Support NeoGAF

[Negotiator]

It might also be an issue because the game doesn't have dedicated servers. If you're running 30 hz then that higher bandwidth is all running through the host of the peer to peer network in UC4, which means that host needs to have good upload.

I don't think it uses anywhere near 500 kbs though. People say Black Ops 3 uses about 15meg up down / hour gameplay when you're not hosting, and I remember the other Call of Duty games used to use 60kbs or so. Not a lot for multiplayer gaming.

It's p2p, which means everyone communicates with everyone (with a few exceptions*) for exchanging player movement data. The host is responsible for other stuff (syncing, or weapon pick ups in UC2 MP).

Fully connected is p2p:

* Star topology is only used for Restricted NAT Type (3) players, which increases lag, depending on where the host is located.

I've posted detailed bandwidth measurements from my router and that was while being the party leader, along with a Party Chat session. 500 Kbps is the peak value I recorded (it's variable).

TL;DR: Everyone needs to have good upload, not just the host.

 

[#1 defender]

It's p2p, which means everyone communicates with everyone (with a few exceptions*) for exchanging player movement data. The host is responsible for other stuff (syncing, or weapon pick ups in UC2 MP).

P2P is the Devil.

 

[Drencrom]

KICK FUCKING AFK PLAYERS QUICKER. I'M TIRED OF SOMEONE NOT MOVING FOR HALF THE GAME.

This.


THIS!

 

[Chronospherics]

It's p2p, which means everyone communicates with everyone (with a few exceptions*) for exchanging player movement data. The host is responsible for other stuff (syncing, or weapon pick ups in UC2 MP).

Fully connected is p2p:

* Star topology is only used for Restricted NAT Type (3) players, which increases lag, depending on where the host is located.

I've posted detailed bandwidth measurements from my router and that was while being the party leader, along with a Party Chat session. 500 Kbps is the peak value I recorded (it's variable).

TL;DR: Everyone needs to have good upload, not just the host.

Ah I see so that's from your own tests, isn't that a bit weird though? 500kbs would result in 1.8 gigs downloaded per hour, that's dissimilar with anything I've seen reported before on PS4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1spnoj/aggregate_data_on_ps4_internet_usage/

That thread reports 200 mb per hour for Killzone Shadowfall, which isn't dissimilar in what it's doing in a multiplayer space to Uncharted 4, and it features many more players. It seems odd that Uncharted 4 would even peak at 500kbs.

 

[Negotiator]

Ah I see so that's from your own tests, isn't that a bit weird though? 500kbs would result in 1.8 gigs downloaded per hour, that's dissimilar with anything I've seen reported before on PS4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1spnoj/aggregate_data_on_ps4_internet_usage/

That thread reports 200 mb per hour for Killzone Shadowfall, which isn't dissimilar in what it's doing in a multiplayer space to Uncharted 4, and it features many more players. It seems odd that Uncharted 4 would even peak at 500kbs.

KZ:SF uses dedicated servers (24 players).

In dedicated servers you send only one stream of data (to the server) and then the server sends the data to the other players. BF4 is the same.

In p2p you send data to everyone, which needs more bandwidth, but it's cheaper for Sony.

ps: Plunder uses less bandwidth (20% less approximately) for this very reason. Less players = less data need to travel around. 3TDM (UC3) is even less than that.

 

[Chronospherics]

KZ:SF uses dedicated servers (24 players).

In dedicated servers you send only one stream of data (to the server) and then the server sends the data to the other players. BF4 is the same.

In p2p you send data to everyone, which needs more bandwidth, but it's cheaper for Sony.

ps: Plunder uses less bandwidth (20% less approximately) for this very reason. Less players = less data need to travel around. 3TDM (UC3) is even less than that.

It's actually 180MB, not 1.8 GB per hour, I miss read Kilobits as killobytes. Which places U4's bandwidth as slightly lower than Shadow Fall, especially so considering the player differences.

I wonder what tickrate Shadowfall is running on, because that bandwidth usage is high compared to B4. They should have made UC4 dedicated, I can imagine high tick rates are harder to achieve on peer to peer.

 

[TimeEffect]

Started getting 100 RP for leveling up

Too bad they pad out the rewards with forced vanity chests and one use boosters.

Do you start to get 125 RP when u hit level 40?

 

[TimeEffect]

Im forced to use wireless and the game sometimes kills my connection

Seems to me that I become host as I get full bars while everyonr has half. Then the game just kicks me.

 

[Negotiator]

It's actually 180MB, not 1.8 GB per hour, I miss read Kilobits as killobytes. Which places U4's bandwidth as slightly lower than Shadow Fall, especially so considering the player differences.

I wonder what tickrate Shadowfall is running on, because that bandwidth usage is high compared to B4. They should have made UC4 dedicated, I can imagine high tick rates are harder to achieve on peer to peer.

High tickrates in dedis means more money for servers (CPU) and bandwidth.

They are "hard" in p2p, because some people still have potato DSL connections (300-400 Kbps upload). In terms of money, it's essentially free (especially in Customs).

ps: It's around 220MB per hour (500 / 8 * 3600 / 1024).

 

[Creaking]

Started getting 100 RP for leveling up

Too bad they pad out the rewards with forced vanity chests and one use boosters.

Do you start to get 125 RP when u hit level 40?

The increased relic gains are still paltry when you consider how long it starts taking to level up. Relics for leveling up should reward more than daily challenges. These can't be repeated, after all.

 

[Chronospherics]

High tickrates in dedis means more money for servers (CPU) and bandwidth.

They are "hard" in p2p, because some people still have potato DSL connections (300-400 Kbps upload). In terms of money, it's essentially free (especially in Customs).

ps: It's around 220MB per hour (500 / 8 * 3600 / 1024).

Yeah I get that it's more expensive.

But Uncharted 4 is also a much more successful game than Killzone Shadowfall.

 

[Negotiator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGhL0_F6Vo

This was a Ranked match with the newest patch/Title Update (v1.11)... good job, ND.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGhL0_F6Vo

This was a Ranked match with the newest patch/Title Update (v1.11)... good job, ND.

Ah, so that's what tickrate does? Or is this something else? I had something crazy like that happen on Island. Two of my teammates got KO'd by an enemy and then I KO'd the enemy. A legit 10 seconds later, ALL THREE players popped back up in their respective spots and I had to KO the enemy again. I've never seen that happen in an MP game before.

 

[Chronospherics]

Ah, so that's what tickrate does? Or is this something else? I had something crazy like that happen on Island. Two of my teammates got KO'd by an enemy and then I KO'd the enemy. A legit 10 seconds later, ALL THREE players popped back up in their respective spots and I had to KO the enemy again. I've never seen that happen in an MP game before.

No that's not tickrate. That's extreme lag between the two players.

Tick rate is how frequently it updates certain information (like your movement / position) onto other players clients. Low tick rate is what causes you to be shot and killed after you have gone behind cover.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

thanks a big ass patch for not a lot of stuff (6gb?!)

 

[Nev]

You guys and tapantaola especially are attacking the wrong people. People with bad connections are not responsible of the game being a laggy mess.

If the bunch of cheap, scammer scoundrels at Sony had the decency of dedicating some servers for their biggest franchise ever, the only people having lag would be those with bad connections.

They use P2P despite charging for an absolutely worthless paywall (PS+), and it's their most important title, how about you start making petitions and attacking them instead of people who can't afford better connections? These people with poor connections wouldn't affect your experience at all if Sony wasn't cheaper than fucking EA. The fact that Uncharted 4 doesn't have dedicated servers is downright insulting and unacceptable, but it's not like it's surprising coming from PS4 era Sony.

 

[#1 defender]

thanks a big ass patch for not a lot of stuff (6gb?!)

It was a bit over 200MB for me. 6GB is probably the accumulative patch size.

 

[WarWolf]

What I don't understand is the presence of Knot and Orca. Maybe they had an actual role in the story before they got scrapped? Otherwise I don't understand why they are there, nobody likes them, they're not actual characters and their dialogue is bland. They're basically generic grunts. The fact that they're playable instead of Pinkerton or even Draza is baffling.

Don't be talkin' mess about Orca, China. He's my favorite villain in mp by far. Also, who are Pinkerton and Draza? Never heard of them.

 

[Rewrite]

Pinkerton is the villain from that visual comic that released in Uncharted 2 and Draza was Lazarevic's main henchman in UC2. And I love Knot. I alternate between him and Flynn.

 

[Negotiator]

You guys and tapantaola especially are attacking the wrong people. People with bad connections are not responsible of the game being a laggy mess.

If the bunch of cheap, scammer scoundrels at Sony had the decency of dedicating some servers for their biggest franchise ever, the only people having lag would be those with bad connections.

They use P2P despite charging for an absolutely worthless paywall (PS+), and it's their most important title, how about you start making petitions and attacking them instead of people who can't afford better connections? These people with poor connections wouldn't affect your experience at all if Sony wasn't cheaper than fucking EA. The fact that Uncharted 4 doesn't have dedicated servers is downright insulting and unacceptable, but it's not like it's surprising coming from PS4 era Sony.

I'm not attacking anyone.

Dedicated servers ain't gonna fix shitty connections, so I don't know what you're arguing here exactly... I've played Killzone SF long enough to know that.

How about making a petition about increasing the tickrate and tightening the white plug, huh? But NO, (public) levels and nerfing the white plug are more important matters!

Also, when exactly did I ask for rank/KDR-based matchmaking? Check the latest patch notes... it's not my fault that I'm playing against Brazil, KSA/UAE etc.

 

[WarWolf]

Pinkerton is the villain from that visual comic that released in Uncharted 2 and Draza was Lazarevic's main henchman in UC2. And I love Knot. I alternate between him and Flynn.

Ah, explains why I've never heard of Pinkerton. Guess I just forgot about Draza, was pretty insignificant himself. Orca and Knot definitely deserve to be in this multiplayer over those guys considering they were actually in UC4.

 

[Creaking]

I've got a lot of my characters dressed for different maps. Sully (with heist outfit and balaclava) is my stealth hero, Rafe (with Scotland outfit and balaclava) is my stealth villain. Knot in his winter gear with a white trucker hat and shades is my Scotland villain. Cutter, with his tuxedo, the monocle + mustache, and a bowler hat is my Auction hero. And so on and so forth.

I do wish they would let us just save several of our own presets and let us pick from those (alongside the standard skins) when it comes time to choose your character. I like having outfits that fit in.

 

[Rewrite]

Ah, explains why I've never heard of Pinkerton. Guess I just forgot about Draza, was pretty insignificant himself. Orca and Knot definitely deserve to be in this multiplayer over those guys considering they were actually in UC4.

Well, only Pinkerton wasn't in UC2. You actually fought Draza in the train section of UC2 dude lol. Knot and Orca barely appeared in UC4 and I'm kinda disappointed. I was waiting for a mini boss fight like Draza or chase scenes like Talbot's in UC3 but they got nothing!

 

[Bunta]

Just bought my third gameplay DLC chest and got the P90.

 

[DaciaJC]

If the bunch of cheap, scammer scoundrels at Sony had the decency of dedicating some servers for their biggest franchise ever, the only people having lag would be those with bad connections.

They use P2P despite charging for an absolutely worthless paywall (PS+), and it's their most important title, how about you start making petitions and attacking them instead of people who can't afford better connections? These people with poor connections wouldn't affect your experience at all if Sony wasn't cheaper than fucking EA. The fact that Uncharted 4 doesn't have dedicated servers is downright insulting and unacceptable, but it's not like it's surprising coming from PS4 era Sony.

Dedicated servers won't guarantee a lag-free experience, but I agree with the sentiment.

 

[Negotiator]

Just had the laggiest match I've ever seen in UC4 MP... there was a KSA host and it took me literally half a minute to respawn. It stayed in the black screen for prolonged time, just like in TLOU MP.

Thank god this game doesn't have weapon/grenade pick ups, or else we'd be screwed with its host selection.

 

[aussiedude08]

after logging in with the new patch today i have like 5000 more relics then i had yesterday. now i can buy the final DLC chest and get path of Indra which would be amazing in Command.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

Just had the laggiest match I've ever seen in UC4 MP... there was a KSA host and it took me literally half a minute to respawn. It stayed in the black screen for prolonged time, just like in TLOU MP.

Thank god this game doesn't have weapon/grenade pick ups, or else we'd be screwed with its host selection.

How do you know where these people are from? Are you analyzing where your traffic is being sent to real-time? If so, how?

after logging in with the new patch today i have like 5000 more relics then i had yesterday. now i can buy the final DLC chest and get path of Indra which would be amazing in Command.

That's not fair! Please gift 1k to me, I'm not greedy.

 

[aussiedude08]

That's not fair! Please gift 1k to me, I'm not greedy.

Just looked on the ND forums, its because it got the explorer pack a few weeks ago, but the coins didnt show up till yesterday. and thats what the 5K relics were for.

Well now i have finished the DLC gameplay chests from relics only, ive been lucky to have some good daily challenges giving me heaps.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

Just looked on the ND forums, its because it got the explorer pack a few weeks ago, but the coins didnt show up till yesterday. and thats what the 5K relics were for.

Well now i have finished the DLC gameplay chests from relics only, ive been lucky to have some good daily challenges giving me heaps.

Ah, fair enough.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

ND must've done something to the points/xp earnings. I used to consistently pull ~3k most matches and now since the leveling implementation, I'm barely breaking the low 2k's.

Anyone else notice the same?

 

[Rewrite]

I swear, matchmaking sucks even more. Christ. I'm still getting placed with the most garbage players playing regular solo TDM while everyone else is a super party with fucking indra extra slow motion spam. My daily challenge is to collect treasures but I keep fucking late joining matches where treasures don't appear. FFS.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

ND must've done something to the points/xp earnings. I used to consistently pull ~3k most matches and now since the leveling implementation, I'm barely breaking the low 2k's.

Anyone else notice the same?

Yes, it's been this way since 1.08 (I guess the leveling patch). I've had dozens of matches that would have broken 4K but ended up in the 3200-3500 range.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

Yes, it's been this way since 1.08 (I guess the leveling patch). I've had dozens of matches that would have broken 4K but ended up in the 3200-3500 range.

:l

Can't have people earning relics at anything other than an abysmal rate, I guess. Gotta push those ridiculously priced micro-transactions somehow.

:l

They need to hurry the hell up with the co-op, the pvp sucks so much in this game. I made a comment the other night how the game can be summed up as so:

"Why should I learn to do ____, when I can let the game do it for me?"

 

[Creaking]

Lol the patch

"Several adjustments to the Matchmaking system, including improved skill-matching for solo players in Matchmaking"


Today I had 3 ranked games where at least one player (once there were two) went 0|0 on my team. Ran into lots of gank squads too. One team had an endless supply of 30% slower indras and all seemed to be equipped with the HS39 (is it supposed to be good? I see it a lot when I'm fighting grouped players)

The only time we won was when I got 23 downs and 19 KOs. I pretty much had to do half the work myself and even then we only won by 4 KOs.

I'll echo some earlier sentiments: how are there so many people that are this bad at the game? And why the hell are they in ranked? Why am I being paired with them? I'll never get out of silver... Gold? Platinum? Diamond? Ha!

 

[Negotiator]

How do you know where these people are from? Are you analyzing where your traffic is being sent to real-time? If so, how?

I saw their names, but I can also see their IP addresses if I want (thanks to p2p).

Spoiler

You need a decent router with Linux CLI to do these stuff....

 

[Reckless Onion]

Matchmaking is so bad right now

 

[Chronospherics]

You guys and tapantaola especially are attacking the wrong people. People with bad connections are not responsible of the game being a laggy mess.

If the bunch of cheap, scammer scoundrels at Sony had the decency of dedicating some servers for their biggest franchise ever, the only people having lag would be those with bad connections.

They use P2P despite charging for an absolutely worthless paywall (PS+), and it's their most important title, how about you start making petitions and attacking them instead of people who can't afford better connections? These people with poor connections wouldn't affect your experience at all if Sony wasn't cheaper than fucking EA. The fact that Uncharted 4 doesn't have dedicated servers is downright insulting and unacceptable, but it's not like it's surprising coming from PS4 era Sony.

I don't know where this came from, I think it was incredibly obvious that Tapantaola was placing blame on the game, Sony and Naughtydog. I think it was made clear by Tapantaola that facing Brazilian players in matchmaking when you are not from South America is a symptom of Naughtydog's failings, and to my knowledge, no one has suggested that the matchmaking and netcode issues are the fault of these players.

Quite the opposite in fact, as the focus of discussion has been on means in which the netcode and matchmaking could be better. I don't think anyone here has been naive enough to suggest that the players in Brazil need to get better connections. Perhaps follow the thread with more vigilance before you accuse people of 'attacking people'.

 

[Negotiator]

I don't know where this came from, I think it was incredibly obvious that Tapantaola was placing blame on the game, Sony and Naughtydog. I think it was made clear by Tapantaola that facing Brazilian players in matchmaking when you are not from South America is a symptom of Naughtydog's failings, and to my knowledge, no one has suggested that the matchmaking and netcode issues are the fault of these players.

Quite the opposite in fact, as the focus of discussion has been on means in which the netcode and matchmaking could be better. I don't think anyone here has been naive enough to suggest that the players in Brazil need to get better connections. Perhaps follow the thread with more vigilance before you accuse people of 'attacking people'.

This.

The fact that ND still refuses to say anything about the netcode is disappointing... :\

 

[Chronospherics]

This.

The fact that ND still refuses to say anything about the netcode is disappointing... :\

Maybe if we generate some buzz about it as a community they'll respond.

I have a website, I can write an article, I'm also a mod on /r/uncharted so I could generate some attention to the issue if it felt warranted.

It's pretty bad, in honesty. I mean, if this peer to peer networking solution was a smooth experience then I wouldn't be complaining, but it feels as though ND have not improved this games networking since Uncharted 2, and it has aged quite poorly since then.

Network performance has been the true blemish on Naughtydog's work in the last 5 years. Their animations, visuals, gameplay, controls, cinematic and overall technical prowess are often seen as being at the top of the industry, so it's astounding that something so integral to the multiplayer experience has been left behind.

 

[AKyemeni]

Maybe if we generate some buzz about it as a community they'll respond.

I have a website, I can write an article, I'm also a mod on /r/uncharted so I could generate some attention to the issue if it felt warranted.

It's pretty bad, in honesty. I mean, if this peer to peer networking solution was a smooth experience then I wouldn't be complaining, but it feels as though ND have not improved this games networking since Uncharted 2, and it has aged quite poorly since then.

Network performance has been the true blemish on Naughtydog's work in the last 5 years. Their animations, visuals, gameplay, controls, cinematic and overall technical prowess are often seen as being at the top of the industry, so it's astounding that something so integral to the multiplayer experience has been left behind.

But then people will start complaining that they can't lag shoot anybody then

 

[Chronospherics]

But then people will start complaining that they can't lag shoot anybody then

How do other games manage though? I mean, how do games like Call of Duty manage to push 30 tickrates on a peer to peer network without preventing their community from exploding?

People often report playing Call of Duty tethered to the phone, and all sorts of janky crap that would definitely white plug you in Uncharted 4, yet the game appears more stable than UC4 is, by quite a margin.

 

[Negotiator]

Maybe if we generate some buzz about it as a community they'll respond.

I have a website, I can write an article, I'm also a mod on /r/uncharted so I could generate some attention to the issue if it felt warranted.

It's pretty bad, in honesty. I mean, if this peer to peer networking solution was a smooth experience then I wouldn't be complaining, but it feels as though ND have not improved this games networking since Uncharted 2, and it has aged quite poorly since then.

Network performance has been the true blemish on Naughtydog's work in the last 5 years. Their animations, visuals, gameplay, controls, cinematic and overall technical prowess are often seen as being at the top of the industry, so it's astounding that something so integral to the multiplayer experience has been left behind.

I've seen/heard lots of people complaining about lag/getting shot behind walls, but few of them know what a tickrate is... if they really knew what's going on behind the scenes, there'd be a riot.

It would be really cool if someone

Spoiler

(sorry, my video editing skills are non-existent)

could make a video about Uncharted's netcode/tickrate like these ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nO9bZm8ceY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COlzIbYQ0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZsy9TeL66g

I don't mind p2p, as long as it works as it should. Even with a boycott, they're not going to add dedicated servers. The MP fanbase probably accounts for 5-10% of their sales. Since they're going to stick to p2p forever, they may as well improve it/offer a compromising solution.

I don't want to buy a PS6 in 2030 and still play with a 15 Hz tickrate, just because ND wants to cater to late 90s broadband connections. Next-gen should apply to everything, not just the graphics engine. It's a shame that nothing substantial has changed since June 2009 (1st UC2 MP beta) netcode/tickrate-wise. It took them 7 years to fix party splits, so maybe there's some hope...

 

[Stallion Dan]

I wish people realized that we don't need stupid solo/parties segregation. Tickrate tweaking could fix so many things in this game...

Even with a good tick rate, a party is gonna steamroll a bunch of solo players. The two are not related at all.

 

[Mike Works]

I wish people realized that we don't need stupid solo/parties segregation. Tickrate tweaking could fix so many things in this game...

I wish people realized that we don't need stupid gun control Curing cancer could save so many lives in this world...

 

[Negotiator]

Even with a good tick rate, a party is gonna steamroll a bunch of solo players. The two are not related at all.

Not always. As I said, I was doing fine against parties in TLOU MP during the experimental weekend and I know I wasn't the only one. Care to explain this?

It's like saying that a party with mics will steamroll a party with no mics. Sure, a mic (and a party) helps, but should they also make mic and no mic playlists according to your logic? I remember playing TO pub matches with PSU_Nick and StardustSpeedway (IIRC) against a famous FN clan in UC3 MP and we won them 4 times in a row. They all had mics and we didn't.

There are no quit penalties, so feel free to quit if you think the odds are against you. All I want is to be able to use cover effectively. Is that too much to ask for? Solo or parties, it doesn't matter when the cover mechanic (essential in TPS) is broken for many reasons.

Low tickrate promotes camping. Parties do camp a lot. Solo players run around. It's not that hard to figure out why they lose. Lack of (strict) playlist segregation is not the answer.

 

[Negotiator]

I wish people realized that we don't need stupid gun control Curing cancer could save so many lives in this world...

LOL, nice strawman.

But if you really want an analogy, curing cancer is the equivalent of having dedicated servers in ND games. It will never happen. I'm asking for things that can be done (as Erin Daly has proved), not unicorns and flowers.

 

[Mike Works]

LOL, nice strawman.

I'll sit you down one day and explain the difference between a strawman and an analogy. But for now we'll just agree to disagree on the disparity between a party and a group of randoms.

 

[Negotiator]

I'll sit you down one day and explain the difference between a strawman and an analogy. But for now we'll just agree to disagree on the disparity between a party and a group of randoms.

What exactly did you try to accomplish with the gun control/cancer cure nonsense? Before you do that, maybe I'll have to sit you down one day and explain you why further segregation can kill a niche MP game. This isn't CoD/BF/CS.

I guess you're one of those "Bow is OP/Tactical Shotty pay2win" casuals that cried for no parties, right? And when you got no parties, you still cried about brainless teammates.

I don't mind parties and I explained why and in which circumstances. I value low latency/high tickrate more than anything else. A good netcode allows me to fight against parties, even though you clearly think that's impossible. To each his own.

 

[Stallion Dan]

How do other games manage though? I mean, how do games like Call of Duty manage to push 30 tickrates on a peer to peer network without preventing their community from exploding?

People often report playing Call of Duty tethered to the phone, and all sorts of janky crap that would definitely white plug you in Uncharted 4, yet the game appears more stable than UC4 is, by quite a margin.

A while ago I used my phones 4G and connected my PS4 to it, I played UC4 without any notable differences. Slight extra bit of lag now and again and occasional white plug for a moment in some matches.

Is no reason cannot improve tick rate other than they want as many people playing no matter the quality of the game.