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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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Forkball

Member
To show that he loved her more than anything else, but when it came down to it he believes so strongly in his cause that he was willing to sacrifice the person he loved the most in the world. Just like Azor Ahai.

Why would he punish Mel? She told him what he needed to do for victory and he didn't listen to her. The same happened at the Blackwater.

That story is believable and it could play out that way in the books, but it just happens so suddenly in the show and I am unconvinced by the build up. Not to mention how it happens. Ramsay damn near destroys his entire base. RAMSAY.

Also I'd be pretty pissed that my magic witch didn't predict the complete destruction of all my resources. Not to mention Balon is still alive, so why still believe in king's blood? TWO IS NOT THREE.
 

Madness

Member
Just the way he was acting, the way he tried to get to Dany and say I know a way out and the way he was stabbed and then the last shot you have is just him looking at them like see, they're stabbing me too, I can't be the leader. I fully expect to see him survive and be recovering and that may be the Mereen story for next season, that Tyrion, Jorah and Daario try and do something about her remaining dragons, run the city without her and maybe with an alive Hizdahr, all whole Dany and Drogon do something with the Khal. You know GRRM will probably spend the whole book bringing her back to Mereen when she'll probably decide it's time to go to Westeros so many the showrunners will just speed it up.
 

Moff

Member
You know GRRM will probably spend the whole book bringing her back to Mereen.

272.gif
 
To show that he loved her more than anything else, but when it came down to it he believes so strongly in his cause that he was willing to sacrifice the person he loved the most in the world. Just like Azor Ahai.
It's gonna suck for him when it ends up being Jon. Though they never did the "all I see is Snow" scene.
 
*inhales*

Burning Shireen was fucking stupid. Let me preface this by saying it could very well happen in the book, and hell there have been many theories centered on her getting burned ("waking a dragon from stone"). However, the build up to that scene was absolutely ridiculous and in direct conflict with everything they have done with Stannis this season and prior seasons in regards to his daughter. What was the entire point of the scene with Stannis and Shireen earlier this season? To solely build up the stone men? To make the burning scene seem more ironic and impacting? It didn't work. It just made the scene seem worse. Stannis makes a complete 180 on his treatment of Shireen in a few hours. We get zero internal struggle with Stannis making this decision, he just automatically flips to "Oh well, plan B." This is the man who held Storm's End for a year A YEAR and he can't eat some horses until Davos comes back? It makes Stannis seem like he has zero foresight as well. He burns his only heir. Stannis wins, he's king for like 15 years, the end. I can't see Stannis making a decision like that whatsoever.

Not to mention how the whole thing played out was remarkably dumb. It's like D&D had the footnote "Shireen gets burned" and had to fill in the holes themselves. Instead of burning Shireen, why not punish THE WOMAN WHO CAN SEEMINGLY PREDICT THE FUTURE AND YET DID NOT SEE THIS PIVOTAL MOMENT IN THE CAMPAIGN? Big Boss Ramsay... Jesus. Stannis is perhaps the best commander in Westeros, has the backing of the Iron Bank, the most wealthy organization in the world with connections to magical assassins, and loses all of his supplies to TWENTY DUDES WITH ZERO COMBAT ABILITY. This is James Cameron and Unobtanium levels of, "Fuck it, it just happens ok just roll with it." I'm absolutely baffled. I just want to point out that Ramsay has effectively ended both the Greyjoy and Baratheon lines.


You should fear him because he has twenty good men apparently.

Complete agreement with all of this. I can't comprehend the defenders of this episode.
 

Branduil

Member
The show has turned the Sons of the Harpy into simplistic, "spooky" baddies. I don't mind shortening the Meereen storyline but unsurprisingly, they did it in a really sloppy way. I mean, in the books it's pretty likely that Hizdahr is a Son of the Harpy, but it's also unlikely he tried to poison Dany. The harpies are a terrorist organization, but they have an actual goal and aren't just interested in random killings. But I guess that's the consequence of removing the entire war subplot as well as the shavepate.
 
The show has turned the Sons of the Harpy into simplistic, "spooky" baddies. I don't mind shortening the Meereen storyline but unsurprisingly, they did it in a really sloppy way. I mean, in the books it's pretty likely that Hizdahr is a Son of the Harpy, but it's also unlikely he tried to poison Dany. The harpies are a terrorist organization, but they have an actual goal and aren't just interested in random killings. But I guess that's the consequence of removing the entire war subplot as well as the shavepate.

Yeah, that was a stupid decision. I can't think of a good way to tell her story without the Shavepate.
 

Zabka

Member
That story is believable and it could play out that way in the books, but it just happens so suddenly in the show and I am unconvinced by the build up. Not to mention how it happens. Ramsay damn near destroys his entire base. RAMSAY.

Also I'd be pretty pissed that my magic witch didn't predict the complete destruction of all my resources. Not to mention Balon is still alive, so why still believe in king's blood? TWO IS NOT THREE.

Stannis' army has been suffering for weeks (and more likely months) since it left the wall. Some of the mercenary companies already abandoned them several episodes ago and they were already extremely low on supplies before the attack.

20 experienced warriors with a plan in their homeland against a tired, starving, freezing army under the cover of a snowstorm.

Getting hung up on the Balon thing is just being pedantic. Without the Greyjoy POV he could already be dead for all we know.
 

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
The show has turned the Sons of the Harpy into simplistic, "spooky" baddies. I don't mind shortening the Meereen storyline but unsurprisingly, they did it in a really sloppy way. I mean, in the books it's pretty likely that Hizdahr is a Son of the Harpy, but it's also unlikely he tried to poison Dany. The harpies are a terrorist organization, but they have an actual goal and aren't just interested in random killings. But I guess that's the consequence of removing the entire war subplot as well as the shavepate.

I think part of the reason why it's so sloppy is because they didn't want it to seem like an Iraq analogy, which the book nearly hit you over the head with.
 

Phenomena

Member
So if Stannis doesn't defeat the Boltons who will? In the books there's that whole northern conspiracy going against them if Stannis fail, but that's not presented in the show.

Will LF use his teleportation skills and Eyrie soldiers to march north as he said to Cersei? That seemed more like a lie he told to keep her calm.
Or maybe they don't get theirs and Ramsay is the one true king after all.
 

munchie64

Member
What if Jon and Ramsay meet up and decide that fuck everything let's make a metal band. Jon on lead guitar, ramsay on bass and ghost on drums.

Bastards of Snow
I'm stealing that name.
So if Stannis doesn't defeat the Boltons who will? In the books there's that whole northern conspiracy going against them if Stannis fail, but that's not presented in the show.

Will LF use his teleportation skills and Eyrie soldiers to march north as he said to Cersei? That seemed more like a lie he told to keep her calm.
Or maybe they don't get theirs and Ramsay is the one true king after all.
I can see Stannis winning at this point, cause everyone hates him.
 

Moff

Member
So if Stannis doesn't defeat the Boltons who will? In the books there's that whole northern conspiracy going against them if Stannis fail, but that's not presented in the show.

Will LF use his teleportation skills and Eyrie soldiers to march north as he said to Cersei? That seemed more like a lie he told to keep her calm.
Or maybe they don't get theirs and Ramsay is the one true king after all.

20 good white walkers
 

Forkball

Member
What are these guys actually good at? First of all, the Boltons' jump to the top involved stabbing a lot of drunk and unarmed people. They fought against the Lannisters, but at least in the books its hinted that Bolton is reducing his own casualties while enhancing everyone else's. How did these twenty men acquire their skill? Are they all good at different things? Like one is good at recon and another is good at hiding? Are these guys going to get promoted after this?
 

hiryu

Member
From TWoW chapter apparently

I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him? - Stannis to Theon

Make Ramsay and his 20 good men even more absurd.

It really doesn't it was not a stand up battle. It was only motivation to show that Stannis is in dire straits because he doesn't have food. It basically was a reason for him to sacrifice Shireen but the show did a poor job of showing how bad things were mostly due to lack of time.
 
This is the man who held Storm's End for a year A YEAR and he can't eat some horses until Davos comes back?

The point is he can't just sit there. He refuses to retreat and the storm has made it impossible to go forward. They can't just sit there forever hoping the storm goes away while they starve and freeze.

Big Boss Ramsay... Jesus. Stannis is perhaps the best commander in Westeros, has the backing of the Iron Bank, the most wealthy organization in the world with connections to magical assassins, and loses all of his supplies to TWENTY DUDES WITH ZERO COMBAT ABILITY. This is James Cameron and Unobtanium levels of, "Fuck it, it just happens ok just roll with it." I'm absolutely baffled. I just want to point out that Ramsay has effectively ended both the Greyjoy and Baratheon lines.

I don't think it was all the supplies, was it?

Also, I don't get this constant bitching about them being able to get in and burn the supplies. There's a blizzard going on. Stannis' army is demoralized and hiding in their tents from the cold. A small group of northerners, people who have lived in that area and in that weather their entire lives, snuck in at night and set some fires. Why is that so impossible? Stannis hangs his guards, saying they were either asleep or in cahoots. Why is this situation so impossible to believe? In addition to being demoralized, exhausted, and frozen in this entirely unfamiliar environment, they probably had no reason to believe anyone would be able to make any kind of move in that weather. And what on earth is the relevance of the 20 men's "combat ability"? They didn't fight anybody, and in any case why would you think they had "ZERO COMBAT ABILITY"? Weren't they northern soldiers?
 

hiryu

Member
I will be fully on the D&D are hacks wagon if Olly is the one who stabs Jon and if they show ends on that Cliffhanger without any kind of hint that Jon might come back.
 

Patriots7

Member
Hmm, I was kind of expecting the dragon to take out more people before getting hurt honestly.

What was it like in the book? Because during the Astapor scene when the dragon was much smaller, it was blowing up so much with it's fire breath. Then you hear about the old dragons burning down Harrenhall and helping to conquering the 7 Kingdoms. Here, he takes out like maybe 15-20 people before being injured.
Balerion was monstrously huge. Even for the old dragons he was gigantic.
 

Moff

Member
olly being the only one would be terrible
but leaving jon dead would be fine, its like the books, I don't see how that would make D&D hacks, unless you think GRRM is a hack as well for trying to make us believe for a second that jon is dead, I would actually agree with that.
 

Forkball

Member
The problem with ending the season with, "lol Jon's dead" is that in the books it is hinted clear as day that he is still alive in some form, when we haven't had that build up with the show. Not to mention the sticky business with casting and leaked set photos. People are going to figure out real quick that Jon is not really dead. Also there might be the fear that people drop the show after Snow gets offed. The season has been one gut punch after another so it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for show only watchers.

Episode 10 has to cover so much ground, I don't know how it's possible unless it runs over an hour.

Stannis vs. Boltons
Cersei's confession and walk of penance
Doran's fire and blood speech
Theon and Sansa possibly escaping
Brienne actually doing something
Dany flying around
Tyrion and co. twiddling their thumbs
Mutiny at the wall and OLLY'S DECISION
Yara is supposed to appear this season
Loras and Margaery's fate
LF teleporting
Varys' return (hell I'm thinking they cut this part out)
Arya killing Trant and going blind
Jaime continues to do nothing

I guess you could condense the Winterfell stuff as so many characters will be present there, but still there is a lot you need to touch on.
 

hiryu

Member
The problem with ending the season with, "lol Jon's dead" is that in the books it is hinted clear as day that he is still alive in some form, when we haven't had that build up with the show. Not to mention the sticky business with casting and leaked set photos. People are going to figure out real quick that Jon is not really dead. Also there might be the fear that people drop the show after Snow gets offed. The season has been one gut punch after another so it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for show only watchers.

Episode 10 has to cover so much ground, I don't know how it's possible unless it runs over an hour.

Stannis vs. Boltons
Cersei's confession and walk of penance
Doran's fire and blood speech
Theon and Sansa possibly escaping
Brienne actually doing something
Dany flying around
Tyrion and co. twiddling their thumbs
Mutiny at the wall and OLLY'S DECISION
Yara is supposed to appear this season
Loras and Margaery's fate
LF teleporting
Varys' return (hell I'm thinking they cut this part out)
Arya killing Trant and going blind
Jaime continues to do nothing

I guess you could condense the Winterfell stuff as so many characters will be present there, but still there is a lot you need to touch on.


I think the last episode is 61 minutes long.
 
Stannis' army has been suffering for weeks (and more likely months) since it left the wall. Some of the mercenary companies already abandoned them several episodes ago and they were already extremely low on supplies before the attack.

20 experienced warriors with a plan in their homeland against a tired, starving, freezing army under the cover of a snowstorm.
Why would they be months from the wall? Davos plans to return to Castle Black and back within "a few days". Plus it feels like Ramsay and his '20 good men' and Bolton's scouts are a stones throw away from Stannis's camp with how fast they get shit done. Nobody has seen a winter for a decade so I'm not sure how much of an edge their 'experience' gives them. Shit was handled poorly.
 
Stannis' army has been suffering for weeks (and more likely months) since it left the wall. Some of the mercenary companies already abandoned them several episodes ago and they were already extremely low on supplies before the attack.

20 experienced warriors with a plan in their homeland against a tired, starving, freezing army under the cover of a snowstorm.

Getting hung up on the Balon thing is just being pedantic. Without the Greyjoy POV he could already be dead for all we know.

Still doesn't explain how 20 men perfectly sync up an attack that destroys all or most of the (presumably large) siege weapons and food. Such an attack would take time and be visible. Worse yet managing to kill 100 horses in a stable? There was no noise from the horses...stable boys didn't see anything? 6000 men. And if they were starving or poorly fed, wouldn't the food supply be heavily guarded to prevent stealing?

It's nothing more than a plot contrivance to get Stannis to a point of absolute desperation. As logically bankrupt as Unsullied morphing into weak Storm Troopers whenever a battle starts.

Plus wouldn't Boltons have less of a winter advantage than say...mountain clansman or Umbers? Not everyone in the north is great at navigating the winter, especially those who don't deal with as much snow as others. Obviously Stannis' camp doesn't feature clansman or Umbers in the show, I'm just making the point about Bolton efficiency.
 

Faddy

Banned
The problem with ending the season with, "lol Jon's dead" is that in the books it is hinted clear as day that he is still alive in some form, when we haven't had that build up with the show. Not to mention the sticky business with casting and leaked set photos. People are going to figure out real quick that Jon is not really dead. Also there might be the fear that people drop the show after Snow gets offed. The season has been one gut punch after another so it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for show only watchers.

Episode 10 has to cover so much ground, I don't know how it's possible unless it runs over an hour.

Stannis vs. Boltons
Cersei's confession and walk of penance
Doran's fire and blood speech
Theon and Sansa possibly escaping
Brienne actually doing something
Dany flying around
Tyrion and co. twiddling their thumbs
Mutiny at the wall and OLLY'S DECISION
Yara is supposed to appear this season
Loras and Margaery's fate
LF teleporting
Varys' return (hell I'm thinking they cut this part out)
Arya killing Trant and going blind
Jaime continues to do nothing

I guess you could condense the Winterfell stuff as so many characters will be present there, but still there is a lot you need to touch on.

An hour of TV is a long time. There won't be many scenes of two people talking in room, everyone will be doing something. Look at how much stuff was done in last seasons final episode.
 

Crisco

Banned
So when Hizdahr said "Just making sure everything is in order", he had really just been busy taking a shit or something, right? Dude clearly had no clue what was going on. He was even surprised when Jorah showed up lol.
 
Still doesn't explain how 20 men perfectly sync up an attack that destroys all or most of the (presumably large) siege weapons and food. Such an attack would take time and be visible. Worse yet managing to kill 100 horses in a stable? There was no noise from the horses...stable boys didn't see anything? 6000 men. And if they were starving or poorly fed, wouldn't the food supply be heavily guarded to prevent stealing?

It's nothing more than a plot contrivance to get Stannis to a point of absolute desperation. As logically bankrupt as Unsullied morphing into weak Storm Troopers whenever a battle starts.

Plus wouldn't Boltons have less of a winter advantage than say...mountain clansman or Umbers?

It's not that difficult to infilitrate a camp with 6k people... when you look just like them. Can you personally recall 6k+ people even if some are mercenaries hired? These people aren't equip for the north so y'all just buggered off and were lazy like Stannis said.

The Unsullied aren't some super natural force that can swing a lance and kill 10 people. They're actual people with better training. Yes. They will get killed by a group of people wielding knives but the show has shown they can take down a few before they go down. Floyd Mayweather Jr would get destroyed by 4 people if they all ganged up on him. Having a knife won't dramatically increase your odds of surviving.

Boltons and Starks have been fighting over the North for a while. Yes, not geographically Winterfell but they seem adept regardless. It would be shocking if the Boltons knew Dorne very well.
 

Lothar

Banned
We still have to get Theon's heart tree scene. They wouldn't have given us two brand new Red Wedding type events and not given us something we actually want to see, right?

Although some of the dialogue from that scene was in the previews, it was Sansa saying it rather than Theon. I'm not sure what that's about.
 

Branduil

Member
The Unsullied are a highly-trained group of soldiers with knowledge and experience in fighting. The Sons of the Harpies are random goons with knives. Yeah, they could kill the Unsullied with true guerrilla and terrorist tactics, but the show just keeps having them kill Unsullied in straight-up fights, which is dumb. I mean they're literally fighting in a pit meant for fighting, the Unsullied should slaughter them in that scenario.
 

Crisco

Banned
In the books, a 14 year old Robb Stark with a numerically inferior force and no prior experience, outwits and defeats some of the most seasoned and skilled warriors/commanders in all of Westeros. Ramsay sneaking into a snowed in encampment in the middle of the night and lighting some tents on fire is hardly implausible in the land of GRRM.
 
The Unsullied are a highly-trained group of soldiers with knowledge and experience in fighting. The Sons of the Harpies are random goons with knives. Yeah, they could kill the Unsullied with true guerrilla and terrorist tactics, but the show just keeps having them kill Unsullied in straight-up fights, which is dumb. I mean they're literally fighting in a pit meant for fighting, the Unsullied should slaughter them in that scenario.

Yes. Because having over whelming numbers is not an advantage. Grand majority of unsullied deaths are when their back is turned or ganged up on.
 
Can somebody point to me the evidence in the books that it's clear as day he'll come back? All I'm remembering is that mel is nearby, hints of his importance and the opening prologue with warging. Most has been fan speculation and deconstruction. But you're making it sound like I missed something.
 

Forkball

Member
CASTING ALERT

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-casting-for-another-season-6-female-role/

According to the casting breakdown provided by our sources, the show is looking for a young woman approximately 18-22 years old of any ethnicity to play an “impactful role” in season 6. It’s noted that the part requires a lot of days filming between Oct. 14th and Dec. 7th.


Here’s where the role gets very specific: the actress needs to be very short – about 5 feet tall or shorter. They’re asking for “striking facial features,” eyes that are far apart if possible, and someone with a “child-like physique.” They need someone who is charismatic and has the ability to handle action scenes as well.

A description so exact screams Child of the Forest to us. We previously met the mysterious beings only briefly, when Bran and his party came across one just as they reached the Three-Eyed Raven’s cave in the season 4 finale.

The Child of the Forest we met then was played by young actress Octavia Alexandru. If the role being cast is a Child of the Forest, we don’t know if this new older actress is replacing Alexandru or playing a different character. It’s possible they wanted to take the Children in a different direction and cast someone older with more experience who is able to work more hours. Perhaps they will bring Alexandru back and and we will see several Children?

Bran Stark was stated to return in season 6 and if this is a Child casting, that would confirm that he is coming back on schedule.

Definitely sounds like a child of the forest. Since it sounds like this character will be featured a lot, it seems like they are completely recasting Leaf. Hopefully this means her and Bloodraven get a major visual overhaul. Also, action scenes? BRAN'S CRAWLIN OUTTA THAT CAVE GUYS
 
Yes. Because having over whelming numbers is not an advantage. Grand majority of unsullied deaths are when their back is turned or ganged up on.

Which also seems to be a hallmark of the show Unsullied. They're pretty big on keeping their backs to their enemy at all times. Oh, and we saw several more of them scream in pain in this last episode as well. There's really no reason to believe, based on what we've seen this season, that Dany's army of Unsullied could have any role to play in conquering Westeros at any point.

There's a reason why the Harpies in the books would creatively lure one Shavepate/SS/Unsullied at a time into a bad situation and kill them- it's because openly engaging them at any point would have been ludicrous.
 
CASTING ALERT

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-casting-for-another-season-6-female-role/



Definitely sounds like a child of the forest. Since it sounds like this character will be featured a lot, it seems like they are completely recasting Leaf. Hopefully this means her and Bloodraven get a major visual overhaul. Also, action scenes? BRAN'S CRAWLIN OUTTA THAT CAVE GUYS
Heh. It sounds like they're trying to save on the CGI budget by casting for specific facial features. The current actress looked nothing like her CGI appearance looked, despite that appearance not looking too out of the ordinary.
 
Which also seems to be a hallmark of the show Unsullied. They're pretty big on keeping their backs to their enemy at all times. Oh, and we saw several more of them scream in pain in this last episode as well. There's really no reason to believe, based on what we've seen this season, that Dany's army of Unsullied could have any role to play in conquering Westeros at any point.

There's a reason why the Harpies in the books would creatively lure one Shavepate/SS/Unsullied at a time into a bad situation and kill them- it's because openly engaging them at any point would have been ludicrous.

Obviously the show isn't the books.

The Unsullied aren't an unstoppable force. Yes. Their backs will be against their enemies in a mess of a fight. What did you expect? Them all to whirlwind and send corpses flying? Toss a light well when one is injured? Outside of plot armor, all characters can be killed if multiple people surround them. I have a feeling people who think the Unsullied are weak will probably hate the fact that dragons--hold the gasps--can be damaged by spears.
 

Paganmoon

Member
Show unsullied have been coddled too much by Dany, thus they're no longer a force to be reckoned with.
This will probably also happen in the books.
 
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