John Dunbar
correct about everything
barristan will betray dany for ashara (septa lemore).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
barristan will betray dany for ashara (septa lemore).
Fixed. And it can't be Stannis because if it was that important then the show runners could always bring him back. It has to be a character we know is dead for certain in the show.
And last year he was vague about the twist talking about "decisions made in the show". This year he flat out says the character is dead which must mean it was a Season 5 death.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I doubt Barristan will survive the battle of fire, but if he does I'd imagine Martin has planned for him to betray Dany for some time (betrayal for blood).
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Good.
CopperPuppy
Member
Oh, how far I've fallen. The smug self-righteousness of being an "in-the-know" book reader and prior fan have spiraled into greedily grasping at any plot development GRRM will get to reveal through the books first. Once satisfied with the ignorance of assuming that the books would get the first bite at the apple, I now find myself cherishing even a single twist. A Gollum-like existence, really.
biosnake20
Member
Finn Jones is gonna be Iron Fist so Loras is dead.
Aren't they the same character? I'm sure Renly called him Iron Fist a few times...
Oh Jesus.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Eh...there's only 10 episodes for each show or something of that sort...plus he's a minor character in game of thrones in almost all scenes...it could go either way. He's not particularly useful anymore so yeah killing him off for the sake of killing him off could work.
Steelyuhas
Member
Neogriff pls
At the time he first mentioned the twist, he had been given season 5 outlines that in all likelihood made it clear to him that Stannis was dead, more so than the actual show made it to viewers. And by the time he had settled on actually doing the twist, production was probably ramping back up; it'd be too late to rewrite things to bring him back.
I think it's Stannis, Mance, or Barristan. I feel like it's someone who died in season five, since before season 5 he was coy about "oh they've made some changes that would make this impossible" to "oh yeah they're dead". Also if the twist involved any characters who are cut entirely, he would've been sure to mention that too, so I doubt it ties into the Aegon gang at all.
It could be someone really minor like Mago or something, but if that's the case then he is just a sick, sick troll.
Oh and RIP Loras. I hope he does the way he lived: talking about how gay he is.
Mance Rayder = Rhaegar Targaryen
bitbydeath
Member
Cornballer
Member
A bunch of recent interviews and other tidbits from the usual sources:
- Watchers: First look at “The Many-Faced God” from the Game of Thrones Season 5 Blu-ray
- EW with Cogman's defense of that Sansa scene from the S5 DVD set
- WiCnet: Liam Cunningham on S6
- WiCnet: Natalie Dormer interview
- WiCnet: Maisie Williams interview
- Watchers: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and John Bradley on life, filming Game of Thrones and Jon Snow
- Watchers: Maisie Williams and Liam Cunningham talk Game of Thrones Season 6, and GoT picks up 5 Saturn noms
- Game of Thrones Kinda Life- The Tale of Jon Snow (via EW, parody of Third Eye Blind's Semi-Charmed Life)
EDIT:
- The Independent: Game of Thrones cast on why working with CGI green screen is ‘so tricky’
- Watchers: First look at “The Many-Faced God” from the Game of Thrones Season 5 Blu-ray
- EW with Cogman's defense of that Sansa scene from the S5 DVD set
- WiCnet: Liam Cunningham on S6
- WiCnet: Natalie Dormer interview
- WiCnet: Maisie Williams interview
- Watchers: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and John Bradley on life, filming Game of Thrones and Jon Snow
- Watchers: Maisie Williams and Liam Cunningham talk Game of Thrones Season 6, and GoT picks up 5 Saturn noms
- Game of Thrones Kinda Life- The Tale of Jon Snow (via EW, parody of Third Eye Blind's Semi-Charmed Life)
EDIT:
- The Independent: Game of Thrones cast on why working with CGI green screen is ‘so tricky’
biosnake20
Member
-Westeros.org: Histories and Lore: Roberts Rebellion(Barristan Selmy Perspective)
Full Histories and Lore list revealed too:
· The Seven-Pointed Star: narrated by The High Sparrow (Jonathan Pryce)
· The Faith Militant: narrated by The High Sparrow (Jonathan Pryce)
· Volantis: narrated by Lord Varys (Conleth Hill)
· Braavos: narrated by Tycho Nestoris (Mark Gatiss)
· The Faceless Men: narrated by Tycho Nestoris (Mark Gatiss)
· Winterfell: narrated by Roose Bolton (Michael McElhatton)
· The Lord Commanders: narrated by Ser Alliser Thorne (Owen Teale)
· Robert’s Rebellion: narrated by Barristan Selmy (Ian McElhinney)
· Dorne: narrated by Ellaria Sand (Indira Varma)
· The Fighting Pits of Meereen: narrated by Daario Naharis (Michiel Huisman)
· The River Rhoyne: narrated by Lord Varys (Conleth Hill)
· The Many-Faced God: narrated by Jaqen H’ghar (Tom Wlaschiha)
· Greyscale & The Stone Men: narrated by Qyburn (Anton Lesser)
· The Great Masters: narrated by Missandei (Nathalie Emmanuel)
· The Dance of Dragons: narrated by Shireen Baratheon (Kerry Ingram), Viserys Targaryen (Harry Lloyd), Robert Baratheon (Mark Addy), Catelyn Stark (Michelle Fairley), and Joffrey Baratheon (Jack Gleeson)
Full Histories and Lore list revealed too:
· The Seven-Pointed Star: narrated by The High Sparrow (Jonathan Pryce)
· The Faith Militant: narrated by The High Sparrow (Jonathan Pryce)
· Volantis: narrated by Lord Varys (Conleth Hill)
· Braavos: narrated by Tycho Nestoris (Mark Gatiss)
· The Faceless Men: narrated by Tycho Nestoris (Mark Gatiss)
· Winterfell: narrated by Roose Bolton (Michael McElhatton)
· The Lord Commanders: narrated by Ser Alliser Thorne (Owen Teale)
· Robert’s Rebellion: narrated by Barristan Selmy (Ian McElhinney)
· Dorne: narrated by Ellaria Sand (Indira Varma)
· The Fighting Pits of Meereen: narrated by Daario Naharis (Michiel Huisman)
· The River Rhoyne: narrated by Lord Varys (Conleth Hill)
· The Many-Faced God: narrated by Jaqen H’ghar (Tom Wlaschiha)
· Greyscale & The Stone Men: narrated by Qyburn (Anton Lesser)
· The Great Masters: narrated by Missandei (Nathalie Emmanuel)
· The Dance of Dragons: narrated by Shireen Baratheon (Kerry Ingram), Viserys Targaryen (Harry Lloyd), Robert Baratheon (Mark Addy), Catelyn Stark (Michelle Fairley), and Joffrey Baratheon (Jack Gleeson)
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I feel bad for him, but that whole thing is just ugh.
I don't think he gets the criticism. Bad things happen to the characters we love all the time in this series, it's not about that, it's about how said character ended up in such position, it didn't make sense, it was forced, and thus your conclusion as a viewer is that the show just wants to do shock value.
I also don't see Sansa with a knife stabbing Ramsay, I don't think she will ever pick up any weapon at all and I think that is great, and yes, obviously the wedding night was going to go awry, that is not the issue, the issue is having the wedding at all, or at least how it happened in the show. You cannot throw logic out of the window just because you want drama to happen, it will not work, specially when you were building a completely different character the season before.
I also don't see Sansa with a knife stabbing Ramsay, I don't think she will ever pick up any weapon at all and I think that is great, and yes, obviously the wedding night was going to go awry, that is not the issue, the issue is having the wedding at all, or at least how it happened in the show. You cannot throw logic out of the window just because you want drama to happen, it will not work, specially when you were building a completely different character the season before.
Please explain your reason for the bolded parts. Baelish rescued Sansa from Kings' Landing so he could use her to capture the North. The whole of season 3 (and ASOS) characters keep telling us Sansa is the Key to the North, the Tyrells want her, the Lannisters want her, Littlefinger steals her away.
It seemed perfectly reasonable she would be used to secure the North.
Peter has Sansa in the Vale and basically has all the power of the region since he's the new daddy of the young lord.
He abandons this plan and offers his greatest asset right into the hands of the Boltons, who already screwed over a Stark once. The writers really badly force the "the Boltons might rebel" plan.
Yabberwocky
Member
C'mooooooooon, Team Stannis!
thequickandthedead
Member
Is Stannis confirmed dead in the show?
The situation is different from the books in that the Vale Lords weren't plotting behind Lysa's back and they seem loyal to the son of their good lord Jon Arryn. He is benevolent and expects to be able to call upon the forces of the Vale without issue. Basically the show skips Harry the Heir, the Royces and all the Vale plotting.
By moving North it keeps the story tightly focussed instead of the sprawling mess of the last 2 books.
There is no "Boltons might rebel" plan. Baelish has entered into a pact with Roose because they both see the Lannister's and the Crown's power shrinking. Roose knowing the Northern lords hate him reaches out to Petyr in the Vale. Baelish is going to double cross him for killing Cat.
A fairly confident prediction: In the next book Sansa will go North when leaving the Vale and her true identity will be revealed to the Vale Lords
i believe so. I think there was some artwork with brienne and it was titled a beautiful death. plus i think its been confirmed otherwise too.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Their "plan" is poorly explained and its incredibly risky for both Littlefinger and Sansa even if they are not fully aware of how bad Ramsay is, these are the people that kill her entire family.
Because the plan to "secure the North" makes absolutely no sense.
Of course it is risky and of course Littlefinger wants the North. His ambition is to sit on the Iron Throne and rule Westeros. That is not going to happen without sticking his neck out a bit.
By having a sprawling story, the books don't force characters to fit clumsily into a place where they make no sense. Littlefinger has spies through the realm yet doesn't know who the Boltons are? That's busted logic.
Plus, beating down Sansa again destroys her development.
Hearing Cogman say "It happened in the books with another character" makes me think they don't undrstand what they're adapting.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
But putting such a large piece of his plan into the hands of an unknown facing a major battle that Littlefinger knows is coming and then getting the fuck out of there, is a bit much. Granted show Littlefinger is an idiot, but still, it seemed like a bad move.
He is never, ever going to rule Westeros and is a monstrous idiot if he thinks he can. Has he actually said so in the show?
Seriously, he will probably never rule any one of the Seven Kingdoms either.
Steelyuhas
Member
"I want everything, all there is" (or something like that)
He already effectively rules the Vale, and even if he doesn't want to attempt to conquer all seven kingdoms by force, there's precedent for the Vale and the North being allies forming a very strong powerbase (Robert's Rebellion, of course I'm not discounting the Baratheons themselves). I also don't think it's any accident from George that the North doesn't prevail in the War in Five Kings in part because they don't get that support from the Vale.
Let's not forget, that if Littlefinger can rally the North around Sansa, it would seem the Riverlords would sooner support Cat's daughter than any Southern forces.
RobotChant
Member
wrong thread.
Im sure he has ambitions of controlling things from behind the scenes. But he would absolutely NOT be accepted by anyone if he deposed any of the great Houses. He is not even worthy of marrying the daughter of an executed traitor. He'd have more swords in his back than Jon the moment he rose above his station.
His ambition seems to revolve around putting Sansa on the throne and he wouldn't sabotage it by trying to marry her.
Oldest Snake
Member
I actually think that's what they're gearing up for in Season 6 or 7.
Sansa will do to Littlefinger what he did to Lysa and what he sort-of told her to do to Ramsay.
Except that there are much better ways to get the North. Indeed, this plan actively makes that harder than it otherwise would be.
I think putting Sansa Stark in Winterfell and rallying people around her is a pretty good way to get the North. Yes Ramsay is a problem, but once word of her being there spread that problem could have easily been solved, just like he solved Lysa.
But that's not what he did, nor even what he intended, per his own explanations. He gave Sansa to people who will (and did) prevent her from doing any such thing, not that she even tried.
But that's exactly what he did. She was in Winterfell, and had she stayed there until after the war with Stannis things could have gone according to LF's plans. Roose would return to the Dreadfort eventually and word of Sansa would slowly spread around the North, and at that point LF could easily get rid of Ramsay.
RobotChant
Member
If Sansa gets pregnant with a Bolton baby, she becomes less important. The heir, especially if it's a male becomes the key player. This is what Tywin wanted, and Petyr is clever enough to know this. He removed her from such a situation, only to put her back into the same situation. It's a gamble with little payoff.
It only works if he's invested in the Boltons ruling the North. But the Boltons already have a relationship with the Lannisters and the Iron Throne. They wouldn't need him. Petyr has no blood connection to the Vale, South, or the North. Giving Sansa away, he loses access to a major chip and potential heir. He should be solidifying his grip on the power players, not giving them up.
It only works if he's invested in the Boltons ruling the North. But the Boltons already have a relationship with the Lannisters and the Iron Throne. They wouldn't need him. Petyr has no blood connection to the Vale, South, or the North. Giving Sansa away, he loses access to a major chip and potential heir. He should be solidifying his grip on the power players, not giving them up.
Er, no, Littlefinger is planning to invade the North and attack the winner of the Stannis v. Boltons battle, said winner being the one in possession of Sansa. Giving her to the Boltons when he did accomplishes nothing. All he needed to do was bring the Valemen north and call all Stark loyalists to Sansa's cause (i.e., what the book version is doing). Instead, he has jeopardized the life of the Stark he needs to rally and keep control of the North for no reason.
bengraven
Member
This.
I loved the ending of Stannis, despite the overwhelming hate on this page. The fact that Brienne, who finally fulfilled her duty to Renly after wandering aimlessly for years was the one to do it was poetic. The final line as you said is straight up Stannis and I hope it's his final line in the books as well. The fact that he was exhausted after giving the old college try for the bid as well as the sacrifices he made coming to head.
Stannis was fantastically acted.
100% agree with this. I had been rolling my eyes at the narrative decisions taken with Stannis throughout the last few episodes, but none of it was anything to do with Dillane. He and Michael McElhatton give two of the most understated and nuanced performances in the whole cast.
Then came that perfect last line. Wow.
bengraven
Member
Dillane took years of story and ended them with one epic facial expression and three words.
Fantastic actor.
Steelyuhas
Member
Agreed, they needed a few more episodes to cover the narrative ground they covered with Stannis. It all happened too fast and felt cheap/forced as a result. Stannis' end itself was super fitting though.
bengraven
Member
I feel like HBO already did something like this with Carnivale Season 2.
It actually became boring a few episodes in, characters are the complete opposite of what they were the first season and horribly written at that, and then suddenly you have one of the most epic, character-centric scenes on the show.
the tar and feathering/healing scene
I gained a better appreciation of Dillane after watching John Adams this year(I hadn't seen in much else).
I'm not sure if D&D realized what they had with him and his portrayal of Stannis until the last season. Could have been one of the driving forces for the show if they gave him as much love as they gave to Rory McCann.
I'm not sure if D&D realized what they had with him and his portrayal of Stannis until the last season. Could have been one of the driving forces for the show if they gave him as much love as they gave to Rory McCann.
We're going in circles here... but LF did not state that was his plan. I don't think that's his plan. If that is indeed his plan then I agree, it doesn't make sense.
Look at Lysa. She was forced to marry Arryn, then he died at her hands and she controls the Vale. That's what LF's plans with Sansa were. He puts her in Winterfell and she's one Ramsay death away from having control of the North. Sansa is only worth anything to him as long as she's in Winterfell and she can't do that hidden away in the Vale.
- Status