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Ultra Street Fighter IV |OT| What is old is new once again
- Thread starter Kadey
- Start date
CountBlack
Member
Ggs Rice Eater and xCobalt
E.Ryu's dive kick is straight dumb. If I do a DP with Elena, you're going to end up in the behind me.. if I don't you'll end up in front. Or my DP will straight up whiff and you'll still be in front of me.
Fuck Yun
E.Ryu's dive kick is straight dumb. If I do a DP with Elena, you're going to end up in the behind me.. if I don't you'll end up in front. Or my DP will straight up whiff and you'll still be in front of me.
Fuck Yun
Rice-Eater
Member
It's the same deal as Cammy, Akuma or Gouken's dive kick. I try to do it over the top of your head so that if you DP it will whiff. As for the last game, I thought I was going to be pretty sneaky and pick Yun against your Rose or Elena. Then you pull out DJ on me, I don't know how to beat DJ with Yun since my Yun is pretty much straight auto pilot and that doesn't work against DJ.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I think today is the first day I haven't played ultra since it dropped. I have a serious itch right now.
Does anyone here play Hakan? I wanna pick up a grappler besides Hawk.
Does anyone here play Hakan? I wanna pick up a grappler besides Hawk.
Huw_Dawson
Member
So I got battered by 2Pac (Viper) and BashFest (Sagat) at Dremhack Summer. I made top 25, but I want to place waaay higher than that in the future. Kirblar (sp?) in the FGW thread suggested I practice safe jumps. Now, I've done my research and I know the safe jumps setups Rufus has. I guess I need to grind them out... and throw in OS U2 shenanigans too to deal with people mashing their options on wakeup.
Anyway, I do think Rufus is dramatically more effective in tournament in this edition. His matchup vs Sagat is still horrible, but I think it is now winnable thanks to Sagat's nerfed high tiger shot and Rufus' footsie improvements. It's only 6-4 now rather than 7-3. I've read people saying Gief-Rufus is now 5-5. I don't agree, because Rufus' core gameplan still doesn't exist vs Gief as such. The matchup vs Seth is now much more winnable for a whole bunch of reasons, such as Seth not being able to scam out Rufus' reversal. His good matchups are also still good - he wrecks most of the low tier and his matchups vs Dudley, Rose etc are still really solid. He still loses badly to Akuma and some other shotos, though. And I think his match vs T Hawk is now pretty bad.
Anyway, loads of training mode for the next few nights. :\
Anyway, I do think Rufus is dramatically more effective in tournament in this edition. His matchup vs Sagat is still horrible, but I think it is now winnable thanks to Sagat's nerfed high tiger shot and Rufus' footsie improvements. It's only 6-4 now rather than 7-3. I've read people saying Gief-Rufus is now 5-5. I don't agree, because Rufus' core gameplan still doesn't exist vs Gief as such. The matchup vs Seth is now much more winnable for a whole bunch of reasons, such as Seth not being able to scam out Rufus' reversal. His good matchups are also still good - he wrecks most of the low tier and his matchups vs Dudley, Rose etc are still really solid. He still loses badly to Akuma and some other shotos, though. And I think his match vs T Hawk is now pretty bad.
Anyway, loads of training mode for the next few nights. :\
Ultradavid plays some Hakan. I think all the grapplers are pretty good in this- first time SF4 got the grapplers right, though they do have hard counters (and different ones each) Hakan might be the best of the bunch because he's the least counterable IMO. Ultradavid might say otherwise though
the_log_ride
Member
A little late, but ggs to Kevo Huevo for the Decapre matches the other day. Mirror matches with Decap is kinda fun.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Impossible, it's Decrape.
kevo_huevo
Member
GGs
^^All day in that matchup. Sure as hell a lot more fun than getting dive kicked constantly.
I need more of that Sim experience though, and general matchup experience against all characters with Decapre.
UltraDavid
Member
Yeah I think all the grapplers are good too. Right now I'd prob rank them best to least best as Hakan, Hawk, Zangief, Hugo, but I'm pretty open to Gief being better than Hawk, and Hugo needs a lot more exploration before really knowing how good he is. I don't think any of them is worse than mid tier, yay! I also think that in combination they cover almost all the matchups in the game, maybe except for Juri and Sagat.
But yep, I agree, this is the best SF4 game for the grappler crew!
Guess I'll answer this. Me and Blackule seem like the only two Elena mains in this thread. Elena is meant to be a footsie character with strong high/lows...Capcom sorta fucked her up in her transition from arcade though, so to play her you have to make some adjustments. Just remember that she plays nothing like how she did in 3S. Her specials will randomly whiff on hit or block and your main BnB will completely whiff on certain crouching characters. The variation to alleviate this sorta sucks too...In the end you dont want to get in close range to pressure with her as her pressure game is terrible due to most of her normals being negative on block and her low/high game being very telegraphed. Instead what you wanna do is be just within or outside of c.mp range where you can counter poke or make use of her EX mallet smash, LK lynx tail and the occasional HP mallet smash when youve gotten them afraid of your slide. If you get them down on the matt use your quick overheads(f.mk is your friend) to make them afraid of crouching and begin the cycle over again. If you hit a meaty f.mk you can combo after it as well.
Slide is -10 but can be safe if you space it perfectly where it's only -1. It can also go under most(not all), but not on reaction like in the arcade version. Use your slide if you feel the opponent doesn't respect it(ie. constantly moving forward/backward) or you anticipate a fireball. If you use her U2 you should almost always cancel it unless you're facing gief, sim, honda, rufus, or a non oiled hakan where you can get off a full one without punishment off a backthrow. You can also do a YOLO U2 if you feel they dont know how to punish your U2. Biggest thing about Elena though is her execution. imo shes the most execution intensive character in the game. Almost all her essential combos either are 1 frame links, unplinkable 1 frame links, heavily spaced out 2 frame links, and most likely a combination of the 3.
Knowing MU's is also very important to Elena because certain characters can punish her unsafe shit no matter how much you space them. For example ending a string with mk SS against a ken player will always leave you punishable no matter your spacing with his fierce SRK. In fact any character with a 7 frame or faster sweep or long range normal can punish Elena's mk SS even if spaced perfectly. The same goes with lk LT. Some MU's however are completely free to Elena's moves(i.e. the Balrog MU is extremely in Elenas favour due to many of her normals low profiling or beating rogs dash punch) So knowing your good and bad MU's and what is safe and what isn't is very important to doing well with her. A lot of characters normals/specials also whiff completely on Elena and since Ultra is still only 2 weeks old, adjustments have yet to be made. Take advantage of this.
c.lk OS u1 beats all reversals/backdashes (except wakeup ultra obv) and even autocorrects to catch HK upkicks. its pretty fun
the_log_ride
Member
Gotta love those st.HK whiff punishes.
Whenever, homie. I can hop on most weekdays at 11pm til whenever. Also, ket me know if you roll out to UCI as well.
Sagat-Hakan is a bad MU for Sagat.
UltraDavid
Member
you're optimistic! i feel it's evenish or a slight loss for hakan myself
does dan still beat mak
MiniBossBattle
Member
Sorry, newb question. You do the joystick ultra motion when you hit crouching lk and hit ultra if it hits?
Shouta
Member
Hawk vs Sagat/Juri isn't too bad when you have meter. Juri's more of an issue than Sagat though because her fireballs are troublesome, IMO. Biggest problem in the Sagat match for Hawk is stand roundhouse, which is really annoying.
Might be like cr.LK OS lunge punch where you do cr.LK U1 and if you do it fast enough, it'll do the cr.LK st.LP chain on hit/block and cr.LK U1 on whiff.
Professor Beef
Banned
Hawk/Sagat is one of the most fun matchups in the game for me.
UltraDavid
Member
i haven't played it but i assume she probably does better than before. i assume that about her generally, i think she's kinda unreasonable in this game. not too good in the best character kind of way, but buffering super strong normals into 4-500 damage is like whoa wtf
You do C.LK xx QCFx2 PPP regardless but you do the QCF motions just a tad bit later than you would normally do a special cancel. Because of how the game engine works, if c.lk connects, s.lp will come out because c.lk chains to s.lp. If you can react fast enough you can continue along with your normal combo of c.mp s.mp xx HK upkicks. If they backdash, because nothing connected no chained normal will come out and instead ultra will come out. It also catches all the upkicks (autocorrecting to catch hk upkicks for the lols) becuase c.lk will make upkicks whiff and go over yun, and also ex MGU and ex horizontal kicks cause of the slow start up.
You can also test this out with a simpler motion of c.lk xx qcf lp for the c.lk OS lp lunge punch to get a feel for OS timing windows. If the c.lk connects, s.lp chains after c.lk, if they backdash, lp lunge will come out. Mess around with it in training room to get the timing down.
That OS is particularly strong for Yun because his st.lp hits crouchers so you can always confirm a combo after. Only problem for Yun is getting in close enough to take advantage of it cause we all know how much people have trouble with that.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree, but the more damaging frame trap ability with dan's command HK would probably spell trouble for me. Let's play sometime again!
UltraDavid
Member
just send me an xbl message or a tweet or something whenever you're down. later tonight maybe?
Really why? Most Sagat players tend to think it's heavily in Hakans favor.
You can't really zone him and he's a lot more mobile than Sagat so he wins the ground game. Since you can't zone him and you lose on the ground he has no incentive to jump ever. Then he has far higher damage output than Sagat.
Would love to hear your take on the MU
This is what I thought as well.
sixteen-bit
Member
Slide doesn't go under low shot?
GrayFoxPL
Member
Hakan can slide under low tigershots on reaction.
Edit:
Lots of stuff goes under low shot.
Automatisch
Member
Looking to mess around on PSN, located on the East Coast. PSN is username.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Heh, Hugo is fun. Kinda late in the game to be thinking about an alt, though.
Shouta
Member
Never too late to be thinking about an Alt. Just not Hugo!
I'm in training mode right now and only his ex slide will work against low shots. All other slides get stuffed. The hakan player will probably end up losing some health just trying to build meter or getting in. If he does get in, Sagat isn't a character that can be bullied very easily.
I don't think theres any move that goes "under" low tiger shot. There are a lot moves that simply go through it because it has projectile invincibility
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
After watching Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist, I'm actually quite hyped for this game. Will be picking this up on PC when released. Steam is username.
black_vegeta
Member
Gat vs Hawk is a fun matchup
commanderpepper
Member
I'll be on in 5. PSN - samurai_bebop
Its not hard to get one bar, he can sit full screen and focus, duck, and build meter with oiling up. Soon as he gets a bar its super risky for Sagat to chuck anything.
And Sagat gets bullied by a bunch of characters. Large hit box, 5 frame reversal, bad walk speed, mediocre footsies.
Hakan doesn't let him play his game. He has to like rushdown lol.
commanderpepper
Member
Alright I'm on PSN.
Professor Beef
Banned
Blowing up bad Gat players with Hawk feels amazing. I imagine the same is true the other way around?
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
I will play you.