Support NeoGAF

[Makai]

There's a lot of travelling and moving pieces in AFFC and ADWD, to properly adapt it would take too long and honestly it wouldn't make good tv, not that I'm saying their revisions have been much better.

I'm shocked because they were running out of source material.

 

[Emerson]

The fact that they didn't bother to do the Davos Manderley scenes really hurt the flow of this season. It would have given team Stark something to hold onto until season 6 and it would have been more satisfying to see the back and firth between them and the Freys. It's really disappointing that none of those chapters made it to the screen. It's some of the best writing Martin has done in the entire series.

I don't really think D&D actually understand what is good about this book series to be honest.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Jon was a LOT stupider in the books. "Come on guys, let's desert the watch because WINTERFELL!!"

His stabbing felt far more sympathetic here.

And yet it only happens because the characters that stabbed him were completely dehumanized. Now they stab him because racism lol

 

[LegendofJoe]

I don't really think D&D actually understand what is good about this book series to be honest.

Sometimes I doubt they've even read the books. And if they have they can't have read through them more than once.

 

[vas_a_morir]

*Jon gets repeatedly stabbed*

*Olly approaches sheepishly*

Jon: "Olly"

*Olly gets a pained expression on his face*

Jon: "Olly... where is the guy you said knew Benjen?"

 

[cj_iwakura]

I can't be the only one who hoped Syrio was gonna show up. At least ask the guy if he's alive, damn.

*Jon gets repeatedly stabbed*

*Olly approaches sheepishly*

Jon: "Olly"

*Olly gets a pained expression on his face*

Jon: "Olly... where is the guy you said knew Benjen?"

#dead

 

[hendersonhank]

So Kit says flat-out that he is not coming back and D&D told him Jon is dead and not coming back.

I have to say I'm beginning to think it might be true. Jon seemed dead as shit, Ghost was nowhere, there's no warging in the show. And honestly I hope it is, the Chosen One storyline really doesn't seem to suit what GRRM seemed to be going for when he started this series. Hopefully Dany gets it next.

Team Littlefinger. Or at any rate, let the thinkers win. Littlefinger, Sam, Tyrion...not these Hero's Quest lame-o's.

 

[Emerson]

Sometimes I doubt they've even read the books. And if they have they can't have read through them more than once.

They've not been shy of saying that they love everything up to the Red Wedding and that was all they ever really wanted to adapt for the screen. They've seemed to have a distinct lack of passion since then.

 

[Lord Couture]

Sometimes I doubt they've even read the books. And if they have they can't have read through them more than once.

In the Oxford interview before the season, they didn't even know/remember Sam was a POV.

 

[Lothar]

I think it could have been seen as a very strong episode if the Stannis/Ramsay, Theon/Sansa, Jon ending scenes weren't so rushed. Why not have Jon reading Ramsay's letter and then going to save his sister?

How could we not get a Theon heart tree scene? They could have easily fit it in. Next to Stannis burning Shireen, that's the biggest mistake of the season. Could have left the Tyrion scenes off for next season.

As it is with those three stories being so rushed, it was okay. Arya and Cersei were about perfect. The episode was a mixture of very good and very bad.

Oh and wow, Stannis in the show looks extremely stupid. Stannis in the book knew that if he burned people, the non-believers would abandon him.

 

[m_shortpants]

So Kit says flat-out that he is not coming back and D&D told him Jon is dead and not coming back.

I have to say I'm beginning to think it might be true. Jon seemed dead as shit, Ghost was nowhere, there's no warging in the show. And honestly I hope it is, the Chosen One storyline really doesn't seem to suit what GRRM seemed to be going for when he started this series. Hopefully Dany gets it next.

Team Littlefinger. Or at any rate, let the thinkers win. Littlefinger, Sam, Tyrion...not these Hero's Quest lame-o's.

Has to be a fake out I think.

GRRM has set way too much up for that to be the case...but then again you're right he would totally do that to shit on heroic characters saving the day.

I just don't know anymore.

 

[suzu]

*Jon gets repeatedly stabbed*

*Olly approaches sheepishly*

Jon: "Olly"

*Olly gets a pained expression on his face*

Jon: "Olly... where is the guy you said knew Benjen?"

lmao

 

[bengraven]

I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?

This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really.

One thing actors get excited about after a long time on a show is they can change their appearance. Any plans to cut your hair?

I look like Jim Morrison right now. I don’t know what to do with it. I can cut it if I want, but it’s probably wise to leave long until I know what the next part is. I’ve kind of grown accustomed to it, it would feel weird to change it. [Note: Shortly after this interview was conducted, he cut it]

...what if he's really dead?

On the Behind the Episode, they seemed legit that he was done with. "*sad exhausted sigh* It didn't work out for Jon Snow..."

 

[Fuzzy]

It's obvious he's lying to try to hide that he's not dead.

 

[cj_iwakura]

It's obvious he's lying to try to hide that he's not dead.

Well, we still don't really know for sure. I doubt it, but it's not impossible.

 

[DrForester]

...what if he's really dead?

Then GRRM is really a horrible storyteller.

 

[bengraven]

It's obvious he's lying to try to hide that he's not dead.

Maybe he's taking a season off.

I’m not coming back next season.

Otherwise...man...

 

[Burt]

So Kit says flat-out that he is not coming back and D&D told him Jon is dead and not coming back.

I have to say I'm beginning to think it might be true. Jon seemed dead as shit, Ghost was nowhere, there's no warging in the show. And honestly I hope it is, the Chosen One storyline really doesn't seem to suit what GRRM seemed to be going for when he started this series. Hopefully Dany gets it next.

Yeah, zero percent chance on both counts.

I do appreciate the people involved attempting to maintain the illusion for at least a little bit, though.

 

[Leeness]

Just watching now.

Stay losing, Stannis.

 

[Basileus777]

...what if he's really dead?

We laugh at GRRM.

 

[fallengorn]

They don't need Kit to come in and wear a direwolf costume. Anyone can do that.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Maybe he's taking a season off.



Otherwise...man...

Pulling a Bran? It's possible. Seems like a long time before being resurrected.

 

[Zolo]

Jon Snow's not dead.

 

[Ros8105]

Melisandre, guyz

 

[flyover]

- Having finally accepted his defeat he will be the man to replace Jon as Lord Commander and get the watch back on track. There's no better man to do it. He's iron willed, understands the threat of the White Walkers (as displayed by his conversation with Sam) and a proven military commander. He's the only man who could turn the watch back into something respectable.

This is totally happening (and I like it). The whole reason they showed Pod picking up his axe was probably so they can show that shot again in the "previously on..." segment in next season's premiere. He either stops Brienne's killing blow or whacks her with the flat side of the axe.

 

[LegendofJoe]

We laugh at GRRM.

And I quit reading the books and watching the show, it would no longer be worth my time.

 

[suzu]

There's just no way Jon stays dead in the books. If he is gone then, what was the point of everything. lol

Could go either way in the show. I don't really have much confidence in D&D.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Then GRRM is really a horrible storyteller.

He's sure not perfect.

 

[DrForester]

 

[Atraveller]

He's sure not perfect.

But he's not bad like D&D are.

 

[LordCanti]

There's no way he's warging (they never even tried to set that up) so we'll know if he's dead or not as soon as shooting starts for next season. There's no way to keep that a secret. Even if he's going to be "dead" for a few episodes, they still need him to sit there on a slab.

When does filming usually start back up?

 

[vas_a_morir]

I don't think Jon is dead. But, I guess he could be, but it would be kinda boring if he was.

 

[bengraven]

Then GRRM is really a horrible storyteller.

I'm trying very very hard to understand the motivation of killing him. Is his story truly done?

Yes, he didn't find out who his parents are and frankly, now that he's dead why the big fucking secret? Unless the fact that Lyanna loved Rhaegar would be something revealed later in the series and it has a major impact on a storyline and someone realizes that the dead JS, tragically, could have been the one to save them.

We have plenty of characters still, so we don't have to worry about losing a focus, even in the North. That part of the story can still be told without him.

So what has he done to move things forward? Because that's another way a character can die - if they put things in motion. The Wildlings? Maybe out of love for Jon they help or join the NW? Is Sam taking Jon's place - being safely away from Alliser et all might make it so he can come back stronger and help out.

I don't know, but I'm now considering the strong possibility.

 

[Werd]

I can't think of an ASoIaF character who died that truly projected to be critical to the endgame GRRM always had in mind. Jon is way too tied up in the White Walker stuff in the books and then gets the big stare down with the Night's King in the show. He doesn't have to be the chosen one victor at the end, but not even involved? Can't see it.

OK, so Jon is obviously going to be resurrected by Melisandre. I always thought the Jon warning into Ghost theory was stupid.

- Shireen's burning didn't grant Stannis a favor. Instead it will be used to resurrect Jon, who we already know Melisandre had an interest in.
- Melisandre just so happens to make it back to the wall right before it happens. Jon will be resurrected in the final scene of S6E01

All of this relates back to Stannis.
- I am going to assume Stannis isn't dead. They didn't show him die on screen. There was no reason NOT to show it unless it's specifically because Stannis doesn't die.
- Where is the one place Stannis has left to go? No family and his only friend is at the wall. He will go to the wall.
- Having finally accepted his defeat he will be the man to replace Jon as Lord Commander and get the watch back on track. There's no better man to do it. He's iron willed, understands the threat of the White Walkers (as displayed by his conversation with Sam) and a proven military commander. He's the only man who could turn the watch back into something respectable.

Sounds good to me. I thought the sacrifice would work for more than melting snow, resurrecting Jon would be worth it for the R'hollor cause.

If that's the case though really do think showing her seeing something dire in the flames would have helped. You get tension at the wall over what she sees prior to the abrupt FTW, and get a better explanation for why a fanatic would abandon her "chosen one" rather than just desertion in the face of defeat. And it would have given some tension to the wall scenes before she arrives rather than just abrupt betrayal at the end.

Stannis attempting to atone at the wall and giving us someone to follow there if Jon stays dead for a bit or leaves when revived. Hope for it or we could get Olly!

 

[Zabka]

I enjoyed the episode but the Robert Strong shit looked RIDICULOUS. Cersei's walk was pretty well done and then it gets to the end and that bloated purple face appears and it all goes to shit.

 

[schlongdog]

Amazing, we said they couldn't end on the death because how could they possibly fool the show watchers into thinking he was really dead.


And now some of us are having doubts hahaha!

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

I liked the previously for this episode bit with the bait and switch for benjen stark. Earlier I thought I got spoiled by reading that benjen was in this episode. Then the previously on Game of Thrones bit had him in it and I was pissed I got spoiled but nope it was all a ruse. My friends that are watching it later that haven't read the books are really not going to see that ending coming so for them at least it will be a surprise.

Amazing, we said they couldn't end on the death because how could they possibly fool the show watchers into thinking he was really dead.


And now some of us are having doubts hahaha!

I'm guilty of that, I thought there was no way they would do it because how can they possibly keep this under wrap until the next season airs. Going to be an interesting year that's for sure.

 

[bengraven]

That said, why the fuck did they all just walk away?

"Yeah, we'll let the body just sit here in the courtyard". Unless they didn't want anyone else to know what they did. I was just assuming they had the entire watch's support in this.

I liked the previously for this episode bit with the bait and switch for benjen stark. Earlier I thought I got spoiled by reading that benjen was in this episode. Then the previously on Game of Thrones bit had him in it and I was pissed I got spoiled but nope it was all a ruse. My friends that are watching it later that haven't read the books are really not going to see that ending coming so for them at least it will be a surprise.

I was so let down. I got all excited seeing it in the preview, then Olly ran in like "Hey we found Benjen!" and it was so obvious what he was doing. "Come down here to this dark part of the castle with these scruffy looking dudes, quick!"

 

[petethepanda]

So in the books there was clearly some evidence there to at least suggest the possibility of Jon coming back, but was there much in the show?

 

[Atraveller]

So in the books there was clearly some evidence there to at least suggest the possibility of Jon coming back, but was there much in the show?

Melisandre's convenient return.

 

[bengraven]

So in the books there was clearly some evidence there to at least suggest the possibility of Jon coming back, but was there much in the show?

Seriously in love with Carice Von Houten by the way. The last two weeks just...ennh. She's even my cell phone wallpaper.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I'm trying very very hard to understand the motivation of killing him. Is his story truly done?

Yes, he didn't find out who his parents are and frankly, now that he's dead why the big fucking secret? Unless the fact that Lyanna loved Rhaegar would be something revealed later in the series and it has a major impact on a storyline and someone realizes that the dead JS, tragically, could have been the one to save them.

We have plenty of characters still, so we don't have to worry about losing a focus, even in the North. That part of the story can still be told without him.

So what has he done to move things forward? Because that's another way a character can die - if they put things in motion. The Wildlings? Maybe out of love for Jon they help or join the NW? Is Sam taking Jon's place - being safely away from Alliser et all might make it so he can come back stronger and help out.

I don't know, but I'm now considering the strong possibility.

I don't read books, but I'm pretty curious what the book readers thought.

Jon's parents could easily be the biggest red herrings of GoT. Everyone was focusing on his parents, thinking of the bigger picture of the White Walkers completely forgetting how vulnerable he was as people started to tell him directly in his face "You're on thin fucking ice, you're going to get us killed".

Davos is at Castle Black, he might be the one who takes the PoV of The Wall.

Either way, Jon's death wasn't all that shocking, it's not like any of the Nights Watch men who went over the wall with him were stabbing him, it was everyone who are blinded by hate and can't see the bigger picture, the inverse of Jon who kept on forgetting that most people aren't getting the big picture.

Jon really went out like Ned, too faithful and trustworthy that people will do the right thing in the face of the greater good.

 

[petethepanda]

Melisandre's convenient return.

But (looking at only the show) is there any reason to think she can straight-up resurrect someone?

Edit: Well, Beric. I keep forgetting about him (as did the show).

 

[ChaosZeroX]

But (looking at only the show) is there any reason to think she can straight-up resurrect someone?

They have never showed her resurrecting anyone. I don't want Jon to lose apart of himself though. I hope he gets revived some other way rather then Mel.

 

[LordCanti]

They have never showed her resurrecting anyone.

Neither had Thoros until he did it that first time.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

Does anyone else think Melisandre might have actually foresaw all of this from the beginning? Does she actually have that much power?

 

[Atraveller]

But (looking at only the show) is there any reason to think she can straight-up resurrect someone?

Edit: Well, Beric. I keep forgetting about him (as did the show).

Only the fact that she knows it's do-able.

 

[Patriots7]

I love D&D.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I enjoyed the episode but the Robert Strong shit looked RIDICULOUS. Cersei's walk was pretty well done and then it gets to the end and that bloated purple face appears and it all goes to shit.

Yeah, not digging it.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Does anyone else think Melisandre might have actually foresaw all of this from the beginning? Does she actually have that much power?

I don't think she sees shit.

She's probably just a pawn that the LoL uses to do some shit.

"I see Boltan banners burning", which could easily mean

1) Stannis wins!
2) Stannis loses, Boltons embrace LoL!

She's a fucking fake, just like those people who talk to the dead, say general shit and you're always right!