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[Mael]

When was the last time anyone complained that america hadn't attacked them ?

?

I wasn't aware that what was happening was US of A against Lybia either

 

[mavs]

I wish gaddafi would make good on his threat and give China and India exclusive oil and natural gas contracts. That would end this stupid war in a second.

Explain how it would end the war?

 

[goomba]

I wasn't aware that what was happening was US of A against Lybia either

What's your point ? It wasn't US of A against Iraq either

 

[Mael]

What's your point ? It wasn't US of A against Iraq either

I wasn't aware either that Saddam was conducting massacres against his population in 2002, that the so-called coalition had a UN mandate or that the goal of the mission was to establish a no fly zone.
I mean it's ok if you want to see this as the death of Franz-Ferdinand in 1914, that doesn't mean we shouldn't laugh at you for that.

 

[KRS7]

No, they would actually know that most of benghazi is in hands of the rebels and that normal civilians shouldn't be a target.

Of course they would know. Sadly, we Americans don't bother with briefings at all. Our troops probably don't even know where they are. We're just dumb blokes that go in and shoot. Thank god there are Europeans who know everything.

But seriously, I read that bombs were targeted at armored vehicles. This was only done after the harriers did a low pass as a warning and the vehicles kept advancing. It was reported just days ago that there were pro Gaddafi sleeper cells around Benghazi. I doubt the aircraft or downed airmen were in a position to differentiate. Civilians usually don't roll in armored vehicles. I agree in hindsight it can look bad, but in the heat of battle sometimes the best decisions are not made, sometimes people go with what they think will be safest for them and their comrades.

Military commanders decided to dispatch four US Marine Harriers from the USS Kearsarge, off the Libyan coast, when they spotted armoured vehicles approaching the location where the pilot landed.

...

"They were close enough to be a threat and for us to be concerned about the pilot's safety," said Capt Richard Ulsh of the Marine Corps. "The Harriers put on a show of force by going in very low. But the vehicles kept going. We dropped two bombs to defend the pilot."

...

The Harrier pilots dropped two 500lb bombs on the vehicles.

Yep, sounds like those murderous Americans were targeting farmers and children again.

 

[Mael]

Yep, sounds like those murderous Americans were targeting farmers and children again.

Don't you know, armored vehicles are what's hip in Lybia right now, all the cool kids drive one.

 

[Walshicus]

Would be nice if we stopped the bullshit "my country's army is better than your country's army".

Libya is the focus, not Euro-American bitching.

 

[nubbe]

Maybe the military should talk with the opposition and not bomb everything that moves.

 

[ukresistance]

So....basically nobody should have come to Lybia and we should have given free reign to Gaddafi in killing his own population?
You could then come into the thread saying how the western world is full of shit doing nothing, got it.

Gaddafi does not have a monopoly on killing his own people to stay in power. Libya isn't the only fucked up country in Africa or the Middle East right now. I mean, where the fuck were the French when Mubarak killed his own people? Why have Italy jumped straight into Libya, when the people of Bahrain have been waiting over a month for outside intervention?

Explain how it would end the war?

Simple, they would choose to side either with Gaddafi or the Rebels and help provide the means to end the conflict in a timely manner.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Fuck off. The UN voted for a coalition to ensure that Gaddafi doesn't continue to slaughter civilians by the masses.

That said, the US is going to do what it needs to do to keep it's own soldiers alive. There was no way to communicate with those armoured vehicles. They kept heading toward the downed pilot, so the US took action to preserve their pilot's life.

It's fucked up, but who ever said war was anything but?


Let the Europeans handle it? They can't even agree on whether it should be NATO in control or not.

Then you have Turkey with the bullshit muslim mindset that if a muslim dies at the hands of the west, regardless of their nationality or reasons, it's an attack on Islam itself. Fuck off. You're either secular or you ain't.

The arab league is even worse. You want to be accepted as a regional force, then do what is needed and make the hard decisions and face the consequences that come with it. Until them you're a joke.

France, lol, France... the little bitchass of Europe. Always wants to be one of the big boys but also never wants to do what is necessary. They want all the benefits but are to fucking pussy to put in the work. What they're doing now reminds me of when they fought the US tooth and nail on Iraq, but then wanted some of the contracts. Fuck you the most France.



The rebels are willing to give up their lives for freedom. I doubt they want the coalition to leave now. They weren't going to make any headway and they know it. That's why they kept pleading for an intervention.

You really hate France, huh?

 

[Mael]

Gaddafi does not have a monopoly on killing his own people to stay in power. Libya isn't the only fucked up country in Africa or the Middle East right now. I mean, where the fuck were the French when Mubarak killed his own people? Why have Italy jumped straight into Libya, when the people of Bahrain have been waiting over a month for outside intervention?

For both Egypt and Tunisia one could argue that it was because they didn't send the army that they were ousted.
Seriously you'll have to show me where they used airplane bombing to stop the protests.
What is happening in Bahrein is absolutely shameful, yet noone moves, no one cares.
As far Libya goes, it's pretty simple really, there's a UN mandate to establish a no fly zone and that's what needs to be done. Gaddafi will be ousted by his people or not but that's really not the concern.
If Italy had any credibility left they should have been handling the situation, it appears that it's not the case so it's a coalition instead.
As it is Italy has been fairly useless in this situation, again this would be vastly different if the EU had a foreign minister or something, but no need to cry over spilled milk I guess.

Simple, they would choose to side either with Gaddafi or the Rebels and help provide the means to end the conflict in a timely manner. Bringing back stability to the region.

Wait what? Both choices are absolutely horrible, if we fully back the rebels their legitimacy is lost. If we back Gaddafi we're basically condoning massacre.
Seriously both choices are really worse than what's done right now.

 

[cntr]

Did you guys really have to shit up the thread earlier with anti-American stupidity and America-Fuck-Yeah jingoism? Really?

Anyway: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-23#update-18776

11:19am NATO warships - commanded from Naples, Italy, will begin patrolling Libya's coast to enforce the UN arms embargo later today.

The two flotilla will initially comprise two frigates, six minesweepers and a supply ship, a NATO official - unidentified under standing rules - told the Associated Press news agency.​

 

[nib95]

France, lol, France... the little bitchass of Europe. Always wants to be one of the big boys but also never wants to do what is necessary. They want all the benefits but are to fucking pussy to put in the work. What they're doing now reminds me of when they fought the US tooth and nail on Iraq, but then wanted some of the contracts. Fuck you the most France.

You mean they vetoed an illegal war based on bullshit intelligence, lies and false information? Oh noes....how could they? Far as I read a while back, France already had contracts with Iraq with respects to oil anyway, so it's only fair such contracts should remain.

After all, the US/UK didn't go in to get oil....right?....Pffftt lol.

 

[raphier]

I do not fear storms that sweep the horizon, nor do I fear the planes that throw black destruction. I am resistant, my house is here in my tent... I am the rightful owner, and the creator of tomorrow. I am here. I am here. I am here."

I don't think this man even cares about libyans.....This man is delusioned in a self-centric and egotistical pervertness that the moment coalition decided to turn their head, his regime may send libyans to die to punish everyone.

This is the type of man who should be restricted from power: corrupted and perverted. Not that Gaddafi is the only one with such views, but I find his speech so dark and truly fearful to everyone who is not him.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Hey guys..

This is my 1st post here since 2006. Just got hit with a massive dose of nostalgia.

Anyway, just wanted to quickly chime in. People glibly comparing this to Iraq, etc, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. There's almost no parallels, in any single aspect. I think some of you in the US are so confused because of your political loyalties, party ideologies, that you can't see straight anymore. I'm currently living in Beirut, Lebanon, and I was also here at the start of the Iraq war. This is a very cosmopolitan arab country. I can tell you, anecdotally, that 95% of the people I spoke with were absolutely against the Iraq attack (as was I), while almost EVERYONE here is FOR this military intervention. I'm talking common people from taxi drivers, fruit stand sellers, business men, family, students, etc. The main consensus is 'there would have been a mass slaughter with no intervention, the US was and is right to intervene'. NOONE ive spoken to is seeing this is an sort of 'imperialist attack, US vs Muslims, oil, or any of that. Of course people here tend to be skeptical of anything the US does, but the overwhelming opinion is in favor of this, that 'it had to be done'.

Also, those of you who think the US standing hasnt changed in Arab countries in the past couple years are completely wrong. People's opinion of the US, compared to when Bush was there to now, is night and day here. You used to be able to sense seething hatred whenever the US was brought up. Now, not so. These feelings have softened (not dissapeared, obviously) significantly since Obama has been in office. There is alot more respect towards it than there used to be.

Just another perspective.. living in the US, right/wrong is simply a matter of what political party/person you'd like to attack, and how to score points. But I've read so many fucked up comparisons, ie. OBAMA NEOCON LIKE BUSH, OBAMA'S IRAQ, OABAMA WARMONGER, from US media, its sickening. I was utterly against the Iraq war, campaigned against it extensively. I am utterly for this intervention, because of the potential slaughter that may have ensued, although I'm not hubristic enough to try to guess how it will end up in the end.

 

[Rei_Toei]

Posted yet? [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosRaaC5wNc]Video images of Gadaffi artillery firing away[/URL].

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Posted yet? [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosRaaC5wNc]Video images of Gadaffi artillery firing away[/URL].

The video is a month old so maybe some of those artillery pieces don't even exist anymore?

BTW, you might not want to click on that link if you're at work/school or easily upset by gory videos since there's a thumbnail link to another video that user put up of a guy getting surgery for what looks like large bullet wounds.

 

[Advance_Alarm]

Actually France has the only super carrier in this mission, the Charles De Gaule. America has their command and control ship, and has more submarines there, thus why they are operating the first phase which required a highly co-ordinated strike between US and UK forces with cruise missiles.

Nice try though. Research before you spill out retarded comments.



I love being Canadian.

hahahhahahaha france doesn't have any supercarriers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercarrier

irony

 

[theignoramus]

4 Times Journalists Held Captive in Libya Faced Days of Brutality
Wednesday, March 23, 2011
By ANTHONY SHADID, LYNSEY ADDARIO, STEPHEN FARRELL and TYLER HICKS, The New York Times
This article is by Anthony Shadid, Lynsey Addario, Stephen Farrell and Tyler Hicks.

As the four of us headed toward the eastern gate of Ajdabiya, the front line of a desperate rebel stand against the advancing forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, a car pulled up alongside.

"They're in the city!" the driver shouted at us. "They're in the city!" Lynsey and Steve had worried that government soldiers might encircle the town, trapping us, but Tyler and Anthony discounted it. We had covered the fall of two other rebel-held towns -- Ras Lanuf and Brega -- and each time, the government had bombed and shelled the towns for days before making a frontal, methodical assault.

When they did, rebels and journalists fled in a headlong retreat. If Ajdabiya fell, Colonel Qaddafi's forces would be on the doorstep of Benghazi, the opposition capital, and perched on a highway to the Egyptian border, from where we had entered Libya without visas.

No one really knows the script for days like these, and neither did we.

As we left the town's last traffic circle, heading for Benghazi, all of us saw the checkpoint in the distance. "I think it's Qaddafi's soldiers," Lynsey said.

Our driver, Tyler and Anthony shook their heads, but within seconds, the reality dawned on us. Unlike the rebels in their mismatched uniforms, track suits and berets, these men were uniformed. Their vehicles were a dark army green, and they lined in the street in military formation.

By chance, we made it through the first line of soldiers, but not the second.

"Keep driving!" Tyler shouted at Mohammed, the driver. "Don't stop! Don't stop!"

Mohammed had no choice, and a soldier flung open his door. "Journalists!" he yelled at the other soldiers, their faces contorted in fear and rage. It was too late.

Tyler was in the front, and a soldier pulled him out of the car. Steve was hauled out by his camera bags. Anthony crawled out the same door, and Lynsey followed.

Even before the soldiers had time to speak, rebels attacked the checkpoint with what sounded like rifles and medium machine guns. Bullets flew around us, and the soft dirt popped. Tyler broke free and started running. Anthony fell on a sand berm, then got to his feet and followed Tyler, who, for a moment, considered making a run for it.

Lynsey instinctively clenched her cameras as a soldier pulled at them. She let them go and ran behind us. Soldiers tried to get Steve on the ground next to the car, and he pointed at the gunfire. They made him drop his camera, then he ran, too.

We made it behind a simple one-room house, where a woman clutched her infant child. Both cried uncontrollably and a soldier tried to console them. When we got there, soldiers trained their guns on us, beat us, stripped us of everything in our pockets and forced us on our knees.

Tyler's hands were bound by a strip of a scarf. A soldier took off Lynsey's gray Nike shoes, then bound her with the shoelaces. "God, I just don't want to be raped," she whispered to Steve.

"You're the translator!" a slight soldier screamed at Anthony. "You're the spy!"

A few seconds passed, and another soldier approached, demanding that we lie on our stomachs.

All of us had had close calls over the years. Lynsey was kidnapped in Falluja, Iraq, in 2004; Steve in Afghanistan in 2009. Tyler had more scrapes than he could count, from Chechnya to Sudan, and Anthony was shot in the back in 2002 by a man he believed to be an Israeli soldier. At that moment, though, none of us thought we were going to live. Steve tried to keep eye contact until they pulled the trigger. The rest of us felt the powerlessness of resignation. You feel empty when you know that it's almost over.

"Shoot them," a tall soldier said calmly in Arabic.

A colleague next to him shook his head. "You can't," he insisted. "They're Americans."

They bound our hands and legs instead -- with wire, fabric or cable. Lynsey was carried to a Toyota pickup, where she was punched in the face. Steve and Tyler were hit, and Anthony was headbutted.

Even that Tuesday, a pattern had begun to emerge. The beating was always fiercest in the first few minutes, an aggressiveness that Colonel Qaddafi's bizarre and twisted four decades of rule inculcated in a society that feels disfigured. It didn't matter that we were bound, or that Lynsey was a woman.

But moments of kindness inevitably emerged, drawing on a culture's far deeper instinct for hospitality and generosity. A soldier brought Tyler and Anthony, sitting in a pickup, dates and an orange drink. Lynsey had to talk to a soldier's wife who, in English, called her a donkey and a dog. Then they unbound Lynsey and, sitting in another truck, gave Steve and her something to drink.

From the pickup, Lynsey saw a body outstretched next to our car, one arm outstretched. We still don't know whether that was Mohammed. We fear it was, though his body has yet to be found.

If he died, we will have to bear the burden for the rest of our lives that an innocent man died because of us, because of wrong choices that we made, for an article that was never worth dying for.

No article is, but we were too blind to admit that.

Captors in the Same Plight

We probably shouldn't have lived through the night.

Even before the sun set, another gun battle broke out, almost as fierce as the first one. We were trapped in trucks in the open. Tyler stretched the binding of his handcuffs, allowing him to open the door. Anthony yelled for help, trying to open the door with his teeth.

A soldier finally let Tyler crawl around the pickup to let Anthony out. For a moment, our captors were in the same plight as us. As the hours passed, they offered us food, drink and cigarettes.

"These are the morals of Islam," one said to Anthony. "These are the morals of Qaddafi. We treat prisoners humanely." For a few hours they did. They offered blankets and mattresses, then put us in a car. As rebels attacked every so often, we all barreled out of the car and dived to the ground, until the firing subsided. They put us back in, and we dived to the ground again. They eventually let us lie behind a pickup.

Lynsey asked for her shoes. She got a bullet-riddled pair of Tyler's, taken from his bag.

At 2 a.m. on Wednesday we were awakened.

"The rebels are massing," one officer shouted. That day, and the ones that followed, we never really understood the command structure. No one wore rank; authority seemed to come from the pitch of a barked order.

In hindsight, the rebels and the army, or militia, didn't seem separated by all that much. They were really gangs of young men with guns, each convinced of the other's evil.

The rebels' story was more familiar: They were fighting nearly 42 years of dictatorship, wielded by a man whom the vast majority in opposition-held Libya deemed insane. To the soldiers around us, they were fighting Al Qaeda or homegrown Islamists, and they couldn't understand why we, as Americans, didn't understand their battle.

And none of the men around us, all born after Colonel Qaddafi seized power as a young lieutenant in 1969, could imagine Libya without him.

A new group seized us, and they were rougher. They blindfolded us, tied our arms and legs and beat us. They then stuffed us into an armored car, where Lynsey was groped. She never screamed but instead pleaded. A soldier covered her mouth, tracing his hands over her body. "Don't speak," he warned. Another soldier tried to shove a bayonet into Steve's rear, laughing as he did it.

A half-hour later, we arrived on what we thought were the outskirts of the other side of Ajdabiya. A man whom soldiers called the sheik questioned us, then began taunting Tyler.

"You have a beautiful head," he told Tyler in a mix of English and Arabic. "I'm going to remove it and put it on mine. I'm going to cut it off." Tyler, feeling queasy, asked to sit down.

We were finally put in a pickup where a soldier taunted Lynsey.

"You might die tonight," he told her, as he ran his hand over her face. "Maybe, maybe not."

From the moment of our arrest, the soldiers said we would be delivered to a man they called the doctor. Some referred to him as Dr. Moatasim, one of the more vicious of Colonel Qaddafi's sons. Each has his own militia, and each seemed to operate on its own, with its own rules.

Like Trophies of War

At 8:30 a.m. Wednesday, we were thrown blindfolded and bound in the back of a pickup truck and driven along the Mediterranean coast toward Colonel Qaddafi's hometown, Surt, a six-hour drive. Libya was never much of a state. In theory, that was Colonel Qaddafi's idea. The Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab State of the Masses was supposed to be perpetual revolution.

At its best it was dictatorship, at its worst chaos, and what we saw from one end of the country to the other was the detritus of an experiment whose own people lamented had lasted far too long.

We felt like trophies of war, and at a dozen checkpoints, we could hear militiamen running to the car to administer another beating.

"Dirty dogs," men shouted out at each stop.

Over the years, all of us had seen men detained, blindfolded and handcuffed at places like Abu Ghraib, or corralled after some operation in Iraq or Afghanistan. Now we were the faceless we had covered perhaps too dispassionately. For the first time, we felt what it was like to be disoriented by a blindfold, to have plastic cuffs dig into your wrists, for hands to go numb.

The act is probably less terrifying than the unknown. You don't know when it's going to end or what comes next. By late afternoon, we were taken to a jail in Surt. Our captors led us to a basement cell with a few ratty mattresses, a bottle to urinate in, a jug of water and a bag of dates. As night fell, we wondered whether anyone knew -- or could know -- where we were.

Graffiti of devout prisoners was etched into the wall, testament to an insurgency that was crushed in eastern Libya in the late 1990s. "God bring us relief," one line read.

At one point, Anthony was taken out of the cell for questioning. He never saw the captors.

"How could you enter without a visa?" the man asked him. "Don't you know you could be killed here and no one would ever know?" Anthony nodded. The man went on to denounce the rebels he said they were fighting -- Qaeda fanatics, he said, and gangs of armed criminals.

"How could they ever rule Libya?" he asked.

They sent Anthony back to the cell, and we knew that no one had any idea where we were.

Camaraderie and Brutality

The next afternoon, on Thursday, was perhaps the worst beating. As we stood on the tarmac in Surt, waiting for a military plane to Tripoli, Tyler was slapped and punched, and Anthony was hit with the butt of a gun to the head. We were blindfolded and bound another time with plastic handcuffs, and Lynsey was groped again.

As we sat in the plane, we asked a question that came up at every stop: "Is everyone here?" Hearing a familiar voice seemed to encapsulate everything that camaraderie came to mean. As long as were together, we probably stood a chance.

Nothing ever felt more generous to Anthony than a handcuffed Tyler managing to reach into the pocket of Anthony's jacket, pull out a cigarette and light it before handing it back to him.

The flight lasted 90 minutes and, again, we were dealt a gesture of kindness.

"I'm sorry," a sympathetic air crew said to each of us.

Our destiny may have been decided at the airfield in Tripoli.

We were put in a police wagon, reeking of urine, that resembled so many Interior Ministry vehicles in so many Arab capitals. Guards stripped of us our shoes, socks and belts. One then yelled in Anthony's ear, "Down, down U.S.A.!" He did the same to Steve. "But I'm not American, I'm Irish," Steve answered.

"Down, down Ireland!" he shouted back.

We were moved to two more vehicles, and an argument raged for a half-hour over us. We suspected the fight was between the vicious Interior Ministry and other branches of the government. That kind of fight is waged by the logic of a dictatorship: the spoils go to whoever can muster a greater threat.

We were moved to another vehicle but not before a soldier, perhaps from the losing side, drove the barrel of his rifle into the back of Tyler's head.

'Protection of the State'

Within a half-hour, we were in a military compound, in the hands of military intelligence. We collapsed on the floor, accepting milk and mango juice. We saw our bags unloaded, though we would never get them back.

A gruff man struck a sympathetic tone. You won't be beaten or bound again, he told us. You will be kept safe and, although you will be blindfolded if you are moved anywhere else in the compound, no one will mistreat you.

From that moment, no one did.

We were taken to a detention center that looked more like a double-wide trailer. On the shelves were a two-volume German-Arabic dictionary and five of Shakespeare's plays. (Colonel Qaddafi once famously quipped that Shakespeare, or Sheik Zubeir, was actually an Arab migrant.)

The men were given track suits. Lynsey was brought a shirt that read, "Magic Girl," emblazoned with two teddy bears. Her new underwear read, "Shake it up."

At the late hours of night, we were blindfolded to receive visitors.

"You are now in the protection of the state," a Foreign Ministry official told us.

Official after official made excuses for what happened to us. One said we had to understand the difference between militias loyal to Qaddafi and the actual army. Another asked whether Anthony had seen any rebel unarmed -- the presence of guns deployed against the state seeming to justify any crackdown. Officials asked Lynsey whether she had been raped.

The more they talked, the clearer it became: This semblance of a state was not a state.

In the four days that followed, we fought boredom more than anything else. Tyler finished "Julius Caesar." Lynsey started "Othello." If it went on much longer, Tyler jokingly suggested we perform the plays. As the hours passed, we replayed each moment of the preceding days in detail, trying to piece together what had happened to Mohammed.

We wondered whether we would be delivered into more sinister hands. After the no-fly zone was imposed and we heard volleys of antiaircraft fire, we thought that a desperate government could make us human shields. Weighing over all of us was guilt for what we had put our families and friends through.

In the end, it was the trappings of diplomacy that delayed our departure.

Foreign Ministry officials, clinging to a prestige they may have never had, insisted that our transfer be formal, between two sovereign states. At one point, they insisted an American or British diplomat had to travel to Tripoli in wartime. In the end, Turkish diplomats served as intermediaries and delivered us to the border.

As we left, we saw the billboards of a crumbling government. "Forty-one years of permanent joy," read one slogan superimposed over a sunburst. But the words that lingered with us as we left were quoted to Steve by an urbane Foreign Ministry official speaking idiomatic British English.

As we sat in an office, he murmured two lines of Yeats.

"Those that I fight I do not hate,

Those that I guard I do not love."

reads like a mix of horror and tragicomedy.

 

[Magni]

hahahhahahaha france doesn't have any supercarriers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercarrier

irony

Well duh, the US are the only ones to have supercarriers in the first place? He obviously meant aircraft carrier.

By the way, as a French-American, I'm quite disappointed by the ignorant comments against France coming from fellow Americans.

And I'll add my voice to those reminding everyone that this has NOTHING to do with Iraq (2003 Iraq at least).

 

[Mael]

Well duh, the US are the only ones to have supercarriers in the first place? He obviously meant aircraft carrier.

By the way, as a French-American, I'm quite disappointed by the ignorant comments against France coming from fellow Americans.

And I'll add my voice to those reminding everyone that this has NOTHING to do with Iraq (2003 Iraq at least).

funny thing is there's one planned for 2017....well if it's not cancelled next year that is :lol

 

[g23]

reads like a mix of horror and tragicomedy.

WOW, that is crazy. Yeah Libya is a really effed up place, but atleast their still trying to have a semblance of government. If those Journalists were in the mountains of Pakistan or Mogadishu, we probably would have never heard from them again.

 

[Walshicus]

funny thing is there's one planned for 2017....well if it's not cancelled next year that is :lol

That's part of the reason *for* the Anglo-French defence integration - to allow both of us to run aircraft carriers.

 

[Psychotext]

reads like a mix of horror and tragicomedy.

Related, Tyler Hicks posts here (posted a few pages back).

 

[Mael]

That's part of the reason *for* the Anglo-French defence integration - to allow both of us to run aircraft carriers.

Good one, then I guess it's nice they thought of it in advance.
Gotta give credit to the fact that they managed to secure a program just in case they're not there to carry it out...
I mean they're basically planning for what they think is the country's interest! I'm surprised it even crossed their mind.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

When was the last time anyone complained that america hadn't attacked someone ?

?

Ever since No-Fly Zones required bombing and France was in the region. :lol

When Gaddafi was about to destroy Benghazi the rebels for one were complaining pretty loudly.

 

[cntr]

Libyan air force 'no longer exists as a fighting force', says RAF commander.

!

 

[[Nintex]]

!

Well.. it took em long enough.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Spewing shit about France is the fucking worst, most tired schtick.

 

[Rei_Toei]

The video is a month old so maybe some of those artillery pieces don't even exist anymore?

BTW, you might not want to click on that link if you're at work/school or easily upset by gory videos since there's a thumbnail link to another video that user put up of a guy getting surgery for what looks like large bullet wounds.

Weird, I saw at a newspaper here that is usually pretty thorough/reliable, and they stated the footage was shot 2 days ago. Guess they were mistaken, you've seen the footage before I guess?

 

[cntr]

Full article.

 

[Rei_Toei]

Has there been any aerial combat or have all Libyan fighter planes simply been bombed to smithereens?

 

[Duke Togo]

Spewing shit about France is the fucking worst, most tired schtick.

Yeah no kidding. Take the freedom fries rhetoric back to 2006 you sweaty armchair generals.

 

[Wazzim]

Of course they would know. Sadly, we Americans don't bother with briefings at all. Our troops probably don't even know where they are. We're just dumb blokes that go in and shoot. Thank god there are Europeans who know everything.

You can laugh it off if you want but that's pretty much how people look toward americans. That copter guy shot fucking children because they were 'advancing toward our pilot' , think about that. Think about that. It's just that there were so many fucking wars were this has happened before (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and there seems to be very little improvement in the US army.

Can't you guys just admit the fault for once? (I don't mean this personally but to the commanders of the US army) Why does it always has to be:
"We didn't saw anything, really, Those bodies? I don't know. Hey George, you know if we shot someone this monday? No? Hm, see, we don't know what you are talking about."
*journalist shows pics and interview with wounded people*
"Oh yeah, those guys. Yeah. Well, they thought a fighter jet crashing next to their homes was so interesting and advanced towards the pilot. Their fault man, can't blame us."

Spoiler

Wow, what a rage post lol but this is really pissing me off for some reason.

Has there been any aerial combat or have all Libyan fighter planes simply been bombed to smithereens?

They don't have that many working jets and are smart enough to not even try going into the air with the no-fly zone.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Yeah no kidding. Take the freedom fries rhetoric back to 2006 you sweaty armchair generals.

Pretty much this. We have a team effort here and talking shit about each other is childish. OMG France only has a carrier not a SUPER carrier, in your face France! Get the fuck outta here.

SAS was on the ground before anyone and French jets were fucking shit up from the start. Deal with it.

 

[cntr]

Wazzim, you're coming off as one of the more ignorant people here. Are you really spinning "we saw armored cars" as "they saw children coming towards them!!"?

 

[Your Excellency]

Related, Tyler Hicks posts here (posted a few pages back).

Really?? Wow.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

You can laugh it off if you want but that's pretty much how people look toward americans. That copter guy shot fucking children because they were 'advancing toward our pilot' , think about that. Think about that. It's just that there were so many fucking wars were this has happened before (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and there seems to be very little improvement in the US army.

Can't you guys just admit the fault for once? (I don't mean this personally but to the commanders of the US army) Why does it always has to be:
"We didn't saw anything, really, Those bodies? I don't know. Hey George, you know if we shot someone this monday? No? Hm, see, we don't know what you are talking about."
*journalist shows pics and interview with wounded people*
"Oh yeah, those guys. Yeah. Well, they thought a fighter jet crashing next to their homes was so interesting and advanced towards the pilot. Their fault man, can't blame us."

Spoiler

Wow, what a rage post lol but this is really pissing me off for some reason.

They don't have that many working jets and are smart enough to not even try going into the air with the no-fly zone.

Those Ospreys should have let those villagers come closer and give the Marines hugs.

 

[empty vessel]

Wazzim, you're coming off as one of the more ignorant people here. Are you really spinning "we saw armored cars" as "they saw children coming towards them!!"?

To be fair, there is no good reason to ever believe statements from the military. Only independent civilian witnesses have any credibility in conflicts.

 

[cntr]

To be fair, there is no good reason to ever believe statements from the military. Only independent civilian witnesses have any credibility in conflicts.

Fair enough, but I find their reaction rather ridiculous.

 

[Wazzim]

Wazzim, you're coming off as one of the more ignorant people here. Are you really spinning "we saw armored cars" as "they saw children coming towards them!!"?

I didn't talk about the armored vehicles in any of my posts, it's weird to say I spinnged armored cars to children when I didn't even talk about any vehicles..

Those Ospreys should have let those villagers come closer and give the Marines hugs.

Finally someone who gets it. lol No but they had enough solutions next to shooting at them.

 

[Mael]

To be fair, there is no good reason to ever believe statements from the military. Only independent civilian witnesses have any credibility in conflicts.

Yeah you must not be aware what war entails if you really believe this.
Let's not forget that information is the most vital tool in a war, it can be fabricated (such as the case of the civilian that lied to the Congress/UN trying to push for the Iraq war).
Even the fact that they're independent or witness can be discussed in this context.

Seriously I'm not even saying that they're not saying the truth or anything, I'm just saying it's not a universal rule one should observe.

Sometimes things are really simple though.

 

[Snake]

Anyway, just wanted to quickly chime in. *text*

Thanks for this perspective. I wish we had more of this and less of a mix of chicken-littleing / jingoism.

 

[delirium]

I didn't talk about the armored vehicles in any of my posts, it's weird to say I spinnged armored cars to children when I didn't even talk about any vehicles..

Finally someone who gets it. lol No but they had enough solutions next to shooting at them.

Then you would be talking about the small arms shooting which has been clarified to have never happened.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Did you guys really have to shit up the thread earlier with anti-American stupidity and America-Fuck-Yeah jingoism? Really?

Anyway: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-23#update-18776

11:19am NATO warships - commanded from Naples, Italy, will begin patrolling Libya's coast to enforce the UN arms embargo later today.

The two flotilla will initially comprise two frigates, six minesweepers and a supply ship, a NATO official - unidentified under standing rules - told the Associated Press news agency.​

And Germany is getting as far away from that nonsense as possible. Can't say I blame them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/world/europe/24germany.html
Germany, already at odds with its European allies and Washington over its decision not to support a United Nations no-fly zone over Libya, said on Wednesday it was withdrawing four vessels from NATO operations in the Mediterranean because it did not want to be dragged into a military role in the region, Defense Minister Thomas de Maizière, said on Wednesday.

 

[Wazzim]

Then you would be talking about the small arms shooting which has been clarified to have never happened.

Then how did those people get in the hospital? Magic?

 

[HawksEye]

A spokesman told the BBC:

“Misrata was in a desperate state yesterday, we almost lost all hope, but the strikes came at a good time with good intensity and frequency. They even managed to take out some convoys inside the city which was very impressive. Gaddafi’s forces have been hiding in a hospital… I can tell you that there’ve been zero casualties from international strikes… There are snipers on top of buildings; Gaddafi’s forces are still stationed on the main street – Tripoli street – but there’s no random shelling anymore… I’ve been able to go out, I’ve seen bakeries and groceries open for the first time in many days. The strikes made such a difference – Gaddafi’s forces are scared of them. I want to express our gratitude and appreciation for these actions, we will never ever forget!”

As a Libyan I would like to thank everyone who is protecting my people from Gaddafi's troops ^^b

 

[delirium]

Then how did those people get in the hospital? Magic?

Did you not read?

Early reports claimed those helicopters fired on locals, but Ulsh said there had been no gun fire, suggesting the Libyans may have been injured by the bomb blasts.

 

[speculawyer]

You can laugh it off if you want but that's pretty much how people look toward americans. That copter guy shot fucking children because they were 'advancing toward our pilot' , think about that. Think about that. It's just that there were so many fucking wars were this has happened before (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and there seems to be very little improvement in the US army.

reminds me of that black humor in Full Metal Jacket.

Private Joker: How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Thanks for this perspective. I wish we had more of this and less of a mix of chicken-littleing / jingoism.

No problem. I've decided to avoid all comment sections, after any news story on this issue. 99% of them are hateful, vicious, borderline or overtly racist, baseless attacks by intellectually crippled people. They hypocritically attack Obama for either not acting quickly enough (he's a pathetic, inexperienced, dithering, in over his head leader- because making such a call should be be based on the 'gut', is a piece of cake, and doesnt involve thousands of factors and possible outcomes) , or acting at all ('he's proven to be a neocon, bankrupting the US with another war, identical to Bush, a lying hypocrite, wolf in sheeps clothes, etc), depending on their political inclinations. But in all cases he is attacked, usually mixed with some of the same preconceived bullshit he was getting as a candidate.

It's so fucking difficult to find ANY forum or comment section online with anything even resembling intelligent, rational, and reasonable debate. This place is the closest I've found to that, ironic that i's a videogame message board. I actually have to look for trashy comments here, while everywhere else I need to scroll dozens and dozens of posts to find something that isn't.