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[Very Berry Sunday]

United news might be pushed aside for the recent San Bernadino shooting

 

[TimeLike]

If you volontary forfeit your seat for compensation, you per definition renegociate your contract with the agreement of both parties.
So yes Of Course the issue is that this person DIDN'T agree to it, which means that by forcibly removing him, the airline unilaterally changed the contract; which in case you don't know, they don't have any right to do.

What contract is this? The contract of carriage you buy into when you get a ticket says they agree to get you from point A to point B. That's it. There's nothing about when or how. They could put you on a bus with a $5 McDonald's gift card and it'd be perfectly within the airline's rights.

 

[Audioboxer]

If you volontary forfeit your seat for compensation, you per definition renegociate your contract with the agreement of both parties.
So yes Of Course the issue is that this person DIDN'T agree to it, which means that by forcibly removing him, the airline unilaterally changed the contract; which in case you don't know, they don't have any right to do.

Do you accept involuntary bumping can be done at the gate?

Keep in mind I've already given my thoughts about 50x now how I think an airline should handle involuntary ~ Keep asking until the whole plane has been randomly selected.

Yes, that's clearly written into the contract.

If you don't think it's covered at all in the Cabin then how can voluntary bumping be accepted as part of the contract? It's just a verbal "gentleman's agreement" that you're accepting money the airline has no contractual basis to offer you in the cabin?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Do you accept involuntary bumping can be done at the gate?

Yes, that's explicitly written into the contract.

 

[cchum]

I was a Delta gate agent for a few years and this is the worst situation. I'd take ice storms and computer system shutdowns over having to invol someone especially someone already in their seat but it happens. Totally legit and legal. The only times people got super nasty with me was when no one volunteered and I had to bump someone. Even during the worst cancellations people only reached a certain level of anger. Bumping someone took it to another level though.

Deadheading crew are must-flys no matter what.
I used to go on a fully boarded plane, get on the microphone and beg people to volunteer. Usually worked. Usually.

lol was this you:
"Rules set down by the U.S. Department of Transportation allow for airline customers to receive up to $1300 if they voluntarily give up their seats, but the world's largest airline has been bumping people off their flights by force.
The DOT has now publicly reprimanded the airline for the second time in four years, and ordered the company to pay a penalty of $750,000 for not compensating passengers.
"

Do you accept involuntary bumping can be done at the gate?

Keep in mind I've already given my thoughts about 50x now how I think an airline should handle involuntary ~ Keep asking until the whole plane has been randomly selected.

Apparently they can't.

Read more: http://www.*****************/news/a...fine-buy-iPads-train-staff.html#ixzz4dse9Rr3d
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[dark_chris]

Man, this is heartbreaking and horrific. I hope he does sue the daylights outta them. My god.
And seriously, look at the pics - fuck the people who defend the airlines

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

.

How fucking edgy. I don't even get it. Is it because he's Asian?

 

[gohepcat]

Getting your head smashed against the headrest will that to you. Or so I've been told.

He's a doctor and an old man so getting hit like that will do that to you.

And understatement of the year.

Why would him being a doctor preclude him from being mentally ill? and why would that be a bad thing?

He seems to be acting child-like no?

I can understand him being dazed, but his entire reaction to the situation from beginning to end is really odd. Regardless of the behaviour of the security.

 

[kyle-777-]

So is it a breach of contract to ask for people to voluntarily leave? If that is the case what about anyone who has accepted compensation to leave the cabin? Are they able to now counter-sue for a breach of contract? If your response is they... volunteered, then okay, is it just involuntary bumping that isn't allowed?

People get downgraded in cabins, people have to move seats, and sometimes people will leave a cabin after boarding it. Usually law states in cases where things like this happen compensation is mandatory, and that is often what is sowed into cabin T&C/ticket contracts if we're talking legalities.



Not instantly invalidated, just try debating with me without implying I'm stupid.

Once again, you should read before posting. The problem is that not even you read what you were going to post, because it is explicit that it is before boarding. And even worse is that you keep hammering on the same argument, which is flawed (you would know that if you read), I can call you stupid because I have that written down in my ToS.

Regarding the volunteer thing, I can be a volunteer for anything, probably even for leaving the plane after boarding it is kind a favor, but no one is obligated to do a favor or be a volunteer that is the meaning of volunteer doing something without expecting anything in exchange. If the company can prove that they were willing to leave the plane they can't sue the company for that, better, they can but they will lose.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

What's even the joke here? This is stupid.

 

[Jag]

Deadheading crew are must-flys no matter what.

I didn't know that. Was that the situation with United or was it just some corporate staffers?

 

[TimeLike]

I didn't know that. Was that the situation with United or was it just some corporate staffers?

I don't know but if they went through all this trouble, then it was a pilot or flight attendant who had to be in Louisville in order not to cancel a different flight and inconvenience all those people.

 

[jstripes]

I was a Delta gate agent for a few years and this is the worst situation. I'd take ice storms and computer system shutdowns over having to invol someone especially someone already in their seat but it happens. Totally legit and legal. The only times people got super nasty with me was when no one volunteered and I had to bump someone. Even during the worst cancellations people only reached a certain level of anger. Bumping someone took it to another level though.

Deadheading crew are must-flys no matter what.
I used to go on a fully boarded plane, get on the microphone and beg people to volunteer. Usually worked. Usually.

You can't control the weather, and computer systems are known to go down, so there would be some level of acceptance with those. You have complete control over your booking practices, however, and THAT is why people get rightfully upset.

 

[giga]

No better than Spain's national basketball team photo for Beijing.

 

[sphinx]

Deadheading crew are must-flys no matter what.
I used to go on a fully boarded plane, get on the microphone and beg people to volunteer. Usually worked. Usually.

why would people be allowed to board in the first place??

 

[Kilrogg]

To someone who doesn't know anything about Persona, can you explain the joke? I'll trust your reactions and assume it's tasteless, but I'm curious nonetheless.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Audioboxer here maybe you can read this where a law professor is explaining the exact same thing we are trying to explain to you. Since you won't believe an attorney, maybe you'd be believe a law professor more?

http://www.philstockworld.com/2017/...ting-passenger-from-seat-not-denied-boarding/

"Although the airline is claiming that it has a right to eject ticketed passengers who have already boarded and seated under a " denied boarding " federal regulation [14 CFR 250.5] which provides that it ”shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight," that provision is not applicable here, says public interest law professor John Banzhaf.

”Denied boarding" means exactly that, argues Banzhaf – a passenger may be prevented from boarding an over-booked flight providing the compensation required by law is offered. But this passenger was clearly not " denied boarding ," since he had already been permitted to board, and to take his seat.

Having boarded and been seated, a passenger is generally entitled to keep a seat and remain on the flight, except in rare instances: e.g., a legitimate concern about terrorism, unruly or drunken behavior by the passenger, it is suddenly discovered that he is ill, is using a forged or stolen ticket, etc. Here, none of these rare exceptions applied, so the carrier had no right to eject him once he had validly boarded, says Banzhaf."

Again this is why the airline and police department are trying to create this narrative that this man had been screaming and disruptive long before they had arrived. Because that is one of the situations where they would be allowed to remove a passenger who had already boarded.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Why would him being a doctor preclude him from being mentally ill? and why would that be a bad thing?

He seems to be acting child-like no?

I can understand him being dazed, but his entire reaction to the situation from beginning to end is really odd. Regardless of the behaviour of the security.

No? You're saying he is mentally ill but I see no evidence of that. Where is your proof?

Do you have no idea what 'Shock' or a 'Concussion' is or what it will do to you? Because this looks like that. People can respond in different ways to trauma. And for your information, others are reporting that he was lucid before and pulling out his phone to call his lawyer before the security officers grabbed him.

 

[TimeLike]

why would people be allowed to board in the first place??

Oftentimes the begging for volunteers process keeps going on even while the plane is boarding. While my gate partner continues asking for volunteers on the overhead microphone, I'd ask every person when I scanned their boarding pass, "$400. Next flight in two hours. Sure you can't do it?" If every single person says no, then you gotta bump someone. It's the absolute last and worst thing we did.

 

[Jag]

Oftentimes the begging for volunteers process keeps going on even while the plane is boarding. While my gate partner continues asking for volunteers on the overhead microphone, I'd ask every person when I scanned their boarding pass, "$400. Next flight in two hours. Sure you can't do it?" If every single person says no, then you gotta bump someone. It's the absolute last and worst thing we did.

Did you have a max offer or were you limited to $400 then a bump?

 

[Audioboxer]

Once again, you should read before posting. The problem is that not even you read what you were going to post, because it is explicit that it is before boarding. And even worse is that you keep hammering on the same argument, which is flawed (you would know that if you read), I can call you stupid because I have that written down in my ToS.

Regarding the volunteer thing, I can be a volunteer for anything, probably even for leaving the plane after boarding it is kind a favor, but no one is obligated to do a favor or be a volunteer that is the meaning of volunteer doing something without expecting anything in exchange. If the company can prove that they were willing to leave the plane they can't sue the company for that, better, they can but they will lose.

What about randomly selecting people until someone says yes? Even although legally they are compensated within the "involuntary bumping" bracket, because yes, $800 compensation is for "involuntary" per government flight regulations. Because they say yes does that then mean they are volunteering?

You get paid the higher price when it's involuntary (that is legally mandated by law), so what exactly are the two people who left prior to this man? Are they volunteers, are they involuntarily bumped, or are they now able to go after legal action for a breach of contract? To me, even although they agreed, they were involuntarily bumped (no one took the lower offer by choice, everyone waited till random selection started). My belief is the airline is able to ask for both volunteers, and then involuntarily select people at random even in the cabin.

Audioboxer here maybe you can read this where a law professor is explaining the exact same thing we are trying to explain to you. Since you won't believe an attorney, maybe you'd be believe a law professor more?

http://www.philstockworld.com/2017/...ting-passenger-from-seat-not-denied-boarding/

Again this is why the airline and police department are trying to create this narrative that this man had been screaming and disruptive long before they had arrived. Because that is one of the situations where they would be allowed to remove a passenger who had already boarded.

My argument has never been that they're able to forcibly eject someone (even although they can, and for the reason you alluded to). It has been around bumping being able to be asked for in the cabin, legally and as per T&C.

I don't think anyone should be getting dragged down an aisle and I've said that multiple times.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

To someone who doesn't know anything about Persona, can you explain the joke? I'll trust your reactions and assume it's tasteless, but I'm curious nonetheless.

The photoshopped part is the interface and latest battle menu from the newest entry in the series, Persona 5. You really only battle demons with this menu, so I also don't know what this is implying. It might be because the main protagonist is considered a 'Punk' and is getting beat up by cops as shown in the trailers? And because he's Asian? I don't really know.

Edit: To be clear I'm not saying I'm offended or saying the poster should be banned or anything. Just don't know what this edgy meme is supposed to be.

 

[Starviper]

To someone who doesn't know anything about Persona, can you explain the joke? I'll trust your reactions and assume it's tasteless, but I'm curious nonetheless.

Super tasteless, but the joke would be that in the game your characters essentially hurt themselves to attack. Regardless that has nothing to do with the photo they threw the battle screen on. 0/10 not at all funny.

For what its worth I thought the 'Flight Club' image posted around on Twitter was kinda hilarious.

 

[e_i]

This is 'murica, where we solve everything with violence.

 

[Simon Belmont]

My argument has never been that they're able to forcibly eject someone (even although they can, and for the reason you alluded to). It has been around bumping being able to be asked for in the cabin, legally and as per T&C.

I don't think anyone should be getting dragged down an aisle and I've said that multiple times.

I guess we can add the article you were replying to to the list of things you haven't read.

 

[Jisgsaw]

What contract is this? The contract of carriage you buy into when you get a ticket says they agree to get you from point A to point B. That's it. There's nothing about when or how. They could put you on a bus with a $5 McDonald's gift card and it'd be perfectly within the airline's rights.

Euhm I'm no legal expert, but most tos refer to the plane ticket as part of the contract; the plane ticket refers to a start point, a start date and a start time, as well as and end point, date, time AND a flight number.
From the easyJet Tos:
"Validity

A Booking is only valid for the Passenger(s) named and the Flight for which the reservation was originally made, or as subsequently changed, and accepted by Us in accordance with Article 4 (Bookings)."

 

[Arttemis]

Audioboxer here maybe you can read this where a law professor is explaining the exact same thing we are trying to explain to you. Since you won't believe an attorney, maybe you'd be believe a law professor more?

http://www.philstockworld.com/2017/...ting-passenger-from-seat-not-denied-boarding/

"Although the airline is claiming that it has a right to eject ticketed passengers who have already boarded and seated under a ” denied boarding ” federal regulation [14 CFR 250.5] which provides that it “shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight,” that provision is not applicable here, says public interest law professor John Banzhaf.

“Denied boarding” means exactly that, argues Banzhaf – a passenger may be prevented from boarding an over-booked flight providing the compensation required by law is offered. But this passenger was clearly not ” denied boarding ,” since he had already been permitted to board, and to take his seat.

Having boarded and been seated, a passenger is generally entitled to keep a seat and remain on the flight, except in rare instances: e.g., a legitimate concern about terrorism, unruly or drunken behavior by the passenger, it is suddenly discovered that he is ill, is using a forged or stolen ticket, etc. Here, none of these rare exceptions applied, so the carrier had no right to eject him once he had validly boarded, says Banzhaf."

Again this is why the airline and police department are trying to create this narrative that this man had been screaming and disruptive long before they had arrived. Because that is one of the situations where they would be allowed to remove a passenger who had already boarded.

And there it is .gif

 

[BronsonLee]

To someone who doesn't know anything about Persona, can you explain the joke? I'll trust your reactions and assume it's tasteless, but I'm curious nonetheless.

I am the foremost Persona expert on www.neogaf.com and I am happy to tell you

that it makes no fucking sense

 

[TimeLike]

Did you have a max offer or were you limited to $400 then a bump?

The amounts are calculated by length of delay and whether the person volunteered or was bumped. Volunteers were only eligible for coupons on their next booking. People who were bumped could choose that or cash. I don't know if the amounts are regulated by the government or if each airline sets their own.

 

[sphinx]

Oftentimes the begging for volunteers process keeps going on even while the plane is boarding. While my gate partner continues asking for volunteers on the overhead microphone, I'd ask every person when I scanned their boarding pass, "$400. Next flight in two hours. Sure you can't do it?" If every single person says no, then you gotta bump someone. It's the absolute last and worst thing we did.

sorry, not be be offensive but that's very stupid. You can't have people board and then kick them out.

what I'd do is: before boarding, at the desk at the gate, someone from the crew has to say "we aren't boarding until we find volunteers, we'll wait 5 minutes, after that we will pic someone randomly, we are sorry for any inconvenience".

case closed.

 

[flkraven]

I mean, if I buy a product and am sitting in my car with it in the parking lot, do I even own it yet? Probably not.

 

[Kilrogg]

The photoshopped part is the interface and latest battle menu from the newest entry in the series, Persona 5. You really only battle demons with this menu, so I also don't know what this is implying. It might be because the main protagonist is considered a 'Punk' and is getting beat up by cops as shown in the trailers? And because he's Asian? I don't really know.

Super tasteless, but the joke would be that in the game your characters essentially hurt themselves to attack. Regardless that has nothing to do with the photo they threw the battle screen on. 0/10 not at all funny.

For what its worth I thought the 'Flight Club' image posted around on Twitter was kinda hilarious.

I am the foremost Persona expert on www.neogaf.com and I am happy to tell you

that it makes no fucking sense

Lol, okay, so it's not even tasteless, it just doesn't make a lick of sense. Gotcha. Thank you, guys!

 

[Cat Party]

The legality of kicking a person off a plane is completely beside the point. The use of force in this circumstance was disgusting and inhuman whether or not the airline had the right to force him to give up his seat.

It also doesn't matter if he is really a doctor or whatever other distraction people will throw up. No person should be treated this way.

 

[Vilam]

Absolutely fucking disgusting.

"one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily"

Yeah no, fuck you. None of them chose to leave the aircraft voluntarily. Their "apology" and their statements are trashy PR bullshit that just makes them look even worse. Act like human beings, jesus christ. A paying customer getting assaulted to make room for their own employees... just unbelievable.

 

[Google]

The photoshopped part is the interface and latest battle menu from the newest entry in the series, Persona 5. You really only battle demons with this menu, so I also don't know what this is implying. It might be because the main protagonist is considered a 'Punk' and is getting beat up by cops as shown in the trailers? And because he's Asian? I don't really know.

The joke is pretty simple to get.

In Persona 5, when you battle the enemies you can knock them over. When this happens you have the option to attack the downed enemies with all of your party members (and it often leads to you winning the battle).

 

[Audioboxer]

I guess we can add the article you were replying to to the list of things you haven't read.

Once again, I am not disputing the man's claim to stay in his seat. I am suggesting the airline can voluntarily ask and then move onto selecting at random, in the cabin, without being taken to court for that action alone (I keep getting told that is a breach of contract in on itself). When someone says no, even when picked at random, my suggestion to the airline was they should move on, not call security.

People do not get the $800 tier compensation bracket putting their names forward. That lifehacker article I've linked twice now explicitly states you should take your chances and wait for involuntary bumping for more money if you're not that bothered about cashing out at $200~400.

What if the plane is in the sky? At that point can they pick random names, turn the plane around and drop them off? Or do they just stop at the nearest airport.

What? An overbooked plane cannot take off.

 

[flkraven]

Once again, I am not disputing the man's claim to stay in his seat. I am suggesting the airline can voluntarily ask and then move onto selecting at random, in the cabin, without being taken to court for that action alone (I keep getting told that is a breach of contract in on itself). When someone says no, even when picked at random, my suggestion to the airline was they should move on, not call security.

People do not get the $800 tier compensation bracket putting their names forward. That lifehacker article I've linked twice now explicitly states you should take your chances and wait for involuntary bumping for more money if you're not that bothered about cashing out at $200~400.

What if the plane is in the sky? At that point can they pick random names, turn the plane around and drop them off? Or do they just stop at the nearest airport.

 

[Suzushiiro]

The photoshopped part is the interface and latest battle menu from the newest entry in the series, Persona 5. You really only battle demons with this menu, so I also don't know what this is implying. It might be because the main protagonist is considered a 'Punk' and is getting beat up by cops as shown in the trailers? And because he's Asian? I don't really know.

Yeah, the meme is to shop it over a picture of someone fighting, or at least holding a weapon/in a fighting stance. Doesn't really work when it's just someone getting beaten up. Guess some people just don't quite understand the meme?

 

[BronsonLee]

Yeah, the meme is to shop it over a picture of someone fighting, or at least holding a weapon/in a fighting stance. Doesn't really work when it's just someone getting beaten up. Guess some people just don't quite understand the meme?

Leave it to nerds to not understand Persona

 

[TimeLike]

sorry, not be be offensive but that's very stupid. You can't have people board and then kick them out.

what I'd do is: before boarding, at the desk at the gate, someone from the crew has to say "we aren't boarding until we find volunteers, we'll wait 5 minutes, after that we will pic someone randomly, we are sorry for any inconvenience".

case closed.

That's a good idea! You have to understand that it was extraordinarily rare to get to the point of bumping someone. You just board your flight like normal, get your volunteer(s) and shut the door. The passengers never know.

I worked at a major Delta hub for three and a half years so I saw a ton of flights and I honestly only remember ever invol-ing someone maybe threeish times.

 

[Meier]

The joke is pretty simple to get.

In Persona 5, when you battle the enemies you can knock them over. When this happens you have the option to attack the downed enemies with all of your party members (and it often leads to you winning the battle).

But it's an entirely different menu in that case so no, that doesn't really apply. The joke makes no sense but obviously was tasteless either way.

 

[flkraven]

What? An overbooked plane cannot take off.

It wasn't an over booking issue*. Employees needed seats, so they kicked off 4 people. At what point should people feel secure with their plane ticket purchase? I thought it was after they actually let you on the plane, took your luggage, and lead you to your seat but you are arguing that. So since they can take me out of my seat whenever they want to and kick me off, am I safe once the wheels get off the ground? Or in the air can they swing by a different airport and swap me out?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

My argument has never been that they're able to forcibly eject someone (even although they can, and for the reason you alluded to). It has been around bumping being able to be asked for in the cabin, legally and as per T&C.

I don't think anyone should be getting dragged down an aisle and I've said that multiple times.

I'm not saying you've argued that you can forcibly eject someone. You've argued that they can deny boarding when a passenger has already boarded.

I'm saying that they do not have that legal right to do so.


On a separate matter, now that it's confirmed the guy is 69, I'd probably tack on Elder Abuse as a claim as the airline obviously has some sort of duty of care to its passengers.

 

[kyle-777-]

Once again, I am not disputing the man's claim to stay in his seat. I am suggesting the airline can voluntarily ask and then move onto selecting at random, in the cabin, without being taken to court for that action alone (I keep getting told that is a breach of contract in on itself). When someone says no, even when picked at random, my suggestion to the airline was they should move on, not call security.

People do not get the $800 tier compensation bracket putting their names forward. That lifehacker article I've linked twice now explicitly states you should take your chances and wait for involuntary bumping for more money if you're not that bothered about cashing out at $200~400.



What? An overbooked plane cannot take off.

I am just tired so probably my last post here, from what I've read, first they were offered $400 and then the company raised to $800. However I am not sure. But that is not the point, nothing justifies what was done to him, so what is the point in trying to find a breach in the company terms? I even told you that what is written in a company terms should be taken with a grain of salt, because not everything is valid and beating someone for not wanting to leave his sit, that he paid for, obviously is not valid, unless you are sadic.

 

[MikeHattsu]

What if the plane is in the sky? At that point can they pick random names, turn the plane around and drop them off? Or do they just stop at the nearest airport.

Weirdly enough, this has actually sort-of happened:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/10/11/national/qr-code-snafu-places-many-passengers-ana-plane/

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Yeah, the meme is to shop it over a picture of someone fighting, or at least holding a weapon/in a fighting stance. Doesn't really work when it's just someone getting beaten up. Guess some people just don't quite understand the meme?

Guess not.

The joke is pretty simple to get.

In Persona 5, when you battle the enemies you can knock them over. When this happens you have the option to attack the downed enemies with all of your party members (and it often leads to you winning the battle).

But the man in question has the battle interface over him? Whatever. Off-topic enough.

 

[Audioboxer]

It wasn't over booked. Employees needed seats, so they kicked off 4 people. At what point should people feel secure with their plane ticket purchase? I thought it was after they actually let you on the plane, took your luggage, and lead you to your seat but you are arguing that. So since they can take me out of my seat whenever they want to and kick me off, am I safe once the wheels get off the ground? Or in the air can they swing by a different airport and swap me out?

If everyone has a seat the only way that's happening is if you do something in the cabin to bring the plane down and have you escorted off.

I'm not saying you've argued that you can forcibly eject someone. You've argued that they can deny boarding when a passenger has already boarded.

I'm saying that they do not have that legal right to do so.


On a separate matter, now that it's confirmed the guy is 69, I'd probably tack on Elder Abuse as a claim as the airline obviously has some sort of duty of care to its passengers.

My argument is they can ask for what they can ask pre-boarding. Voluntary and involuntary bumping. In the cabin.

Someone with knowledge of an airport, once they do involuntary at the gate, do you have to accept or can you say no and they move onto the next random selection?

I am just tired so probably my last post here, from what I've read, first they were offered $400 and then the company raised to $800. However I am not sure. But that is not the point, nothing justifies what was done to him, so what is the point in trying to find a breach in the company terms? I even told you that what is written in a company terms should be taken with a grain of salt, because not everything is valid and beating someone for not wanting to leave his sit, that he paid for, obviously is not valid, unless you are sadic.

Never said otherwise, and have been critical of the airline since post 1 in here. None of this should ever have happened. As for why the rest of the debate has carried on, it happens when people begin to discuss legalities and wider spread implications of airlines being able to do things like this. Not just by force, but the debate we've been tied up in is voluntary/involuntary bumping in the cabin. Not so much just to do with this guy, but what an airline can ask of anyone in a cabin.

 

[Hylian7]

Dude, really not funny. There's a time and a place and this is neither for that meme.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

I don't have access to my office's lexisnexis account right now, but from just online searches I can't seem to find any cases that deal with removing a passenger based on overbooking once they have actually boarded.

This may be a case of first impression if it is brought to court (which I doubt it will be).

You can however find cases where people have suspected that their removal (removal NOT denied boarding) was due to overbooking, but the airlines almost always uses the disruptive, offensive, violent behavior excuse for the removal. Like this one:

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/11/03/7-passengers-kicked-off-spirit-airlines-flight-claim-discrimination-what-would-you-do/

The fact that they never just straight out use their right to deny boarding, once a passenger is actually boarded on the plane tells me that they don't even believe they have this right per the contract. Because that would be a far easier cause to use than claiming someone is being disruptive.

 

[flkraven]

If everyone has a seat the only way that's happening is if you do something in the cabin to bring the plane down and have you escorted off.



My argument is they can ask for what they can ask pre-boarding. Voluntary and involuntary bumping. In the cabin.

Someone with knowledge of an airport, once they do involuntary at the gate, do you have to accept or can you say no and they move onto the next random selection?

So what is the literal point where they can stop asking for volunteers to leave?