Most fanfic tends to be...iffy, but the gems are worth it. I just really like "what if?" scenarios.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales
- Thread starter Earthpainting
- Start date
Most fanfic tends to be...iffy, but the gems are worth it. I just really like "what if?" scenarios.
I basically went through the Neutral run without knowing what I was doing and killing my share of monsters just through not understanding how to spare them. I didn't even know if I could spare
Undyne.
Flowey
It's pretty easy for min-maxers to cheat themselves out of an organic experience in Undertale. I loved my Pacifist run as much as I did because of the sheer contrast with the original run and the way your preconceptions of characters are absolutely shattered when you befriend them (many details, like the water cooler in Hotland, went completely over my head the first time through and absolutely staggered me on the Pacifist run). If you go through the first run sparing everyone because you know it's "one of those games," eh, that's sort of boring, right?
It's hard to predict how people are going to be influenced to play, though, so I'm not sure that this is a reaction you can control.
Rockman Wright
Banned
at first i began the game spoiler free, but while i was doing it, i listened to some music and stumbled on the pacifist run name by mistake, but it didn't change my way to play!
kurona_bright
Neo Member
I mean, I went through game like 99% blind my first time through - not counting the ruins, because I had played the demo a year or 2 earlier. And because of my experience with that demo, I went for a pacifist run the first time through, and I honestly don't think I missed out on anything. Everything was new, everything was exciting, and the game still managed to blow my mind.
Even if you know that it's possible to spare everyone (I mean, just look at the tagline), the game still manages to surprise you with humor or the way game mechanics shift and twist. It still felt very 'organic' to me.
So just play the game (and maybe leave this thread, because there are a lot of spoilers here) and I hope you enjoy it!
meltingparappa
Member
That actually might be the second hardest battle in the game (the first one is obvious if you know what I'm talking about) because it's possible to save right before it without having any health items, and you just have survive all those rounds perfectly.Just fought Undyne.
Fuck this game. I want to smash my keyboard.
Well, in fact I did.
/RAGE
Yeah, I know I have to Flee. BUT COME ON!
If he does a balancing patch later, I hope he finds a way around that possible scenario.
That very last wave of yellows that she sends at you is killer. I always got completely flustered by them and just luckily got through on a random try.
The only "Spoiler" i was exposed to was that to get the best ending i had to go full pacifist (which i was gonna do anyway because not killing was one of the game's biggest selling points for me) but also i was semi spoilered
Asriel in his kid form
For all i knew, i even thought he might have been the main character turned goat or something
M0nochromatic
Member
I had seen the first half of the game on Lets Plays before deciding to play myself. The Super Best Friends bad run really made me want to go play it myself, and even from when I first saw the game I knew I wanted to play the pacifict.
No MERCY run:
I was listening to the OST on youtube when I stumbled across the Sans fight, and it really floored me. I never want to actually run it, but it has the coolest fights and songs. The bad end really was well done, and I saw it before I finished my neutral run. I loved that the game called me out for watching it.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Is he? Or are you?
Hey it's all you here.
Is he? Or are you?
I'M NO ANGEL BUT
SOMEONE MADE THESE CHARACTERS
AND THEN MADE THIS.
I never watched a gameplay vid or anything like that. The only thing I really got spoiled on was learning there was a
Sans fight
It's just a video game. Responses like this are sooo lame.
They're trying to seemingly guilt trip someone over a different choice they made in a video game. I personally think that's pretty lame.
I've seen a lot of people harmlessly ribbing others for their badboy runs but if anyone is actually casting judgment on someone for engaging in the game in a way obviously intended by the developer, yeah, that would be lame. I can say after only a few hours that there's genuine merit in the badboy run, especially if you've invested in these characters. It's the worst a video game has ever made me, personally, feel. I think that's interesting.
(and if you go to Youtube to enjoy it vicariously there's really no difference; you're indulging morbid curiosity either way)
They're asking a totally valid question that the game itself directly invokes.
Reducing Undertale to 'just a video game' is incredibly dismissive. To a lot of people, the game meant a little more to them than that. And more than that, a major conceit of the game is that it doesn't see itself as just a video game. The game is intentionally designed to make you feel like what you're doing is not okay. From the way it forms connections on your first run and how it asks you what your relationship with those characters ultimately meant to you. This is not to say 'you didn't care about these characters', but your empathy and investment in them manifested in a less directly personal way.
This is not about forming dumb teams between people who choose to do the No Mercy route and people who choose to stop playing, before that's implied either. I don't personally care if people decide to do No Mercy - that's their prerogative, the game does not forcibly stop you - but I find it a little ironic that you suggested that there was a 'superiority complex' forming among people who stop at True Pacfist, when you're openly being pretty condescending to people who see the game in more emotional terms than you do.
I got pretty emotionally invested in the game myself, but I think it's absurd that he needed to make a post basically defending himself just because he's open about the order he played the game in. I've not seen one poster not basically criticise him for the fact that he chose to play in a different order. It gave him a different emotional response to the game, different to how the game's usually played, and he's criticised for it. I think that's lame.
Besides, while I did get emotionally invested in the game I am still fully aware it's a video game. It's not real life and they're not real creatures. If someone wants to play a different way and that made them feel awesome, don't guilt trip them or criticise them for it.
And really, if I was being condescending to people who emotionally invested in the game more than me I think I'd be doing a lot more than pointing out shitty behaviour.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Bought the soundtrack finally since I liked just listening to boss themes on youtube for a while. This will work out better for bus trips as well!
I motion to replace "genocide run" with "badboy run" in the official Undertale vernacular. Genocide just sounds so... accurate.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Panthalassic
Member
I don't like using the common term, so I just say Merciless or something similar. Badboy and Jerry are very good alternatives though.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Using Badtime Run or "Having a Bad Time" would probably what I would actually use in a convo if not the Jerry Run.
I like Badtime Run, but No Mercy is clearer. It's literally 'not using Mercy'.
Obviously, no one should be deliberately and seriously mocking the character of anyone who plays the game however they'd like. I don't think that actually happens here often, and people who haven't played x way should absolutely have a right to discuss it or confront it with someone who has.
I think you were the only person in this exchange to take offense at it, actually. I don't like the idea of putting things in an 'off limits' category when it comes to challenging perspectives on the game, and when it comes to a game like Undertale, which invites this kind of difference in perspective, I find it doubly silly.
Obviously, no one should be deliberately and seriously mocking the character of anyone who plays the game however they'd like. I don't think that actually happens here often, and people who haven't played x way should absolutely have a right to discuss it or confront it with someone who has.
Cool. The point I'm making recognizes that it is, ultimately, just a game. But the great thing about fiction is how we can elevate it in our minds than being more than what it objectively is. A huge component of Undertale's emotional ammunition relies on this fact. Remind people it's 'just a game' misses the point, because that's never in question. How much that actually matters when discussing the spirit of the game is another thing entirely. Hence, dismissive.
Come on, dude.
My friend played a self-defense run first time round; any monster that attacked him he killed. I feel like this is more No Mercy. Still considered a neutral run.
Genocide is an unfortunate name to stick, but it is accurate that you go out of your way to kill everything.
I'll try not to use it in future, but its annoyingly stuck in my brain.
There's nothing here about making something off-limits. I think you're making their response to be more intelligently critical then it actually was. There wasn't any "challenging perspectives" or anything like that. It was pointing out an aspect of playing Genocide then True Pacififist in a way that seemed to be like a kick to the shins.
Besides, if we're going to talk about how people who haven't actually played in certain ways talking to people who have and "confronting" them... That's rude? I think the game challenges thought processes and decision making enough for the player to recognise what they're doing within the context of the game. But outside of the game it's still a game. You can call that "dismissive" if you want to call it that but I don't really consider digs at people who played differently to be that constructive. Sometimes people do need to be reminded that it's just a game. A fun game with good characters that questions moral decisions and challenges your perspective.
And yeah, I called it shitty behaviour. It was an uncalled for comment.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
I'm actually not sure if Toby actively wants players to actively engage with the badboy content. The game certainly doesn't.
The most obvious counterargument to my first statement is, "Well, if Toby didn't want players to play that way, he wouldn't have created that content."
But the thing is, if the content wasn't there, if that murderous run didn't have "genuine merit," it wouldn't be worth playing, and the choice between saving everyone and killing them would lack any actual emotional weight to the decision. The entire point of Undertale is that it's the RPG where "no one has to die," but in order for that idea to reach its full potential or maybe even work, the badboy run has to exist.
(on a side note, I totally agree with your footnote)
Yeah, pretty much. What I remember one guy saying is that whether or not Undertale has a good or bad ending depends entirely on "your capacity to empathize with fictional characters". The game always tries to keep you invested in the game,Moonlight said:
since it always pulls tricks and reminds you: no, you can't just reset and make everything better. That stuff you did? I remember.
What the purpose of all those things are to keep players from saying, "Oh, it's just a game - I can always reset."
What the purpose of all those things are to keep players from saying, "Oh, it's just a game - I can always reset."
What I'm really saying here is that I totally agree with you. Talking about this game is fun!
Also, I should really stop getting distracted when making posts.
EDIT: Another cool comic! Huge, life-ending spoilers in this one though: http://theyoungdoyley.tumblr.com/post/130734582145
Oh, and Toby had an interview!
(don't skip past it!)
Toby's stance is:
Basically, do what you want.
Also cool to see he liked Ghost Trick. That's a great game.
Eh. It's k.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
And I said "actively wants". He's saying that you're allowed to. It's a very neutral statement.
Going by his Twitter just seems to want people to enjoy his game and post fan art.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
...Yeah? I'm not sure what you're going for here. He's deliberately refused to make any comments on how one should play or interpret the game. In the interview I just posted, he exempts himself from the question regarding morality and turns it towards the interviewer/reader.
I don't see how this has any relevance with the statement I made.
Rockman Wright
Banned
haha, didn't except people to have an argument about my statement while i was away! Thanks for taking my stance, but don't bother, it doesn't matter, everyone should feel what they want! Maybe it was a little condescending, but i made my point, and he didn't answer in the end so no biggie!
I think the only people that should have the right to look down on the choice of other players are the guys who did the true pacifist and never even watched the genocide mode, at least their sentiment would be genuine! In the meantime, they would miss so much content and awesome music, so yeah, i still feel better than them, but i don't blame them for their choice!
Well maybe he doesn't have a preference? That's the relevance.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
Or maybe, like I just said, he doesn't want to affect how other people approach the game.
I said, "I'm not actually sure." That means I'm speculating. I don't have any proof in favor of my statement, all I have is the reasoning laid out in my post.
Eh, he has never alluded to a preference. That's why I brought those two things up.
He just seems to like people liking his game. It's cute. There's seemingly no correct way to play, just freedom of choice.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
dity said:
edit: post deleted on account of realizing I totally lost my temper here. Sorry.
No problem, I was actually waiting for you yourself to weigh in because you're probably most important here. I just didn't think you even needed to make that big post of yours, because you should be able to play however without getting responses like you did. Y'know? But yeah I'll drop it all if you think it doesn't matter now in the end, haha.
And I echo your second paragraph. Wholly agree.
Rockman Wright
Banned
I'm still glad that i have made this post, it offer an other perspective for some players and i'm happy to share it! Even if it was only one person, the fact that i made an interesting point for someone was good enough for me
EDIT : someone did what i hoped a few page ago, "Oh! One true love" Cover :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6oRMcfX2N0
Also a remix of the ruins :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YwkmmO0-_Y
On another note, I think some people here might enjoy playing Read Only Memories. It basically just got released on Steam and involves decision making and choices. Here's the trailer.
Well I'm glad you don't feel bad about needing to make that post. That's what matters I think.
On topic in regards to the Genocide naming scheme, I feel like the closest we have to a canon naming scheme are "Murder Run" and "Mercy Run". I know both sound lame, but if you name your character either Murder or Mercy during the start of the game, it comments how that's it's little on-the-nose.
how about calling it a "GO HOG WILD" run?
https://twitter.com/FwugRadiation/status/652090913087426560
https://twitter.com/FwugRadiation/status/652090913087426560
I support that notion 400%
The Hermit
Member
It's my new ringtone.
I don't remember last time a game made me feel like this. I couldn't play the Geno/no mercy run after the good ending because I was still too attached to the characters.
And I just played Lisa recently so I wanted a more lighthearted game.
Neutral: Whoopsie run