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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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bengraven

bengraven

Member
Iksenpets said:
Yep, it makes sense though. It explains the geography behind why the boat trip is happening on the way from Volantis to Meereen, given that the Sorrows are north of Meereen, and instead of a pointless history lesson about the Rhoynar, we get to see Valyria and learn more about that.
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Not a fan of it. It makes it seem like a connection.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
bengraven said:
Not a fan of it. It makes it seem like a connection.
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Eh, I don't see any reason there couldn't be a connection. If they want to say that greyscale first surfaced right after the Doom or something like that, I'm ok with it.

Steelyuhas said:
Beric vs The Hound was well done I thought.

I think it's worth noting that although GoT is an insanely expensive production, it's still a TV production on a very tight schedule. I'm sure getting what they want out of fight scenes is a tall order, especially in the case of someone like Barristan (Ian is 67 years old).



Yeah I wasn't very familiar with Mark's previous work much (he has a variety of TV credits, most notably of recent a number of Shamless episodes).

Direction in this show is an interesting challenge. Pretty much every director of this is being asked to do the biggest scale production they've handled in their career.

Season 5 is an interesting prospect from a direction perspective because it's four newcomers, only one returning director (David Nutter is doing 9 and 10).
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Oh yeah definitely. Action scenes are particularly affected by the tight schedule, and there are probably cases where it's really difficult to get actors who are not stunt people ready for their scenes, especially in the case of Barristan where you're dealing with an older person. Sometimes I just wish that they would kind of embrace that limitation though, instead of deciding that they at least need one action scene every episode and leaving themselves without enough time to really do them all right.
 
M

Massa

Member
badcrumble said:
I can buy the idea that Sansa's politically untouchable to the Boltons because they need her to secure the loyalty of the North (so they won't let her come to harm). Same reasons they need fArya in the books.

What's harder for me to buy is the idea that it's okay for Sansa to come into the open because suddenly the Lannisters have zero pull in the North. It's true that the northern Bolton coup was pulled off pretty much in secret via Tywin's scheming and Cersei doesn't have that same connection to the Boltons, but Roose is still Warden of the North only with a Lannister blessing.

fArya threads both of those needles (Northern legitimacy + keeping the Lannisters happy) while Sansa only succeeds at the first.

Not saying it's necessarily terrible writing, but the writers need to show that there are consequences to the fact that revealing Sansa is going to piss the Lannisters off and arguably tip Littlefinger's hand with regard to his participation in Joffrey's assassination. If Cersei somehow doesn't find out about it, or if she finds out but doesn't really react, that's pretty lame.
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If Roose keeps Winterfell and Sansa he doesn't need Cersei at all. Hell, he could be King in the North.

Lothar said:
The writer wasn't good either. There was an enormous amount of exposition. Almost all of it was clumsy and awkward. The only good one was the Stannis scene and I think that may possibly be despite the writing and just because of the terrific acting. I can tell you from all of the casuals I know, the exposition is just completely wasted on them. They don't remember who Rhaegar was. (And barely just remember the name Lyanna) Why would they? It's been like 4 years since he was mentioned. I'm sure there's a way to write it to make them care about Rhaegar again but that wasn't it.

Both Littlefinger and the Sand Snakes explaining their plots came off incredibly unnatural and was hard to follow even as a book reader because their motivations/feelings just don't make any sense. Littlefinger is 1. Leaving his prize. 2. With a psychopath. 3. And he knows Stannis is invading? I still can't wrap my mind around how this benefits him even if everything miraculously works out. Stannis comes along and Sansa kills Ramsey, okay, Sansa has a claim to the north, what does that have to do with Littlefinger? Stannis and Sansa will both tell him to fuck off. Unless Sansa is in love with him or something.
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Sounds like your friends are casual watchers, nothing wrong with that. Many people that only watch the show have figured out R+L=J (heck, some even in season 1). Also they did mention Rhaegar before this season, I think it was in season 3 that they had “Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.” (also a lot of book readers have no idea about any of that stuff either).

Littlefinger has been manipulating Sansa since they first met in season 1. Of course he thinks she'll work with him, otherwise she's completely useless to him.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Massa said:
If Roose keeps Winterfell and Sansa he doesn't need Cersei at all. Hell, he could be King in the North.
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Like the books:

Theon said:
"Truth be told," she said, "Lord Bolton aspires to more than mere lordship. Why not King of the North? Tywin Lannister is dead, the Kingslayer is maimed, the Imp is fled. The Lannisters are a spent force, and you were kind enough to rid him of the Starks. Old Walder Frey will not object to his fat little Walda becoming a queen. White Harbor might prove troublesome should Lord Wyman survive this coming battle … but I am quite sure that he will not. No more than Stannis. Roose will remove both of them, as he removed the Young Wolf. Who else is there?"
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Z

Zabka

Member
I can't imagine anyone is more popular in the North than Sansa. She's publicly known to have avenged the death of Ned Stark.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
Just finished last night's episode. Probably've been brought up, but the Harpy ambush was some straight up bullshit. I understand you needing to see some fatalities, but the Unsullied fought like idiots. I was expecting them to at least fight back to back.

Rest of the episode was okay-ish.
 
M

Mxrz

Member
The show hasn't mention any of the Tower of Joy stuff? I thought there was a line or two about Ned vs Dayne and friends. No wonder the TV people are confused.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Why is it that every character in this show can die but not a character who has absolutely zero impact on the central plot?

Is it because people heard he was a great fighter?
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Speevy said:
Why is it that every character in this show can die but not a character who has absolutely zero impact on the central plot?

Is it because people heard he was a great fighter?
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? There are a buttload of characters they can't and will not kill on the show.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Speevy said:
Why is it that every character in this show can die but not a character who has absolutely zero impact on the central plot?

Is it because people heard he was a great fighter?
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He's kind of in the middle of an important situation in Dance/Winds. Doubly so because Daario, Dany, Jorah, and Tyrion are all well outside the city walls.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Sho_Nuff82 said:
He's kind of in the middle of an in important situation in Dance/Winds. Doubly so because Daario, Dany, Jorah, and Tyrion are all well outside the city walls.
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Right, but either that situation doesn't matter in the show, or it does and they'll just replace him with another adviser who will counsel her similarly, or fight similarly.

He's one of those people who people liked, an amiable sort so it sucks to lose him, but I wouldn't have been clamoring for someone else if he hadn't shown up again in season 3.

Any character who you can go to the ASOIAF Wiki and find doing nothing but living life in relative peace is fair game to kill. Better than some random anyway, more compelling television.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Speevy said:
Tyrion is probably the only fully bulletproof character I can name.


Who are you thinking can't die?
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They can't prematurely kill Dany, Arya, Cersei, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Rickon etc. Can you imagine if Jon died in the next episode instead of the last and by something completely unrelated?
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
He's kind of in the middle of an important situation in Dance/Winds. Doubly so because Daario, Dany, Jorah, and Tyrion are all well outside the city walls.
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I don't think the battle for Meereen with seemingly ever army in the world marching on Meereen is going to happen in the show like it will in the books.

The conflicts will likely remain internal to Meereen, with the Harpies waging a civil war and Dany likely continues to make concessions to try to stop the violence (getting married, reopening the fighting pits).
 
J

Joni

Member
They really fucked up the Unsullied fight. They had spears and shields, with the possibility of forming a falanx. They should have won that fight without a single loss. I think sometimes this show needs the guys from Spartacus for their fight scenes. They would have given Barristan a more epic fight. The Sand Snake tossing a spear also looks bad, it looked like the distance I could throw a spear if I wasn't trying at all. But the lack of finish on that stuff is only part of it, the show feels weaker this season. And I don't even know if it is because they are deviating from the books, because some deviations like Jaimie + Bronn are working very well while some stuff from the books, Jorah + Tyrion, isn't.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Ratrat said:
They can't prematurely kill Dany, Arya, Cersei, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Rickon etc. Can you imagine if Jon died in the next episode instead of the last and by something completely unrelated?
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I didn't say they would die prematurely, but I can see many of those characters dying before the end.

Dany's story hardly seems like one that will redeem her in the eyes of the Westerosi people, so it sure appears as though she's doomed, though not for a while or under current circumstances.

Arya is bent on cold-blooded revenge, so I'm pretty sure she's going to die.

Cersei will definitely die unless the Lannister story takes a drastic change.

Jon will live most likely.

Rickon is probably written off the show completely if he has no great role to play in the end game.

Bran will likely serve as a way for viewers to see into the future and past to explain things that are happening. I can't see him being carried around anymore.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Speevy said:
I didn't say they would die prematurely, but I can see many of those characters dying before the end.

Dany's story hardly seems like one that will redeem her in the eyes of the Westerosi people, so it sure appears as though she's doomed, though not for a while or under current circumstances.

Arya is bent on cold-blooded revenge, so I'm pretty sure she's going to die.

Cersei will definitely die unless the Lannister story takes a drastic change.

Jon will live most likely.

Rickon is probably written off the show completely if he has no great role to play in the end game.

Bran will likely serve as a way for viewers to see into the future and past to explain things that are happening. I can't see him being carried around anymore.
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I guess I misunderstood then, the dialogue was about Barristan. I agree that few of them are safe, though it will likely be close to the end anyway.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
I just realized we were having this exact debate last year over the rape thing, only now they've apparently raped Barristan Selmy.

I wonder if we'll be as angry if they do an actual rape scene with Sansa.
 
T

Tabris

Member
Tyrion will become her advisor most likely, that's why they needed to push out Selmy faster than the books. As won't they be ahead of the books with Tyrion being her advisor? I bet you GRRM meant to have Selmy killed before that happens in books too. Since the show doesn't need to go through all the Second Sons mercenary story?

Based on what I've heard of Dances, I'm glad they are rushing through this as the story sounded really boring.
 
T

Tabris

Member
Ratrat said:
I feel like Tyrion needs someone like Selmy to vouch for him before Dany would even think of trusting him.
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Why would Selmy vouch for him? He wasn't there when Selmy was demoted. His King Landing story didn't start until season 2.

I think he was still at the battle encampment with his father or still traveling with the hill tribe. He wasn't announced Hand yet .

EDIT - Varys will vouch for Tyrion. He'll catch up with Tyrion and Jorahmont.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Ratrat said:
I feel like Tyrion needs someone like Selmy to vouch for him before Dany would even think of trusting him.
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When Selmy left King's Landing in the show, Tyrion wasn't in a position of any authority whatsoever.

Given his reputation for killing men in high office, Selmy might well have advised Dany against trusting him.
 
W

Wubby

Member
I wondered about that too... I figured they would need Selmy to vouch for Tyrion. But then I had another idea... It's the dragons that are going to vouch for Tyrion. But that's getting into some other unproven theories.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Wubby said:
I wondered about that too... I figured they would need Selmy to vouch for Tyrion. But then I had another idea... It's the dragons that are going to vouch for Tyrion. But that's getting into some other unproven theories.
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Stahp. Tyrion is not a secret Targ.
 
L

Lautaro

Member
How will Varys vouch for Tyrion? he's the spymaster, the former boss of Jorah that gave him the mission to spy on Daenerys.

I hope the writers haven't write themselves into a corner by making Varys a Dany supporter.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Tabris said:
Why would Selmy vouch for him? He wasn't there when Selmy was demoted. His King Landing story didn't start until season 2.

I think he was still at the battle encampment with his father or still traveling with the hill tribe. He wasn't announced Hand yet .

EDIT - Varys will vouch for Tyrion. He'll catch up with Tyrion and Jorahmont.
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As Roberts master of spies, Varys seems even worse....
I assumed Tyrion lived in Kings Landing before Game of Thrones but maybe not. If he did, Barristan could at least verify his relationship with Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
When this series is over, Jon Snow will look in the sky to see the three Jedi masters Ros, Karl Tanner, and Olly smiling down at him.


Not that Olly dies mind you. He just starts to transcend time and space before too long. That's usually how these things work.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Ratrat said:
As Roberts master of spies, Varys seems even worse....
I assumed Tyrion lived in Kings Landing before Game of Thrones but maybe not. If he did, Barristan could at least verify his relationship with Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei.
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Tyrion was a rich man but he was certainly unwelcome near his sister, and the king hated his family.

He likely just stayed out of everyone's way.
 
T

Tabris

Member
Lautaro said:
How will Varys vouch for Tyrion? he's the spymaster, the former boss of Jorah that gave him the mission to spy on Daenerys.

I hope the writers haven't write themselves into a corner by making Varys a Dany supporter.
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Uhm, but he is? He was the one that helped sail the two across the sea to Essos after the rebellion.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
I really don't think Barristan is dead. They wouldn't bother having Grey Worm deflect that last blow if he was.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Speevy said:
Tyrion was a rich man but he was certainly unwelcome near his sister, and the king hated his family.

He likely just stayed out of everyone's way.
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Well, there was Jaime and the host of Lannisters crawling everywhere. But either way, it does kind of seem unlikely he was there long.
 
L

Lautaro

Member
Tabris said:
Uhm, but he is? He was the one that helped sail the two across the sea to Essos after the rebellion.
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He's Aegon's supporter and he still plotted to get her killed.

I'm Ok with the show removing Aegon but making Varys going to Dany and expecting a warm welcome seems weird.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Lautaro said:
He's Aegon's supporter and he still plotted to get her killed.

I'm Ok with the show removing Aegon but making Varys going to Dany and expecting a warm welcome seems weird.
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He technically plotted to have a failed assassination attempt that'd make her trust Jorah more. It was never supposed to succeed in the book or on the show.
 
L

Lautaro

Member
suzu said:
He's gone, bro.
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Someone needs to remake that Simpsons gif and replace Robb's face with Barristan.

EDIT:

badcrumble said:
He technically plotted to have a failed assassination attempt that'd make her trust Jorah more. It was never supposed to succeed in the book or on the show.
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Yes, I'm sure she will understand when this is explained to her by Varys, Jorah and Tyrion.

EDIT2: I'm getting too pesimistic and that shit is contagious so I better take a break.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
suzu said:
He's gone, bro.
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I doubt that.

I mean, even in the episode they set up one of the Harpy's trying to slit his throat as a kill shot and had Grey Worm save him from that. That's pretty fucking redundant if he's just gonna roll over and die anyways.

Barry's fine. Well not fine, but not dead.
 
J

Jigorath

Banned
Guys, Barristan's dead.

Aiii said:
I doubt that.

I mean, even in the episode they set up one of the Harpy's trying to slit his throat as a kill shot and had Grey Worm save him from that. That's pretty fucking redundant if he's just gonna roll over and die anyways.

Barry's fine. Well not fine, but not dead.
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That's because this show is often very poorly directed. GoT has never been on the level of Breaking Bad or True Detective.
 
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