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UN and NATO to Gaddafi: Operation Odyssey Dawn |OT|

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B

Blackface

Banned
raphier said:
You've awful a lot of question you struggle with lately...


I knew something like this would happen. It's always US and nobody else. Either this or they accidentally kill civilians.
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Or the US just doesn't report when it's someone else. Like all the dead Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. (not hating, just saying)
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
Just saw a video showing the damage in Misrata... I don't even understand how people can shoot the homes of civilians that didn't even do anything. They destroyed whole buildings for their corrupt bullshit. I now just want a neighbour country like Egypt to just drop a big f'ing bomb on Ghadafi's HQ and be done with it. Besides, can't the CIA help Interpol with arresting that guy? Send some special forces to locate him, they must have some spies in the region knowing his location.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE72L0QK20110322

"I think that what has to happen is that NATO should assume command," he said, adding that if no unified command were agreed, Italy would resume control of the seven airbases it has made available to allied air forces.

On Monday, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said the mission should be limited to creating a no-fly zone and he said Italian planes taking part would not open fire.
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France remains sceptical over NATO role whilst Turkey is blocking it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...plit-over-plan-to-give-NATO-leading-role.html

But France, which only recently resumed full Nato membership, was more cautious about running the no-fly zone operation through the alliance. Alain Juppé, the French foreign minister, suggested that Nato leadership could jeopardise Arab support. He said: “The Arab League does not wish the operation to be entirely placed under Nato responsibility. It isn’t Nato, which has taken the initiative up to now.”

Turkey, the Nato member with the largest Muslim population, has been blocking any move towards giving the organisation control. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister, appeared to soften yesterday, signalling that he could back Nato leadership of the operation as long as the alliance ruled out any significant ground force in Libya.
“Nato should only enter Libya to determine that Libya belongs to Libyans,” he said.

Since the United Nations Security Council Resolution that authorised military action explicitly rules out an occupation force, Nato is expected to be able to satisfy Mr Erdogan’s requirements.
Click to expand...
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Don't know what's the big deal about NATO's role on this. It's inconsequential; the current coalition can maintain Gaddafi's little crappy Air Force on the ground without any issues. The mere fact that there is a NFZ in place is enough for those air assets to remain grounded.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
Rubenov said:
Don't know what's the big deal about NATO's role on this. It's inconsequential; the current coalition can maintain Gaddafi's little crappy Air Force on the ground without any issues. The mere fact that there is a NFZ in place is enough for those air assets to remain grounded.
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The US has declared that the Europeans, in particular the French and British, are expected to take the commanding role with the operation in the upcoming days. Italy, of which some of the coalition planes are based in, is threatening to refuse the use of those bases - which would obviously impact the amount of planes able to patrol Libya and perhaps crucially how quickly they can there. Italy wants command to go to NATO, whilst France is unwilling to commit to that and Turkey, a NATO member, blocking it. To my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, but if Turkey refuses then there can be no NATO command? The British, however, want NATO to take command.

This comes days after the Arab League expressed concerns to the extent of the military operation by the allies. In the mean time, the British military said they were "absolutely not" targeting Gaddafi and that it would be "illegal" to do so, contradicting what the British PM stated. If anything it suggests the planning beyond the initial bombing was less than adequate if you have the coalition, its mere existence stressed as crucial in legitimising the intervention as opposed to it being a US one, openly disagreeing with one another only a few days into it.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
CGVNK.jpg


Rob Crilly, referring to the crewman who ejected from his US jet as it crashed into a field near Benghazi, tweets:

"Locals queued up to hug and shake hand of the crewman to thank him for the work of the coalition"
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Here's the full story of the airman:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ave-known-if-he-approached-friend-or-foe.html

Behind him his F15 Strike Eagle was a burning wreck. He had parachuted into a field of sheep somewhere near Benghazi airbase and needed to escape - his fellow crew member had landed in another field nearby.

Raising his hands in the air he called out "OK, OK" to greet the crowd. But he need not have worried.

"I hugged him and said don't be scared we are your friends," said Younis Amruni, 27.

The airman was one of dozens taking to the air to patrol a no-fly zone over Libya and take out Col Gaddafi's air defences.

They have turned the tide in the desert war, helping rebels keep the government from attacking their stronghold in Benghazi, about 45 minutes drive away.

A queue formed to shake the hand of the airman, as locals thanked him for his role in the attacks.

Witnesses said it was around midnight when they heard two planes streak out of the Libyan sky.

Mohamed Breek came out of his home a couple of hundred yards away to see what was happening above his flower-studded meadow.

"It was on fire," he said. "We didn't hear any shots it just fell from the sky by itself and then there was a big explosion."

A rescue helicopter swooped low to collect the second crew member - and strafed the ground to keep the locals at bay.

Bullets tore through Mr Amruni's driveway and gate.

"We are so grateful to these men who are protecting the skies," he said. "We gave him juice and then the revolutionary military people took him away."

On Tuesday morning the blackened wreckage was still smouldering. A guided missile lay at its side. The wings had been ripped from the long-range bomber and its two tail fins stood high above the grass, attracting opposition supporters and souvenir hunters alike.
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Funny, I'd been trying to imagine the reception that a downed pilot would get in Libya.
 
E

Erico

Unconfirmed Member
Wes said:
Rob Crilly, referring to the crewman who ejected from his US jet as it crashed into a field near Benghazi, tweets:

"Locals queued up to hug and shake hand of the crewman to thank him for the work of the coalition"
Click to expand...

Wow. What a pleasant surprise. I was expecting to read something reminiscent of Scott O'Grady or black hawk down after hearing about the crash and ejection of the pilots.
 
N

nubbe

Member
Erico said:
Wow. What a pleasant surprise. I was expecting to read something reminiscent of Scott O'Grady or black hawk down after hearing about the crash and ejection of the pilots.
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Well, there is a pretty big difference in mood when people feel like they are getting help compared to being invaded :p
 
E

Erico

Unconfirmed Member
nubbe said:
Well, there is a pretty big difference in mood when people feel like they are getting help compared to being invaded :p
Click to expand...

The two incidents I cited were not invasions, but NATO and UN led humanitarian interventions, much like the current mission in Libya. Which is why I brought them up.

I suppose the main factor here is what neighborhood you land in after you crash.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Rei_Toei said:
strafing as in shooting? That'd be kinda messed up.
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Obviously they weren't firing at the people, just warning shots to keep them away from the landing area, which is for their own safety and the crew's.
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
mclaren777 said:
Bummer. I took these pictures of an Eagle last summer...

M6Dnt.jpg
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That's not a F-15, probably a F-16 Falcon if I'm not mistaken, been a long time since I memorized all the planes.
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
HawksEye said:
CNN posted this - article - about a mosque being razed in Zawia and some people saying its fake. Here is a video showing the damage done to the mosque by shells from Gaddafi's troops about 2 weeks ago.

Zawia mosque damage at 1:22 (Youtube)
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This alone will be enough to let people throw Gaddafi and his men on 1 big pile and burn them with his collection of his stupid green book. The best Gaddafi and the soldiers can do is hand theirself over before the people get their hands on them. I know many want him to stand trial but this man worthy of none.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Erico said:
The two incidents I cited were not invasions, but NATO and UN led humanitarian interventions, much like the current mission in Libya. Which is why I brought them up.

I suppose the main factor here is what neighborhood you land in after you crash.
Click to expand...
I suppose the main factor was rather something like this:
Foreign Policy said:
The task the United States set for itself was not infeasible, but the Clinton administration grossly underestimated the price others were willing to pay to stop the U.S. Marines. CIA officials privately concede that the U.S. military may have killed from 7,000 to 10,000 Somalis during its engagement. America lost only 34 soldiers. Notwithstanding that extraordinary disparity, the decision was to withdraw
Click to expand...
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
mclaren777 said:
Well don't I look stupid now. :(
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Nah, you don't look stupid unless it's your job to work on them or some shit but as a person, ehh, you're not required to know any of that shit so no worries about looking stupid in my opinion.
Tence said:
Correct order from cool to less cool is: F-15, F-16, F-14
Click to expand...
Heck no!
Su-47, YF-23, JAS 39, AV8-B, F-22, F-14
Edit: Lol, Iron Eagle references.
 
E

Erico

Unconfirmed Member
All these F-14 naysayers, smh. Three words: Variable Sweep Wing.

Plus during the 80's the Tomcat was dropping Libyan MiGs and Su's straight into the mediterranean like noone's business.

Anyways, this current intervention in Libya has really re-kindled my jet-fighter interest. The Eurofighter still looks lame though.
 
JetBlackPanda

JetBlackPanda

Member
whats with the F-14 hate? It was one of the best weapon platforms the Navy ever had! Nothing in the fleet today can match the long reach of its radar or the clobber of the six Phoenix missiles it could carry, if you listen to fighter pilots that got to fly the Tom Cats they felt like they were driving the Camaro or Chevelle Muscle car of the Navy.. Big Bad and ready for anything.

f-14-388-sept06.jpg


it's to bad that we sold so many to Iran and now we are scraping almost every single one so parts wont escape back to them, I think the plan is to keep only a few for museums etc.
 
desertdroog

desertdroog

Member
The F-15 also has an unblemished combat record of never having been shot down. I wonder if having mechanical failures during a sortie counts against that.

<3 F-15's.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
mAcOdIn said:
Nah, you don't look stupid unless it's your job to work on them or some shit but as a person, ehh, you're not required to know any of that shit so no worries about looking stupid in my opinion.

Heck no!
Su-47, YF-23, JAS 39, AV8-B, F-22, F-14
Edit: Lol, Iron Eagle references.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

A-10>>>>>>>>>All
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Wazzim said:
This alone will be enough to let people throw Gaddafi and his men on 1 big pile and burn them with his collection of his stupid green book. The best Gaddafi and the soldiers can do is hand theirself over before the people get their hands on them. I know many want him to stand trial but this man worthy of none.
Click to expand...
So I guess destroying a mosque is a pretty big deal in Islam, huh?
 
Sorc3r3r

Sorc3r3r

Member
Meus Renaissance said:
The US has declared that the Europeans, in particular the French and British, are expected to take the commanding role with the operation in the upcoming days. Italy, of which some of the coalition planes are based in, is threatening to refuse the use of those bases - which would obviously impact the amount of planes able to patrol Libya and perhaps crucially how quickly they can there. Italy wants command to go to NATO, whilst France is unwilling to commit to that and Turkey, a NATO member, blocking it. To my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, but if Turkey refuses then there can be no NATO command? The British, however, want NATO to take command.

This comes days after the Arab League expressed concerns to the extent of the military operation by the allies. In the mean time, the British military said they were "absolutely not" targeting Gaddafi and that it would be "illegal" to do so, contradicting what the British PM stated. If anything it suggests the planning beyond the initial bombing was less than adequate if you have the coalition, its mere existence stressed as crucial in legitimising the intervention as opposed to it being a US one, openly disagreeing with one another only a few days into it.
Click to expand...

Without the Italian bases will be very difficult to continue the operations.
BTW Italy has a lot to lose in this war, so the game Berlusconi is playing is on the edge.
Italy is the 1st commercial partner of Libia, a great amount Italy gas and oil imports were from Libia, Berlusconi has spent a great amount of time trying to consolidate the Italian position in Libia in the regards of commerce, imports, immigration, terrorism, with great results.

It's easy to understand that the interest of the Italy and France are at the opposite.
When the USA were delegating the command to France/UK, and showing not much focus on this war, was the only chance for Italy to draw a line to protect it's interest as is doing right now asking for a NATO supervision.
Berlusconi knew exactly that Erdogan would be against the NATO operation, so that the whole operation in Libia would be on stall giving Gheddafi some time to organize some military operations
Note on that, Turkey is a strong Russia partner, it can be considered a Russian emanation inside NATO, and Berlusconi has built a strong relationship with the Putin in those years.

Sorry for my english, i've tried my best :).
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
lo escondido said:
where do you see deaths?
Click to expand...

They landed in different locations after ejecting. The article states the villagers were shot at - I'm assuming there were deaths considering the presumption they'd only open fire if they felt the pilot was about to be attacked. I doubt the images we have seen are related to this second pilot otherwise we'd see photos/video of the wounded/dead.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
Googling the news, there seems to be some confusion as to whether there was gun fire and/or if anyone was hit or killed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/22/501364/main20045905.shtml

(CBS/AP) A high-ranking Navy officer tells CBS News Correspondent David Martin an investigation is underway into the rescue of one of two downed American crew members whose F-15 fighter crashed over Libya.
During a briefing Tuesday, Admiral Samuel Locklear, refused to address a British television report that several Libyan civilians were shot by the crew of a Marine Osprey aircraft during the rescue.

Locklear did say, "the recovery mission was executed as I would have expected it to be, given the circumstances."

Complete coverage: Anger in the Arab World
The two crew members safely ejected from the fighter jet, which the Pentagon said was on strike mission against government missile site.

One of the pilots parachuted into a rocky field and hid in a sheep pen on Hamid Moussa el-Amruni's family farm.

"We didn't think it was an American plane. We thought it was a Qaddafi plane. We started calling out to the pilot, but we only speak Arabic. We looked for him and found the parachute. A villager came who spoke English and he called out 'we are here, we are with the rebels' and then the man came out," Hamid Moussa el-Amruni said.

The pilot left in a car with the Benghazi national council, taking with him the water and juice the family provided. They kept his helmet and the parachute.

A second plane reportedly strafed the field where the pilot went down. Hamid Moussa el-Amruni himself said he was shot, suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back, but he could still walk. He used an old broomstick as a crutch and said he held no grudge, believing it was an accident.

He said the second crew member came down in a different field and was picked up by a helicopter, an account that coincided with the U.S. explanation of the rescue.

Other accounts differed as to injuries, however.

CBS's Mandy Clark arrived at the scene and spoke to an eyewitness, who said there was some firing but absolutely no one was injured.

"He said he would understand why there might be firing if the Americans were on the ground," Clark told CBS Radio News.

"He certainly didn't think the shooting was against civilians , perhaps more of a warning firing to tell people to back off and stay away from the wreckage and to stay away from the pilot and the weapons officer," Clark said.

Another witness told Clark that the Americans fired on their own plane that was down, perhaps in an effort to destroy it so none of the weaponry or technology could be seized by other forces.

Witnesses told Clark that right after the plane crashed, there were flares shot by other planes, which can sometimes serve as a a warning for civilians to stay away from an area. These villagers were not aware of that.

The crash was the first major loss for the U.S. and European military air campaign, which over three nights appears to have hobbled Gadhafi's air defenses and artillery and rescued the rebels from impending defeat.
Click to expand...
 
J

jorma

is now taking requests
Erico said:
looks like the lame younger brother of the much cooler Gripen.
Click to expand...

An aircraft that Sweden is unable to sell to any fucking one, not even Norway. The Swedish military industry are becoming giddy at the prospect of sending a few to Libya so that they can sell it as "combat proven" to Brazil or whatever. It's so fucking sickening :X
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Gold Member
A US spokesman has "100%" denied reports that the civilians were injured by shooting from a US helicopter rescue mission for the two pilots. A US admiral earlier refused to deny that a crew sent to rescue downed airmen opened fire on Libyan villagers. A witness reportedly said the rescue team fired shots to keep the Libyans away, then swooped in and rescued one of the crew. Six Libyans are said to be wounded. The F-15E Strike Eagle jet was conducting a mission Monday night when it crashed outside Benghazi, apparently from a malfunction.

This new information conflicts with earlier reports interviewing people on the ground

Googling the news, there seems to be some confusion as to whether there was gun fire and/or if anyone was hit or killed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/22/501364/main20045905.shtml

(CBS/AP) A high-ranking Navy officer tells CBS News Correspondent David Martin an investigation is underway into the rescue of one of two downed American crew members whose F-15 fighter crashed over Libya.
During a briefing Tuesday, Admiral Samuel Locklear, refused to address a British television report that several Libyan civilians were shot by the crew of a Marine Osprey aircraft during the rescue.

Locklear did say, "the recovery mission was executed as I would have expected it to be, given the circumstances."

The two crew members safely ejected from the fighter jet, which the Pentagon said was on strike mission against government missile site.

One of the pilots parachuted into a rocky field and hid in a sheep pen on Hamid Moussa el-Amruni's family farm.

"We didn't think it was an American plane. We thought it was a Qaddafi plane. We started calling out to the pilot, but we only speak Arabic. We looked for him and found the parachute. A villager came who spoke English and he called out 'we are here, we are with the rebels' and then the man came out," Hamid Moussa el-Amruni said.

The pilot left in a car with the Benghazi national council, taking with him the water and juice the family provided. They kept his helmet and the parachute.

A second plane reportedly strafed the field where the pilot went down. Hamid Moussa el-Amruni himself said he was shot, suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back, but he could still walk. He used an old broomstick as a crutch and said he held no grudge, believing it was an accident.

He said the second crew member came down in a different field and was picked up by a helicopter, an account that coincided with the U.S. explanation of the rescue.

Other accounts differed as to injuries, however.

CBS's Mandy Clark arrived at the scene and spoke to an eyewitness, who said there was some firing but absolutely no one was injured.

"He said he would understand why there might be firing if the Americans were on the ground," Clark told CBS Radio News.

"He certainly didn't think the shooting was against civilians , perhaps more of a warning firing to tell people to back off and stay away from the wreckage and to stay away from the pilot and the weapons officer," Clark said.

Another witness told Clark that the Americans fired on their own plane that was down, perhaps in an effort to destroy it so none of the weaponry or technology could be seized by other forces.

Witnesses told Clark that right after the plane crashed, there were flares shot by other planes, which can sometimes serve as a a warning for civilians to stay away from an area. These villagers were not aware of that.

The crash was the first major loss for the U.S. and European military air campaign, which over three nights appears to have hobbled Gadhafi's air defenses and artillery and rescued the rebels from impending defeat.
Click to expand...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Roude Leiw said:
so far they say they got shot at. doesnt mean that they died. maybe the rescue helicopter mistook them for libyan troops. very sad if they actually died.
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7:25pm

Channel 4 News is reporting that six villagers in a field on the outskirts of Benghazi were shot and injured when a US helicopter landed to rescue a crew membr from the US fighter jet that crashed late on Monday.

It said the local Libyans who were injured in the rescue mission are currently in hospital and that one young boy is expected to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.
Click to expand...
So fucking stupid.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Wazzim said:
The destruction of a religious building is in any religion a pretty big deal, no?
Click to expand...
Being atheist I wouldn't really know. I was wondering whether there was any particular significance to Mosques like there is to the Quran versus the Bible.
 
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