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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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joliefaire
Neo Member
You're right, I didn't even notice that--no
Ramsay
bodyofanamerican
Member
No please God not him. He needs one of the most poetic deaths of all the characters.
bengraven
Member
I...I lost it for a second.
Or Yunkai can democratically be like "hey, we took a vote and fuck you!".
Embedding spoiler tags inside spoiler tags is the kind of thing monsters do.
I honestly don't think the freak-out moment is a death.
Episode 3 is almost definitely when Sansa will be getting to Winterfell. We know that Brienne still has to interact with the Vale party in episode 2, and Littlefinger needs to be back to King's Landing by 5. That pretty much locks in episode 3 for Sansa in Winterfell. The freak out is over the revelation of their Sansa story.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
S'okay bro. It can happen to the best of us!
Basileus777
Member
Well it doesn't even work. The real monsters are those who put links behind spoiler tags. Few things are more infuriating than tapping on a spoiler tag to read it only for a new window to open instead.
Yes! Fucking this! It's really annoying.
The answer to the Battle of Meereen not happening is simple. This is what I think.
[Both speculation and Season 5 spoilers behind spoiler tags]
However, here's where I think it will all branch off. Dany will not fly to the Dothraki Sea and paint it brown. The Dothraki arc in the show is over, and Mago's death is irrelevant, despite GRRM's constant whinging. We saw how quickly Stannis' army issues were resolved in Season 4 - with a wave of the hand he suddenly had the Golden Company in his employ. There's no reason something similar can't occur on Dany's side of the world to get things where they need to be.
[Both speculation and Season 5 spoilers behind spoiler tags]
The whole Meereenese knot will be streamlined this season, and Dany will be over in Westeros relatively soon. The Yunkai stuff will be dealt with early and will not become a later issue. Barristan's only real role going forward is his coordination of the siege, so he'll get axed early. Possibly Grey Worm too. There will be a big confrontation in Daznak's Pit between Dany and co. and the Sons of the Harpy. Drogon will appear, wacky hijinks will occur, and Dany will mount him.
However, here's where I think it will all branch off. Dany will not fly to the Dothraki Sea and paint it brown. The Dothraki arc in the show is over, and Mago's death is irrelevant, despite GRRM's constant whinging. We saw how quickly Stannis' army issues were resolved in Season 4 - with a wave of the hand he suddenly had the Golden Company in his employ. There's no reason something similar can't occur on Dany's side of the world to get things where they need to be.
Varys has openly declared his loyalty to Daenerys, and Tyrion is by her side by the end of the season. Aegon doesn't exist, and by extension Aegon's invasion of Westeros doesn't exist. That leaves one Targaryen who'll be invading Westeros in Season 6. Everything should already be in place by the Season 5 finale.
Basileus777
Member
They've already done a bit of this with Dany, they gave her a fleet last season as a way to write out any need for the Ironborn. I'm certain we'll see more of that.
Exactly. That would have been a much better example to use than Stannis, actually.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Watching Season 4 again, Episode 2. Still confused when exactly did the cup get poisoned.
Anything that points to what is shown during the episode to when it happened?
Anything that points to what is shown during the episode to when it happened?
cartoon_soldier
Member
They discussed Stannis getting the Golden Company, he doesn't officially have them yet right?
Yeah, I think she torches Meereen right after the Pit and sets out for Westeros. That puts you at the same place a way more morally ambiguous Dany setting out to conquer in fewer episodes. The Battle of Meereen would've been hard to film, too. Naval elements, plus you would really be in the thick of cavalry action with Barristan in a way they've never done before, dragons, they'd probably have to build a real trebuchet, it'd have been crazy on the budget.
Plus, Dany turning West now would neatly pair with the revelation that she has an ally in Dorne, and that Varys is working covertly for her in King's Landing. All of that happening at once would be bound toget people excited for season 6.
Plus, Dany turning West now would neatly pair with the revelation that she has an ally in Dorne, and that Varys is working covertly for her in King's Landing. All of that happening at once would be bound toget people excited for season 6.
It's not clear. I'm leaning towards he has them, just because the maps Stannis is looking over in the trailer imply that his mercenary force is larger than his regular troops, but I'm not sure. He mentioned them, and he definitely hired someone. The bank only gave him a small loan though, enough to keep him in the game, but not enough that he could overthrow the Lannisters quite yet. They're still backing the Lannisters, but want Stannis around as a threat in case the Lannisters stop paying.
Lord Couture
Member
From a Brian Cogman interview after the episode where Stannis goes to the Iron Bank, I don't think even the writing team knew whether Stannis has the Golden Company or not back when they wrote season 4.
Speaking of...
I was listening to Brian Cogman's episode 10 commentary track with Rory McCann and Gwendolyn Christie, and I pretty much became awash with disappointment. When they got to the scene where Jaime helps Tyrion escape and they part on good terms, his 'insightful' commentary addressed the change as something along the lines as (and I'm just paraphrasing, don't remember the exact words) "This show is always mean and cruel and we just wanted to have something loving happen."
What the fuck. It came of like he just wants to change shit just for the sake of changing shit. Felt like a jokey "...reasons, brah. Reasons."
Sigh...
Steelyuhas
Member
I thought Cogman clarified that the implication was they gave Stannis a small loan with a kind of see what you can do with that and we'll talk about a larger one later (hedging their bets due to Davos' point about Twyin being old and no one reliable to take control in Kings Landing once he's gone).
BobTheFork
Member
Honestly, I took that to mean they don't ever expect the brothers to meet again in the show and they didn't want Tyrion to 'lose' the only person who had cared about him.
I don't agree with it but I think they just wanted to move away from the story point of Tyrion's wife.
Sounds like something a godless man would do.
D&D will probably end up giving Euron's quotes to Dany and butchering them. "Wheel? I AM the wheel my lord, the first wheel and the last. And I'm going to break that wheel."
Right. I think Stannis is sort of an insurance policy against the possibility of Tywin's heirs being unfit to them. It's just not clear if that means he hired the Golden Company or not.
And Cogman's explanation of the Jaime/Tyrion scene is still stronger than their explanation of Talisa, which was literally just "Eh, we wanted to change it." At least here it's predicated on happiness!
Really, it bothers me less that they left out the Tysha stuff than that they left out Jaime convincing Varys to do it. If they wanted to stress the Jaime-Tyrion relationship, then that's a fantastic scene to do it.
The most feasible place is when the big pie comes, after Joffrey humiliates Tyrion. Marge takes the cup from him and puts it down near her grandmother, Olenna. Then everyone's attention is drawn to Joffrey splitting the pie open with his sword and doves flying out. There's even a pretty blatant shot of Olenna with Tyrion grabbing the cup in the foreground right after this:
The whole thing is at around 3:54 in this video.
WadiumArcadium
Member
The only change from the books that has actually pissed me off has been leaving the Tysha stuff out of Tywin's death. I just can't understand why they didn't include it.
Right, it makes absolutely no sense. Instead of Tyrion droning on about beetles in one of the most pointless scenes on the show, he could have reminded the viewers about Tysha. It would have made sense to talk about such a traumatic event before he thought he was about to die.
Tysha and Shae's roles were reversed.
How? Shae ended exactly the same. It was a betrayal on her part, not Tywins malice or Tyrions blindness and Jaimes lies.
It was done out of survival, instead of "im just an evil greedy jerk" like in the books.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
That's probably my biggest knock on the show. They so often keep the big moments for characters and the same big events as the books, but the route they take to get to those moments usually don't add up based on the character development we've seen from the show.
Is anyone else irked that we've seen or heard nothing from the Freys since the Red Wedding? I guess it makes sense since they've seemingly chopped most of the Riverlands, Brotherhood and Stonheart material. But it's like the Red Wedding has been forgotten pretty quickly and the Frey's involvement in it basically just lumped on to the Boltons. I wanted some Frey Pies and Manderly dammit.
It's strange because season one is quite faithful to the source material, and thus references a lot of small things that wouldn't have significance until much later. Tysha being one of them. Also, Tyrion references "your uncles" when talking to Theon, yet those guys will probably never been seen or even mentioned again. Starting in season two they became much more liberal with the changes and don't really feel beholden to putting in every single bit of info from the books. It just feels odd on rewatches that some plot points kind of go nowhere.
Also do you think they'll bring back Quaithe? She should be appearing at this point in the story, but I don't think her actress has been recast. She is quite an interesting and hotly debated character, but they may be done with her in the show. She doesn't even talk to Dany in season two.
Basileus777
Member
Shae actually comes off worse in the show because she had an actual relationship with Tyrion. You couldn't even call what Book Shae does a betrayal because Tyrion was just a client of hers, and it makes the murder of Shae a real heinous act.
I'm hoping Brienne will start hearing things about them this season, and maybe even though there doesn't seem to be a Frey army at Winterfell, they'll have Fat Walda serve as a sort of connection to the Freys. I think the actor who played Walder was pretty clear that he'll be back eventually though to follow up on the Frey plot.
No way Quaithe comes back. I'm kind of amazed she made the cut for season 2 in the first place. And the Greyjoy uncle stuff I don't think is that weird. They were talking about the Greyjoys rebellion, and that Theon had family who fought in it. I don't think that necessitates those uncles being future characters. For all we know they died during the rebellion. I think that only feels weird as a book reader, knowing that they're supposed to be coming.
Tyrion betrayed her first by having Bronn force her onto a ship.
They seem to be doing a number of scenes to remind you that Drogon is out there. Trailer shows Tyrion seeing him at the Sorrows, and the scene where Dany sees him on Meereen's walls. I think they could just be doing a scene where someone finds one of his hunting grounds.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Guess D + D didn't want to make Tyrion look bad.
joliefaire
Neo Member
Here's some interesting input, if a bit... puzzling? Sophie Turner (Sansa) in an new interview piece with Interview Mag, Germany. The links are the original interview and photos, the interview in German. The second link is a Tumblr translation into English.
SPOILERS, probably, since Sophie discusses what she believes Sansa's arc will be, going forward.
http://fapp.to/sophie-turner-interview-mag-germany-april-2015/
http://ohsophieturner.tumblr.com/post/114127788195/sophies-interview-interview-germany-translated
SPOILERS, probably, since Sophie discusses what she believes Sansa's arc will be, going forward.
http://fapp.to/sophie-turner-interview-mag-germany-april-2015/
http://ohsophieturner.tumblr.com/post/114127788195/sophies-interview-interview-germany-translated
cartoon_soldier
Member
Ep1 spoilers are out
We now know who the unexpected death is
We now know who the unexpected death is
Mance burned on cross
That totally never happened in the book.
Oh wait, it did. Though except this time maybe it's FOR REALS.
Oh wait, it did. Though except this time maybe it's FOR REALS.
cartoon_soldier
Member
It is. And if Mance actor had read the books he would be expecting a bigger role this season
badcrumble
Member
The most interesting part of that interview is that she says
Sansa's arc reaches its climax in Season 5
God, the way interviewers always ask actresses about nudity is super creepy. How do you ask a 19 year old girl if you're going to see her topless and not come away feeling like a total sleezeball?
The comments about her arc reaching a climax are interesting, and lends credence to the idea that the Winterfell plot is going to be entirely contained in this season. A Bolton defeat and Sansa either taking Winterfell for herself or being made Lady of Winterfell by Stannis would definitely be a climactic point. The idea that she has no arc after this though might be her reading a bit too much into things.
It's not really unexpected though considering 'Mance' was burnt in the books too, the glamor wasn't obvious until it was revealed later in the book
It was clearly out of spite because shes such an idiot that actually believed he was getting rid of her to bang Sansa. There is very little similarities with Tysha.
He did that for her own safety and explained this to her. The actress who plays Shae explained that Tyrion "betrayed" her by choosing power and position over her and that he should have run away with her if he loved her. At least in the book we get that not only does he send her away for her safety, but he feels she deserves better. It's bad writing.
bengraven
Member
Ohhhhhh my god this is going to be a painful one, isn't it?
Her own safety and for his own comfort. He would continue to be Master of Coin, have servants and live in luxury in Kingslanding. He made no sacrifice for her when she routinely put herself in danger to be with him. It isn't surprising that she would be more than a bit pissed off when Tyrion's personal bodyguard shows up and basically throws her out without even a word from him.
If you look at it from Shae's point of view she is more than justified in her actions.
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