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[ZOONAMI]

All they had to do was get on the PA and say we are overbooked and need to get an employee on the plane. Please come up to the front of the plane if you are willing to take the next flight and we will give you $1,000. Probably would have had at least 10 people get up.

 

[MrPressStart]

I didn't see the whole thing, but the part I saw sure didn't look like the guy fell and hit his head. It looks like he was picked up drug out of the seat and slammed in the isle.

 

[Sparkedglory]

Fuck united airlines. Like seriously? Do they not know the concept of "volunteer"? The dude should sue them to hell and back.

And even though I was on his side from the beginning. I was kind of curious as to why the lady said "look at what you did to him" because the damage didn't look that bad at first, but then after you see all the blood. Like seriously? Come the fuck on.

 

[Meier]

A lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression, but a ticket doesn't give you 'the right' to be there. Part of the terms you agree to when you buy it is that flights get delayed, canceled or overbooked and sometimes that means you're going to be kicked off. And furthermore that if such an event occurs, you will be transferred to a later flight at no cost, including hotel accommodations if appropriate and in the case of overbooking travel vouchers for later.

That's how the industry works. You may not like it, but I don't like it that my McDonald's closes at 10. Doesn't give me the right to barge in at 11 and demand McNuggets with Mulan sauce.

You keep using some form of this analogy and it's fucking atrocious and in no way comparable. I'm going to block you so I don't ever see anything you say again, hopefully, but you and people like you are disgusting.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It is not your legal right to be there. That's the contract you agree to when you buy a ticket from United.

Or are you going to go all Sovereign Citizen on me? If you tell them you're not flying, you're traveling, does that unlock secret text in the Declaration of Independence that means you can ignore these terms?



That's always going to be a risk when flying. Weather, mechanical failures, even such issues halfway across the country can all interfere with your plans. And they're all far more likely to interfere with your plans than the scenario in this instance.

Don't let this anecdote get you down. Your odds of a successful flight are 98% right now, and if they stopped overselling seats they'd go up to, what, 98.01%? Being on an oversold flight, that nobody's willing to volunteer for, and having your number come up: this is ridiculously unlikely. Not worth worrying about.

I'm not sure what you think you're proving with that link. It actually highlights the fact that something went horribly wrong though. There is no provision there for kicking a person who has already boarded off an oversold flight.

The provisions for oversold flights all refer to pre-boarding procedures. This was clearly not supposed to have happen after boarding

It's not clear there are any provisions there for being forcibly removed from an oversold flight after being on board. I believe you and others are incorrect here. He had a right to be on the plane once it boarded, the previsions for oversold flights all refer to pre-boarding procedures

 

[droggg]

Disgusting.

 

[BitStyle]

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

But the man had paid for his confirmed seat. Overbooking is an inexcusable practice, because it leads to bullshit like this. If they didn't overbook flights, this situation would have never happened.

 

[StoOgE]

[
That's always going to be a risk when flying. Weather, mechanical failures, even such issues halfway across the country can all interfere with your plans. And they're all far more likely to interfere with your plans than the scenario in this instance.

Don't let this anecdote get you down. Your odds of a successful flight are 98% right now, and if they stopped overselling seats they'd go up to, what, 98.01%? Being on an oversold flight, that nobody's willing to volunteer for, and having your number come up: this is ridiculously unlikely. Not worth worrying about.

Weather and Mechanical Failure are acceptable risks that I understand that are also out of the airlines hands 9 times out of 10, and are safety issues. The airline doesn't owe me a hurricane not developing over the Atlantic. They owe me a safe plane, so when they determine a plane is not safe, the priority needs to be to cancel or delay flights for safety.

Computer System outages are unacceptable as well, but it happens and is not something the airline is doing intentionally. While those are annoying as hell, its something that is in the airlines best interest to correct as well.

Oversold flights are a choice made by the airline. And the thing is, if people refuse the payments offered *someone* is going to get bumped from the flight. It might be a 1/180 chance it's me (and I generally buy an upgrade to premium economy at the least to lessen those chances), but there is a 100% chance that someone on that flight will have their travel plans interrupted because of a decision the airline made.

 

[Username1198]

That's fucking gross breh

 

[Audioboxer]

All they had to do was get on the PA and say we are overbooked and need to get an employee on the plane. Please come up to the front of the plane if you are willing to take the next flight and we will give you $1,000. Probably would have had at least 10 people get up.

They did that and no one came forward. So they moved onto the next thing they are legally allowed to do, random choosing of passengers. 2 people accepted leaving, this man refused. Things escalated. It's all in the OP. As I said the worst case scenario here should have been ongoing stalemate and continued random choosing until another 2 people left.

Airlines get fined and other things for leaving the runway late when it's their fault so it's all about $. To which the answer is tough, you overbooked.

 

[StopMakingSense]

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It is not your legal right to be there. That's the contract you agree to when you buy a ticket from United.

Or are you going to go all Sovereign Citizen on me? If you tell them you're not flying, you're traveling, does that unlock secret text in the Declaration of Independence that means you can ignore these terms?

Have you actually read those terms?

I fail to see how this falls under RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT

I could see you trying to argue 'Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.', but that's recursive, as the breach would be not complying with a Refusal request.

And every instance of 'overbooking', etc, falls under 'RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION' which specifically calls out what should happen prior to boarding, and not after.

 

[GK86]

I'm pretty sure it is in the terms and conditions, that you agree to when you buy the ticket I might add, that the airline reserves the right to send goons to beat you up. 100% the doctors fault.

/s

 

[ZOONAMI]

But the man had paid for his confirmed seat. Overbooking is an inexcusable practice, because it leads to bullshit like this. If they didn't overbook flights, this situation would have never happened.

Yeah it is a bad policy based on making more $ as a certain amount of people don't make a flight typically so they try to sell those seats twice.

 

[Angry Puppy]

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It is not your legal right to be there. That's the contract you agree to when you buy a ticket from United.

Or are you going to go all Sovereign Citizen on me? If you tell them you're not flying, you're traveling, does that unlock secret text in the Declaration of Independence that means you can ignore these terms?

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

So because it's legal, it's just?

 

[Sane_Man]

The fuck? I'm all for taking the piss out of UA, but this is just mocking the victim. Tasteless as fuck.

 

[MisterR]

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

You and United will discover what the outrage is when they pay this guy his millions. Just because you may have a legal right to do something, certainly doesn't mean that you should do it. There was tons of other better solutions to this situation and United will be paying out the ass for not choosing another way to do business. You'd do well to take that to mind in your life going forward if this is your level of critical thinking.

 

[2Smashed4U]

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

I for one welcome our corporate overlords!

 

[Insane Metal]

That poll... holy hell. The service dog one... just wow.

 

[Wagram]

It's United. They've been a piece of shit company for a long time.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

They did that and no one came forward. So they moved onto the next thing they are legally allowed to do, random choosing of passengers. 2 people accepted leaving, this man refused. Things escalated. It's all in the OP. As I said the worst case scenario here should have been ongoing stalemate and continued random choosing until another 2 people left.

Airlines get fined and other things for leaving the runway late when it's their fault so it's all about $. To which the answer is tough, you overbooked.

I'm interested in your opinion here. I can see no reference to this process being allowed after the plane has boarded at all

 

[Reg]

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

Agreed, they were lenient. He's lucky he wasn't put in a coma.

Spoiler

Does this corporate dick taste weird to any one else?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

They did that and no one came forward. So they moved onto the next thing they are legally allowed to do, random choosing of passengers. 2 people accepted leaving, this man refused. Things escalated. It's all in the OP. As I said the worst case scenario here should have been ongoing stalemate and continued random choosing until another 2 people left.

No, actually they stopped at offering an $800 voucher. And that was after initially offering $400. They could have offered more before forcing people to take their $800 offer. That's called unequal bargaining.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Is this supposed to be funny? Because it's tasteless as fuck.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I've never experienced any transportation-company overbooking tickets. That shit can't be legal in EU?

All of you playing devil's advocate for United, fuck off. They shouldn't overbook, and if they have to to stay afloat, offer ridiculous sums of money to the volunteers, or send the employees by bus.

 

[Skellig Gra]

And this is what I was talking about earlier saying I'd rather take the $800, than the 500k payout and immortal internet meme-ification.

 

[2Smashed4U]

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It is not your legal right to be there. That's the contract you agree to when you buy a ticket from United.

Or are you going to go all Sovereign Citizen on me? If you tell them you're not flying, you're traveling, does that unlock secret text in the Declaration of Independence that means you can ignore these terms?



That's always going to be a risk when flying. Weather, mechanical failures, even such issues halfway across the country can all interfere with your plans. And they're all far more likely to interfere with your plans than the scenario in this instance.

Don't let this anecdote get you down. Your odds of a successful flight are 98% right now, and if they stopped overselling seats they'd go up to, what, 98.01%? Being on an oversold flight, that nobody's willing to volunteer for, and having your number come up: this is ridiculously unlikely. Not worth worrying about.

How much is United paying you to play PR for them?

 

[Tain]

I think the airline has the right to remove him as stated by the airline. If he refuse to leave, they have the right to forcefully remove him as federal law says all passengers must obey the flight crew. I don't know what the outrage is here. They were all doing their jobs. The man needed to get the fuck out.

some of y'all would be fine with prima nocta as long as the proper decorum were in place, i swear to god

 

[old manatee]

I have a peanut allergy, but when I fly United I will still accept the complimentary bag of peanuts so that just in case The Airline comes for me I can just fucking end it all before they can take me alive.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I have a peanut allergy, but when I fly United I will still accept the complimentary bag of peanuts so that just in case The Airline comes for me I can just fucking end it all before they can take me alive.

They discontinued peanuts a long time ago.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Have you actually read those terms?

I fail to see how this falls under RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT

I could see you trying to argue 'Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.', but that's recursive, as the breach would be not complying with a Refusal request.

And every instance of 'overbooking', etc, falls under 'RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION' which specifically calls out what should happen prior to boarding, and not after.

Exactly. That distinction is very important and probably why United is in such a rush to contact this gentleman and settle this out of court. The guy was already in his seat.

It's also why they've started to portray this guy as someone who was yelling and whatnot, because the only thing they've got to remove him is Rule 21H(1) to get rid of someone whose "conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent".

 

[Korey]

This story is currently 10 out of 25 posts on Reddit's front page. Crazy.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

You guys can't be for real..

That's the common take on stuff like this. People generally prefer order to justice. Just do what you're told, don't upset anyone or anything. Intellectual/ethical bystander effect.

 

[theignoramus]

I hope violentlt dragging a nonthreatening customer off the plane was worth the terrible optics it gives United.

 

[cchum]

Officer on leave: https://twitter.com/AP/status/851512878624628737

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Exactly. That distinction is very important and probably why United is in such a rush to contact this gentleman and settle this out of court. The guy was already in his seat.

It's also why they've started to portray this guy as someone who was yelling and whatnot, because the only thing they've got to remove him is Rule 21H(1) to get rid of someone whose "conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent".

Yeah I seriously don't think they were allowed to do this after boarding

 

[old manatee]

They discontinued peanuts a long time ago.

I'll never discontinue my 80's air travel jokes.

 

[Spartancarver]

He's gonna sue the shit out of them, win, and the GAF United Airlines defense force is gonna cry about it

 

[Skellig Gra]

I'll never discontinue my 80's air travel jokes.

I'll see myself out lol

 

[thehypocrite]

the extremely tangible and physical hand of the free market

Indeed.

 

[bloodydrake]

Yeah, but where's the tongue in cheek joke? I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but maybe you could make fun of the way he's holding on to that curtain like some sort of desperate baby? Or maybe something about his accent? That stuff always kills.

Where be your gibes now? Your gambols? Your songs? Your flashes of merriment, that were wont to set the table on a roar? How are you going to make light of human suffering in the name of excusing authoritarianism without some classic tongue in cheek yuck yucks?

try harder

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I hope the guy can get proper retribution and for airlines to finally start treating their paying customers with some respect. Really sad that this happened to a minority as well. Watching the video it was also shocking how many people just let it happen.

 

[oxidax]

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/851500160580550656

Aka customer is complaining because he paid for a seat and the airline wants to strip him from it, so we're coming over because fuck you customer. What a shit excuse. Fuck you, United and Shame on you Chicago Police.

I hope this guy sues the fuck out of them.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Yeah I seriously don't think they were allowed to do this after boarding

I hope this guy is someone's grandpa and has family who has already found him legal counsel. I know how these companies will contact him and try to trick him into accepting a bs settlement. He's going to get violated again if he's not already represented.

It's absolutely intentional that they want to try to contact him right now when he's still obviously in a daze and in shock from the trauma, and possibly before he's had a chance to retain legal representation.

 

[cchum]

Aka customer is complaining because he paid for a seat and the airline wants to strip him from it, so we're coming over because fuck you customer. What a shit excuse. Fuck you, United and Shame on you Chicago Police.

He's on leave now

 

[ameleco]

I don't get the posts that talk about the legality of it. We get it. It's completely legal. That doesn't mean that it's okay. They could have figured out a better way to make this work (more money, chartering are things I've seen here and yeah, would work) but they instead chose to be assholes and now they have a huge nightmare on their hands. I've seen this story everywhere today and they eff'd up.

Anyways, my main question is this: can the guy actually get money from United out of this via court? What are the legal arguments he could use here?

 

[Akainu]

I'm divided on this. They offered a voluntary option for 4 people to leave and no one took it, so 4 random passengers is the next best option if they truly needed the seats.

The other 3 passengers got off without issue, yet this one, refuses to leave... Wouldn't it have been easier to just leave and kick up a fuss with them afterwards? Instead he wanted them to reroll the dice and refused to leave. You don't refuse to leave when security of a private business ask you to leave.

Still, the physical removal seemed very over the top but if he's refusing it's no doubt going to have to come to some physical removal. I mean, you get physically chucked out of any private business if you refuse to leave.

Crappy customer service but if you're asked to leave, just leave. Complain afterwards.

A defense for everything.

 

[Tovarisc]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/851512878624628737

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm interested in your opinion here. I can see no reference to this process being allowed after the plane has boarded at all

If you don't have evidence that things change on the plane, then why aren't you going with what the regulations are for overbooking in general? I mean, using a lack of evidence for evidence isn't all that compelling.

Whether it's at the gate, or on the plane, both are after check-in and both are applicable to the same compensation principles.

No, actually they stopped at offering an $800 voucher. And that was after initially offering $400. They could have offered more before forcing people to take their $800 offer. That's called unequal bargaining.

Because voluntary and mandatory leaving seem to be under two different compensation categories

I posted this article earlier

Flights are overbooked all the time. If you're going to be bumped, don't volunteer to take the airline's compensation—whether they offer cash or a voucher. Instead, be one of those passengers involuntarily denied boarding and receive much more in compensation.

The infographic below from AirHelp explains why overbooking happens and how to minimize your chances of getting bumped from a flight. It also explains the monetary benefits of being bumped, though. If you volunteer to be denied boarding, the airline might offer you $200-$400 back, but if you're involuntarily denied, federal regulations require you to be compensated up to $1,300, depending on how much of a delay was involved. You should get 2 to 4 times the ticket price plus a full refund of your original ticket.

http://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-volunteer-to-get-bum-1722036179

As per here in the EU, voluntary bumping is "up to you and the airline to agree", whereas involuntary has stricter guidelines which allude to MORE compensation

Both also result in mandatory re-scheduling onto another flight for free, and potentially hotel and eating costs depending on how long you need to wait.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Re...our-rights-when-you-are-bumped-from-a-flight/

Why would anyone take voluntary you say? Well, it's guaranteed compensation. Waiting till it's random and you have a very small chance of getting selected.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

This story is currently 10 out of 25 posts on Reddit's front page. Crazy.

It's hard to remember a bigger PR disaster in recent history. Even Pepsi seems tame compared to this.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I don't get the posts that talk about the legality of it. We get it. It's completely legal. That doesn't mean that it's okay. They could have figured out a better way to make this work (more money, chartering are things I've seen here and yeah, would work) but they instead chose to be assholes and now they have a huge nightmare on their hands. I've seen this story everywhere today and they eff'd up.

Anyways, my main question is this: can the guy actually get money from United out of this via court? What are the legal arguments he could use here?

I don't think they abided by their own terms.

Negligence, breach of contract, possibly discrimination depending on how they came to the determination that he should be involuntarily booted, obviously intentional/negligent infliction of emotional distress. If he suffered financial losses due to not being able to return to his patients, I'd possibly also argue tortious interference with business contracts/relations.