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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?

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M

marq_roq

Neo Member
Tovarisc said:
C9EiCfsVYAApNkK.jpg

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/851500160580550656
Click to expand...

It's still shocking to me that people/companies don't remember that smart phones exist. Everything is being watched.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
cpp_is_king said:
This is nuts, if nobody volunteers you keep raising the incentive. It's not the customers fault they stupidly overbooked the flight. If they had gone up to $1500 cash incentive I guarantee you someone would have volunteered.

I hope this guy gets millions from them.

The ironic thing is this is not even a week after the dress code scandal.

Fuck United, not flying with these losers ever again. May they be forever Uber'ed
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Someone on that flight had a price they would take. My sister-in-law routinely takes the money if it is offered. She has a pretty flexible job and a free hotel and cash for her next flight are worth it to her.

I have never and will never take it. My time to me is too valuable and when I am traveling it is almost always for a meeting or convention. Even if it is for pleasure or to get home, I want to be back in my bed or make whatever dinner reservation I had that night.

Don't oversell your fucking airplane. Dont bump paying passengers because you need to get a flight attendant somewhere else. And if you need to do one of the above, pay real cash out and keep raising the amount until someone volunteers to take it. I promise you at 1,000 dollars for a one day delay someone will bite.

I have also never seen someone asked to leave a plane after boarding it. Seems to me that someone issued this man a boarding pass and let them on the plane. Once I'm seated? GTFO.
 
M

Meier

Member
Ri'Orius said:
Shitty comparison. Better comparison:

If you go to McDonald's, buy a burger, and sit there past closing time, eventually they will call the police on you, and if you refuse to go peacefully said police will drag you out. And if you struggle enough while being dragged out someone (most likely you) will get hurt.

I do think the "I'm a doctor" card should've allowed him to dodge the draft and get the computer to RNG up another conscript, but at the same time: if security tells you to move and you don't, this is what happens.
Click to expand...

This is the worst comparison to this situation I've ever seen.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
jungomitis said:
Not that anyone has the responsibility to. But how do people feel about there seemingly being no other passenger willing to help the guy? The videos show people screaming but their butt's attached to their seat
Click to expand...

Maybe it was the bystander effect. Or they didn't want to get manhandled either by jumping in.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
"Oversold" is bullshit. I have never heard of a flight being oversold, passengers allowed to board, then a random lottery to determine which passengers would be removed from the flight.

If it was oversold, the last passengers to arrive wouldn't be allowed on, they wouldn't physically remove passengers already seated.
Click to expand...
This is pretty standard in the last few years. Overbooking has become a routine part of their business.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
cchum said:
Erm....why was everyone on the doctor's side then? Doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

"He fell."

When I worked security, this was sidespeak for "he got softened up on a doorframe a half dozen times before getting the Jazzy Jeff treatment out the door."

jungomitis said:
Not that anyone has the responsibility to. But how do people feel about there seemingly being no other passenger willing to help the guy? The videos show people screaming but their butt's attached to their seat
Click to expand...

You're wondering why the people relieved to not have been randomly selected to GTFO the plane aren't jumping up to box with American police? Unless it's a plane full of John Cutters and Jack Reachers, that's not very realistic.
 
K

kai3345

Banned
jungomitis said:
Not that anyone has the responsibility to. But how do people feel about there seemingly being no other passenger willing to help the guy? The videos show people screaming but their butt's attached to their seat
Click to expand...

they could have if they'd wanted to "fall" as well
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
StoOgE said:
Also,

DONT OVERSELL YOUR FUCKING FLIGHTS.

And if you do, be prepared to pony up some money. Real money. Not credit on your airline that expires. Cash. You fucked up, pay me.

I don't understand why in 2017 it is acceptable for an airline (or hotel) to sell more tickets than they have seats. Standby is fine, but bumping someone with a confirmed seat from the plane is totally and completely unacceptable.

Entire itineraries are booked based on flights. 500 dollars and a free ticket the next day isn't going to do it for me if I need to be at work the next day or have an important meeting at 8AM in the location I'm flying to.
Click to expand...

I saw a report of why airliners overbook flights. The formula took into account paying off customers and/or giving them a hotel room for the night. Seems United removed the paying off part of the equation. You increase the pay off enough, people who can afford to wait until the next day will take it. I would have hoped the FAA would have gotten involved about this practice and the increasing fees, but I feel now there is zero chance of that happening.
 
O

old manatee

Banned
CTLance said:
The US is a scary place. Abusing a passenger that refuses to "voluntarily" leave a flight he paid for just because they couldn't get their own freaking personnel to the right place on time is just... so many levels of awful.

Really boggles the mind.

Especially the "voluntary" part. What's next? Not enough fuel, so a random bunch of "volunteers" gets to leave their baggage at the airport, to be delivered by catapult?
Click to expand...


It's amazing. It's like going into a Starbucks and ordering a cup of coffee, and after you pay for it they sell your cup of coffee to the next guy and try to take it back and then a SWAT team comes through the door to bring you to justice. Whatever happened to 'a deal is a deal'.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
Ri'Orius said:
Shitty comparison. Better comparison:

If you go to McDonald's, buy a burger, and sit there past closing time, eventually they will call the police on you, and if you refuse to go peacefully said police will drag you out. And if you struggle enough while being dragged out someone (most likely you) will get hurt.

I do think the "I'm a doctor" card should've allowed him to dodge the draft and get the computer to RNG up another conscript, but at the same time: if security tells you to move and you don't, this is what happens.
Click to expand...

You buy a burger. They give you a burger. They run out of burgers. They ask for your burger back to give to an employee, and offer to give you one tomorrow. You say no, because you're really hungry. They call the police, who come and beat your ass.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
jungomitis said:
Not that anyone has the responsibility to. But how do people feel about there seemingly being no other passenger willing to help the guy? The videos show people screaming but their butt's attached to their seat
Click to expand...

Violence is funny like that. Eventually, somewhere a spark will light and it'll happen.

Those police protests that turn into riots are pretty much that. Push people far enough and when they don't have much more to loose everyone will join in.

Guess those people still put getting home above helping that poor guy.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
This is pretty standard in the last few years. Overbooking has become a routine part of their business.
Click to expand...

I understand that overbooking exists, but they don't let passengers board if that's the case. They don't let them take their seats and then remove them. Usually they'll announce at the terminal that the flight is overbooked and ask people to give up their seats. Here they didn't do that until passengers were seated on the plane.

And again, what would give a passenger not on the plane priority over one who had been seated? This wasn't an overbooking problem, this was United trying to get their crew for a different plane on that flight. Calling it "oversold" is complete bullshit, and the Chicago PD shouldn't just be towing the United company line here.
 
bloodydrake

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
ColdDeckEd said:
I truly hope that one day when you choose to take United for an important trip that your job or career depends on that you get picked to give up your seat. I'm sure you wouldn't be mad and refuse. I'm sure you'll be thinking "shucks just my luck, better get off the plane.".
Click to expand...

well i appreciate your wishing bad things on me, but there is no scenario where it isn't life or death were I would refuse the order of 3 officers to leave the plane.
Of coarse I would be mad..just not crazy.
 
F

Flo_Evans

Member
TyrantII said:
Violence is funny like that. Eventually, somewhere a spark will light and it'll happen.

Those police protests that turn into riots are pretty much that. Push people far enough and when they don't have much more to loose everyone will join in.

Guess those people still put getting home above helping that poor guy.
Click to expand...

I think they are saying why did no one offer their seat, not why did no one try and fight the cops.
 
B

BigAT

Member
jungomitis said:
Not that anyone has the responsibility to. But how do people feel about there seemingly being no other passenger willing to help the guy? The videos show people screaming but their butt's attached to their seat
Click to expand...

What does helping the guy involve though, attacking the police that were assaulting him? How do you think that would end for anyone that tried?
 
R

Ri'Orius

Member
MugiwaraCole said:
This comparison stinks. He had a right to be there.

What the hell is wrong with y'all?
Click to expand...

A lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression, but a ticket doesn't give you 'the right' to be there. Part of the terms you agree to when you buy it is that flights get delayed, canceled or overbooked and sometimes that means you're going to be kicked off. And furthermore that if such an event occurs, you will be transferred to a later flight at no cost, including hotel accommodations if appropriate and in the case of overbooking travel vouchers for later.

That's how the industry works. You may not like it, but I don't like it that my McDonald's closes at 10. Doesn't give me the right to barge in at 11 and demand McNuggets with Mulan sauce.


TangoAlphaLima said:
"Oversold" is bullshit. I have never heard of a flight being oversold, passengers allowed to board, then a random lottery to determine which passengers would be removed from the flight.

If it was oversold, the last passengers to arrive wouldn't be allowed on, they wouldn't physically remove passengers already seated.
Click to expand...

Oh god, are we going to get into conspiracy theories now? What, did Donald Trump personally tell United to kick off any Asians?

As the article says, the last passengers in this scenario are crewmembers needed for a later flight. No, they're not going to leave them behind and cancel that flight, inconveniencing a hundred passengers, when they can instead inconvenience four.

I've been on flights and had someone come over the PA system saying 'we need X volunteers.' It's rare, and I'll admit I don't know the full details of what goes on behind the scenes to create that scenario, but I see no reason to suspect it's cover for whatever nonsense you're implying.
 
R

rambis

Banned
TangoAlphaLima said:
"Oversold" is bullshit. I have never heard of a flight being oversold, passengers allowed to board, then a random lottery to determine which passengers would be removed from the flight.

If it was oversold, the last passengers to arrive wouldn't be allowed on, they wouldn't physically remove passengers already seated.
Click to expand...

As someone who's flown regularly up until this year, this is almost always how its been handled. They usually announce prior to boarding that the plane is oversold and offer huge incentives(say like a $500 credit) for someone to volunteer off. I have been on a plane where they have asked from someone to get off but it didn't seem anywhere near as brash as this.

This situation seems like they discovered whatever employee needing to use the seat at the last minute, after everybody boarding and then deciding to give the employee priority over the passenger.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
mgarnica89 said:
don't know if this video has been posted but WOW. Unbelievable what they did to this guy.

https://twitter.com/kaylyn_davis/status/851480498186485760
Click to expand...

bloodydrake said:
well i appreciate your wishing bad things on me, but there is no scenario where it isn't life or death were I would refuse the order of 3 officers to leave the plane.
Of coarse I would be mad..just not crazy.
Click to expand...

You never responded. You believe he deserved this for not wanting to get off the plane?

I want a clear answer
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
dskillzhtown said:
I saw a report of why airliners overbook flights. The formula took into account paying off customers and/or giving them a hotel room for the night. Seems United removed the paying off part of the equation. You increase the pay off enough, people who can afford to wait until the next day will take it. I would have hoped the FAA would have gotten involved about this practice and the increasing fees, but I feel now there is zero chance of that happening.
Click to expand...

Right, but the whole system is insane.

I get it. People will miss connections, and you have some percentage of how often it will happen and you don't want empty seats on your flight.

But I didn't sign up to be part of an algorithm that assumes 10% of us will be late because you aren't on time from your previous flight. I intend to make it to my final destination, and have a ticket that you sold me that gets me a seat that will get me there.

If your algorithm breaks you need to keep offering more money until the plane isn't full. Or, you need to make it very clear WHO is last in line and sell me a cheaper ticket. "This ticket is half off, but you are first to be bumped. If you are bumped, we'll give you a hotel and put you on a guaranteed flight the next morning"

It needs to be clear what is happening because travel is a real pain in the ass already, and having the potential to have a ticket you pay money for not be honored by the people who sold it to you is fucking insane.

I've never done anything else where I pay money for something and am told when I get there that its not gonna happen and I need to come back the next morning for the service I reserved and paid for.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Ri'Orius said:
A lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression, but a ticket doesn't give you 'the right' to be there. Part of the terms you agree to when you buy it is that flights get delayed, canceled or overbooked and sometimes that means you're going to be kicked off. And furthermore that if such an event occurs, you will be transferred to a later flight at no cost, including hotel accommodations if appropriate and in the case of overbooking travel vouchers for later.

That's how the industry works. You may not like it, but I don't like it that my McDonald's closes at 10. Doesn't give me the right to barge in at 11 and demand McNuggets with Mulan sauce.




Oh god, are we going to get into conspiracy theories now? What, did Donald Trump personally tell United to kick off any Asians?

As the article says, the last passengers in this scenario are crewmembers needed for a later flight. No, they're not going to leave them behind and cancel that flight, inconveniencing a hundred passengers, when they can instead inconvenience four.

I've been on flights and had someone come over the PA system saying 'we need X volunteers.' It's rare, and I'll admit I don't know the full details of what goes on behind the scenes to create that scenario, but I see no reason to suspect it's cover for whatever nonsense you're implying.
Click to expand...

Yes, you do have the 'right' to be there. You literally do in fact have that right. It's crazy how people have let corporations blind them to their actual rights. You do in fact have a right to be on a plane you bought a ticket for. It is your legal right to be there. I can't believe I'm saying this
 
C

Conor_Fool

Banned
StoOgE said:
Exactly.

Someone on that flight had a price they would take. My sister-in-law routinely takes the money if it is offered. She has a pretty flexible job and a free hotel and cash for her next flight are worth it to her.

I have never and will never take it. My time to me is too valuable and when I am traveling it is almost always for a meeting or convention. Even if it is for pleasure or to get home, I want to be back in my bed or make whatever dinner reservation I had that night.

Don't oversell your fucking airplane. Dont bump paying passengers because you need to get a flight attendant somewhere else. And if you need to do one of the above, pay real cash out and keep raising the amount until someone volunteers to take it. I promise you at 1,000 dollars for a one day delay someone will bite.

I have also never seen someone asked to leave a plane after boarding it. Seems to me that someone issued this man a boarding pass and let them on the plane. Once I'm seated? GTFO.
Click to expand...
My first thought as well. Someone will take it, and if they routinely don't and situations like this occur, then just CHANGE your dumbass practice!

Feel terrible for this man.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
Ri'Orius said:
Shitty comparison. Better comparison:

If you go to McDonald's, buy a burger, and sit there past closing time, eventually they will call the police on you, and if you refuse to go peacefully said police will drag you out. And if you struggle enough while being dragged out someone (most likely you) will get hurt.

I do think the "I'm a doctor" card should've allowed him to dodge the draft and get the computer to RNG up another conscript, but at the same time: if security tells you to move and you don't, this is what happens.
Click to expand...

Not only is this a horrifically shitty comparison, it is was WAY worse of a comparison that you were chiding.

Just utter shit.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
guybrushfreeman said:
Yes, you do have the 'right' to be there. You literally do in fact have that right. It's crazy how people have let corporations blind them to their actual rights. You do in fact have a right to be on a plane you bought a ticket for. It is your legal right to be there. I can't believe I'm saying this
Click to expand...
It's getting insane in here, and everywhere, really. People have no respect for themselves if they'd give up their own rights for corporations to have it easier. :/
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
Ri'Orius said:
Shitty comparison. Better comparison:

If you go to McDonald's, buy a burger, and sit there past closing time, eventually they will call the police on you, and if you refuse to go peacefully said police will drag you out. And if you struggle enough while being dragged out someone (most likely you) will get hurt.
Click to expand...

? That comparison doesn't work at all.
It's more like you go to a McDonald's, buy a burger, well within working hours, almost ready to start your first bite then they suddenly steal your fucking hamburger and say "GET THE FUCK OUT"
 
M

Makonero

Member
StoOgE said:
Right, but the whole system is insane.

I get it. People will miss connections, and you have some percentage of how often it will happen and you don't want empty seats on your flight.

But I didn't sign up to be part of an algorithm that assumes 10% of us will be late because you aren't on time from your previous flight. I intend to make it to my final destination, and have a ticket that you sold me that gets me a seat that will get me there.

If your algorithm breaks you need to keep offering more money until the plane isn't full. Or, you need to make it very clear WHO is last in line and sell me a cheaper ticket. "This ticket is half off, but you are first to be bumped. If you are bumped, we'll give you a hotel and put you on a guaranteed flight the next morning"

It needs to be clear what is happening because travel is a real pain in the ass already, and having the potential to have a ticket you pay money for not be honored by the people who sold it to you is fucking insane.

I've never done anything else where I pay money for something and am told when I get there that its not gonna happen and I need to come back the next morning for the service I reserved and paid for.
Click to expand...
Exactly. What are we buying if the ticket we have doesn't give us the service we paid for? If all we're buying is a lottery ticket that *might* get us to the place we're intending to go, then maybe they should be subject to the rules and regulations of a casino or lottery service.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Ri'Orius said:
Oh god, are we going to get into conspiracy theories now? What, did Donald Trump personally tell United to kick off any Asians?

As the article says, the last passengers in this scenario are crewmembers needed for a later flight. No, they're not going to leave them behind and cancel that flight, inconveniencing a hundred passengers, when they can instead inconvenience four.

I've been on flights and had someone come over the PA system saying 'we need X volunteers.' It's rare, and I'll admit I don't know the full details of what goes on behind the scenes to create that scenario, but I see no reason to suspect it's cover for whatever nonsense you're implying.
Click to expand...

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's right there in the facts we have, you just read between the lines.

United also could have offered more than $800 in travel vouchers for an incentive to get people to volunteer, nothing said that they had to physically remove paying customers to get their own employees on that flight.

But bow down to your corporate overlords if you like, I'm sure they appreciate your support.

rambis said:
As someone who's flown regularly up until this year, this is almost always how its been handled. They usually announce prior to boarding that the plane is oversold and offer huge incentives(say like a $500 credit) for someone to volunteer off. I have been on a plane where they have asked from someone to get off but it didn't seem anywhere near as brash as this.

This situation seems like they discovered whatever employee needing to use the seat at the last minute, after everybody boarding and then deciding to give the employee priority over the passenger.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly what happened, it's clear as day from reading the story, but United isn't going to come out and admit it. This is terrible PR as it is, can you imagine if they admitted that they manhandled a paying customer to get him off the plane so their employees could have the seat?
 
N

nature boy

Member
LOL 69 years old?

What court in their right mind is gonna side with United?

Pepsi ain't got nothing on United. CEO is so fucking toast.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
guybrushfreeman said:
Yes, you do have the 'right' to be there. You literally do in fact have that right. It's crazy how people have let corporations blind them to their actual rights. You do in fact have a right to be on a plane you bought a ticket for. It is your legal right to be there. I can't believe I'm saying this
Click to expand...

The contract you have with the airline is based around the T&C of your ticket. It's not as simple as "rights!". Being forcefully dragged down an aeroplane, and being hurt, is the issue here.

A lot of shit you won't/don't like is able to happen to your airline ticket. As emotions are high on GAF and across the web over this some are making a bit of a hash of understanding some legalities/terms here. For better or worse, they exist, and it's best to report them accurately rather than just make things up.

Discussions around what airlines can get away with night hold some merit from this incident. Many are not likely to change though as they are worldwide practices, not just American. When it comes to delays, cancellations, overbooking, weather, etc. Tons of small print and clauses.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Do they give you cash or is it just credit for another United flight? Because I'm not sure why you'd want to fly United again after you get bumped. lol
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
Ri'Orius said:
A lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression, but a ticket doesn't give you 'the right' to be there. Part of the terms you agree to when you buy it is that flights get delayed, canceled or overbooked and sometimes that means you're going to be kicked off. And furthermore that if such an event occurs, you will be transferred to a later flight at no cost, including hotel accommodations if appropriate and in the case of overbooking travel vouchers for later.

That's how the industry works. You may not like it, but I don't like it that my McDonald's closes at 10. Doesn't give me the right to barge in at 11 and demand McNuggets with Mulan sauce.
Click to expand...

I hope the small print doesn't state airline are allowed to assault and hurt passangers.

This specific case is a basic human rights issue, to entertain the idea that any airline can do with me as they place for reasons is insane.
 
N

norm9

Member
Is he gonna get his voucher, miles, and hotel room? After getting roughed up, he should, and that's before the lawsuit settlement.
 
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