-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat
- Thread starter Korey
- Start date
- Status
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
You literally just made a joke about the man getting dragged. Don't try to act cool now,
Article from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nes-video-passenger-removed-overbooked-flight
This is up with there with 'plane crash' in terms of bad publicity. Holy shit.
And that Chicago PD statement. 😑
And that Chicago PD statement. 😑
Read the room....
Yes i think so, article 17 of montreal convention for injuries:
The US has adopted the Convention. It applies.
"The United States Supreme Court has defined accident under the Convention as an unexpected or unusual event or happening that is external to the passenger. Air France v. Saks, 470 U.S. 392, 405 (1985). This admittedly ambiguous definition has been defined broadly by courts to encompass passenger-to-passenger assaults, airplane hijacking, as well as the failure of an airline to provide proper medical attention to an ill passenger." https://www.bostoninjurylawyer-blog....l-flights.html
Sounds exactly right.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
But he just accidentally fell! Why all the fuss???
thehypocrite
Member
Fuck yeah!!! Fuck Human dignity!!! Let the free market work!!!
Corporations 👏👏👏👏!!!!
Corporations 👏👏👏👏!!!!
Corporations 👏👏👏👏!!!!
Corporations 👏👏👏👏!!!!
Ah, yeah wow. Lol United so fukt. On the plus side for this guy: he will probably never have to work again.
Interesting. Looks good for him
He deserves it after this shit treatment.jungomitis
Member
Right. As many mentioned - bystander effect and etc makes it a very difficult situation to step forward. Just wish someone would just stand between the victim and the aggressor but sadly that's not how this world works.
I think the answer to your question is someone called security saying a guy is causing problems and they treated him like he's causing a bomb threat type of problem without context in what's happening - "just following orders"
Very Berry Sunday
Member
I heard you can negiotate for a better deal, such as more money, more complementary future plane tickets, free hotel and food, miles
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
If you don't have evidence that things change on the plane, then why aren't you going with what the regulations are for overbooking in general? I mean, using a lack of evidence for evidence isn't all that compelling.
Whether it's at the gate, or on the plane, both are after check-in and both are applicable to the same compensation principles.
Because voluntary and mandatory leaving seem to be under two different compensation categories
I posted this article earlier
http://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is-overbooked-dont-volunteer-to-get-bum-1722036179
As per here in the EU, voluntary bumping is "up to you and the airline to agree", whereas involuntary has stricter guidelines which allude to MORE compensation
https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Re...our-rights-when-you-are-bumped-from-a-flight/
huh? Are you just saying they can just do whatever they want anytime? There is no way to remove someone by force after boarding because of overbooking. That's not a legitimate reason in the T&Cs to force someone off a plane.
The T&Cs talk about pre-boarding and yes, people agreed to that. There is no reference to removing people by force after boarding due to overbooking. So no one agreed to it as part of their ticket.
I'm not sure what you're saying? How come someone agree to a part of the T&Cs that don't exists? Of course it matters, your whole point was the T&Cs matter! Now they don't suddenly?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This makes me wonder which airlines company has the highest customer service rating.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
He just wanted to get home on the flight he paid for so he could treat his patients.
Clockwork
Member
I hate this shit.
I went to New York with my girlfriend and when we got to the airport for the return flight her ticket printed with our originally booked seat number and mine printed with a "please see gate attendant" message.
We were flying together which means if I got bumped I had to stay and fly the next morning. If she took the flight without me she would have to stay in a hotel overnight anyway and wait till I showed up anyway since we had about an hour and a half drive home once we landed (and obviously drove together). They (also United) had no sympathy and didn't want to do anything for my gf, just me (which was okay because neither of us were happy about what happened). I raised a fit and eventually they asked for volunteers instead of bumping me
Two kind ladies (mother and daughter) fortunately volunteered to take a free hotel stay and money for future travels. They actually seemed kind of pumped about it.
I went to New York with my girlfriend and when we got to the airport for the return flight her ticket printed with our originally booked seat number and mine printed with a "please see gate attendant" message.
We were flying together which means if I got bumped I had to stay and fly the next morning. If she took the flight without me she would have to stay in a hotel overnight anyway and wait till I showed up anyway since we had about an hour and a half drive home once we landed (and obviously drove together). They (also United) had no sympathy and didn't want to do anything for my gf, just me (which was okay because neither of us were happy about what happened). I raised a fit and eventually they asked for volunteers instead of bumping me
Two kind ladies (mother and daughter) fortunately volunteered to take a free hotel stay and money for future travels. They actually seemed kind of pumped about it.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Yeah it was a bad joke, shouldnt have done that. Still meant what I said, dunno what "acting cool" has to do with anything.
Less beatings too, I hope. Or are those just complementary.
Don't think any American airline cracks the top 10 lol
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Also possibly interference with business contracts. Negligence really depends on what an airline's duty of care to its passengers are. That would have to be researched though.
Alaskan airlines is pretty damn good. No complaints really.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
The vast majority of them are not American.
Year in and year out, the top 20-30 are pretty much dominated by Asian and Middle Eastern airlines.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
In fact now I'm quite sure of it. Reading the new link confirms the same thing. Overbooking procedures are supposed to occur before boarding.
There is plainly no regulation or T&Cs rule that allows the removal of a passenger by force after boarding due to overbooking.
If they are going to force someone (manditory overbooking) it needs to occur before boarding. There is no reference to forced removal being agreed to in any of those T&Cs or regulations
Edit: So I reiterate, yes, he absolutely had the 'right' in both the legal and moral sense to retain he seat on the plane if he chose to do so
There is plainly no regulation or T&Cs rule that allows the removal of a passenger by force after boarding due to overbooking.
If they are going to force someone (manditory overbooking) it needs to occur before boarding. There is no reference to forced removal being agreed to in any of those T&Cs or regulations
Edit: So I reiterate, yes, he absolutely had the 'right' in both the legal and moral sense to retain he seat on the plane if he chose to do so
TangoAlphaLima
Member
But that still doesn't explain why they didn't offer more. That article says a passenger can be compensated up to $1,300, in addition to receiving a full refund on the flight. So in this case, that's about $1,500 roughly.
United offered $800 vouchers, which are maybe worth half of that to United themselves, and were going to get passengers on another flight that had open seats. Granted, they were going to pay for a hotel stay, so that maybe another $100 or $200, but essentially they were offering about 1/3 what the law provides, and yet they refused to increase the offer to get actual volunteers.
There's also the aspect of treating your paying customers as people rather than cattle, but clearly they don't give a shit about that.
jungomitis
Member
The company I work for seemingly has preference for UA and I'm hoping this event escalates more so that we can't support UA as a company any more. The US olympics is sponsored by UA too. Hope all these corporate dealings burn down
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Well it's unethical for lawyers to do this. They can advertise generally (like all those asbestos ads you see on tv, or personal injury attorney commercials and billboards), but they can't target their advertising at specific people (i.e. ambulance chase). Hopefully someone who knows him has found someone though.
You gotta be a real piece of shit to stand up for the airline here.
Why the fuck do people support huge corporations over individual people? Are you part of the PR team? Are you the CEO?
Surely you realise these companies don't give a shit about you, so why go out and support them? Laughable.
Why the fuck do people support huge corporations over individual people? Are you part of the PR team? Are you the CEO?
Surely you realise these companies don't give a shit about you, so why go out and support them? Laughable.
Spartancarver
Member
For some people, being edgy and contrarian is its own reward.
I wonder where the fuck-up actually occurred: At check-in or at the boarding gate. Or did they decide they needed the seats after everyone was on board?
Chittagong
Gold Member
titiklabingapat
Member
This is United's fault 100%. If no one takes your $800 then fucking increase that amount. If no one takes it until $5000, then increase it to $10,000. Someone eventually *will* take it. It's not this doctor's fault that United is a fucking cheapass.
Overbooking stuff are also supposed to happen before boarding. When I'm already sitting in my seat, that's mine. You can't just randomly kick me off the plane unless you have an arrest warrant.
Overbooking stuff are also supposed to happen before boarding. When I'm already sitting in my seat, that's mine. You can't just randomly kick me off the plane unless you have an arrest warrant.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
He's a doctor I'm sure he knows of some or has one.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Also the American brainwashing from an early age about John Locke, free market, making as much as money as you can being the only thing that matters. All that bullshit naturally makes some people worship corporations. Remember corporations are people in our country.
I hope so. A lot of doctors hate lawyers though haha. I mean they'll have medical malpractice insurance that would hire them a lawyer if necessary for malpractice defense, but I don't know how many actually have one on retainer. Something like this requires a large firm that can handle all the bullshit big corporations pull in litigation (i.e. bombard you with useless discovery and countless motions and shit like that).
I hate those people
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
I wonder if perhaps they'd been ignoring that rule (do it before boarding) for quite some time but this is the first time it went wrong. I assume we'll find out over the next few days
Edit: I actually see what happened now. Not increasing the amount doesn't really matter if it's done pre-boarding. Read the regulations, there's a set amount for the lottery and if that doesn't work someone gets more but can't get on.
There is nothing in there about removing people by force because that's fucking insane. This was never supposed to happen after boarding because that's a fucking insane thing to do.
Why didn't they increase the amount? Because they were already at the highest set amount, which, if they hadn't boarded yet wouldn't be a big deal, someone at random would get the higher amount and the plane would board.
This situation however was fucking crazy and never should've happened.
Audioboxer
Member
I really don't know why you're having a go at me? I've stated multiple times what would have been a far more reasonable move here for the airline, and not once did it include dragging someone off.
I'm pretty certain airlines are legally covered as private entities to be able to in a cabin request someone leaves for just about anything. You seem to be awfully naive about how detailed the small print is on an airline ticket. Legally, nearly every single thing in humanity will be covered, that's why lawyers and "small print" exist.
How airlines and other private companies choose to act is what brings PR heat and outrage. In this instance, whether they can ask someone to leave and demand it, after selecting randomly, has to be weighed up with just accepting this customer ain't budging, move on and select someone else and rinse/repeat until the plane can take off. It's not worth doubling down on an agitated person, even with them being randomly selected. Just move on and try someone else, and keep reminding the cabin the plane is not taking off till 4 people accept compensation.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21
I mean, "an act of God" is even included
But yeah, I've cherry picked a few that will probably "stretch" to legally allow them to request you leave after you've audibly... refused to leave. Trust me, T&C are very meticulously governed and written in order to allow private companies to do just about anything, especially in situations where you are getting compensation and either refunded or given another flight.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
No just no. Force Majeure is for things like earthquakes, natural hazards that can't be controlled by humans, like say a sinkhole swallowed the plane while it was on the tarmac. That's why it's called "an act of God". It's not there for you to apply to anything and everything. None of what you posted would apply. First of all this was completely under the control of UA. They could have simply not flew their employee on this particular flight.
What happened here was an "act of humans".
The only thing the airline has done wrong here is to not have implemented a proper system of throwing paying passengers off a flight with minimum disruption to other travelers.
They really need to invest in special 'James Bond villain' style seats that can eject certain passengers in to the hold, and pop up an empty seat in to its place.
If that's too expensive maybe they can have the cabin crew equipped with tasers, picking off a few people from the back rows while the First Officer distracts everyone with Scooby-Doo impressions over the intercom.
They really need to invest in special 'James Bond villain' style seats that can eject certain passengers in to the hold, and pop up an empty seat in to its place.
If that's too expensive maybe they can have the cabin crew equipped with tasers, picking off a few people from the back rows while the First Officer distracts everyone with Scooby-Doo impressions over the intercom.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Jesus i would've volunteered if I could just take a couple rides down that inflatable slide.
But you're right they should've just kept upping the ante.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
The Guardian said:
Yo, that's some straight up bullshit right there. Literally treating people like second-class citizens because they didn't pay for a pricier seat or fly often with United.
Nostremitus
Member
You know, it seems like every time I've been on a United or American Airlines flight they've been overbooked.
They went Shark Tank and said I'm Out. And You're Out too. Personally, if I didn't have work the next day, I'd take a nice hotel suite and some vouchers and a free dinner.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Nope. They can't kick you off over anything. You do actually have rights. Read your own links. This is not covered in them
Edit: It's clear the passenger did none of those things. Did you even read what you posted? What are you saying the passenger did in your quote?
Jag
Member
I see that too, but I doubt Reddit has much influence. If they did, Sanders would be President.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The Asian airlines do seem to be pretty good. I've had good experiences every time. One positive of the American airlines companies that I can think of off the top of my head is that you won't get fired for being a flight attendant for being old, male, or unattractive. But that's from a workers point of view, not a customer.
yep, everytime i fly to FL, its 2h and i get on spirit. A-B. only had one 6h delay out of all the times i have flew with them, but due to what seems a price hike in airfare, im switching back to delta.
2Smashed4U
Banned
TIL there's an /r/unitedairlines
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked