Yeah, that bothered me too, although
Azriel DOES say that the First Child came to the mountain because something happened and he hated humans, it's just not really explained or fleshed out
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Undertale |OT| Indie RPG with determination and spider bake sales
- Thread starter Earthpainting
- Start date
Yeah, that bothered me too, although
ah, gotcha. And yeah, re: the ks boss I eventually found it via google.
One other thing, though: *TRUE ENDING SPOILERS!!!!!*There's never any real explanation for why The First Child acted the way he did, right? I get that it's to show the other side of determination, that someone can be determined to destroy everything and ruin lives just as Frisk was determined to make friends and save everyone. But considering how fleshed out the other characters in the game are, the fact that he was supposedly just a terrible person without explanation for why he became that way feels a little hollow.
Minor nitpick, I know. Just something that irked me a little.
The first child acted the way they did because it was the world's embodiment of you as a player, and players everywhere, their murderous intend represents how most games have violence and kill everything as their main form of interaction and specially how you slaughter everything in RPGs, They directly reference how you'd do things out of curiosity and keep resetting to do it all over again and make other choices, and when they talk about erasing the world and moving to the next one, they're talking about beating the game and moving to the next game where you will presumably slaughter everything. This is why they are the character you name, and they represent you in the world, you learn Frisk's name in the true ending because it represents that Frisk has broken out of your influence.
One other thing, though: *TRUE ENDING SPOILERS!!!!!*There's never any real explanation for why The First Child acted the way he did, right? I get that it's to show the other side of determination, that someone can be determined to destroy everything and ruin lives just as Frisk was determined to make friends and save everyone. But considering how fleshed out the other characters in the game are, the fact that he was supposedly just a terrible person without explanation for why he became that way feels a little hollow.
Minor nitpick, I know. Just something that irked me a little.
Spoilers for something you may have missed in the true pacifist ending:
If you go all the way back to the very start of the game - the flower patch in the ruins - Asriel is there, and he muses on this a bit. He tells you that the Fallen Child hated humanity. He also talks about why you'd choose to go to Mt. Ebott in the first place, knowing that nobody ever returns from it... to me, there's an implication of suicidal depression, maybe abuse.
I think that maybe the Genocide Ending digs more into this? But I'm a little hesitant to delve too deeply into that side of the game.
I think that maybe the Genocide Ending digs more into this? But I'm a little hesitant to delve too deeply into that side of the game.
Another, happier thing that folks can miss during the true pacifist ending:
Give Toriel a ring or three. She has lots and lots to say, now... well, lots to text, anyhow.
I just realized there'sin Undertale and I'm laughing my ass off at the entire situation.a second Kickstarter boss
Never open yourself into a situation where a high-enough paying backer gets a say in including a character kids. Unless they're an internet celebrity (2 Best Friends getting The Baz into Shovel Knight and Dive Kick) or it's literally including an internet celebrity (Jim Sterling/2BF/Some Mega64 guys in LISA), I guess.
I made a little search and...well i guess i know now the date of when im going to replay this.
i don't really see the problem with the boss.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Spoilers for something you may have missed in the true pacifist ending:If you go all the way back to the very start of the game - the flower patch in the ruins - Asriel is there, and he muses on this a bit. He tells you that the Fallen Child hated humanity. He also talks about why you'd choose to go to Mt. Ebott in the first place, knowing that nobody ever returns from it... to me, there's an implication of suicidal depression, maybe abuse.
I think that maybe the Genocide Ending digs more into this? But I'm a little hesitant to delve too deeply into that side of the game.
Another, happier thing that folks can miss during the true pacifist ending:Give Toriel a ring or three. She has lots and lots to say, now... well, lots to text, anyhow.
I took it to mean both the Fallen Child and Frisk were suicidal, but the former when they survived and found themselves in a mystical wonderland of monsters took the opportunity to lash out against those he felt had wronged them while Frisk took it as an opportunity to make their own life. The 'true' ending seems to imply there was no family for Frisk to go back to after all. Sort of a nice contrast of the dramatically different paths two similar kids in similar situations can take after an attempted suicide? It's not made too obvious though.
I made a little search and...well i guess i know now the date of when im going to replay this.
Spoiler i don't really see the problem with the boss.
I have zero issue with the creator's background as a furry/fetish/whatever porn artist, it just seems ill-advised at best to submit an inherently fetishy character for use in an otherwise 'clean' game that isn't yours. I know Toby probably isn't thrilled at the prospect of people swarming someone who helped fund a ton of money for his game over an obscure boss he ultimately agreed to include, but it still sort of feels like given the nature of how KS works Toby would've been caught blindsided and strong-armed to include someone's fetishy fursona in his game.
Glyde is forever stuck in the middle of the KS boss spectrum of Muffet and So Sorry as just sort of there.
About how long is this game? I've been hearing and seeing good things about this game and I'm curious how long it would take for me to beat it.
8-10 hours long. I took 12 but i'm just slow at games.
8-10 hours long. I took 12 but i'm just slow at games.
Thanks. I'll probably pick it up.
Thanks. I'll probably pick it up.
Do post what you think about it!
This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
If it helps, i'm not really into memes either, never played Earthbound and never have seen/read/watched (?) Homestuck.
Get it.This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
The game isn't heavy on internet memes, has jack all to do with Homestuck beyond Toby reusing one of his songs from that in this and doesn't really require you to play Earthbound, even if it's obviously influenced by it.This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
Even the battle mechanics are immediately different to Earthbound. I'd at least try out the demo to see what you think!
This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
I don't like homestuck, I like the world atmosphere of Earthbound but not the combat, and I'm not really a fan of memes and despite all that I loved this game.
Play the demo. See if you like it, and if you do then definitely play the full game.
http://undertale.com/demo.htm
This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
There is absolutely 0 homestuck references in the game, except for one song that was used for one of the bosses and it doesn't count cause Toby made the song himself in the first place.
Playing earthbound is not required, people mention earthbound because many similarities between the games, when people bring it up it only means "if you enjoyed earthbound, you're guaranteed to like Undertale".
Some of the humor might come as meme like, but i don't recall encountering actual memes in the game, you'll be fine.
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
Ok so I played the first 45 minutes of this game and I really don't get what's so great about this. Does it get better?
There's actually one homestuck reference,There is absolutely 0 homestuck references in the game, except for one song that was used for one of the bosses and it doesn't count cause Toby made the song himself in the first place.
Playing earthbound is not required, people mention earthbound because many similarities between the games, when people bring it up it only means "if you enjoyed earthbound, you're guaranteed to like Undertale".
Some of the humor might come as meme like, but i don't recall encountering actual memes in the game, you'll be fine.
sans eye
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Plus that one song really started off in that Earthbound Halloween hack he made years before Homestuck. It's more just a sort of 'director's trademark' he works into everything he works on I guess.
That feels way too vague to be a Homestuck reference. Tons of shows have probably pulled off similar looks before HS existed.There's actually one homestuck reference,
sans eye
Ok so I played the first 45 minutes of this game and I really don't get what's so great about this. Does it get better?
Did you finish the ruins yet? How are you playing the game? (Killing everything, going pacifist)
It does get better, though. Especially when you see how the choices you make affect everything and how the plot evolves. The boss fights are fucking amazing, too.
Plus that one song really started off in that Earthbound Halloween hack he made years before Homestuck. It's more just a sort of 'director's trademark' he works into everything he works on I guess.
That feels way too vague to be a Homestuck reference. Tons of shows have probably pulled off similar looks before HS existed.
Skeleton with a rainbow eye though?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Skeleton with a rainbow eye though?
Is Sans' eye rainbow in Undertale though? Looks more light blue/green than who I *think* (it's admittedly been years since I last read Homestuck) you're referring to.
CypherSignal
Member
Bought, played, and beat it (neutral + true ending) over the weekend.
What an amazing game. Probably my favourite game of the year thus far, and deserves the high praise. If nothing else, people should play it sooner rather than later so that it doesn't get spoiled to high-heavens for when it comes up during other goty discussions.
What an amazing game. Probably my favourite game of the year thus far, and deserves the high praise. If nothing else, people should play it sooner rather than later so that it doesn't get spoiled to high-heavens for when it comes up during other goty discussions.
Hmm, you might be right, but it's what I thought of as soon as I saw it, so I felt like it might've been a referenceIs Sans' eye rainbow in Undertale though? Looks more light blue/green than who I *think* (it's admittedly been years since I last read Homestuck) you're referring to.
actually, yeah his eye flashes yellow blue and green, so it probably isn't, ji a coincidence I guess
Bought, played, and beat it (neutral + true ending) over the weekend.
What an amazing game. Probably my favourite game of the year thus far, and deserves the high praise. If nothing else, people should play it sooner rather than later so that it doesn't get spoiled to high-heavens for when it comes up during other goty discussions.
funnily enough, i predict that in a few months or so Cracked.com will be writing about it regularly and thus constantly spoiling it, since it's full of all the weird stuff that always ends up in their gaming articles, hell, wouldn't surprise me if it gets it's own feature article like splatoon did.
I'm only vaguely aware of Homestuck, never got around to playing Earthbound and have a healthy distaste for internet memes. You shouldn't have anything to worry about with Undertale, it stands on its own and while some of the humor references anime/gaming culture it's not trying to pass off a bunch of memes as jokes.This game sounds interesting, but I'm wary of a few things.
- I don't like internet memes.
- I don't like homestuck.
- I've never played Earthbound.
Hmm.
RecursiveFault
Banned
Are you saying that because ofI actually found the first half of the game to be much better and funnier than the second, which definitely leaned more on the memes and homestuck
Mettaton
I don't even know what Homestuck is, that's just my best guess at tone shift.
I actually found the first half of the game to be much better and funnier than the second, which definitely leaned more on the memes and homestuck
I'm not really sure what memes you're referring to?
most of the jokes in the second half are parodies of tropes, like Alphys being a shy nerd and Undyne being all tough but unable to confess her feelings. I can't really think of any explicit use of memes.
And the game uses some narrative devices from Homestuck but it's far from being the convoluted, overblown, obtuse-for-the-sake-of-being-obtuse narrative that Homestuck currently is.
I mean, I definitely think this game isn't for everyone. It has a very specific style of writing and humor that some people definitely won't like. But I don't think "memes and homestuck" is a good way of defining it.
I'm not really sure what memes you're referring to?most of the jokes in the second half are parodies of tropes, like Alphys being a shy nerd and Undyne being all tough but unable to confess her feelings. I can't really think of any explicit use of memes.
The scientist character and all those text messages were very 'internet humor'
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
Did you finish the ruins yet? How are you playing the game? (Killing everything, going pacifist)
It does get better, though. Especially when you see how the choices you make affect everything and how the plot evolves. The boss fights are fucking amazing, too.
Haven't finished the ruins yet. So far I haven't killed a single enemy.
RecursiveFault
Banned
I'd at least get a ways into Snowdin (the next area) before you write it off.Haven't finished the ruins yet. So far I haven't killed a single enemy.
The scientist character and all those text messages were very 'internet humor'
I don't think "internet humor" equals memes, plus it was making fun of nerds, just like the Francis bit in Super Paper Mario, i understand that is not everyone's cup of tea, but, come on, that's still far from "meme" humor.
I think this is a fair criticism insofar as the game maybe took that joke too far. The humor is very much a part of Alphys' character, though, and it never relies on a specific existing piece of 'internet humor' that I recall - it's more about acknowledging and poking fun at the general style. Also, thankfully, that's not all there is to her, though a lot of her further development occurs when you're pretty far down the True Pacifist ending route.The scientist character and all those text messages were very 'internet humor'
Haven't finished the ruins yet. So far I haven't killed a single enemy.
I would try to finish that part and get a bit after Snowdin before writing it off. I liked it from the beggining, but it's a bit, uh, uneventful before the ending of the ruins.
JonathanNemo
Member
I think if for some reason you really don't want to give the Undertale demo a try, the TieTuesday LP of the demo gives the best idea of what's so great about this Undertale thing yeah?
Undertale Demo: Let's Appreciate (playlist with all four parts)
Toby Fox makes a surprise appearance at the very end. It's good.
Undertale Demo: Let's Appreciate (playlist with all four parts)
Toby Fox makes a surprise appearance at the very end. It's good.
The Yo Tornado
Member
I think if you get to Snowdin and you're still not feeling the game that's enough of a taste to decide whether or not the game is for you. The interactions with Papyrus and sans are pretty indicative of the humor of the game and you get a good enough taste of the battle system at that point. A lot of the emotional peaks the game hits near the end are a result of your relationships with the characters, so if you're not feeling them there's a good chance things aren't really going to get better.
I think if you get to Snowdin and you're still not feeling the game that's enough of a taste to decide whether or not the game is for you. The interactions with Papyrus and sans are pretty indicative of the humor of the game and you get a good enough taste of the battle system as well. A lot of the emotional peaks the game hits near the end are a result of your relationships with the characters, so if you're not feeling them there's a good chance things aren't really going to get better.
Yeah, i said a bit after because of the "first" boss fight, so he can see how crazy the battle system can get. But if he doesn't like it by then... Can't see the game being his kind of thing.
The Yo Tornado
Member
Yeah, i said a bit after because of the "first" boss fight, so he can see how crazy the battle system can get. But if he doesn't like it by then... Can't see the game being his kind of thing.
Yeah, I kinda regret leaving that fight out, because that DOES probably have my favorite twist in any battle.
"You're blue now."
But if you're not a fan of the characterization, then all of the parts in that fight I found hysterical and clever you would probably just find tedious and annoying.
I think if you get to Snowdin and you're still not feeling the game that's enough of a taste to decide whether or not the game is for you. The interactions with Papyrus and sans are pretty indicative of the humor of the game and you get a good enough taste of the battle system as well. A lot of the emotional peaks the game hits near the end are a result of your relationships with the characters, so if you're not feeling them there's a good chance things aren't really going to get better.
I don't think people should play past where they're comfortable but I'd say the game has laid out its basic playbook after the Papyrus fight. That battle gives you a better idea of Undertale's playful battle system than Toriel's. If I knew someone who was struggling through the beginning, I'd suggest playing to that piont.
Yeah, I kinda regret leaving that fight out, because that DOES probably have my favorite twist in any battle.
"You're blue now."
But if you're not a fan of the characterization, then all of the parts in that fight I found hysterical and clever you would probably just find tedious and annoying.
That part was amazing and took me by complete surprise.
Damn, i love this game.
I think if you liked Homestuck's humor (anywhere from, I'd say, Act 2 to 4 since Act 1 kinda takes a while to get going due to community input and the slow pace bogs the humor down, and Act 5's humor kinda picks up the shipping stuff and alien culture which isn't really in this game to any of that extent), or liked Earthbound, chances are you'll like this.
If you like both, then it's a no-brainer.
If you didn't like any of the two, or are unsure even if you did, there's always the demo to try out before you buy the game.
Overall after getting the True Pacifist Ending I have to say this was one of the most satisfying experiences and endings I have gotten out of a game since a loong time, so anyone interested should really treat themselves to this game. I can promise you won't regret it.
If you like both, then it's a no-brainer.
If you didn't like any of the two, or are unsure even if you did, there's always the demo to try out before you buy the game.
Overall after getting the True Pacifist Ending I have to say this was one of the most satisfying experiences and endings I have gotten out of a game since a loong time, so anyone interested should really treat themselves to this game. I can promise you won't regret it.
Just finished a No-Mercy run, since I did everything else available.
Well played, game. You really turned the tables on me...
No-Mercy Boss Spoilers:
Ending on that note, this game is amazing.
Well played, game. You really turned the tables on me...
No-Mercy Boss Spoilers:
Sans is INSANE. Took around 2 hours trying to beat him because I kept dying to his circle of lasers right before his "special attack." At least the music was kickass
Waiting around for 10 minutes to sell your soul after the end was kind of annoying as well.
Ending on that note, this game is amazing.
Waiting around for 10 minutes to sell your soul after the end was kind of annoying as well.
Ending on that note, this game is amazing.
It is kinda brilliant from a meta-perspective, though. The reason Sans's fight is so hard (and his special attack being literally nothing) isn't because he wants to beat you - just frustrate and annoy you the player, because his goal isn't to beat your character, it's to beat their determination to finish the game. He games the system in the opposite way you do. Waiting ten minutes is kind of a while, but it's just the nail to emphasize how many loops you're willing to jump through just to 'finish'.
Just finished a No-Mercy run, since I did everything else available.
I guess technically to truly be done you need to beat the game one more time with the pacifist ending again.
You know, just to hammer home just how much of a monster one is for doing what happens in that situation.I guess technically to truly be done you need to beat the game one more time with the pacifist ending again.