Support NeoGAF

[PSqueak]

Spoiler

Asriel didn't know about Chara's motives for being an omnicidal psychopath, and there was no manifestation of Chara whatsoever during the true ending boss fight, even though there were plenty of monster AND human souls present.

Spoiler

Flowey had powers because he got injected with heaps of Determination (which was what created him), not Chara.

Spoiler

You're conflating the "The player is Chara" with "The player is influencing Frisk". The player is not Chara, and people most likely think so because so many people put their names on the "Name the fallen human" screen and take it as a hint.

[Citation Needed]

Spoiler

1.- Because by that point it can be assumed that Frisk ridded of Chara's influence and the final boss was more or less 100% Asriel, he even thinks Frisk is Chara, and the he clearly realizes Chara is gone from there, i think it could be interpreted as either ridding of Chara for ever, or Chara just not being there at all.

2.- If that was so, how come He lost them when Frisk showed up? Before you say "Frisk was more determined", then how come Flowey took the save powers back when he had 6 Souls, how does that make him more determined than Frisk? the only difference between Frisk and Flowey in that moment was that Flowey had more souls, not more determination.

3.- Chara exists both as an in universe character and as a metaphor for the player's drive to run games into the ground, mentioning the metaphorical elements of the character of Chara makes it easier to explain why my theory is that Chara is trying to influence Frisk during all runs, and not only Hog Wild, the player's actions just determine how much story wise Chara succeeded in influencing Frisk.

4.- Refer to #2, We're just sharing theories here.

Spoiler

I took that line as him saying "thanks to these sequences of events, i eventually became a soulless flower" as in if he did kill those humans, he would have never became a flower.

To me it felt like

Spoiler

"I turned into something that couldn't possibly hurt anyone" but then came Alphys...

 

[demidar]

Spoiler

Human souls probably generate their own determination, so having 6 human souls means more determination than one. Monster souls can't, outside of Undyne.

 

[PSqueak]

Spoiler

Human souls probably generate their own determination, so having 6 human souls means more determination than one. Monster souls can't, outside of Undyne.

Spoiler

While this is a plausible theory, then where was Alphys getting the determination from, was it ever stated if Asgore gave her access to the human souls?

 

[demidar]

Spoiler

While this is a plausible theory, then where was Alphys getting the determination from, was it ever stated if Asgore gave her access to the human souls?

Spoiler

Alphys extracted them from human souls that Asgore had.

Spoiler

ENTRY NUMBER 5: I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power... "Determination."

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yup, after all, that's what

Spoiler

the determination extraction machine was for.

 

[PSqueak]

Spoiler

Alphys extracted them from human souls that Asgore had.

Yup, after all, that's what

Spoiler

the determination extraction machine was for.

Had totally forgotten that entry.

 

[Molemitts]

Sorry if it's already been posted, but I just watched this review of Undertale and it offers some really good opinions on the game and ideas about it. Contains spoilers, but please watch this if you've got the 3 endings, it's in two parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oOLhrUOgBE

 

[B_Bech]

While we're talking

Spoiler

True Lab conspiracy,

I have a few of my own. First of which involves the

Spoiler

six fallen children.

Spoiler

So you know how there are coffins right outside of Asgore's throne room? It's been established that the bodies of the human children were kept around to extract their determination, etc. Back in the True Lab, we fight different Amalgamates, the horrible outcome of Alphys' determination experiments... Well, if we look at each one does not fit with the rest: Memory head. The rest of the Amalgamates are reunited with their families... and must be pacified in a perverted version of the way their former selves would have.

Memoryhead is the exception... (this is the one that looks like Gigyas from Mother 2) it is not defeated in anyway similar to any other encounter and bears no resemblance to any monster on top of that. I believe this monster is a byproduct of the determination injections... pure determination and the combined memories of the six fallen children.


I'll break down why:

1. Six heads

2. Six responses that cycle in order when you attack it:

FAILURE
But it didn't work.
nope
Absorbed
Don't worry about it.
I'm lovin' it.

There are six humans with six personalities as shown with the 6 sets of items Offensive/Defensive(Not counting the the sets that are associated with Frisk and Chara). We also are shown six phases of Photoshop Flowey in addition to six quotes in the golf minigame at Snowdin forest. These are each personality reacting to your attack.

3. It's odd, legion-like beckoning

They are telling the human, Frisk, to join them... I mean, look at the things it says:

Come join the fun.
It's a real get together.
That's a shame.
Memory head attack
Memoryhead attacking the player.
Lorem ipsum docet.
Oh well.
Be seeing you.
Just a moment.
You'll be with us shortly.
Then hold still.
Become one of us!


So yeah, that's what I think memoryhead is. The True Lab is full of purposely open-ended mystery though... like the Photoshop Flowey head, W D Gaster's entry... the strange ghost that tucks you in...of the

I have a feeling there's much to the game we will be left forever to wonder about. Damn you, Toby!

 

[Saikyo]

Spoiler

I have a feeling there's much to the game we will be left forever to wonder about. Damn you, Toby!

Spoiler

I want more answer too but sometimes its better this way, see the prequel trilogy of star wars.

Spoiler

There was a promise of a new game or comic in the same world going by the Kickstarter page so lets wait.

 

[Windom Earle]

Just finished the game for the first time on Neutral. Wow, pretty cool stuff right there.
Took me a while to "get" this game, but I can understand the positive reception now.

What would be a good way to approach subsequent playthroughs? I played completely blind and most likely missed 1 million things. Is there a guide you guys would recommend?
Also "reset" doesn't really reset your save, right? What's up with that?

 

[L95]

Just finished the game for the first time on Neutral. Wow, pretty cool stuff right there.
Took me a while to "get" this game, but I can understand the positive reception now.

What would be a good way to approach subsequent playthroughs? I played completely blind and most likely missed 1 million things. Is there a guide you guys would recommend?
Also "reset" doesn't really reset your save, right? What's up with that?

Reset starts the game over.

 

[Windom Earle]

Reset starts the game over.

I've read that the game will still remember stuff.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I've read that the game will still remember stuff.

Yeah, but for the most part it's just dialog changes for certain characters, assuming you didn't go down one of two very specific moral paths.

 

[DNAbro]

Just finished the game for the first time on Neutral. Wow, pretty cool stuff right there.
Took me a while to "get" this game, but I can understand the positive reception now.

What would be a good way to approach subsequent playthroughs? I played completely blind and most likely missed 1 million things. Is there a guide you guys would recommend?
Also "reset" doesn't really reset your save, right? What's up with that?

Spoiler

Definitely recommend a full pacifist run. and yes it remembers certain things you did.

 

[Windom Earle]

Yeah, but for the most part it's just dialog changes for certain characters, assuming you didn't go down one of two very specific moral paths.

I see, thanks.

Spoiler

Definitely recommend a full pacifist run. and yes it remembers certain things you did.

I'll definitely do that. Looking into the wiki, there is so much crazy shit in this game, wow!

 

[1upsuper]

Spoiler

You're conflating the "The player is Chara" with "The player is influencing Frisk". The player is not Chara, and people most likely think so because so many people put their names on the "Name the fallen human" screen and take it as a hint.

Spoiler

Toby himself tweeted that you should use your own name, so. https://twitter.com/FwugRadiation/status/643945593308618752

 

[Grexeno]

For a Neutral playthrough, about how often should you kill random enemies?

 

[mbpm1]

For a Neutral playthrough, about how often should you kill random enemies?

You only have to kill one I thought.

 

[Corpekata]

For a Neutral playthrough, about how often should you kill random enemies?

As much as you want generally. I generally just killed the ones that were annoying to pacify or had low enough HP to die in one attack.

 

[Puruzi]

For a Neutral playthrough, about how often should you kill random enemies?

If you kill anything you're instantly on the Neutral Path

 

[Grexeno]

If you kill anything you're instantly on the Neutral Path

Well, I suppose I should try to kill enough enemies to get some HP for boss fights.

 

[Gyossaits]

Well, I suppose I should try to kill enough enemies to get some HP for boss fights.

Your starting health is enough and early on you can visit a town that gives you some free overheal. Plus, save points offer free recovery as well and there's noob armor available if you grind by dying.

 

[jett]

I just got the True Pacifist ending, it really was worth it, but I still like the neutral endgame better. Oh and the music in this game is fantastic. I really can't believe a single person did everything. Who is this tobyfox anyway.

aw yea

 

[demidar]

The music really does elevate the game. As I understand it, Toby made the music first before building the actual scenarios/fights so he can get the tone right and I'd say it paid off big time.

 

[DNAbro]

gamefaqs is doing a "best game of all time tournament" thing and Undertale just beat Mass Effect 3.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/bge20_vote

kind of funny.

 

[mbpm1]

Hm...plausible.

Even as an ME fan who didn't mind the ending, I could see it.

 

[Dad]

ME3 is weakest of the trilogy. It only makes sense

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The lasting impact of a game can be evoked by its ending, and when you look at Mass Effect 3's endings and Undertale's endings... well, it's a laughable comparison, really.

I have this feeling that the effect of actually sticking the landing when it comes to fulfilling endings in games—ones that make you look back on the entirety of the game in satisfaction—is constantly underestimated by developers, or shoved aside for whatever else.

The music really does elevate the game. As I understand it, Toby made the music first before building the actual scenarios/fights so he can get the tone right and I'd say it paid off big time.

If that's true, that's a very interesting way to go about things. As with any game, music can have a fundamental impact when executed properly, and Undertale does indeed do it excellently.

 

[pantsmith]

Oh man. I don't think I'm done yet, but I must be close now.

Spoiler

Just went from being miserable against Asgore ;_;... to being horrified by Flowey.

Worse yet, I died for like half an hour straight before realizing you can actually press the menu buttons that are floating around. I was convinced I had hit a dead end.

What an amazing game.

 

[mbpm1]

Spoilers for Genocide route

Spoiler

Sans wins

 

[Panthalassic]

Happy Thursday! We have another cover from RichaadEB, this time of Spider Dance.

 

[Aureon]

On days like these, kids like you.....


Gettttt dunked on!

 

[Yasumi]

gamefaqs is doing a "best game of all time tournament" thing and Undertale just beat Mass Effect 3.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/bge20_vote

kind of funny.

Huh, I think I saw that a couple days ago, and Mass Effect 3 was at 70-something percent (somehow). Good that Undertale pulled it off.

 

[Aureon]

Huh, I think I saw that a couple days ago, and Mass Effect 3 was at 70-something percent (somehow). Good that Undertale pulled it off.

Whoever planned that tournament is pure evil, i mean, how did this bracket happen:



(4) Final Fantasy IX
(13) Kingdom Hearts
wtf.

 

[mbpm1]

Whoever planned that tournament is pure evil, i mean, how did this bracket happen:



(4) Final Fantasy IX
(13) Kingdom Hearts
wtf.

Brackets fulla killers

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You know, it's actually not often that a game depicts how it is to truly be evil and the villain in a story without it feeling cartoonish and/or with some delusional justification of the protagonist's that they're doing the "right thing."

After having done the Genocide Route in Undertale, it's one of the few games that I can think of where playing the villain really feels malevolent.

Spoiler

The change in music, how the NPCs respond to the character, how the character interacts with others, people evacuating because they're terrified of you, etc.

It's fantastic.

That final boss took me hours to get past, though. Toughest thing in the entire game, easily.

 

[PK Gaming]

You know, it's actually not often that a game depicts how it is to truly be evil and the villain in a story without it feeling cartoonish and/or with some delusional justification of the protagonist's that they're doing the "right thing."

After having done the Genocide Route in Undertale, it's one of the few games that I can think of where playing the villain really feels malevolent.

Spoiler

The change in music, how the NPCs respond to the character, how the character interacts with others, people evacuating because they're terrified of you, etc.

It's fantastic.

That final boss took me hours to get past, though. Toughest thing in the entire game, easily.

Agreed, I even made a thread about it.

Nothing I've played comes close to providing the player with kind of experience. It's like

Spoiler

the ultimate antithesis to games where love and hope and friendship triumph against the odds. The Genocide route is awful, but it's gratifying in its own fucked up way.

Where are the knives

 

[DNAbro]

So Undertale was nominated for best Indie game,best RPG, and "game for change" at The Game Awards.

I would hope it wins it all but I think Rocket League might beat it in best Indie game and Witcher 3 in best RPG.

 

[MrHoot]

I hope it gets best indie.

I dunno about the game for change. Not that it wouldn't be cool but I don't know if Toby actually wants the exposure, nor was his intent to make something that stood out as progressive (mostly because it feels so natural, like he just liked these characters).

Also shame it's not in best soundtrack

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Agreed, I even made a thread about it.

Nothing I've played comes close to providing the player with kind of experience. It's like

Spoiler

the ultimate antithesis to games where love and hope and friendship triumph against the odds. The Genocide route is awful, but it's gratifying in its own fucked up way.

Where are the knives

I'd want more games to do something like this. It's especially significant in Undertale's case since it conveys a message on

Spoiler

the desire to feel powerful in RPGs, losing perspective on everything you kill because you're just focusing on your numbers going up. So that you can proceed to just crush anything that goes against you. As someone who pointed out in your thread, it's also cool that they call out those watching it on YouTube and didn't have the "determination" to do it themselves through Flowey.

Since I'm LTTP, there's a bunch of analysis and interpretations I'm still catching up on, but one I didn't even consider until I saw it posted elsewhere and that I find to be really cool is that:

Spoiler

as the combat theme "Battle Against a Hero" is Undyne the Undying's, "Megalovania" isn't actually Sans' battle theme, but Chara's.

 

[Puruzi]

haha this is perfect

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Just started the game. Up to the two skeletons having a go at me right now. How much longer in the game? I've talked to some plants, but I'm mostly killing them to level don't know if that's bad or good for a first run through.

 

[Puruzi]

Just started the game. Up to the two skeletons having a go at me right now. How much longer in the game? I've talked to some plants, but I'm mostly killing them to level don't know if that's bad or good for a first run through.

You're not very far in at all. You can do whatever you want first playthrough.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You're not very far in at all. You can do whatever you want first playthrough.

Though, going through the first time, it's easier to get two endings out of the way at the same time by doing things differently... but sure.

 

[Puruzi]

Though, going through the first time, it's easier to get two endings out of the way at the same time by doing things differently... but sure.

Spoiler

If you mean not killing anything and then just starting at the alphys date, that's what I did first. Haven't replayed it yet.

 

[B_Bech]

I love how Toby included that line in the Genocide run jeering at players like me that are too weak-willed to do the evil deeds themselves and are instead watching it via Twitch/YouTube. I heard that the line only appears if the game detects recording software, too. Pure genius. I don't think I've seen a better executed forth wall breaker-- aside from other parts of the game of course.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I heard that the line only appears if the game detects recording software, too. Pure genius.

Nah, that can't be right because I got it and wasn't recording anything. At first, I thought the line was addressing me, the player, but it's only after that I realized that it was indeed addressing those watching videos of it. Pretty cool meta commentary, yeah.

 

[tirkaroKujo]

It's been well over a month by this point and I still can't get this game outta my head. I still end up looking up LPs just to see everyones reactions to the more absurd parts of the game. (My personal favorite being

Spoiler

Mettaton EX

)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2VcFBmtFlo
Also if it doesn't go entirely against the rules, a friend of a friend of my mine did a video analysis on this game and it was a really thought provoking listen. It really goes to show all the many things a simple 6 hour game can mean to different people.

 

[1upsuper]

It's been well over a month by this point and I still can't get this game outta my head. I still end up looking up LPs just to see everyones reactions to the more absurd parts of the game. (My personal favorite being

Spoiler

Mettaton EX

)

It's been nearly two months for me and I still keep up on new fan art and music, and I listen to the OST very frequently. It's definitely had a lasting impact on me. I only just started watching other peoples' runs and it can be really fun. Cryaotic's run may be my favorite. A lot of his reactions and his overall feelings toward the game really reminded me of my own.

 

[BrosukeHanamura]

Neat animation(contains spoilers):

Spoiler

Grillby's: Where Everyone Knows Your Name