I will offer an alternate explanation.
Being kind doesn't mean much unless you have the choice to be cruel.
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Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales
- Thread starter Earthpainting
- Start date
I will offer an alternate explanation.
These are good examples of why I just looked up what to do after my first try despite spoiling a bit of the story as a result. The game doesn't do anything to assure you that
you'll still be eligible to get the true pacifist ending after Asgore is killed
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
JonathanNemo
Member
I like Grimm's Fairy Tales for one reason, you have to take the good with the bad.
This game's narrative resonates with me in that way.
I'll admit that I was really reluctant to see how this game would handle behaving badly from the demo. But, that was before the final game
made clear that nobody wins here. Not you. Not Flowey, who wanted to revive the person he thought was his best friend. Maybe the Fallen Child, but to them it's all just a game, who gives a shit, switch it off, let's move on to the next.
There's a point of view here that I find interesting. Especially now.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
There does seem to be a lack of choice at times with that game.
zero shift
Banned
So I am currently fighting
. Is fighting him the only way to beat him or can I talk my way out of it or use an item or something? I have
Asgore
0 LOVE or EXP
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
zero shift
Banned
So I beat the
is there anything else i have to do? He said something about
Flower Monster
seeing Undyne so I went to the skeleton brothers house and she wasn't there.
Replay and
don't kill anyone. It's worth it, trust me
Go to
Waterfall, she's in a house near (but not on the same screen) as Napstablook's
zero shift
Banned
zero shift
Banned
Got the happy ending. Much better ending, but I would still love if the game ended right when
I know it would be out of the game's tone but I thought it was really cool.
But yeah great game, but not my GOTY.
the flower killed the king and closed the game for the first time.
But yeah great game, but not my GOTY.
Ultimadrago
Member
I've finally had a chance to play through this game. I introduced my sister to it thanks to the Internet and then she introduced it to me by egging me on to start it. I wouldn't say it's too outstanding, but it was a quite enjoyable experience experience still.
I didn't even let Dr.
ruin the game for me! (Seriously, that character almost made me want to stop playing.) Would. Not. Shut. Up.
Toriel's emotional beats starting off the game really resonated with me and I found myself many times
. So when I
, I felt more satisfied in those moments than from any other accomplishment leading up to it. ❤❤❤
Jokes that I would traditionally walk away from had me reading more intently as I read them from Sans and Papyrus. The two were just "fun" to have around and they really didn't leave any sour notes behind even with all of their boney puns. In turn, I had a great time watching them have fun taking the piss and laughing every second off. I also saw the
Holy crap...
Moving on, the soundtrack was on point. There were few games written in my books for Best Soundtrack (which is more of a personal list I don't care to post on forums or anything). Undertale handily is taking my 2nd place from 2015, which I think is amazing. I would have never expected anything like that. The tunes are catchy and the boss themes rip through my heart as I dodged attacks...with my heart!
Good game, good experience. I'm glad I played it! Shoutouts to my sis who got me to play it before the possible chance of getting spoiled by idiots online. *thumbs up*
P.S. I
Undyne All Day, Every Day.
I didn't even let Dr.
Alphys' excrutiatingly annoying personality
Toriel's emotional beats starting off the game really resonated with me and I found myself many times
attempting to call her cell throughout the game, just to hear her comfort the playable character more, to no avail of course
completed True Pacifist
Jokes that I would traditionally walk away from had me reading more intently as I read them from Sans and Papyrus. The two were just "fun" to have around and they really didn't leave any sour notes behind even with all of their boney puns. In turn, I had a great time watching them have fun taking the piss and laughing every second off. I also saw the
Genocide Final Boss Fight, on video after completing the game.
Moving on, the soundtrack was on point. There were few games written in my books for Best Soundtrack (which is more of a personal list I don't care to post on forums or anything). Undertale handily is taking my 2nd place from 2015, which I think is amazing. I would have never expected anything like that. The tunes are catchy and the boss themes rip through my heart as I dodged attacks...with my heart!
Good game, good experience. I'm glad I played it! Shoutouts to my sis who got me to play it before the possible chance of getting spoiled by idiots online. *thumbs up*
P.S. I
cook with
Stone Ocean
Member
Yes.
After you beat her you can go to her house provided you did the same with Papyrus
Shotgun Kiss
Member
The content in a
Genocide run
1) Close to the start of the game, Sans warns you that if you continue the way you're going, you're going to have a bad time. It's not just lip-service; that's a warning to you the player. Continuing a Genocide run removes a lot of content from the game, can be quite tedious (as you have to wander around in every area for all enemies to kill), culminates in a final battle designed to be incredibly difficult/frustrating, and clearing it forever affects the ending of any future Pacifist runs you do as it ends with you selling your soul to reset everything.
2) In the fight with Sans, he specifically urges you not to fight because you may have previously been friends in another life. In other words, a previous playthrough. He urges you to quit, and that's a direct plea to you the player to abandon the Genocide run. Eventually, he accepts that that you won't give up, because he realises that you're doing the Genocide run because you "can". And because you "can", you "have to". In other words, he's acknowledging the completionist nature of hardcore gamers.
3) If you accept Sans' offer to spare you, he actually instakills you, and on the Game Over screen, he says that if you really are friends, you won't come back. Again, that's him telling you the player to abandon your run and start over.
4) Towards the end of the game, Flowey delivers a monologue on how he started viewing the world after he gained the ability to save/reload. He started doing all kinds of different things to people (helping/killing/etc) just to see how they'd react, and eventually he viewed them as "programs", since he knew exactly how they'd react to everything. He points out that you're no different, and for many people, that's true. A lot of people who play games do things like kill people and reload just to explore different outcomes.
5) Undertale can detect if video image recording software is being used, and if so, during Flowey's monologue, he'll claim that he and the player are at least better than the people watching, as they don't have the spine to do it themselves. I watched a Genocide run on Youtube, and the game was actually speaking to me as a viewer.
2) In the fight with Sans, he specifically urges you not to fight because you may have previously been friends in another life. In other words, a previous playthrough. He urges you to quit, and that's a direct plea to you the player to abandon the Genocide run. Eventually, he accepts that that you won't give up, because he realises that you're doing the Genocide run because you "can". And because you "can", you "have to". In other words, he's acknowledging the completionist nature of hardcore gamers.
3) If you accept Sans' offer to spare you, he actually instakills you, and on the Game Over screen, he says that if you really are friends, you won't come back. Again, that's him telling you the player to abandon your run and start over.
4) Towards the end of the game, Flowey delivers a monologue on how he started viewing the world after he gained the ability to save/reload. He started doing all kinds of different things to people (helping/killing/etc) just to see how they'd react, and eventually he viewed them as "programs", since he knew exactly how they'd react to everything. He points out that you're no different, and for many people, that's true. A lot of people who play games do things like kill people and reload just to explore different outcomes.
5) Undertale can detect if video image recording software is being used, and if so, during Flowey's monologue, he'll claim that he and the player are at least better than the people watching, as they don't have the spine to do it themselves. I watched a Genocide run on Youtube, and the game was actually speaking to me as a viewer.
The existence of the
Genocide run
I will never play
a Genocide run
Ultimadrago
Member
I really, really wanted to
. but I was warned about that stupid
.
On one hand, it upsets me that any game with multiple endings would pull that crap. However, in light of the story, it's explained enough to the point where I can't stay upset at it. I loved watching a playthrough of it though. Considering some of the middle portions of the game, it's considerably more interesting versus the alternative.
start with Genocide first
"Tainting" caused by going Genocide before Pacifist
On one hand, it upsets me that any game with multiple endings would pull that crap. However, in light of the story, it's explained enough to the point where I can't stay upset at it. I loved watching a playthrough of it though. Considering some of the middle portions of the game, it's considerably more interesting versus the alternative.
Every preceding boss fight requires you to do something unorthodox to win without fighting. Discounting Muffet, who's not a major character, picking Spare hasn't won a boss fight since Papyrus. Leading up to Asgore, various characters discuss the possibility of whether you can get through to him without fighting, and in the end, both Undyne and Sans are confident that you'll find a way somehow.
When you finally reach Asgore he clearly doesn't want to fight you as much as you don't want to fight him. During the fight you can do several things that clearly get to him such as talking, eating Toriel's pie in front if him, and telling him how many times he's killed you. When none of these work, and in the end he forces you to be willing to kill him, what does that say about him?
When you finally reach Asgore he clearly doesn't want to fight you as much as you don't want to fight him. During the fight you can do several things that clearly get to him such as talking, eating Toriel's pie in front if him, and telling him how many times he's killed you. When none of these work, and in the end he forces you to be willing to kill him, what does that say about him?
JonathanNemo
Member
You can dip the toes just far enough that you reset right when a certain character tells you to give up. That won't have any negativo consequences.
And I'll have you know there's more details to it than that little compilation video that's been a-circulating. Many, many more.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
What video are you referring to? I watched this, which shows all the differences in a
Genocide run
Oh man, I hope you waited until you beat the game before watching that. Nobody should play/watch
a Genocide run
If you buy any of the items from her bake sale, the boss fight won't even begin; she'll appear in the corridor, but allow you to pass. However, the items are 9999G each. Even if you can afford them, it's absolutely not worth it.
However, in the Ruins at the start of the game, there's a spider bake sale where you can buy items for around 18G. If you do so, Muffet will still battle you, but if you use the item in battle, it immediately ends the fight.
However, in the Ruins at the start of the game, there's a spider bake sale where you can buy items for around 18G. If you do so, Muffet will still battle you, but if you use the item in battle, it immediately ends the fight.
JonathanNemo
Member
I mean it's not like I'm going to outright say what else is there y'know.
*eyes turn a healthy reddish color*
(no that isn't a spoiler)
Ultimadrago
Member
Interesting, thanks.
I certainly believe it! The amount of details put in this title are incredible.
Oh yeah, I made sure to.
glaringradio
Member
Just played this after hearing so much about it. Knew there was a pacifism thing going on, so went to go for the full pacifist run the first time through. Got stuck a few times, but yeah, that was one hell of a game.
So beautiful, can't decide what my favourite character/area/song from the game is. Felt like I was playing something truly special and would honestly be surprised if I ever got to play anything like it again in my life time.
So good. Read up a bit on genocide and yeah, I'm not going to be doing that. Couldn't bring myself to it after just experiencing a game that filled me so full of happiness.
So beautiful, can't decide what my favourite character/area/song from the game is. Felt like I was playing something truly special and would honestly be surprised if I ever got to play anything like it again in my life time.
So good. Read up a bit on genocide and yeah, I'm not going to be doing that. Couldn't bring myself to it after just experiencing a game that filled me so full of happiness.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
You definitely got the Pacifist ending, right?
glaringradio
Member
I did... I think?
Papyrus being the first monster humans should be introduced to in god knows how long? Good luck with that! I loved Toriel coming in at the end and leaving some Butterscotch Pie, such a nice way to tie it all up.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Yeah, you did.
oh yeah I thought she was fucking awful, and both me and my friend thought her whole thing with
Undyne
She's just a nasty tumblr otaku self insert, really. Gross.
You can flee too but play the way you want.
TurboLibre
Member
I wouldn't worry. It's just minor dialogue here and there, it's not like it stops you from progressing. And honestly, I think that could be a very good way to experience the game given the context of the genocide run and the overall story.
But I'd warn against it because the fights in that run will most likely burn you out.
Play how you want.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That's what makes it great though. You're not above consequences.
chaobreaker
Member
Makes sense. I just wrapped up my pacifist run and found out
from Asriel that the first human was probably a bit of a sociopathic prick during their time underground so I guess there's some justification for it's general bloodlust.
Anyway, I'm done with the game.
Won't ever do a genocide run. I know it's just a game but I've grown attached to the cast of characters and would not like watching them suffer just to sate my curiosity.
Ultimadrago
Member
Yeah, I would likely get burnt out in truth with the grinding.
And you see, I agree, that's a part of what makes Undertale's consequential mechanics cohesive.
As a player, I want to be able to see everything at my own beat and drum cherrypicking which consequences I "live" with and which I do not. However, as a player, I also respect the game's takes on potential regret and
living with the choices you make
That's a part of what makes Undertale something special from 2015. It's not just a quip here and a reference there (in this case). The writing goes far to make you understand you're being watched and that
the world does not forget all that you think it does nor should simply by pressing "Reset" on the console
That is arguably the entire point really.
chaobreaker
Member
Another thing:
I thought it was dumb that the game threw a "you were possessed by the spirit of a murderous child the whole time" plot point at the last moment just to justify all the vile shit the player character could or could've done. This is revealed on the end of both the genocide and pacifist run. I think the implications of killing everyone just because you can would have had more sticking power if it wasn't due to the first human apparently compelling you to.
JonathanNemo
Member
I guess that makes sense if
Frisk is you.
three characters here; Frisk, Chara, and you. You are not Frisk, you are never Frisk. You are simply, the player
I mean I'm totally assuming author's intent here but that's how I'm reading into the plot. It's how OFF distanced the player from its avatar, except
we have two levels of "avatar" here. Good avatar and bad avatar. One presents closure, the other just straight up seizes the ball from you after Asgoretimes.
zero shift
Banned
Am I the only one who thought it would have been cool if the game ended
Either way some game has to end like that.
right when the flower kills the King and says "In this world it is either kill or be killed" and closes the game window during the Normal Ending?
Conor_Fool
Banned
I'm playing through this for the first time and I'm about 4 hours in. I...saw some shit and I'm really bummed. Neutral spoilers and check first tag
Okay.
do not look at these spoilers if you don't know why I'm putting a tag here
Okay.
I fucking killed like two enemies at the very beginning and ate a carrot or two. I am really bummed because now my save is apparently tainted? I am at Undyne right now and she hates me for killing two monsters, which I immediately felt bad about. After losing to her a couple times I want to kill her, but that aside... Is my game forever tainted because I didn't go full pacifist? I wanted to go genocide next playthrough as I'm 3-4 hours in and havent killed anything since the beginning, so a "pacifist" playthrough would be the exact same thing I'm doing right now. Will that make it so I can't do a full pacifist?
SmartWaffles
Member
If you kill ANYTHING that is not So Sorry and one another side mob, your current run is ruined, your only option for a pacifist run is resetting the game.
Conor_Fool
Banned
And say I finish the game and don't kill a single other thing. Is the only way to start the next playthrough to reset the game, or does it give you a different option? I'm worried about my metagame being tainted, not this playthrough. The fact that a mistake I made in the first 10 minutes has fucked me, now I want to kill shit (that I don't like, haha). I'm just confused. I wish I coulda beaten the game before I learned about the metagame
something I did in the first few minutes affects the rest of my metagame
After a
neutral ending where you had 0 kills, you can restart right before the Asgore fight allowing you to do all the events needed go get to the full pacifist ending.
Conor_Fool
Banned
Thanks everyone!
Tizoc
Member
Thanks for that will do it once i get back home