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Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales

sharc

Neo Member
ALL runs:
i've been particularly impressed with how undertale presents avoiding violence as an ideal, but also goes out of its way to make that a difficult decision to stick to. killing everything is a very different story, but killing monsters now and then to get a few extra levels worth of HP or to get past a boss you're stuck on gives you nothing but benefits in the short term. you're taking on way more of a burden by avoiding conflict and it isn't just a toothless story element with no imapct on the actual game; staying at level 1 gives you much less room for error as you play.

the temptation to resort to violence is constant, and choosing to abstain gives you very little in the way of tangible rewards. yes going on a date with papyrus is hilarious but it doesn't make the battles any easier.

there's a push and pull to this that reminds me a lot of dragon quarter, and this dynamic of the game trying to goad the player into doing the "wrong" thing because it's easier isn't often explored. a lot of the time taking the Obviously Good Choice gets you some kind of prize or compensation, but here if you want to follow an ideal you have to work for it because you're mostly just making the game harder. i appreciate the nuance of this a whole lot more than "complete the light or dark story paths to unlock unique combat upgrades!" or whatever

on that note, it's especially interesting to me that the game forces you to attack asgore. mechanically. this is just pressing a button and is not that interesting. but the narrative that builds up as you spend the whole game looking for any possible non-violent solution gives the unavoidable decision to finally attack someone surprising weight and significance.
 

Kirlia

Banned
Spoilers/speculation about (wow, spoilers)
the Fallen Child
.

I really think they were human...at first. I think they were an angry, abused child who climbed Mt. Ebott to die, then survived and decided to use Asriel to try and destroy their hometown. I don't know if they really cared about monsterkind...I mean, they made a pie for Asgore that was poisoned with buttercups. They may have had some degree of affection for Asriel, but I really think they were using him for vengeance above all else.

I think they haunted Frisk during Undertale proper, which is why they can take over Frisk in a Genocide Run: the violence empowers them, and they become so power-mad, they regard themselves as a demon who thrives on getting stronger. In a non-Genocide Run, they still haunt Frisk, as some memories SPECIFIC to the Fallen Child do crop up depending on what you do/say/examine. Some are downright unavoidable, such as when you fall into the trash area and hear Asriel's voice. And I'm guessing that, at the end of a True Pacifist run, the Fallen Child finally finds peace and lets go of Frisk, moving on.

But that's really all just speculation. Hell, I've probably posted something like this before.
 
Also, from that recent interview with the ExistentialGamer folks:

I like that Toby's response here isn't the usual effusive response to breakout success, which is something like "the enthusiasm of the fans is more than I could have imagined." Which isn't to downplay the sincerity of successful developers, but Toby's game shows that he is highly aware of both player expectations and the specific ingredients that certain cult classics share. Perhaps it would be insincere for him to say he didn't expect success. If that's the case, I enjoy his simply-stated confidence. It certainly manifests all throughout Undertale.
 

PSqueak

Banned
ALL runs:

[Spoilered stuff]

I think this is great, after exiting the ruins in pacifist run it is brought up
Flowey basically mentions this factor and taunts you wondering how long will you keep up before giving in to frustration and start killing
and some of the boss battles really capitalize on this, i pretty much wasted HOURS on the
undyne and asgore
battles for trying to stick to my guns of "niceness" rather than doing what i had to.
 

Saikyo

Member
I really want to have an avatar of Sans shrugging and winking while zoomed in on, does anyone have a screenshot of that on-hand?

14437824373339er7v.gif


Its not winking but...
 

JC Sera

Member
Neutral/Pacifist Spoilers:
people really don't seem to get Toriel is never going to get back with Asgore, and thats ok. Its natural and a good thing given the circumstances. Asgore is suffering the consequences for his actions.
She might eventually forgive him, but shes never going to love him again.

Sorry I just have really strong feelings about how society deals with separation and how it expects theres always a chance in broken relationships.
 

Weiss

Banned
Help I can't stop laughing (true pacifist end spoilers)

EDIT: Regarding the whole discussion that's been going on over the last page or two, Sans says some interesting stuff at the end about that if you're exceptionally violent but aren't on the Genocide route.

Those moments where Sans stops being the goofy comic relief struck me as some of the most horrifying moments of the game, even without doing the Genocide run. You just know the guy could break you in half.

I couldn't stop myself

FtE6DRs.png

If I wasn't shackled by this avatar bet I would so steal that.

Neutral/Pacifist Spoilers:
people really don't seem to get Toriel is never going to get back with Asgore, and thats ok. Its natural and a good thing given the circumstances. Asgore is suffering the consequences for his actions.
She might eventually forgive him, but shes never going to love him again.

Sorry I just have really strong feelings about how society deals with separation and how it expects theres always a chance in broken relationships.

Asgore picked the absolute worst possible choice, determined to murder children but waiting around and making his subjects suffer and wait for him. Toriel is right to never really love him again, no matter how dire Asgore's circumstances were.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Help I can't stop laughing (true pacifist end spoilers)

You know, his placing in the ending is kind of odd if you think about it
Why did the King of all monsters end up as a landscaper on Toriel's school? Toriel becoming a teacher makes sense, she abdicated her position as a queen and being a teacher was her dream, but why isn't Asgore still a king or diplomat or something? Did the monsters just straight up submit to whatever country Mt. Ebott is located at? is there no Monster home land in the surface?
 

JC Sera

Member
You know, his placing in the ending is kind of odd if you think about it
Why did the King of all monsters end up as a landscaper on Toriel's school? Toriel becoming a teacher makes sense, she abdicated her position as a queen and being a teacher was her dream, but why isn't Asgore still a king or diplomat or something? Did the monsters just straight up submit to whatever country Mt. Ebott is located at? is there no Monster home land in the surface?
Its been mentioned that he likes gardening a lot
also in Papyrus's fight, Papyrus goes "The king with trim a hedge in the shape of my face" which happens in the credits
 

Scott667

Member
I finished the game a few days ago and have been ruminating on the various endings since then. (End game spoilers)

I played as a pacifist first time and found that something that usually bugs me (arbitrarily not being able to get the best ending until you've finished the game at least once) was integrated really well (even if there is literally no reason why Undyne does/doesn't write the letter). What I found interesting was how in the true ending Asriel calls out the players name and says that he just wants to keep playing with him. Obviously he is meant to be talking about the first child, but the way that the game forces you to have beaten the game first and come back after Floweys advice makes it feel very personal. I know that (without someone telling me spoilers) I likely wouldn't have reloaded my save file without Floweys advice, so it made the twist of the "Name you enter isn't the name of the character you play as" really work for me.

However, you then find out that Asriel's friend was actually evil and there is this huge dissonance between the player and the first child. I understand that it works on an evil run, but when you are playing as a nice person it feels really weird that all of a sudden everyone started calling *me* the bad guy. It also felt really weird that they try to make Asriel sound like a good guy at the end and make you feel bad that you can't save him, but don't reconcile how he became close friends with an evil child.

It just seemed so weird that making reference to the players name worked so well at some points of the story, but then throws a wrench in things at other points. (obviously just in the pacifist route, it works really well on an evil run)
 

PSqueak

Banned
Its been mentioned that he likes gardening a lot
also in Papyrus's fight, Papyrus goes "The king with trim a hedge in the shape of my face" which happens in the credits

Of course, but he's not in his kingly outfit, when you find him tending his garden before the fight he is in his kingly outfit, it gave me the impression that he stepped down to focus fully on gardening, but why? Do monsters not have a country anymore?
 

JC Sera

Member
Of course, but he's not in his kingly outfit, when you find him tending his garden before the fight he is in his kingly outfit, it gave me the impression that he stepped down to focus fully on gardening, but why? Do monsters not have a country anymore?
I don't think they needed him as that type of leader anymore.

Everyone on the surface just seems to be achieving their dream lives. Mostly everyone.
 

dity

Member
I kind of took Undertale as an attempt to not play out the most common video game trope: Player vs. World.

The game emphasizes right from the get go that the monsters aren't, well, monsters. You can't just run around hacking away at them because they happened to bump into you.

As a player, seeing my low health and my level never increase, I instinctively felt like I was doing something wrong.

Well, when tweeting in the past Tony does make a point that his game goes against the usual tropes. He also doesn't seem to like tropes very much. He's pointed out the page for Undertale basically just describes the whole game - and they're basically all tropes that go against the grain.

I belong in the underground, because I have to be a monster for creating this:

BOSS SPOILERS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztTirGPgv6c

OMG. I just saw this on Twitter just then. Decided to follow you too.
 

Maximo

Member
Just beat the pacifist and genocide runs, will give a more detailed impression of the game but this has certainly shot up to one of my favourite games ever.
 
Quick question about a Pacifist run--does smashing the practice dummy at the very beginning count against that? This is my first playthrough so I haven't read much but I figured they make a big point out of saying you can spare every enemy so I thought I'd try it, but I just remembered I accidentally smashed the dummy at the beginning....


Will this ever be out on consoles ? Seems awesome

Right? I really wanna play this on my 3DS or even my phone in bed instead of having to sit at the computer.
 

dity

Member
Toby said there's no plan for a console release. Plus, there's certain elements of the game that aren't acheivable on console anyway.
 

Ferrio

Banned
So just beat it for the first time. So what do I have to do to get a 100% passive run, anything special? Or is it just reset and not kill anyone?
 

Corpekata

Banned
So just beat it for the first time. So what do I have to do to get a 100% passive run, anything special? Or is it just reset and not kill anyone?

You have to go back to some areas to make friends with some of the important characters and basically just listen to what they suggest.
 

aravuus

Member
Genocide/no mercy/badtime/whatever the fuck the name is now run is surprisingly tedious at times. Also the fact that battles still pop up, just with the no one came message is a tiny bit annoying.

Fucking love the emotionless main character, though. Cold motherfucker.
 

dity

Member
Genocide/no mercy/badtime/whatever the fuck the name is now run is surprisingly tedious at times. Also the fact that battles still pop up, just with the no one came message is a tiny bit annoying.

Fucking love the emotionless main character, though. Cold motherfucker.

Truly the face of a cold ass killer.

tEYK7Hi.png


-_-
 

aravuus

Member
Truly the face of a cold ass killer.

tEYK7Hi.png


-_-

Love the facial expression

Also,
"The heroine appears!"
I love it. It's like I'm playing any old JRPG (well, maybe not ANY, but you get the point), but as the irredeemably evil big bad. e: the song is great too. Obviously.

Just murdering my way downtown.
 

dity

Member
Love the facial expression

Also,
"The heroine appears!"
I love it. It's like I'm playing any old JRPG (well, maybe not ANY, but you get the point), but as the irredeemably evil big bad.

Just murdering my way downtown.

"The heroine appears!"
is my favourite line in the game, coupled with the music it sends shivers down my spine.

Undertale's Go Hog Wild run is probably what happens after you lose to the final boss in a game and that boss just keeps causing havoc.
 
Quick question about a Pacifist run--does smashing the practice dummy at the very beginning count against that? This is my first playthrough so I haven't read much but I figured they make a big point out of saying you can spare every enemy so I thought I'd try it, but I just remembered I accidentally smashed the dummy at the beginning....

Pacifist spoiler
Yes. Killing the dummy invalidates Pacifist.
 
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