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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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What?!
The reason it's innuendo in the series is because it's fucking taboo has hell in that world, just like real medieval time periods. What do you expect Renly and Loras to openly come out? His portrayal of homosexual characters have been pretty darn good, how can you just say Renly is some stereotype because he dresses well? Do straight people not prefer fine clothes?
badcrumble
Member
It wasn't at all taboo in Europe pre-13th century, and it remained acceptable to do as a sort of open secret among the upper classes (like Loras and Renly) for quite a while (note that a lot of the more homophobic hints at Renly/Loras come from people of lower birth whereas a fair amount of the higher-born folks seem to treat it as a mildly embarrassing peccadillo than anything else).
(basically, what changed in the 12th/13th century was that the Black Death killed off a lot of the working class, so laborers and peasants were able to ask for much more money for their wages; the Church, as the primary landowner and employer in Europe, wasn't exactly pleased with that, and so they began instituting policies against abortion, masturbation, homosexuality, et cetera whereas previously those hadn't been seen as a huge deal - the idea was to basically force people to procreate in order to grow the labor pool and drive wages back down).
I thought in one of her pov chapters she thinks/speculated to herself about marg and her handmaidens and she could use that against her if she needed to.
badcrumble
Member
What's gonna be interesting/different on the show is that it's really hard to tell how much of AFFC's Cersei stuff is taking place in her extremely paranoid imagination and how much of it is actually true. On the show, Margaery's actually a character so we'll get a much better sense of her side of things.
biosnake20
Member
So what are we thinking is the last scene of the season? For the watch or dothraki sea?
Steelyuhas
Member
Or perhaps the white raven?
Coin Return
Loose Slot
Pft, everyone knows the last scene will be a zombified Brandon the Shipwright returning from the Sunset Sea with a fleet of ghost ships.
The first part is true, but do you have a citation on the second half?
Gay sex was considered about as sinful as eating too much or cheating on one's spouse well until the early modern period. A sodomite was a man who had had sex with a man, but it wasn't a defining identity. Sexuality was defined by individual acts, not dispositions.
King James of England was probably bisexual, and his courtiers arranged for regular sermons about the dangers of sodomy. These sermons saw sodomy as individual crimes, and King James could stop being a sodomite as soon as he stopped having sex with men.
Most of the anti-abortion rhetoric of the Catholic Church goes back to Thomas Aquinas, a 13th century scholar who died a century before the Black Plague began.
What's the going assumption on the second half of that? There's clearly not gonna be any of that Darkstar doofus and I think I've heard that
Jamie's going to Dorne (or maybe that was at the end of last week, just being safe)
Jamie going to try to kidnap Myrcella away because Cersei family-shamed him into it and Myrcella gets killed instead of just cut?
biosnake20
Member
That would be a great ending too. And next seasons tag line could be "Winter has Arrived/is Here".
badcrumble
Member
It sounds like I'm probably getting some details wrong, heh. But the really big obsession with sex crimes happen around the same time as the medieval witch hunts (which was in large part about shutting down local abortionists). I'm getting this from Silvia Federici's "Caliban and the Witch" - it's about the witch hunts and their ties to the peasant rebellions.
bengraven
Member
Last scene:
Bran wakes up from his coma before the company sets off. It's all been a dream. Tells Ned. He informs Robert. Lannister twins are jailed then executed. Tywin disowns them. Takes grandkids to The Rock. Joff made heir. Replaces Hound with Mountain. Vis marries Arianne and tries to raise Dorne against Seven but people hate him. He never sees Dani again as she making Dothraki babies in the east. Robert marries Margaery and make Mace his Hand after Ned retires. Dies in bed on his wife after having four sons with her. A new tourney at Harrenhal. Rob meets Jeyne, wins tourney. Is knighted and makes Bran his squire. Jon becomes sellsword and bangs redheads. Arya runs away and tries to join his company but gets sent home. Sansa is married off to Sam Tarly. Tyrion gets drunk and mouthes off to Joffrey. He's found the next day in a pile of his own organs - only identified by his huge cloven head.
The Others then arrive and everyone dies... Except Ned.
"Winter came", he sobs as he buries his last child.
Bran wakes up from his coma before the company sets off. It's all been a dream. Tells Ned. He informs Robert. Lannister twins are jailed then executed. Tywin disowns them. Takes grandkids to The Rock. Joff made heir. Replaces Hound with Mountain. Vis marries Arianne and tries to raise Dorne against Seven but people hate him. He never sees Dani again as she making Dothraki babies in the east. Robert marries Margaery and make Mace his Hand after Ned retires. Dies in bed on his wife after having four sons with her. A new tourney at Harrenhal. Rob meets Jeyne, wins tourney. Is knighted and makes Bran his squire. Jon becomes sellsword and bangs redheads. Arya runs away and tries to join his company but gets sent home. Sansa is married off to Sam Tarly. Tyrion gets drunk and mouthes off to Joffrey. He's found the next day in a pile of his own organs - only identified by his huge cloven head.
The Others then arrive and everyone dies... Except Ned.
"Winter came", he sobs as he buries his last child.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
Why do I suddenly want this so bad
Exterminieren
Banned
I'm willing to bet neither.
If I had to make a wild guess, it'd be Danaerys flying towards Westeros on the back of Drogon.
Your post inspired me to make that gif. May it live a long and prosperous life on GAF.
Cornballer
Member
I'm trying to eat here, NeoGiff.
badcrumble
Member
I don't really expect the white raven because the show hasn't done a lot of talking about the way that that signaling works. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see snow start falling somewhere in Westeros, though.
I think it's gonna be Kevan Lannister getting killed by Varys, though.
I don't see how this couldn't still happen this season.
Really? I thought JonCon was much, much more blatant than the Renly/Loras stuff.
I'm leaning For the Watch for last scene. I think it'll be a Red-Wedding-style cut-to-black ending. They'll rearrange things so that Kevan's death and whatever ending they're planning for Meereen will come before it.
Based on what's been in the trailers, I think Loras only has a few episodes for something like that to happen before his plot takes a different turn. It's possible, but they'd really have to cram it in here.
badcrumble
Member
I really don't think they're gonna do the "for the watch" thing as a season closer, guys. We're gonna see Kit Harington filming this summer, it'll be obvious that he's doing so, and it'd totally undermine the entire point of such a thing.
Unless he's going to stay dead for a long time (or actually forever) in the books so they could basically bench him for a whole season.
Just like with Lady Stoneheart, SURPRISE RESURRECTION is a difficult thing for a TV show to pull off between seasons. If and when that moment happens, it'll be toward the beginning of a season so he can come back to life by the end of it.
Unless he's going to stay dead for a long time (or actually forever) in the books so they could basically bench him for a whole season.
Just like with Lady Stoneheart, SURPRISE RESURRECTION is a difficult thing for a TV show to pull off between seasons. If and when that moment happens, it'll be toward the beginning of a season so he can come back to life by the end of it.
Steelyuhas
Member
Let's get user names right k thx
Yeah I dunno, it's just never jumped out at me in that way. Just saw them as good friends and someone he admired greatly.
I thought the same thing, but their continued promises of a Red-Wedding-style event have me thinking it must be in, and their promise of no major spoilers makes it sound like they can't be moving forward to the resurrection. I can't really square those two claims with anything but a cliffhanger. Of course, it's possible they're lying and/or exaggerating, but if I take them at their word I think it has to be at the end of the season.
Maybe they'll be very public with their plans for Kit to film as his corpse, like Charles Dance did? Or maybe Jon stays dead for most of the season and is only resurrected towards the end. There is the whole Bran dream about him growing cold in an ice cell.
Yeah, "for the watch" is not feasible as a season closer. Blatant bait-and-switch like that would not go over well.
About subtext, at least it's gonna interesting what the show is gonna tell us about Margaery this season. It has already confirmed some suspicions, like the aforementioned Loras/Renly affair or Theon losing his penis, but that would be pretty significant for the future events. If they show Margaery really had an affair with anyone (which is already implied in the books) this will be quite interesting.
About subtext, at least it's gonna interesting what the show is gonna tell us about Margaery this season. It has already confirmed some suspicions, like the aforementioned Loras/Renly affair or Theon losing his penis, but that would be pretty significant for the future events. If they show Margaery really had an affair with anyone (which is already implied in the books) this will be quite interesting.
Their promise can't really be taken seriously when we have relatively important characters who aren't dead in the books dying the season.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
The last shot of the season will be the white raven. Preceding that will be the scene of Jon Snow getting stabbed to death, but with the added shot of his eyes turning white, signaling that he's warging into Ghost.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
90% chance.
badcrumble
Member
I'm not really sure Jon's apparent death at the hands of the Night's Watch is particularly similar to the Red Wedding, though. For one thing, NOBODY fucking believes that it's his actual death (and people aren't super emotionally tied to Jon Snow), and as such it has very little impact from either an emotional or a narrative perspective.
It's also just one dude.
The Red Wedding is a big deal because you care about Catelyn, at the very least, and because it has absolutely massive and immediate narrative consequences (it crushes the entire hitherto-very-successful Stark insurgency in an instant).
Was it Jaime that said to Loras something like "I'll shove this sword so far up your ass I'll reach places Renly could only dream of" ?
I thought that was pretty blatant.
badcrumble
Member
I can think of things it would refer to that have not yet happened in the books but that are almost certainly going to happen early in TWOW.
Steelyuhas
Member
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Red Wedding 2: Snowy Boogaloo
Jon Snow (stabbed by his brothers, but wargs into Ghost at the last second)
Sam and Gilly
Brienne and Pod (who have made their way to the Wall after Ramsay closes off Winterfell)
Stannis the Mannis (killed by Ramsay)
I think the reason we've never seen any of the other Stark kids warg before is because they eventually wanted to make it a big reveal. Arya turning into a cat or dreaming about Nymeria isn't super exciting, but having Jon warg just as we think he's being killed would be a huge surprise to people. And the revival of Jon will be bolstered by the fact that they skipped LSH and some of the other revived characters from the books.
Oh for sure, but then they're outright lying about there being minimal spoilers this year if they're going to do any of that.
badcrumble
Member
I haven't seen an interview where they've said that, but if they have, then yeah, I think they're lying.
Obviously most of the season is gonna be covering AFFC/ADWD material, but there's no way we don't get some TWOW material in the last few episodes.
As is usually the case for the series, some storylines will lag behind a little bit, but others will accelerate faster than the books do. I fully expect to see Arya and Sansa go rocketing past their AFFC/ADWD storylines very quickly, for example. There's very little for some characters to do if that doesn't happen.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
You don't think Arya has a season's worth of material left?
I think it was posted a few pages back. They said no "major" spoilers, which I read as them acknowledging the Sansa and Arya situations. I would consider pretty much any Northern content after the end of the book to be "major spoilers", but yeah, they could be totally bullshitting about that.
Edit: Found the link. http://mashable.com/2015/03/24/game-of-thrones-season-5-producers/
I had misremembered the wording. They say that season five viewers are "mostly safe" from spoilers, not that there won't be major ones. I guess that gives them a little more wiggle room to say "yeah, you were mostly safe until the last ten minutes!" but it's definitely at the very least a dishonest comment if they pull something like revealing what happens to Jon or showing the outcome of the Stannis/Bolton battle.
badcrumble
Member
I do not, unless they decide to give her only one three-minute scene every other episode. I think we're at least going to get her released TWOW chapter.
I mean, here's the thing about ADWD - the fact that basically all of the 'climax' chapters got chopped off the end of it gives it phenomenally poor pacing. It makes zero sense for the showrunners to just leave all of the climactic stuff for the beginning of S6 the way that ADWD does with TWOW. Something's got to give, and if any characters die in the beginning of TWOW, there's very little reason (from the perspective of the showrunners *and* from the perspective of the actors) not to kill them at the end of this season instead. Joffrey's wedding was a rare exception to that rule, and one they could only get away with because the Red Wedding happened shortly before it.
edit: as for the Stannis/Bolton battle, the show just doesn't have stuff happen offscreen and only be heard about through rumors and secondhand news and letters because it doesn't use the POV literary device that the books does. Likewise, I don't expect a part of this season where everyone hears about Davos being dead when he actually isn't because there'd be no point. If it happens this season, we'll know who wins (and I think it will, with the siege of Meereen being saved for S6).
They could also invent new material, as they have done so often in the past.
badcrumble
Member
I just really, really doubt that her entire season is going to be one long training montage with no payoff.
Like, if I recall correctly, her last chapter in ADWD has her warg into a cat so she can pretend to be seeing with her eyes closed, and the Faceless Man training her is surprised by her apparent progress. wow much climax
Filming leak stuff:
Her Winds preview chapter is 100% in. Her climax for the season appears to be her knocking another name off of her list.
As for Meereen, I get the feeling the siege is being dropped entirely, rather than just pushed to season six. The last episode just had the Yunkish giving in to all of her demands rather than resisting, she already has a fleet to facilitate her departure from the area, and it would be easy enough to have Drogon just burn all the Harpies at the pit and call the Meereen plot over.
badcrumble
Member
Heh, I suppose they could just skip that stuff entirely, it's true.
I still think she's gotta go to Asshai eventually obvs.
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