mightynine
Member
Just in case it might surprise someone, time to break out the spolier tags.
Reading the advance preview of UXM #455 and when the hell did Wolverine and Storm become an item?
Uncanny X-Men readers: this question's for you!
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Spike Spiegel
Member
Claremont.
As the team's parental figures, Logan and Ororo have always been close, especially when Claremont's writing the X-Men. In this case, I think he's playing up the romantic/flirtatious nature of their normally platonic relationship again to create some drama and tension with the Kurt/Rachel/Ororo angle he's been trying to push.
EDIT: And I thought this was going to be about
As the team's parental figures, Logan and Ororo have always been close, especially when Claremont's writing the X-Men. In this case, I think he's playing up the romantic/flirtatious nature of their normally platonic relationship again to create some drama and tension with the Kurt/Rachel/Ororo angle he's been trying to push.
EDIT: And I thought this was going to be about
Psylocke coming back from the dead.
Spike Spiegel
Member
WARNING! SPOILER: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/uncxmen455/Lyte Edge said:
Spike Spiegel said:
Well, at least they returned (sort of) to that story gap involving Psylocke from the X-Treme series. But even the Collusus return made more sense than this one does.
They could have used this return to make Psylocke BRITISH again, too, but oh well.
Oh, and PLEASE put Wolverine on one X-Team and let it stay that way. There's X-23 now anyway; put her on another team.
I haven't been reading/collecting my X-Comics nearly as much as I wish I could, but I try to keep up to date and current. I'll preface this mini-rant by saying that I do love Chris Claremont's style(for the most part) and ability, and his first run is legendary to say the least, but i'm afraid i'm starting to join the ranks of some of the "Claremont bashers". Though to be fair I suppose this is more directed towards Marvel in general.
Since Morrison's run ended, things have felt extremely "familiar"...hmmm, let's recap shall we. Jean(my beloved Jean Grey) dies...hey, it happens. But what happens right after that? Why, the same thing that happened before...little miss Baby Phoenix pops up and takes her place(Rachel Summers/Mother Askani/Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl). Now, in the grand scheme of things, I like Rachel, but in context regarding her usurping Jean, I hate the lil time-displaced alternate reality leg-warmer wearing mullet headed hussy. First time around she steals Jean's name(Phoenix) and powers and imagery...now she steals Jean's name(Marvel Girl), powers and imagery.
Anyway, CC likes to write in a very narrative manner...something alone the lines of "any issue could be someone's first issue, so they should have a fair understanding of what's going on, blah blah blah"...but hell, I got by back when I was a kid, with NO internet, NO fansites, NO forums, etc. These days you have cartoons, movies, games, the internet, etc...i don't think readers need to be spoon fed every past detail on every page. "I, the woman by the name of STORM, shall use my appropriately themed powers which relate to storms and other weather-based phenomina, to call forth LIGHTNING, which match my subtle lightning bolt earrings, to STRIKE DOWN you, the villain"
Another annoying thing that CC rehashes, comes to form during scenes like in this issue.
It's a good thing I can't even afford comics(of the X variety) right now because there really doesn't seem to be anything much of worth right now IMO.
Since Morrison's run ended, things have felt extremely "familiar"...hmmm, let's recap shall we. Jean(my beloved Jean Grey) dies...hey, it happens. But what happens right after that? Why, the same thing that happened before...little miss Baby Phoenix pops up and takes her place(Rachel Summers/Mother Askani/Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl). Now, in the grand scheme of things, I like Rachel, but in context regarding her usurping Jean, I hate the lil time-displaced alternate reality leg-warmer wearing mullet headed hussy. First time around she steals Jean's name(Phoenix) and powers and imagery...now she steals Jean's name(Marvel Girl), powers and imagery.
Anyway, CC likes to write in a very narrative manner...something alone the lines of "any issue could be someone's first issue, so they should have a fair understanding of what's going on, blah blah blah"...but hell, I got by back when I was a kid, with NO internet, NO fansites, NO forums, etc. These days you have cartoons, movies, games, the internet, etc...i don't think readers need to be spoon fed every past detail on every page. "I, the woman by the name of STORM, shall use my appropriately themed powers which relate to storms and other weather-based phenomina, to call forth LIGHTNING, which match my subtle lightning bolt earrings, to STRIKE DOWN you, the villain"
Another annoying thing that CC rehashes, comes to form during scenes like in this issue.
The training stuff....what the hell? Ok, Storm is complaining about not having access to her powers? Of all people, SHE knows the importance of NOT relying on her powers...afterall CC, it was YOU who wrote the storyline in which she lost her powers(well, access to them was blocked) via a gun made by Forge that was intended to depower Rogue. Storm was ready to quit the X-Men as she felt she couldn't be an effective leader, but eventually stayed. She's fought hand-to-hand before, she went up against Callisto in a knife-fight and nearly killed her by stabbing her in the heart, and Callisto was a much more experienced knife-fighter(and fighter in general). I mean hell CC, she's your token UberFemme, you've spent years making her extremely powerful, extremely resourceful, extremely versatile, extremely resillent, extremely strong willed, etc etc etc, and you're telling me she's moaning at not relying on her powers? The same one who not too long ago overextended her powers, and was weak and injured, and still managed to take out a whole harem full of deadly fighters? Bah!
I hate when senior members of the X-Men are written as if they haven't been doing this for YEARS...save that danger room primer for the new x-kids on the block. Neither the original five, nor the "all new, all different" X-roster need to be told not to rely on their powers.
Psylocke returns(sans Crimson Dawn tattoo)...yay...between Collosus and now this, it makes it very unliking Jean will be coming back in any real form anytime soon...Phoenix:Endsong seems to be ADDING to the damage done to her already done from the "Phoenix Force" retcon of '86...goddamn you Marvel...more cashcow whorring at the expense of a great character. Actually two, as it's really doing a number on the already soul-less Cyclops. "My wife's back? What was she wearing...Red&Gold you say? OMG KILL HER....yeah she keeps coming back...yeah she was saving the ENTIRE GODDAMN WORLD, PRESENT AND FUTURE, and MY SORRY ASS the last time she wore Red&Gold...so you can see why we must KILL HER NOW!" What a prick...he got exactly what he deserves in Emma Frost.
I hate when senior members of the X-Men are written as if they haven't been doing this for YEARS...save that danger room primer for the new x-kids on the block. Neither the original five, nor the "all new, all different" X-roster need to be told not to rely on their powers.
Psylocke returns(sans Crimson Dawn tattoo)...yay...between Collosus and now this, it makes it very unliking Jean will be coming back in any real form anytime soon...Phoenix:Endsong seems to be ADDING to the damage done to her already done from the "Phoenix Force" retcon of '86...goddamn you Marvel...more cashcow whorring at the expense of a great character. Actually two, as it's really doing a number on the already soul-less Cyclops. "My wife's back? What was she wearing...Red&Gold you say? OMG KILL HER....yeah she keeps coming back...yeah she was saving the ENTIRE GODDAMN WORLD, PRESENT AND FUTURE, and MY SORRY ASS the last time she wore Red&Gold...so you can see why we must KILL HER NOW!" What a prick...he got exactly what he deserves in Emma Frost.
It's a good thing I can't even afford comics(of the X variety) right now because there really doesn't seem to be anything much of worth right now IMO.
karasu said:
No, Nimbo Psylocke sucks. "Kyai! Marvel as I pose in ways that should break my body in 3 places at once. Gaze upon my buxom body, wearing gear highly inappropriate for a deadly mission in fridid weather...open your mind to me, I must converse telepathically as my massive fertile buoyant breast are muffling my words...oh, and I psi-knife people too"
Omnigamer, that's not Psylocke you're talking about. That's ANY female drawn by Jim Lee in the early/mid-90s, along with a host of other artists trying to draw bad pin-up art. 
The X-Men have a combination ninja/samurai/commando/secret agent all roled into one: WOLEVERINE.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ninja Psylocke to boring-as-hell-British Betsy, but way back then, they could have simply added an actual Japanese female character to fill the same role.
Anyway, bringing back Betsy as a British character doesn't mean she has to lose the ninja stuff, either.
karasu said:
The X-Men have a combination ninja/samurai/commando/secret agent all roled into one: WOLEVERINE.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ninja Psylocke to boring-as-hell-British Betsy, but way back then, they could have simply added an actual Japanese female character to fill the same role.
Anyway, bringing back Betsy as a British character doesn't mean she has to lose the ninja stuff, either.
mightynine
Member
My two cents: I've never felt any connection with Betsy as a character.
The next person to say anything about Rachel Summers, and I'll ask Willco to give you an embarassing tag. He likes that stuff.
The next person to say anything about Rachel Summers, and I'll ask Willco to give you an embarassing tag. He likes that stuff.
Any Psylocke I'm happy to see returned... after all I can't get enough of... hearing her comment how her knife is the "focused totality of my mutant telepathic powers."
Seriously. Death and the X-men do have a strange relationship as MG says...
Seriously. Death and the X-men do have a strange relationship as MG says...mightynine said:
Bring it on! Like I said, I personally have nothing against Rachel, but i HATE the way she is used by certain writers as some replacement for Jean sometimes...I mean, at least in the original run, even though she showed up right away in the Days of Future Past arc after Jean's death, it wasn't until about 30 issues later before she joined the X-Men, but this time...right away, poof "Hey guys, Mom's dead, so here i am, *giggle*...I think i'll call myself, Marvel Girl, just for the hell of it". It's so cheap. It dilute's both of their uniqueness, especially Jean because when Rachel shows up, she's usually free of the stigma that afflicts Jean(Jean makes a few U-Men regurgitate, deficate, and disintigrates their weapons and costumes and everyone goes apeshit...Rachel creates a singularity(black hole), and do any of them bat an eyelash?).
Nimbo Psylocke was depowered quite a bit compared to her British incarnation...Betsy back then was THE X-telepath...Xavier was away in space, Jean was dead, then later with X-Factor as just a telekinetic until much later...Betsy had powerful psychic attacks, usually linked up the entire team telepathically, did wide-range scans, etc...and had occasions of precognition. Nimbo Betsy was all psychic knife, and as Darien said, we were constatly bombarded with either direct or indirect narration stating it was "the focused totality of her telepathic powers". So it was always the ninja crap and then *wugh* psi-knife to the head. Last precog flash she had i think was in X-Men 4 or 5, something like that, or maybe Excalibur 55. Then there was the Kwannon mess, which only happened because SOMEONE didn't do their research to see that the body switch thing was already wrapped up...then the crimson dawn mess. The 90s were almost as bad to Betsy as the late 80s/90s were to Jean...almost.
Oh, and Jim Lee's Jean Grey wasn't that way, nor was Rogue or Storm...sure they were all busty as hell, but they were all covered up(Rogue for obvious reasons)...as Jubilee put it once, Betsy was always in one "I want to have sex" outfit or another. And you can't pin it all on Kwannon because Fabian didn't write that until about 20 issues after X-Men second series began...her design came before that.
Luscious LeftFoot
Member
Speaking of Psylocke death, what ever happened to that character Vargas?
First he was a mutant, then he wasn't, then he was working for Xavier, then he wasn't, then he was some kind of advanced human. What was his story?
Holy crap, big relipes coming...
At least Betsy actually has ties to things that might've brought her back (Crimson Dawn, her brother ruling Otherworld, her other brother being a crazy reality warper, etc). Colossus on the other hand, should've stayed dead... he was cremated for chistsakes. :/
Anyway, while I'm glad Rachel's back, I've got to say I barely recognize the character. Claremont's decided to devolve her into the "rookie" role and throw in some bizarre flirtation with Nightcrawler (ick, he's like her uncle). Her skill sets seems to vary wildly too, she goes from lifiting a city and creating a black hole to getting knocked over by Psylocke and barely containing X-23. And she makes little to no reference to her troubled past anymore, plus she's ehibiting the lame power signature confusion Jean had after revolution... I dunno, I sort of wish Rachel would get shifted to another writer. Then again Whedon's petty Kitty and Emma are equally off the mark imo... if only we could have Morrison back. He probably would've written an excellent Rachel I imagine, more "Ragged Robin" and less "Jean Jr".
"Dur, aliens did it" makes more sense than "dur, we don't know yet"?Lyte Edge said:Well, at least they returned (sort of) to that story gap involving Psylocke from the X-Treme series. But even the Collusus return made more sense than this one does.
At least Betsy actually has ties to things that might've brought her back (Crimson Dawn, her brother ruling Otherworld, her other brother being a crazy reality warper, etc). Colossus on the other hand, should've stayed dead... he was cremated for chistsakes. :/
Well, that was the plan originally in X-treme before Queseda's short lived "dead means dead, unless you're Morisson" policy. I prefer Britsh Besty too though, especially in the Aussie days.Lyte Edge said:
Rumor has it, Wolverine will be leaving the X-Men entirely for awhile...Lyte Edge said:
Don't take this personally, but that's rather superficial view on Rachel. Though I do notice lots of Jean fans leaping to the worst and labeling Rachel as some sort of Jean clone when she's really far from it (I'm guessing most of them never touched the first Excalibur run). Hell, even Jean's actual clone (Madelyne Pryor) was a pretty engaging character with a distinct personality. Personally, I've always enjoyed all 3 redheads. And again, this wasn't directed at you so much as in general.OmniGamer said:
Anyway, while I'm glad Rachel's back, I've got to say I barely recognize the character. Claremont's decided to devolve her into the "rookie" role and throw in some bizarre flirtation with Nightcrawler (ick, he's like her uncle). Her skill sets seems to vary wildly too, she goes from lifiting a city and creating a black hole to getting knocked over by Psylocke and barely containing X-23. And she makes little to no reference to her troubled past anymore, plus she's ehibiting the lame power signature confusion Jean had after revolution... I dunno, I sort of wish Rachel would get shifted to another writer. Then again Whedon's petty Kitty and Emma are equally off the mark imo... if only we could have Morrison back. He probably would've written an excellent Rachel I imagine, more "Ragged Robin" and less "Jean Jr".
Don't get me started. I can't believe after Morrison's wonderful interpretation of the Phoenix as mutant immune system to the multiverse, Marvel's so dead set on undoing it in favor of "cosmic parrot god who likes redheads". Ugh.OmniGamer said:
Yep, he's the saving grace of Uncanny right now.nomoment said:
This has been explained somewhat in Claremonts' run as Jean specifically leaving the Marvel Girl name/costume for Rachel. There's a moment in Uncanny #447 explaining this iirc, where Rachel talks with the essence of Jean via a homeopathic crystal, then talks to Logan.OmniGamer said:
To be fair, Rachel never wiped out a solar system either.OmniGamer said:
Yep. Nice to see someone else point out that Betsy's actually a precog too as well as a first tier telepath. This telekinesis bull needs to stop.OmniGamer said:
mightynine
Member
Well, to their credit:
The fact that the Phoenix's not all there in the head thanks to the Shi'ar scientists is a decent reason for the Phoenix to be acting like it is. But then if that was the case, wouldn't Rachel be feeling some the effects...or for that matter, all the other of the quote unquote Phoenix Corps?
Maybe something that will be addressed as the mini progresses. But until then, hey, that art's nice, huh?
Now you got me started.mightynine said:
The basic problem is the Phoenix shouldn't be acting anything, regradless of what Shi'ar scientists did to "it". The Phoneix isn't an "it". Morrison tied up the whole concept perfectly, the Phoenix isn't some benevolent god that choses a host. It's a potential mutation, the multiverse's way of "correcting" dead end timelines. It's a wonderful, logical interpretation that ties up various inconsistancies regarding the Phoenix (Jean wasn't possessed/replaced by the Phoenix, Jean *is* the Phoenix... and so are Rachel, Quentin Quire, Feron and billions of other beings throughout existance), it takes the whole idea from a mythological concept and brings it screaming into the 21st century. And now Marvel's shat on it, just like everything else Morrison did to update the X-Men. :/
mightynine
Member
jarrod said:Now you got me started.
The basic problem is the Phoenix shouldn't be acting anything, regradless of what Shi'ar scientists did to "it". The Phoneix isn't an "it". Morrison tied up the whole concept perfectly, the Phoenix isn't some benevolent god that choses a host. It's a potential mutation, the multiverse's way of "correcting" dead end timelines. It's a wonderful, logical interpretation that ties up various inconsistancies regarding the Phoenix (Jean wasn't possessed/replaced by the Phoenix, Jean *is* the Phoenix... and so are Rachel, Quentin Quire, Feron and billions of other beings throughout existance), it takes the whole idea from a mythological concept and brings it screaming into the 21st century. And now Marvel's shat on it, just like everything else Morrison did to update the X-Men. :/
If that's the case, then's who's talking to Jean in the black word balloons whilst she fixes the system? Why did it seem there's certain orders and power levels for the Phoenix Corps?
I assumed that was the collective, based on the way Morrison hinted the "Phoenix corps" working with the setting. They have a purpose, and Jean was just finally understanding hers.mightynine said:
Well, Jean was realizing exactly what the Phoenix was, in a nutshell the immune system to the body of the multiverse. And it's not just her, but countless others also, including Quentin Quire (who appeared at the end iirc). She came back because Sublime had ensured the Marvel Universe became an evolutionary dead end, and she needed to correct it. This fits with prevoious Phoenix manifestations too, as it could be interpreted as manifesting previously (via Jean again) to fix the cracked M'Krann crytsal and (via Rachel) to stop the Beyonder from threatening the multiverse. It would've manifested in Quentin too (likely to stop Sublime) but Sublime prevented it. The Phoenix ensures progression, it pushes evolution. In fact, it could be interpreted as the height of evolution.DarienA said:
Morrison's insistance than Jean (and the others) *are* the Phoenix sits better with Claremont's original story too (which was later retconned by other writers to absolve Jean of the Dark Phoenix Saga and place it on benevolent Phoenix consciousness). She really wasn't "replaced" by the Phoenix and stuck in a healing cucoon at the bottom of the ocean, she was literally reborn after she died on the moon. That's what I really enjoyed about Morrison's definition, it's logical and encompassing enough to allow the reader to fill in the holes and really make sense of the entire Phoenix concept (which has been pretty abused over the years).
*Gives Jarrod a telepathic high-five*
Morrison tied into Claremont's original story...Phoenix is not an entity. Jean as Phoenix was Jean at her evolved state(prematurely). It's her mutuation(and obviously, Rachel's as well). The retcon screwed this all up, made it into a force, and worst yet, a sentient force...however even within the silly retcon, EVERYTHING, its form, it's ability to communication, etc, derived from Jean...while dying on the shuttle, she jokes "oh great, so you're a figment of my imagination"...which if you think about it, for a telepath, is not so far from the truth. At any rate, there's a part from X-Men: The Hidden Years #9 that sums it up perfectly IMO.
In X-Men:The Hidden Years issue 9, there's a "dream
sequence"(moreso like a vision), and Phoenix(inhabiting Jean's body) says "Incredible! The untapped power in this body is almost limitless!", and soon after Cyclops says in thought "It's as if all of her natural inhibitions have been stripped away!".
Now the Phoenix Corps thing isn't "elegant", in fact by itself i hate the idea, but given the fact that everything is hamstrung by "shitty continuity", it was necessary to allow for other instances of "Phoenixi"...still though, Jean is the Queen Bitch of the all(White Phoenix of the Crown...a nod to when Jean was in white Phoenix form while visiting Death after her death on the Moon in Claremont's backup story in Classic X-Men 43). As for the "Black bubbles"...there are two things going on here. One is the power, which is based on mutation. The other is the Consciousness...that is still really murky, but at least decentralizes things and doesn't make "Phoenix" to be some retarded cosmic crow with a necrophiliac "dead red head" fixation. But like i said, from what i've seen of Phoenix Endsong, it seems to be doing the cosmic crow thing. This is what I hate about minis....they get some hotshot writer...he does some spotty cliff's notes "research" on a character, picks and choses what to use, puts it in a blender, adds a cup of rat piss, puree, and slap it on paper. Sorry, but when your favorite character is Jean Grey, you have to be a cynic.
And back to Rachel...like i said, i have no problem with her(and i'm quite learned with regards to her character, and i do have the entire Excalibur run in digital form)...I have a problem with how she is used, and in a lot of ways it's as a replacement(hell, first it was just to keep the copyrights to the Phoenix name). The minute Rachel shows up, Jean becomes either the crazy bitch, the dead bitch, or the crazy dead bitch. And yes i know about the holempathic "heart to heart" between Jean and Rachel...still though, that's just a convenient but thinly veiled attempt to cover up the fact that once again, she's there to pretty much sub for Mama.
I'm sure Storm fans would love for her to be "cloned/possesed" by some "Jet Stream Force", almost destroy the planet, die....and have some dimension displaced daughter called pop up, claim the name of Storm, have the exact same powers but free of the stigma of her Mother.
Morrison tied into Claremont's original story...Phoenix is not an entity. Jean as Phoenix was Jean at her evolved state(prematurely). It's her mutuation(and obviously, Rachel's as well). The retcon screwed this all up, made it into a force, and worst yet, a sentient force...however even within the silly retcon, EVERYTHING, its form, it's ability to communication, etc, derived from Jean...while dying on the shuttle, she jokes "oh great, so you're a figment of my imagination"...which if you think about it, for a telepath, is not so far from the truth. At any rate, there's a part from X-Men: The Hidden Years #9 that sums it up perfectly IMO.
In X-Men:The Hidden Years issue 9, there's a "dream
sequence"(moreso like a vision), and Phoenix(inhabiting Jean's body) says "Incredible! The untapped power in this body is almost limitless!", and soon after Cyclops says in thought "It's as if all of her natural inhibitions have been stripped away!".
Now the Phoenix Corps thing isn't "elegant", in fact by itself i hate the idea, but given the fact that everything is hamstrung by "shitty continuity", it was necessary to allow for other instances of "Phoenixi"...still though, Jean is the Queen Bitch of the all(White Phoenix of the Crown...a nod to when Jean was in white Phoenix form while visiting Death after her death on the Moon in Claremont's backup story in Classic X-Men 43). As for the "Black bubbles"...there are two things going on here. One is the power, which is based on mutation. The other is the Consciousness...that is still really murky, but at least decentralizes things and doesn't make "Phoenix" to be some retarded cosmic crow with a necrophiliac "dead red head" fixation. But like i said, from what i've seen of Phoenix Endsong, it seems to be doing the cosmic crow thing. This is what I hate about minis....they get some hotshot writer...he does some spotty cliff's notes "research" on a character, picks and choses what to use, puts it in a blender, adds a cup of rat piss, puree, and slap it on paper. Sorry, but when your favorite character is Jean Grey, you have to be a cynic.
And back to Rachel...like i said, i have no problem with her(and i'm quite learned with regards to her character, and i do have the entire Excalibur run in digital form)...I have a problem with how she is used, and in a lot of ways it's as a replacement(hell, first it was just to keep the copyrights to the Phoenix name). The minute Rachel shows up, Jean becomes either the crazy bitch, the dead bitch, or the crazy dead bitch. And yes i know about the holempathic "heart to heart" between Jean and Rachel...still though, that's just a convenient but thinly veiled attempt to cover up the fact that once again, she's there to pretty much sub for Mama.
I'm sure Storm fans would love for her to be "cloned/possesed" by some "Jet Stream Force", almost destroy the planet, die....and have some dimension displaced daughter called pop up, claim the name of Storm, have the exact same powers but free of the stigma of her Mother.
Pretty much agree with everything. Jean *is* Phoenix and Rachel's definitely more engaging when she's not subbing for Jean. I do like the Phoenix corps idea though, and that Morrison put enough thought into things to give the Phoenix a logical purpose. It demystified the whole concept, took things from mythology to science. It just makes more sense, like almost everything he did with the X-Men.
I *really* would've loved to see him handle Rachel though, time travel paradoxes was a major component of his work on The Invisibles and he really could've added to Rachel's dynamic, rather than her just being a one note "victim/slave from the future". Rachel's a great character but it'd be so much better if she could actually be integrated into the X-mythos alongside Jean, rather than instead of Jean (they did it for Cable and Nate Grey after all). I'm still sort of hoping Claremont works her into it, maybe exploring her questionable parentage (hints were laid a long time ago that Scott's not actually her father) but given his horrible characterization it's looking sort of doubtful. Then again, the way this Endsong miniseries seems to be screwing everything up (did Pak even read Here Comes Tomorrow?!?), chances are Jean might never be brought back anyway. :/
Is is just me, or have all the X-ladies seen total character assasination over the past year? Only Claremont's Storm and Vaughan/McKeever's Mystique really seem "on" to me. :/
I *really* would've loved to see him handle Rachel though, time travel paradoxes was a major component of his work on The Invisibles and he really could've added to Rachel's dynamic, rather than her just being a one note "victim/slave from the future". Rachel's a great character but it'd be so much better if she could actually be integrated into the X-mythos alongside Jean, rather than instead of Jean (they did it for Cable and Nate Grey after all). I'm still sort of hoping Claremont works her into it, maybe exploring her questionable parentage (hints were laid a long time ago that Scott's not actually her father) but given his horrible characterization it's looking sort of doubtful. Then again, the way this Endsong miniseries seems to be screwing everything up (did Pak even read Here Comes Tomorrow?!?), chances are Jean might never be brought back anyway. :/
Is is just me, or have all the X-ladies seen total character assasination over the past year? Only Claremont's Storm and Vaughan/McKeever's Mystique really seem "on" to me. :/
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
...yeah so is Colosus still dead?
Donasaurus Rex, no, they brought him back recently. He's in Astonishing X-Men.
Can you guys fill me in on Rachael? I stopped reading X-Men books for almost a decade and my memory is hazy; I thought that Rachael either died or returned to her own timeline. Is the Rachael that's with the X-Men now a different Rachael from yet another timeline, or, the same character?
I'm NOT a fan of what Morrisen did to the X-Men, and like where all the books are going now, but still don't like them anywhere near as much as the stuff from the 80s and early 90s. Definitely much better than the mid 90s crap though.
I don't like Emma Frost and Cyclops as "heads" of the school. Hell, I don't like Emma Frost much as a good guy; she should be a villain.
Can you guys fill me in on Rachael? I stopped reading X-Men books for almost a decade and my memory is hazy; I thought that Rachael either died or returned to her own timeline. Is the Rachael that's with the X-Men now a different Rachael from yet another timeline, or, the same character?
I'm NOT a fan of what Morrisen did to the X-Men, and like where all the books are going now, but still don't like them anywhere near as much as the stuff from the 80s and early 90s. Definitely much better than the mid 90s crap though.
I don't like Emma Frost and Cyclops as "heads" of the school. Hell, I don't like Emma Frost much as a good guy; she should be a villain.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
dc wins! DC WINS!!DCWINS!!! 
Here's the quick&nasty on Rachel(hope this gets posted before someone else does, making this a waste of time, lol).
Rachel in Excalibur, battles Necrom....dies, but Phoenix brings her back to life and takes her into space to heal. She's floating around...eventually(after Phoenix has a confrontation with Galactus), she comes to, and Phoenix reveals herself to Rachel(in Jean's gold-woman form), Rachel says that Phoenix is a force of nature, not an intelligence, and Phoenix says it kept her true nature hidden from her. Anywho, Phoenix says that human life is fleeting, but it is infinite...it can't be both, so it decides to to return to it's natural state(just an inert force). Rachel's mind is now fully clear, she has her own memories. She returns to Excalibur, but now that she has her memories(Phoenix was repressing them to keep her from remembering her haunting past), decides she needs to return to her time to make things right. She does, but there's interference from Widget(with Kate's/Kitty's mind), and the whole team ends up in the future....anywho, the reprogram the Sentinel hierarchy so they are no longer a threat...all is well, but upon returning, Captain Britain is lost in the timestream.
Since Rachel is already a temporal annomaly, there are periods when Rachel can hear CB, and even when parts of their body exchange(rachel's body with CB's arms for instance)...eventually, the previously Catatonic Meggan demands that Rachel do what's right, and bring CB back. Rachel is beyond pissed...she saved her world, her parents just got married in this world, and now she has to basically give up her life...anywho, they bring back CB and Rachel ends up in the timestream.
She ends up 3000 years in the future, in Cable's era, run by Apocalypse, and forms a clan known as the Askani...she is Mother Askani, and brings Scott/Jean into the future into new bodies, to help look after Nathan and raise him. Rachel, a very old woman now, eventually passes, but is still alive in psychic form.
Way later(for us), Cable and Jean eventually kill Apocalypse after the Search for Cyclops thing...so that erases that future timeline(remember Cable was actually born in the present so he's not affected), so Rachel ends up at the End of Time...this part is murky for me, i was out of comics at this time, but she ends up back in our time and she and Cable have a fight with the Dark sisterhood or something. Rachel decides to stay in hiding and attend college.
Over in Xtreme X-Men, a villain known as Elias Bogan was controlling a mystery telepath who infiltrated the mansion...this ended up being Rachel, who is now with Storm's team. She is the same character, but as i understand it, due to Cable's future timeline being wiped out, she doesn't remember much of the Askani stuff...i don't know how much she knows of her own timeline, but essentially she's the same.
Rachel in Excalibur, battles Necrom....dies, but Phoenix brings her back to life and takes her into space to heal. She's floating around...eventually(after Phoenix has a confrontation with Galactus), she comes to, and Phoenix reveals herself to Rachel(in Jean's gold-woman form), Rachel says that Phoenix is a force of nature, not an intelligence, and Phoenix says it kept her true nature hidden from her. Anywho, Phoenix says that human life is fleeting, but it is infinite...it can't be both, so it decides to to return to it's natural state(just an inert force). Rachel's mind is now fully clear, she has her own memories. She returns to Excalibur, but now that she has her memories(Phoenix was repressing them to keep her from remembering her haunting past), decides she needs to return to her time to make things right. She does, but there's interference from Widget(with Kate's/Kitty's mind), and the whole team ends up in the future....anywho, the reprogram the Sentinel hierarchy so they are no longer a threat...all is well, but upon returning, Captain Britain is lost in the timestream.
Since Rachel is already a temporal annomaly, there are periods when Rachel can hear CB, and even when parts of their body exchange(rachel's body with CB's arms for instance)...eventually, the previously Catatonic Meggan demands that Rachel do what's right, and bring CB back. Rachel is beyond pissed...she saved her world, her parents just got married in this world, and now she has to basically give up her life...anywho, they bring back CB and Rachel ends up in the timestream.
She ends up 3000 years in the future, in Cable's era, run by Apocalypse, and forms a clan known as the Askani...she is Mother Askani, and brings Scott/Jean into the future into new bodies, to help look after Nathan and raise him. Rachel, a very old woman now, eventually passes, but is still alive in psychic form.
Way later(for us), Cable and Jean eventually kill Apocalypse after the Search for Cyclops thing...so that erases that future timeline(remember Cable was actually born in the present so he's not affected), so Rachel ends up at the End of Time...this part is murky for me, i was out of comics at this time, but she ends up back in our time and she and Cable have a fight with the Dark sisterhood or something. Rachel decides to stay in hiding and attend college.
Over in Xtreme X-Men, a villain known as Elias Bogan was controlling a mystery telepath who infiltrated the mansion...this ended up being Rachel, who is now with Storm's team. She is the same character, but as i understand it, due to Cable's future timeline being wiped out, she doesn't remember much of the Askani stuff...i don't know how much she knows of her own timeline, but essentially she's the same.
DonasaurusRex said:...yeah so is Colosus still dead?
No he's not, he's back.
OmniGamer said:
<weeps for past destroyed comic collection>
I loved... repeat.. LOVED that storyline Necrom was cool.... and the special foil cover they did for the issue with the final battle? Kick ass... I can still remember.... in the battle they were throwing PLANETS at each other!!! <sigh> I miss those days.... so few cares... so much more leisure....
OmniGamer said:
Thank you Omni... seriously you have no idea how much that meant to me.... my comic book collection that I spent almost 10 years collection was destroyed when the house I was living in a few years ago had it's pipes in the basement freeze, crack and flood the basement... I lost so many personal items... my comics books, most of my photos from my time in basic and advance training...sigh...
Anyway hey jarrod thanks for that link that was a GREAT recap of Rachel's history I've never seen it all down in one place before... I'm gonna have to save that link to read up on some of the others to refresh my memory of their respective histories.
I had a similar experience, on christmas morning of all days(2003), we had a huge flod...thankfully most of my comics were in plastic bins...however i did have a few in a shoulder gym bag, but a little precog flash some time before that told me to put some crappy comics on the bottom just in case...so only some comics from Chuck Austen's run got ruined :lol
I have lost some key comics due to some jerks who "borrowed" them(oh my poor Infinity Gauntlet 1-5).
I have lost some key comics due to some jerks who "borrowed" them(oh my poor Infinity Gauntlet 1-5).
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