,500. UHD OLED can be had now with a 65" curved model for $9,000 or wait for the 65" flat model later this year estimated at around $8,000. The question is whether the current OLED models will support HDR. LG hasn't officially said yes. They said they would have an HDR OLED solution to show off at IFA 2015 in September.

 

[Vashetti]

I said when I upgraded everything from DVD to blu ray that I wasn't going to upgrade again a 2nd time. A lot of stuff (both TVs and movies) hasn't even hit regular blu ray yet. Plus blu ray is still gorgeous for home viewing, most people will have between 40 to 65 inch TVs as their main television.

I expect this Ultra HD 4k will be a flop just like HD-DVD and home 3D was. The regular movie buying public can't even tell the difference between DVD and blu (I've had numerous friends/family tell me that

This is the next resolution standard, not a fad, the next step up from 1080p. Do you think in the next 50 years, people will still have 1080p screens because they 'can't see the difference'?

They might not be buying Ultra HD Blu-ray discs specifically, but they will be accessing some sort of 'Ultra HD' content.

 

[terrisus]

I know I'm late responding to this, but:

I like "4K" more than "Ultra HD". Sounds too 90's.

"4K" is about as "'90s" as it gets.
It basically screams "Y2K x 2"

Spoiler

(Yes, I'm aware K=Kilo=Thousand is not just a '90s thing. But, that's the image it conjures up for me)

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Time to buy Baraka again.

 

[CadetMahoney]

what is the framerate options with this?

Can you choose different standards? Like a company can publish something at 23.976 fps then another thing at 60fps?

120fps?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

We don't know yet. They said the spec supports HFR, but they did not clarify at what resolution and what the framerate will be. It could be limited to 1080p 3D with 48 or 60 fps. Which would make a lot of sense, because "The Hobbit" was released in 2K 3D HFR with 48 fps. "Avatar 2" is rumored to support either 48 or 60 fps HFR 3D. Also the spec doesn't support 4K 3D (because there are no 4K 3D movies), so there won't be 4K 3D HFR.

 

[Vashetti]

We don't know yet. They said the spec supports HFR, but they did not clarify at what resolution and what the framerate will be. It could be limited to 1080p 3D with 48 or 60 fps. Which would make a lot of sense, because "The Hobbit" was released in 2K 3D HFR with 48 fps. "Avatar 2" is rumored to support either 48 or 60 fps HFR 3D. Also the spec doesn't support 4K 3D (because there are no 4K 3D movies), so there won't be 4K 3D HFR.

I think this is more to do with the storage capacity. 4K 3D would likely obliterate 100GB.

 

[diehard]

should just wait until the storage capacity is enough for whatever is needed.

We have reached 1.33 TB per platter on HDD's. Step up your game, optical.

 

[NekoFever]

I think this is more to do with the storage capacity. 4K 3D would likely obliterate 100GB.

Nah. 1080p 3D doesn't usually come close to filling a 50GB disc. I know because I've been ripping mine. They're using a much more efficient codec and four times the resolution doesn't necessarily mean four times the file size even if they weren't.

 

[SliChillax]

1080p 55" OLED can be had now for about $2,500. UHD OLED can be had now with a 65" curved model for $9,000 or wait for the 65" flat model later this year estimated at around $8,000. The question is whether the current OLED models will support HDR. LG hasn't officially said yes. They said they would have an HDR OLED solution to show off at IFA 2015 in September.

Those better be 21:9 with those prices.

 

[hesido]

I remember I assumed a Tom's Hardware analyst was clueless more than 10 years ago for saying "....until displays support HDR". It didn't make sense to me, would we need to squint our eyes when the camera turns to a light source for example? The only way I thought the extra bit-depth would be used for better colour gradients to fix banding and not for going for whiter than white, if you had a "whiter" than white, it would be the new white for higher overall contrast, I thought.

I still wonder how the HDR would be interpreted by displays! Has anyone ever laid eyes on an HDR display ever? Is there currently such a display?

 

[DonMigs85]

66GB for a dual-layer disc isn't much more than today's regular BDs. But then h.265 will be used right?

 

[Keric]

I think I'll be getting a Vizio M80-C3 this holiday season. Man I hope Interstellar and Mad Max make it out this year too.

 

[KidJr]

Maybe it's just me and my eyes but I went the selfridges stand to see there flagship 4k models and demo content. The difference for me was as big of a jump from dvd to blue ray.

 

[Dante316]

Just bought a 4K 55 inch sony tv, the XBR850C. do not have the will or the funds to go beyond that. should last me 15 years before I upgrade again.

 

[Madness]

I like "4K" more than "Ultra HD". Sounds too 90's.

Technically it's not true 4K either. It's slightly lower resolution. Ultra HD makes sense because it goes beyond Full HD 1080p. Also, we never ended up calling 1080p, 2K either.

I'm a bit worried at the spec at only 100gb. 50gb was woefully small for some Blu-ray releases at 1080p. Lord of the Rings extended edition required two discs. Movies like Titanic 3D required two discs. I can't imagine what 4K at only 66-100gb would require. The proper way to combat digital and streaming and piracy would have been to go above 200gb, that way you could truly be more future proof as well.

 

[Madness]

Nah. 1080p 3D doesn't usually come close to filling a 50GB disc. I know because I've been ripping mine. They're using a much more efficient codec and four times the resolution doesn't necessarily mean four times the file size even if they weren't.

Sorry for the double post, but Titanic 3D was two discs man.

I believe there is just no way they'll be able to give us any movie over 2-3 hours and with 3D at 4K on a single 66-100GB disc, especially if the movies are going to start to be 4K-8K remasters or whatnot.

 

[Nakazato]

4k tv this Christmas

 

[orioto]

I tried to find 4k direct screens of movies again and there are not one example online. Which is pretty funny when we're all talking about 4k medias...

 

[Timu]

It's about time this happens, bring on dat 4k and high FPS.

 

[MrJames]

I still wonder how the HDR would be interpreted by displays! Has anyone ever laid eyes on an HDR display ever? Is there currently such a display?

If you have a Best Buy near you with a Samsung Store, they have the new JS9500 models set up showing some HDR demo material. There really isn't any content out yet aside from a few specialty demos.

 

[AstroZombie]

I am no longer interested in physical media. I welcome the all digital future.

 

[MANGOD]

So whats the guesses on the first disks? Age of ultron, jurassic world and mission impossible 5 will make getting a 4k tv an easy decision if available

 

[AmyS]

Technically it's not true 4K either. It's slightly lower resolution.

True.

Ultra HD is 3840 x 2160p and "true" 4K is 4096 x 2160p.

 

[captive]

I said when I upgraded everything from DVD to blu ray that I wasn't going to upgrade again a 2nd time. A lot of stuff (both TVs and movies) hasn't even hit regular blu ray yet. Plus blu ray is still gorgeous for home viewing, most people will have between 40 to 65 inch TVs as their main television.

I expect this Ultra HD 4k will be a flop just like HD-DVD and home 3D was. The regular movie buying public can't even tell the difference between DVD and blu (I've had numerous friends/family tell me that



LOL, really though it'll be the Vita section.

Careful, soon you'll have the 3d brigade on your ass telling you it wasn't a flop.

Technically it's not true 4K either. It's slightly lower resolution. Ultra HD makes sense because it goes beyond Full HD 1080p. Also, we never ended up calling 1080p, 2K either.

I'm a bit worried at the spec at only 100gb. 50gb was woefully small for some Blu-ray releases at 1080p. Lord of the Rings extended edition required two discs. Movies like Titanic 3D required two discs. I can't imagine what 4K at only 66-100gb would require. The proper way to combat digital and streaming and piracy would have been to go above 200gb, that way you could truly be more future proof as well.

Return of the king is about 68 gigs.
Fellowship is 58
Two towers is 60

So they were pretty close to being able to fit them on one disc and if these new codecs are more efficient, we should be alright.

I am no longer interested in physical media. I welcome the all digital future.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Zabka]

I really hope they don't pull the same shit they did with blu-rays and force you to pay for DVD/Blu-ray pack-ins. A bullshit excuse to add $5 to the price.

 

[virtualS]

I'm excited.

I doubt a new optical format will catch on with the masses as much in 2015 as it would in 2000, but it will be fanatastic for enthusiasts like myself. There's no way in hell that I'd be able to stream 4K in adequate quality for many many years.

Looking forward to purchasing a 4K HDR screen, an amp with Atoms and mounting speakers on my roof.

 

[Orbis]

I am no longer interested in physical media. I welcome the all digital future.

See for me, I love Netflix and enjoy the quality of their 1080p content, but it really isn't on par with the best Blu-rays. With 4K this is going to be the case even more so; we aren't going to see top quality streamed 4K for a long, long time and physical will again be the only way to get that quality. I'll still watch most movies streamed as I do now, but when I absolutely love a film I'll always want to buy it on the best quality format.

Anyway, I'm looking at buying a 4K TV later this year in preparation for UHD Blu-ray and indeed streamed 4K content.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Maybe it's just me and my eyes but I went the selfridges stand to see there flagship 4k models and demo content. The difference for me was as big of a jump from dvd to blue ray.

I think you inherently might get higher motion resolution from higher resolution LCD screens as well, which would be a huge visual upgrade over standard 1080p LCDs.

 

[EatinOlives]

I am no longer interested in physical media. I welcome the all digital future.

Digital media and especially streaming, despite being way more convenient, still doesn't hold a candle to a proper film in Blu-Ray.

It's easy to forget when you're like me and consume most of your media via Netflix, but every once in a while I watch a Blu-ray and realize the difference between that and even Netflix's "super HD" content is night and day.

Yes physical media is now the niche market but it would be good to preserve that medium for video and audiophiles and the odd film that you're a superfan of and want the absolute best possible version. Not to mention it's far better for personal "archiving" than having to rely on whatever your digital media is stored in.

 

[Vashetti]

Hmm, been doing some reading and apparently LG are having issues with OLED and HDR, apparently they'll discuss OLED HDR around September time.

I wonder if LCD/LED will have enough improvements for me to go with that instead, my current TV is an LG LED from 2011 and the black levels are pretty meh, a lot of it looks grey.

 

[kerotan_eater]

Hmm, been doing some reading and apparently LG are having issues with OLED and HDR, apparently they'll discuss OLED HDR around September time.

I wonder if LCD/LED will have enough improvements for me to go with that instead, my current TV is an LG LED from 2011 and the black levels are pretty meh, a lot of it looks grey.

What issues?

 

[Vashetti]

What issues?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...cs-promises-hdr-4k-oled-tvs-by-third-quarter/

 

[MrJames]

Hmm, been doing some reading and apparently LG are having issues with OLED and HDR, apparently they'll discuss OLED HDR around September time.

IFA 2015 will be interesting. 4K OLED with HDR from LG. Probably another glimpse at the Panasonic 4K OLED. Maybe a few UHD Blu-ray players and software announcements ready for launch. New A/V receivers with HDMI 2.0a and Atmos/DTS:X support.

My main concern with HDR is dealing with different formats again. Vizio announced support for Dolby Vision with Vudu 4K rolling out a few movies to support it. But if you own a Samsung, Sony, LG, etc. capable of HDR, you get nothing? I plan on buying around September/October so I hope much of this mess will be cleared up by then.

 

[Yaari]

I remember when I got into Blu-ray early and I had to pay full price for the discs, it really sucked. Not sure if I'll ever do that again. 30 EUR per disc was super expensive.


I'm definitely getting a new TV later this year but I hope that by the end of the year there will be some TV's that are definitely capable of displaying all of this. Hopefully that flat OLED LG has in preparation. I hope it matches the requirements.

 

[Shin-Ra]

I love news articles that state 'x specification is completed' ... and then don't give shit for details of said specification.

:\

Granted it looks like this is the BDA's fault, as their own press release gives no real information. Seems like this is more about getting the format and its new fancy logo in the news rather than actually informing people on what it means.

This was my initial reaction, aside from the logo lacking some elegance. Why didn't the BDA at least copy-paste the specs from CES?

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=15769

SPECIFICATION NOTES

4K / 60p
High speed display in 60 frames per second of 4K video (3,840 x 2,160 pixels - Ultra HD), which has four times the resolution of Full Hi-vision, for highly detailed videos with extremely smooth movement.

10-bit gradation
Previous Blu-ray Discs displayed the color signals (Y, Cb, Cr) in 8-bit gradation each (256 gradations). By expanding this to 10-bit gradation each (1,024 gradations), even minute signals can be faithfully reproduced to realize richly textured video.

High Dynamic Range
A technology that drastically expands the brightness peak from the previous 100 nit to 1,000-10,000 nit, marking a significant leap in the dynamic range of the picture. Bright light sources (e.g. lights or rays of the sun) and reflected light (from metal or water) that up to now were difficult to display can now be shown in rich textures.

BT.2020 wide color gamut
Compliant with the ITU-R BT.2020 wide color gamut signal formulated for 4K/8K broadcasting. Enables vividly rich coloration not previously possible on Blu-ray discs (BT.709 standard).

HEVC (H.265) / 100Mbps
Support for the highest 100Mbps video signal using the latest high-efficiency video compression technology. Compression efficiency and high bit rate far beyond previous Blu-ray discs (MPEG-4/AVC (H.264), maximum 40Mbps) enabling outstanding playback of high quality video with 4K/60p/10bit, High Dynamic Range, BT.2020, etc.

These details are much more exciting to read and even technology enthusiasts probably missed them first time around.

edit: If you're looking for some good 2160p60 demo video content, download this video with 4K Video Downloader.
Make sure you switch Format: to MKV and download the 4K 60fps file.

This Star Citizen cutscene in H.264 format's easier to play back smoothly.

 

[Raistlin]

what is the framerate options with this?

Can you choose different standards? Like a company can publish something at 23.976 fps then another thing at 60fps?

120fps?

It looks to be the standard framerates available to BD and ATSC plus 59.9/60fps.

should just wait until the storage capacity is enough for whatever is needed.

We have reached 1.33 TB per platter on HDD's. Step up your game, optical.

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to directly compare a storage utilizing a magnetic field and and one using optical reflection within a known wavelength.

Nah. 1080p 3D doesn't usually come close to filling a 50GB disc. I know because I've been ripping mine. They're using a much more efficient codec and four times the resolution doesn't necessarily mean four times the file size even if they weren't.

Even with a more efficient codec, for something like The Hobbit you're asking for the expected 4x resolution, 3D overheard, higher framerates, P3 gamut, and potentially HDR to at least some level. It adds up. You're asking to use all of the new features in one title, and it's a ~3 hour title.

 

[Badlucktroll]

My 4k tv (an LG) is HDMI 1.4 compliant only. Am i fucked? Or will i be able to watch the 4k blu-rays?

 

[Raistlin]

True.

Ultra HD is 3840 x 2160p and "true" 4K is 4096 x 2160p.

Actually there really is no 'true' 4K as there are multiple cinema resolutions commonly designated as such.



That said, it's moot. You're comparing cinema resolutions to a format that will be displayed on a fixed pixel, 16x9 display. It's apples and oranges.

Cinema projectors to this day have pretty shit contrast and black levels. While that may finally improve with the new Imax and Dolby laser projectors, it's a realty that theaters have had to contend with since day one. As a way to combat this many theaters moved to a 'constant vertical height' setup. What that means is the wider the aspect ratio, the wider the image ... but it always maintains the same vertical height. That addresses two issues. 1) You don't have to change the focus (obviously a bad idea to try to do in real time - it's hard enough maintaining calibration without constant changes), and 2) you can draw curtains when you go to a less-wide aspect ratio and hide the light bleed from the crap black leveled pillar boxes.

With digital, they created multiple 4k resolutions. The popular ones have the same vertical resolution (to avoid scaling when maintaining constant vertical height), and only change in horizontal resolution to reflect the popular cinema aspect ratios (it's a 1:1 pixel format - they don't want to mess with anomorphic optics anymore). The same thing is true of 2k resolution formats.

When you make the jump to a format designed for fixed pixels displays, they logically went with the resolution that is the same as a 16:9 4K cinema resolution. To be clear if a director wanted to shoot a 4K movie for cinemas in 16:9, it would use 3840 x 2160 resolution. And since we can't physically change the aspect ratio of our fixed pixel displays, they instead embed the black bars.

Careful, soon you'll have the 3d brigade on your ass telling you it wasn't a flop.

Stop ... you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Raistlin]

I think you inherently might get higher motion resolution from higher resolution LCD screens as well, which would be a huge visual upgrade over standard 1080p LCDs.

Well yes, the motion resolution is tied to the actual resolution and hold time. If you increase the overall resolution, the motion resolution is technically higher. The problem of course is it's relative, so the delta between the clarity of a static image versus a moving one is still the same.

What I am curious about though is how that's impacted by FOV. For most people, they will be seated sufficiently far away from their 4K set that they won't really see an appreciably difference in static resolution versus 1080p. Your eyes simply can't resolve it. What I'm not sure about however is how temporal resolution is impacted in that situation. Since it's higher relative to what you can statically resolve, you may not notice the delta as much. So for many it could be 'good enough'.

My 4k tv (an LG) is HDMI 1.4 compliant only. Am i fucked? Or will i be able to watch the 4k blu-rays?

I suspect your're fucked :\