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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
Let's calm down, RE4 is one of the best games ever.
CrichtonKicks
Member
2 is still dotted with routine combat encounters that are interspersed in all of that. As progressive as UC2 is in a lot of places they were still afraid of having your character travel from Point A to Point B without shooting the entire way.
I guess it depends on whether you would rather spend the downtime between unique combat scenarios doing routine shootouts or doing traversal/exploration. I get why some prefer the former but I prefer the latter.
Chapter 12 is
At Sea
I spent many hours staring at the chapter select screen deep in thought.
Trigonometrize.
Member
The chapters are a bit longer so they generally capture a more distinct segment. I couldn't for the life of me tell you which Uncharted 2 chapter is which, and I like that game more.
Spring-Loaded
Member
And I'd gladly take part in 2's "routine," encounters because they were fun, even at their most basic. They always had a sense of direction, and never drifted into UC1's completely static, dull-arena territory. Like I said, every one of those shootouts had something memorable about them. I don't at all mind 4's being less "designed," and directed , but I was really hurting for more of those.
I can't remember for the most part, that's for sure. But I do remember being stuck in that THIEF room after not knowing how to trigger the next cutscene for a long-ass time, and then it just triggering out of nowhere
RespectThySole
Member
The structure is not remotely similar. 16-18 function as a refreshing change of pace to the constant action in that game and those chapters weren't as dull as some of the downtime ones in UC4. The game then ramps right back up. Compare that to UC4 where we have
the slow opening third, 12-16, 19 & 21.
platforming in the latter half of 8 and 9 are reminiscent of the ice cave from Uncharted 2.
I hardly even understand how that is possible.
RespectThySole
Member
Well I started replaying the game the day after I finished it so I know exactly how every section goes
Net_Wrecker
Member
Like Papercuts said, I spent quite a few hours the other night staring at the Chapter/Encounter select in disbelief, jumping in and out different areas wondering if I was right in feeling the way I do. When looking at the experience from a pacing perspective, you can quickly attach different events to their respective chapters because there are only a few major beats in these chapters.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
When that setpiece finished i went wow, thats one of the best setpieces i have ever played.
But then the game doesnt top it. And when compared to the previous setpieces like the cruise ship where an entire level is built around the ship turning and twisting, and the train level where you fight not one but two bosses over the course of two levels, it starts to become apparent that there is nothing like that in U4. I used to make fun of Tomb Raider setpiece that basically consist of lara running while shit blew around her and i was shocked to see thats basically the extent of setpieces in U4 other than the E3 setpiece.
CrichtonKicks
Member
What was memorable about the fights inside the hotel? And first fight after you meet up with Jeff and Elena? Or the courtyard fight when emerging from the temple with Choe? Or the fight just after crossing the river? All of these are the very definition of routine arena fights. Which isn't a criticism- but they aren't really memorable at all. The only reason I can rattle them off now is that I've played UC2 a bunch of times including just a week ago.
But both the train and ship levels were smack in the middle of UC2 and UC3. So they arguably don't top their signature set pieces either.
For me, I would say that Chapter 20 was an even better sequence than the E3 UC4 demo.
Belgian Dude
Member
So, Chapter 4...
Am I really playing Crash Bandicoot. What is this. What is this and why is this so great.
Insane Metal
Member
Just wait until you
play it again later.
And I'm like 'yeah, there's no way
Crash
RespectThySole
Member
OrbitalBeard
Member
Belgian Dude, don't read the two posts below yours. And yeah, Chapter 4 is fantastic.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Bruh if there were puzzles in that chapter I don't remember them at all, so you might be right.
This "Every shootout must be super memorable" sentiment is something I don't necessarily agree with. Sure a lot of those smaller encounters are "routine" but I still love how they feel within the flow of UC2's pacing. They're placed firmly within the forward momentum, they offer consistent short bursts of action, they aren't too over the top, and they keep me engaged because combat- as simple as it might be- is still the most complex gameplay system in Uncharted.
In UC4, sure they're all memorable, but that's only because the game ramps up to a 10 from a 2 every single time, and there are like 400 less enemies. You remember them more because there aren't a lot of them to remember. I'd rather forget a few encounters (like how many great shootouts there are in the Monestary in UC2) than remember all of them but be begging for more action.
The convoy and tank set pieces are easily on par with the train in UC2. So much so that ND has referenced both of them multiple times going forward, even in TLOU.
Lol yeah wtf. Why spoil that for the dude?
RespectThySole
Member
I don't really get the sentiment that every firefight has to be "grand."
In my mind, 9 is an excellent game, 10 is an excellent game, with just that something more to make it stand out.
Scores go along with feelings i have for a game though, more than a mathematical conclusion.
The Last of Us does not touch everybody's souls. Some people feel as though they see through it.
I also strongly dislike The Last of Us
In other news this game is unervingly realistic
WAR recon zero
Banned
Goty
9/10
2>4>ga>1
I missed 3
9/10
2>4>ga>1
I missed 3
CrichtonKicks
Member
I agree- I'm just pushing back against the narrative that every encounter in UC2 was somehow memorable, unique, and inventive. Because they weren't. But boy there sure were a lot of them that were pretty awesome.
And I totally get if you want to use these routine encounters as the filler between the unique scenarios. I think that's fine but that's also what pretty much every single game does. So I find it far more interesting when game designers are feeling confident in just forgoing combat if it isn't adding something. I think that Chapter 16-18 break in UC2 is driving a lot of the design decisions in every ND game since and I applaud them for it even if it isn't working for everybody. I think this stuff is a major step forward for the genre.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's not about each of those shootouts being super memorable in their entirely — it's that there's something distinct one can remember about each of them.
Hotel had the part after the street-level shootout (where it starts with you stealing an RPG, then a truck full of dudes shows up) had the first armored dude come out of an elevator, iirc. Then you have to climb outside the building (novel/gorgeous at the time), then have the fight where you mokey-bar climb over the street to another building with guys looking out a window, then you fight up some stairs, end up in a kitchen where the floor/ceiling was blown up so that it was open to the sky, and climb back to the elevator, stuart up the power and then it's Marco Polo time followed by the sick helicopter chase/fight.
I can remember everything about the post-temple fight you have three companions for the first time, and there's a fountain in the middle. All that right after the helicopter chase/fight btw. After-river fight has dudes on a turret that you have to flank (first turret that dudes actually use? there was one in the truck earlier after the "desperate times, grab the RPG," fight). Then an armored dude along with some of those pistole balaclava guys come through, and you get to use the turret on them.
And it's fun. The game's basic control scheme revolves around shootouts, and UC2 is a TPS through and through, first and foremost. Whether you remember every little fight doesn't somehow make them lesser — they're engaging, and while playing the game, they spice things up and make the most of the game's core mechanics.
Right after finishing 2, I distinctly remember realizing I could recall whole chunks of that game on a moment-to-moment basis because it was that engaging. I cannot do that with 1 at all as there are many fights that are just shooting galleries with nothing that stands out about them. I also can't do that with some of 4's more laid back sequences, and this wasn't a series I was playing for moments like that to be a third of the game time.
So yes, UC2's shootouts all have something about them that is distinct, and mostly to the point that long swaths of downtime aren't needed to break up the combat because it's always doing something different. I wouldn't mind back-to-back areas like the shootouts at the outposts in Madagascar, but they could feel like the same thing repeated for people, even though there's a lot more options available to the players.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I mean we are basically saying "oh that's the first armored trooper where the game teaches you about blind fire" and "oh, there is a turret" and "there was a fountain in the coutryard" are all that it takes to be memorable and unique? Seriously, flank the turret and then use it on a spawning wave of enemies was already rote by the the time UC2 came out. Hell, Gears 1 has it in one of the first levels.
I love UC2, including the basic combat mechanics, but there is nothing unique about that stuff at all.
Spring-Loaded
Member
There really aren't any shootouts in 2 that are treated as filler. They're the bread and butter of the game, so it stands to reason they'd be the go-to type of gameplay.
And yes, every encounter in 2 does something new within the game it isn't always some huge bombastic scenario like the towers collapsing in the monastery, but there's always something being explored through the game design.
The one puzzle in
I was going through each combination for the three tiles and was just about to get the correct combo before going into the room...but then Nathan stops you and says "no there are way too many permutations" forcing you to figure out the real solution lol.
the Madagascar tower
It's cool to prefer UC2's roller coaster pacing but UC4 is a different game. It's got different pacing, different tone, different intentions altogether. Almost every chapter feels like its own self-contained journey, and like something that couldn't really be done outside of video games.
UC2 and UC3 did the set piece thing so well that Naughty Dog would have been silly to try to recapture that magic. Instead they've gone for something more sprawling yet more intimate and emotional. Something that evokes actual travel through these environments. So much of this game is trying to make you feel like a puny human struggling against the mind-blowing immensity of its universe. And at that I think they've succeeded.
UC2 and UC3 did the set piece thing so well that Naughty Dog would have been silly to try to recapture that magic. Instead they've gone for something more sprawling yet more intimate and emotional. Something that evokes actual travel through these environments. So much of this game is trying to make you feel like a puny human struggling against the mind-blowing immensity of its universe. And at that I think they've succeeded.
GodParticle
Member
Finally got past the time remaining error and finished. Overall a great ending to the series. U2 is still my favorite, but this was damn close.
The only real nitpicks I have are that I would have liked some different enemy types. Maybe even something supernatural toward the end to mix things up. The other is that a few of the areas were kind of large with not much going on in them
I think my rankings would be 2,4,1,3,,,,,,,,,TLoU(couldn't stand that game)
The only real nitpicks I have are that I would have liked some different enemy types. Maybe even something supernatural toward the end to mix things up. The other is that a few of the areas were kind of large with not much going on in them
I think my rankings would be 2,4,1,3,,,,,,,,,TLoU(couldn't stand that game)
CrichtonKicks
Member
This stuff above is the very definition of TPS filler.
What was being explored in game design in the post temple couryard fight? It's not the first time you have the AI helping you either.
Cloud Strife
Member
Just finished the game, best uncharted and GOTY for me right now over DKS3. This game was phenomenal, and the ending was soooo gooood
Net_Wrecker
Member
I'd be more impressed with their confidence to offer more traversal sections if there were more
Clocktowers and Chapter 21 platforming sequences
Don't get me wrong though, I respect Uncharted 4. I know this is exactly the game ND wanted to make (can't say the same for UC3), and I understand why the people that love it do. I'm sure this will be many people's GOTY, and I won't fight them on that, the same way I didn't fight people praising MGSV even though that game left me TOTALLY empty.
I can understand the praise that UC2 gets for mixing up the enemy encounters, but the combat isn't that meaty enough for it to be like this HUGE deal to me.
At the end of the day you revert to the same ole tactics to get rid of them, besides the armored enemies of course.
Which are lame in each of the games.
At the end of the day you revert to the same ole tactics to get rid of them, besides the armored enemies of course.
Which are lame in each of the games.
Fancy Clown
Member
Made it to the PSX demo area. Great encounter, as expected. But the lack of encounters is really starting to bring me down a bit. It makes me sad because everything in the game is pretty much perfect, like I love all the non combat stuff and I don't think it goes on too long, I just think the combat doesnt go on nearly long enough. Like this would be a 10/10 game if they just put MORE of their glorious combat in. Like even compared to TLOU they slashed the hell out of the number of encounters in this. Like it's only a couple per chapter thus far and they are never back to back. I really don't understand the choice there for that. Like Chapter 12 would have been so much better as a catharsis chapter if 11 hadn't just been the one setpiece. It needed a string of combat encounters escalating to that big sequence, so then 12 would feel like a sigh of relief instead of just more business as usual (albeit excellent business as usual).
Still loving it but fuck...I wish they could like patch in more combat or something lol
Still loving it but fuck...I wish they could like patch in more combat or something lol
MMaRsu
Member
When the game first released, the concept of "traversal gunplay" was fairly unique. The fact that you could basically fire you weapon in any situation, whether you were climbing, jumping or running across moving objects was not something that could be done in most third person shooters at the time.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I just wished it was used more in UC2. I felt like they did a good job with it in Chapter 5 when it was first introduced but it fell by the wayside about after that because the level design wasn't really very accommodating to it. I felt like UC3 did a better job at designing levels around it.
GodParticle
Member
The whole thing. It just didn't click(lul) with me
Oh of course, there's no 3rd person shooter quite like UC.
But as far as combat goes, I can name a few TPSs that do it better.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I didn't even need more set-pieces, just more open combat segments because that's easily the most fun part of the game for me. Wandering around those gorgeous spaces will only be engaging for a few playthroughs as they only offer notes, treasures and scenery.
What constitutes filler then? If the core gameplay is filler, then what of walking segments, or the braindead puzzles that got somewhat better as the series went on?
I'm not even sure what you're trying to refute at this point. Was it the "2 has the most, and best 'designed,' encounters," thing? Because by "designed," I talk of guided encounters like the sign shootout that makes you use cover that you're climbing around on. There's a distinction to be made between those and the ones typically found in 4 that are really open. 4's shootouts that are more funneled, linear affairs aren't as numerous as they are in 2 which has itself has nothing like what's in 4, or the ship graveyard one in 3.
You're really hung-up on the "memorable," comment — but it's straight-up true that there's always some deliberately-placed characteristic to subsequent encounters in 2, and even something as straight-forward as the first few shootouts in 2 at Lazarevic's camp has some direction with the three paths. And even if you can't accept that that's the case for every shootout, there's no downplaying the truly standout ones in the game. And yeah, having three people accompany you in a fight is something new in 2 at that point, and it's the start of a series of gameplay segments, rather than being followed up with something like the empty treasure THIEF room in 4.
What do you think the core gameplay is in 2, or the series as a whole?
It really seems like there's a a lack of acceptance of people valuing different aspects of the series.
What about the sign shootout? Or the train's rooftop/interior options?
EDIT: or the village segments where you're climbing up and down through homes and on top of buildings? And the monastery towers?
Just finished the game(fastest I've cleared an Uncharted game) and overall enjoyed it quite a bit. The scenery was insanely gorgeous and the story was still as fun and dramatic as previous games.
The ending reminded me of
The ending reminded me of
TLOU opening which had me laughing that the game would end on an apocalyptic note.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Do people find the climbing segments in 4 substantial enough to carry the game at length? They're the best they've been in the series, but I can't say whether it's because they've finally allowed for the right amount of freedom/variables in movement, or if I just haven't tested the boundaries and noticed how automated it still is.
CrichtonKicks
Member
The distinction I'm making is that the sign shootout is wholly different than a bog standard flank the turret encounter. The former is what makes Uncharted, well Uncharted. The latter is in tons of games and doesn't stand out at all. But it doesn't mean that flanking the turret isn't fun.
And I think the UC4 spoiler
Jeep elevator sequence
I'm not downplaying them. I'm saying that people exaggerate and present UC2 like the entire game is made up of them when it's not.
TPS combat (characterized by the need for a high degree of mobility and improvisation) combined with a fair bit of traversal and puzzle solving. The distinct mix of these elements is different in every single UC game.
I didn't say Chapter 5 was the only place. Just that it wasn't used as frequently as I would have liked. I think UC3 did a better job at accomodating that throughout the whole game compared to UC2.
This is excatly my opinion.
Everything in the game is so perfect except the long slow time. I want to use the stealth and the new fighting mechanics more and more but I didn't get that, unfortunatley.
The only thing left for ND to make up for us is by making the DLC have huge set pieces ( more than just one ) and increase the number of the encounters but at the same time make some slow time here and there. The perfect example of that is TLOU, where you don't mind the slow time but instead you start to love it because of the big and long fights you've been doing before that. This what they should keep doing.
I started to feel Left Behind is the responsible for what happend to UC4. Left Behind is so good for being a DLC but not that good to build an entire game around that concept. It will hurt the replay value so much because when you want to replay a game again is beacuse the epic fights and the epic set pieces and you will feel furstarted when you ended up doing the same slow and long time again.
I bought the remastared of TLOU and I finished the game more than one time but I couldn't even replay Left Behind because I know it has long slow time.
For me, ND has only one chance to make it up which is the next DLC. It will determine my faith on them.
Jack Scofield
Member
In Chapter 12 and dived under the water near a sunken ship. Jaw on the floor.