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[mandiller]

I'm pretty sure that has been a popular theory for years, that Arya would realize she's not no one, she's a Stark, and leave Braavos.

However, you cannot tell me that has executed well. After Episode 6 it took a fucking nosedive. She had the candle, she had Needle, she failed her mission and came up with a plan to ensure her survival. Okay, cool, whatever. Then Ep.7 she suddenly gets plot-induced stupidity, gets stabbed, multiple times, in the stomach, than magically heals in a day, and does fucking parkour through crowded streets while the Waifinator is on her tail, and only then does she remember "Oh wait, I had a plan all along."

And finally, Sexy Jesus with the terrible writing. "You are finally no one." Oh really? Are you even paying attention to anything that happened at all in the last few episodes? Or that she never threw away the sword you told her to throw away? It was done just so Arya could say she's Arya Stark, defiantly, because that's what the tv show needed.

Spoiler

Did I ever mention how much I love this thread? Thank you guys for this outlet for my annoyance.

I think you're totally right, except for this part. I felt that if Arya had said she was no one the Faceless Man would have killed her then and there. Surely, he would have known full well that Arya was not no one. Her saying that she was Arya was ok, because he's like "ok fine, off you go then. You've given me a death for my hall to fill your place."

Spoiler

Also, that waif is the worst trainee Faceless Man ever. What the hell. Psycho Arya-hating terminator....for no reason. How could she possibly be a fit assassin?

I liked the rest of the episode, but Arya's entire plotline is complete rubbish. Just kill her already.

 

[Apt101]

She was already amazing at telling a lie and playing a role that put in her position to kill, remember her bring Tywin's bff for awhile?

So much better in the books with it being Roose.

 

[Cromwell]

I'm betting they keep making the show and characters continue to do stuff. We don't really know the timing and plotting of his show arc. The table is more set now than it was last season.

They haven't done anything with Jaime for 2 seasons now. In the books him abandoning Cersei was such a massive moment built up for so long, yet here it hasn't been built up at all and if they try to play that card now it'll come off as totally unearned hack writing. So the only other explanation is they never intend to do that and don't care about Jaime as a character anymore, similar to how they didn't care about Stannis. I don't see how they can possibly salvage how badly he's been handled through S5 and S6.

Go back to my niece and help her win the battle for winterfell and be there by her side when she rules? Nah fuck that, I'll just go kill myself.

This too. Totally nonsensical.

The trial by combat is dead, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to clash eventually.

This is the episode where Jaime finally felt like he had a direction. Brienne's return makes him question himself and his honor for the first time since he reunited with Cersei. If we're to assume Qyburn was informing her of Wild Fire, I don't think we should ignore the obvious comparison between Cersei and the Mad King. This is a potentially much more impactful breaking point for Jaime than "oh, she fucked Lancel".

What direction? A fleeting friendship with Brienne barely scratches the surface of what leads to his breaking point with Cersei. I'm having a hard time seeing your point.

 

[studyguy]

He got the band back together again with Bronn! Also, maybe they thought it would shut the nerds up about forgetting Blackfish.

Yeah at least Bronn is back, true. Also I'm surprised they actually bothered with the Blackfish again at all. I would have expected them to do this all off camera.

 

[Lothar]

Go back to my niece and help her win the battle for winterfell and be there by her side when she rules? Nah fuck that, I'll just go kill myself.

lol. Imagine GRRM watching this episode.

 

[Turin]

This is the episode where Jaime finally felt like he had a direction. Brienne's return makes him question himself and his honor for the first time since he reunited with Cersei. If we're to assume Qyburn was informing her of Wild Fire, I don't think we should ignore the obvious comparison between Cersei and the Mad King. This is a potentially much more impactful breaking point for Jaime than "oh, she fucked Lancel".

He grew distant for more reasons than Lancel but yeah, this thought crossed my mind as well.

Jaime's dignity is frequently getting brought up and even the Blackfish's words and eventual death seemed to weigh on him(though that could have just been Nikolai's choice to play it that way).

Cersei undoing Jaime's proudest act of saving Kings Landing by blowing it up with the very wildfire Aerys was going to use would be some heavy shit.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I could have sworn The Waif was revealed to just be Jacquen last season or something.

 

[Sheroking]

lol. Imagine GRRM watching this episode.

George likely read the episode months ago. Do you honestly think they aren't in contact?

 

[Gigglepoo]

So, that's the last time we assume D&D have something clever planned, right?

 

[darkwing]

Go back to my niece and help her win the battle for winterfell and be there by her side when she rules? Nah fuck that, I'll just go kill myself.

offscreen

 

[studyguy]

We're gonna have to come back to this after Episode 10, but I think lots of people have EXTREMELY poor perception on what the episode was doing with Jaime.

What's the missed signal? His heart leading his honor by a string. Oh no look there goes Brienne and his honor floating away.

D&D have made plenty of moments where he could have reflected growth but no, instead he dug in his heels and became largely the same man he used to be sans smugness or hand. The arcs for the guy as of late have been less personal growth and more convenient fetch quests to get him out of Kings Landing while they move that plot along and railroad his earlier development.

Oh god these mobile ads are killing me.

 

[Lothar]

George likely read the episode months ago. Do you honestly think they aren't in contact?

Ok, then imagine him and the poor actors reading this episode.

 

[dabig2]

Hm

So Jamie is diverging from the book version quite a bit. Wasn't Jamies last chapter in teh books practically him giving up the love for his sister when she asked for him back?

In the show(Can we talk about the show here? Spoiler tag I suppose)

Spoiler

he seems content on loving Cersei

The show is having their cake and eating it too. They want the more honorable Jaime but also want him to keep his twincest love for his sister before shit goes down in KL. Helps that show Cersei is basically a saint compared to the book version. Also helps that Jaime gives less than a fuck about his knighthood in the show compared to the books, as seen when he tosses the white book away to fuck his sister.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Why was Arya so brazen last episode!? Where was Needle!?

 

[Sheroking]

They haven't done anything with Jaime for 2 seasons now. In the books him abandoning Cersei was such a massive moment built up for so long, yet here it hasn't been built up at all and if they try to play that card now it'll come off as totally unearned hack writing. So the only other explanation is they never intend to do that and don't care about Jaime as a character anymore, similar to how they didn't care about Stannis. I don't see how they can possibly salvage how badly he's been handled through S5 and S6.

What direction? A fleeting friendship with Brienne barely scratches the surface of what leads to his breaking point with Cersei. I'm having a hard time seeing your point.

You have a hard time seeing my point because you're not perceiving what you're watching very well.

Jaime's relationship with Brienne has always been at the heart of his redemption arc. Reuniting with her, being confronted about his honor. These are ways to get a character to contemplate his station and set-up for the inevitable falling out with Cersei.

Which will probably come when Cersei does what exactly what the Mad King was going to do. Unleashing Wild Fire on King's Landing.

 

[Turin]

They forfeited the chance to do Jaime's story right when they sent him to Dorne. I'll take anything at this point, late as it may be.

Or they could just kill him and add him to the same club as Stannis.

 

[TTG]

Raise your hand if you thought what's-his-face, the little dude that trained Arya all the way back in King's Landing, was going to jump out from an alley. I did for like a second there.

 

[Real Hero]

Whatever you think of other changes the jaime one is just insane. His arc in the books is universally considered to be great and one of the best bits of character work in the series. Like why mess with that? Changing plot points I get but just throwing away the point of the character?

 

[studyguy]

Raise your hand if you thought what's-his-face, the little dude that trained Arya all the way back in King's Landing, was going to jump out from an alley. I did for like a second there.

Surprise motherfuckers! Not today death!

Also by how they've treated Jaime I fully expect him to die sooner than most other characters.

 

[Nowy]

I was really excited for season 3 and on because of Jaime's arc. He went from one of my most disliked characters to one of my most liked. I couldn't wait for my show only friends to experience his story. But once he got back to King's Landing, and his journey with Brienne was finished, he reverted back to his old self. I just don't get it.

 

[TTG]

Whatever you think of other changes the jaime one is just insane. His arc in the books is universally considered to be great and one of the best bits of character work in the series. Like why mess with that? Changing plot points I get but just throwing away the point of the character?

Like I said, you're misreading that scene. He is more conflicted than that. He was playing the bad guy because that's all that Tully guy sees in him.

Surprise motherfuckers! Not today death!

His death was ambiguous, they're in Braavos. I thought, what the hell? Maybe Arya knocks over his oranges and it's on. Sansa's got Brienne after all. Now I suppose Arya has to reunite with Clegane to kick some ass.

 

[Cromwell]

You have a hard time seeing my point because you're not perceiving what you're watching very well.

Jaime's relationship with Brienne has always been at the heart of his redemption arc. Reuniting with her, being confronted about his honor. These are ways to get a character to contemplate his station and set-up for the inevitable falling out with Cersei.

Which will probably come when Cersei does what exactly what the Mad King was going to do. Unleashing Wild Fire on King's Landing.

I perceive what I'm watching just fine. They literally only just started his breaking point arc that you're talking about with tonight's episode, and spent the last 16 or so episodes doing fuck all with him. That's my point. They're starting it so late that it can only be seen as completely incompetent writing. There was a meaningful path going on in S4, and then they thew it out and sent him back to square 1 until tonight and even that's honestly debatable.

 

[Brakke]

Go back to my niece and help her win the battle for winterfell and be there by her side when she rules? Nah fuck that, I'll just go kill myself.

Jaime explained this out loud, directly, in this very episode.

The Blackfish knows that Edmure is a sniveling shit (as Edmure proved); see also Edmure failing to shoot Hoster's funeral boat. The Blackfish is one of like three dudes left from his generation in a world going to hell.

He doesn't know his niece or the North. If dude couldn't hold his home, he wanted to die fighting.

 

[Turin]

Whatever you think of other changes the jaime one is just insane. His arc in the books is universally considered to be great and one of the best bits of character work in the series. Like why mess with that? Changing plot points I get but just throwing away the point of the character?

I'm pretty sure a lot of it had to do with D&D wanting to service their version of Cersei(who did get talked down to on screen a lot by both Tyrion and Tywin). I don't think they needed to weaken one character for the other.

They also seem to have been doing this to some extent with Jon and Sansa this year.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Whatever you think of other changes the jaime one is just insane. His arc in the books is universally considered to be great and one of the best bits of character work in the series. Like why mess with that? Changing plot points I get but just throwing away the point of the character?

His arc also needs Selmy given that the two travel an opposite path. Oops!

 

[studyguy]

Anyway I can see Cersei blowing up Kings Landing as the Mad King did and Jaime stabbing her to stop it as he did with the Mad King.

Hell they'll probably have him sitting on the iron throne as he gets engulfed with flames to boot. It's like right there. Hell she'll likely burn Tommenn on accident that too, watch.

 

[Apt101]

I wouldn't say D&D don't care about Jaime. I think, rather, they're just prolonging his story so his eventual 180 will involve Brienne and come at a more crucial moment.

I am giving D&D way more credit than they deserve, I realize this, but I am holding out hope.

 

[Lothar]

Like I said, you're misreading that scene. He is more conflicted than that. He was playing the bad guy because that's all that Tully guy sees in him.

Not really. He really does love his sister and wants to get back to her quickly. He was being sincere when he talked about Cersei because that's the same thing he said to her before he left. He didn't want to leave her side.

How can his primary motivation still be to fuck his sister and anyone think he has had good development?

 

[Sheroking]

I perceive what I'm watching just fine. They literally only just started his breaking point arc that you're talking about with tonight's episode, and spent the last 16 or so episodes doing fuck all with him. That's my point. They're starting it so late that it can only be seen as completely incompetent writing. There was a meaningful path going on in S4, and then they thew it out and sent him back to square 1 until tonight and even that's honestly debatable.

There's no real excuse for spinning their wheels for three seasons here, but that wasn't your criticism. You said you didn't see any direction for Jaime.

I feel like it's beyond obvious what they're doing here. Last night's episode made him question some things just as Cersei is prepared to use Wild Fire in King's Landing. This is some anvil shit.

 

[TTG]

Not really. He really does love his sister and wants to get back to her quickly. He was being sincere when he talked about Cersei because that's the same thing he said to her before he left. He didn't want to leave her side.

How can his primary motivation still be to fuck his sister and anyone think he has had good development?

The key word being conflicted. I don't even know if he was about to execute Blackfish, probably not.

 

[Pyramid head]

I perceive what I'm watching just fine. They literally only just started his breaking point arc that you're talking about with tonight's episode, and spent the last 16 or so episodes doing fuck all with him. That's my point. They're starting it so late that it can only be seen as completely incompetent writing. There was a meaningful path going on in S4, and then they thew it out and sent him back to square 1 until tonight and even that's honestly debatable.

Any changes to Jaime's character at this point just comes across as desparate hack writing to struggle to get Jaime back to where he would have been 2 seasons ago had they not decided to to fundamentally fuck up both him and Cersei for no good reason.

 

[Kuroyume]

I kinda liked that episode mainly because of the character interactions. Pod and Bronn. Brienne and Jaimie. Jaimie and Edmure. Tyrion, Grey Worm, and Missandei. Also liked Robert Strong's Mortal Kombat-like kill. And the Hound stuff was cool.

That said, it was disappointing plot-wise. What was the result of the castle seige? I was hoping that Edmure would give them his word, and then slaughter them as they were making their way over the bridge. Give me something. I just don't fucking get Edmure at all. I understand he's chickenshit but after that talk with Jaimie I was hoping he had grown so bitter that he would get some kind of revenge. The final sequence with Arya was also wonderful, but I don't get the point of that arc either. What's the payoff? Did she ever learn how to steal a face? They she ever learn how to warg (as she does in the books)? No. So, what was the point of that for her? I guess that she can fight in the dark now? Ok

 

[Henkka]

So I guess the waif never trained while blinded? Whatever. What a stupid thing.

 

[emag]

Why was Arya so brazen last episode!? Where was Needle!?

She was drawing out the Waif. Note that the old lady face that the Waif takes on last episode is one that Arya is familiar with from last season and that Arya hides out at an obvious location. Note also that Arya leads the Waif back to her lair, where she has her sword (and training that the Waif is unfamiliar with) and the advantage of darkness. Arya even leaves a bloody handprint to spring the trap. All according to keikkaku.

The only wrinkle is Arya getting as badly stabbed as she does. I expect that's the writers/director wanting a cliffhanger for last episode and going over the top.

 

[Brakke]

So I guess the waif never trained while blinded? Whatever. What a stupid thing.

Arya was blinded as punishment for killing Meryn Trant. There's no reason to think that every Faceless Man goes through the same ordeal.

 

[Gunslinger]

so what you think Jon snows chances of winning on the next episode? I think Jaime Lannister is gonna help him out. Its going to be like LoTR style. Jon Snows army about to lose then Jaime Lannister going to show out of nowhere and win the battle for him. Watch I guarantee this will happen next week.

 

[Saya]

so what you think Jon snows chances of winning on the next episode? I think Jaime Lannister is gonna help him out. Its going to be like LoTR style. Jon Snows army about to lose then Jaime Lannister going to show out of nowhere and win the battle for him. Watch I guarantee this will happen next week.

Jaime? No, I think it will be Littlefinger appearing out of nowhere to turn the tide of the battle.

 

[Ghost]

so what you think Jon snows chances of winning on the next episode? I think Jaime Lannister is gonna help him out. Its going to be like LoTR style. Jon Snows army about to lose then Jaime Lannister going to show out of nowhere and win the battle for him. Watch I guarantee this will happen next week.

Na it's going to be Littlefinger that shows up, that was the letter Sansa was writing last week.

 

[Gunslinger]

Jaime? No, I think it will be Littlefinger appearing out of nowhere to turn the tide of the battle.

I was thinking Jaime because he can't let his homegirl Brienne die. He saw her escaping and knows where she is going.

 

[Cromwell]

so what you think Jon snows chances of winning on the next episode? I think Jaime Lannister is gonna help him out. Its going to be like LoTR style. Jon Snows army about to lose then Jaime Lannister going to show out of nowhere and win the battle for him. Watch I guarantee this will happen next week.

Nah, Littlefinger is gonna ride in Gandalf at Helm's Deep style. The whole things seems super telegraphed going in, I'd be amazed if there's any legit surprises.

 

[Gunslinger]

Nah, Littlefinger is gonna ride in Gandalf at Helm's Deep style. The whole things seems super telegraphed going in, I'd be amazed if there's any legit surprises.

Na it's going to be Littlefinger that shows up, that was the letter Sansa was writing last week.

Jaime? No, I think it will be Littlefinger appearing out of nowhere to turn the tide of the battle.

You are probably right that it's going to be littlefinger. Looks like the entire next episode will be that battle of the wall style. All one hour dedicated to one story. I am also curious to see how will they finish the Kings Landing Story arc. As for the Mereen seige battle its quite clear now that the dragons will own those ships lol.

 

[Speevy]

Nah, Littlefinger is gonna ride in Gandalf at Helm's Deep style. The whole things seems super telegraphed going in, I'd be amazed if there's any legit surprises.

Davos with his onion bombs. They basically work like the children of the forest grenades except they make the Boltons cry.

 

[jdstorm]

Jaime? No, I think it will be Littlefinger appearing out of nowhere to turn the tide of the battle.

Well technically Sansa is a Lannister right... Sansa Lannister Wife of Tyrion, and Jamie did promise to return Sansa and Arya safely to winterfell so it isn't out of the question. Plus if Brieanne and Pod can get North in time for the battle. Jamie should have enough time to get the Lannister Army there.

Keep in mind there is a shortcut through where Howland Reed is from if they want to avoid the Twins. (Or Arya might just murder Walder Frey)

edit; in the books Sansa is still in the Eyrie and poised to marry Robyn Aryn's replacement as Lord. So the Eyrie Army showing up to fight the boltons is close to 100% guarenteed in the books.

As for The whole TPTWP prophesy. A key part of the lore is that AA reborn is in love and is forced to kill the person that they love to power the magic sword. That essentially leaves the Options as Jamie, Sam, Sir Friendzone or Dario.

 

[Apt101]

Nah, Littlefinger is gonna ride in Gandalf at Helm's Deep style. The whole things seems super telegraphed going in, I'd be amazed if there's any legit surprises.

Yea, I am guessing the Starks lose terribly and Baelish comes to the rescue, expecting Sansa to be grateful. It will be in service to some story beat in which she kills him and surpasses her mother.

I think Jon Snow is going to be a bitch from here on out (though still an effective warrior when he is forced to fight) until he meets Dany. It seems the entire show is about uniting them - at least to me. They both made bad decisions but still managed to rally people behind them. They now both have something to fear. "Song of Ice and Fire". And they're both the best equipped to confront the real threat. All other stories will be ancillary.

 

[Speevy]

I've always found it weird that they refer to entire armies comprised of 3 to a dozen or more house-sworn soldiers by one house's names.

Like every Lannister soldier is "The Lannisters", except if every actual Lannister died, then none of the soldiers would be "The Lannisters".

 

[Nodnol]

I loved bits of this week's episode, and then was left scratching my head at others.

Bits I liked:

- The Hound
- Bronn
- Good character moments between Jaime, Bronn, Pod, Brienne, Edmure, Blackfish.
- Beric is alive still! Probably no LSH (I still maintain her quest for vengeance will be handled by other characters, if not in motive but certainly in outcome).
- The Mountain


Bits I scratched my head:

- Arya vs T-1Waif. I can by the running, and jumping, but the slide down the steps, ON HER BELLY, was eye-rollingly bad. I would have bought that scene had Arya been a little bit more calculating, and lead the Waif to her den purposely, rather than being backed into a corner. Arya was always coming back to Westeros IMO, and I get what they are showing us in terms of her learning, rebuilding her identity (she hasn't been Arya Stark of Winterfell since she saw her dad die), but it just seems...messy. Arya's plot took a nosedive the second she left Westeros, so let's hope she picks up where she left off.

- Blackfish's death. Off screen!? Really? I get budget and all, but still, come on. Totally underdeveloped.

The ok/good/whatever

- Dany returning. Thought this was fine. Next week looks expensive, so elaborate Drogon shot probably wasn't a priority. Thought it was pretty badass.

- CLEGANEBOWL CANCELLED. Called it; I said weeks ago, that the High Sparrow would never allow it to be settled by Trial by Combat, because he knows he'll lose. I'm excited to see what Cersei does, backed into a corner.

- The Seige of Mereen. Tyrion probably knew it was a short term fix, but probably not this short term. I expected the masters to return in force, so this wasn't unexpected at all. What does Tyrion learn though? That jokes and diplomacy don't always cut it?

- Brienne. I wonder where she's going. Maybe she runs into the BwB? And then together, they infiltrate the Twins....that's my fan-fic head on anyway. If she runs down to Riverun, accomplishes nothing, and then runs back up to Winterfell without anything else happening, then it was pointless. I'm hoping it wasn't.

Weaker episode this week, but sill enjoyable. Roll on next week. I fully expect Gandalf (Littlefinger) to arrive just at the right time with the Riders of Rohan (Knights of the Vale).

 

[Speevy]

Next week looks like a best in television history battle. I mean holy shit, have you seen that preview?

 

[Gunslinger]

I think by end of this season or maybe by first half of next season they will wrap up all the human drama and will focus towards to the final conflict of this series. Humans vs Whitewalker. They have been hyping up these whitewalkers for 6 seaons now. I think its about time the showmakers turn their attention towards them fulltime.

 

[Cromwell]

Next week looks like a best in television history battle. I mean holy shit, have you seen that preview?

Yeah, it looks like they spared no expense. Big time LotR vibes, they scrounged on the budget in the slow first half of the season for this blowout.

Also, I think Wun Wun is finally going to die while taking down a shitload of men.

 

[Apt101]

I think by end of this season or maybe by first half of next season they will wrap up all the human drama and will focus towards to the final conflict of this series. Humans vs Whitewalker. They have been hyping up these whitewalkers for 6 seaons now. I think its about time the showmakers turn their attention towards them fulltime.

Calling it now: Ep 10 is the Greyjoys finishing off the "Masters" from behind. Plenty of foreshadowing for it.

Jon and Dany will learn of one another.

Varys will do something that grants more power to Cersei.