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[mackaveli]

I know everyone says Tower of Joy is the final scene of the episode etc., but I think it will be Jon learning of his parentage in the crypts.

I don't see the big impact if Bran finds out through a vision and what that does for the story. I think the scene will just show Lyanna say promise me Ned and maybe a baby cry or something and then it will cut to Jon in the crypts with Sansa burying RIckon. And somehow Jon will find something that shows his true parentage and it ends. Having the tower of joy scene spelt out for the audience and Bran I don't see how it progresses the story any further unless it's Jon who finds out directly. Bran would have to go and hope he finds Jon to relay the message and even then that scene between Bran and Jon I think would be awkward.

The reason I think this as well is because what is Jon's storyline for season 7 be? I think the wall falls in season 7 premiere and Jon will know he is a Targ and that word is Dany is going to Kings Landing for the throne. Jon will then realize that he needs to recruit his aunt's help to fight the true battle and along his way going south he will pick up allies for the fight such as Arya, and perhaps Jaime and others.

I'm probably dead wrong and what not but I just want to have the post just in case I am right so I can show my bro that I was right because he thinks I am wrong. And I probably am.

 

[mantidor]

Ramsay was keeping Rickon alive to kill him in front of them. But if Jon had known about the Vale Army, he never would have marched on Winterfell to begin with. Jon would have had a winning army backing him, and might not have acted so rashly.

Sansa is either an idiot, or she wanted him to die in the battle.

We have no indication Sansa knew she had the Vale army, we only know she asked. She is begging Jon to wait. I don't see the problem with her acts.

Meh, this show is better when the good guys all lose. Despite being beautifully shot, I thought the battle itself was boring and lacked any real tension or drama.

Even knowing Jon was winning that scene when he almost got buried alive was all sorts of claustrophobic and tense, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Fuzzy]

Dany and Yara are totally gonna hook up, right? They're finally gonna give us the lesbian scene from ASoS?

 

[Saya]

The last time a stark relied on little fingers help it didn't go so well. If neither Jon or Sansa trust Littlefinger, why would they plan a battle Stratergy that includes his help. Their plan was stupid. Jon is no Rob on the battlefield. But criticising the Starks for not trusting Littlefinger is dumb

I think the issue is that Sansa should've at least mentioned that she send a raven to the Vale to Jon. After he knows about it, he would probably still continue to battle, but he could take into account the possibility of reinforcements arriving. It's about trust between Sansa and Jon.

 

[Sai-kun]

lmao....that was so horrible

literally Dany's plot was the best part about the episode

Edit: the shot of Davos standing over the burnt wood with the sky in the background WHEW legend

 

[thefro]

That was really satisfying.

I agree that I didn't buy the giant getting trapped by the phalanx either and that the writing could have been better in a couple other spots, but that was a really well-directed episode.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

I don't know how you can say the writers have been rushing things based on this episode. Future book spoilers:

Spoiler

Hasn't GRRM admitted that the Battle for Winter and the Battle of Meereen happen very early in TWOW?

 

[Talon]

I have a hard time believing that somebody could have watched the crush and not felt stressed out or at least troubled.

I guess if you're dicking around on your phone and watching.

 

[NimbusD]

The fact that the visuals are so amazing and the writing is so bad just makes me really want to see how this all goes in the books. I'm sure GRRM's version of events will make a lot more sense and I'm very curious to see how he does it.

Prior to this season I feared that getting spoiled would deter my interest the books, but the opposite has happened thanks to the shitty writing.

lol yeah I was thinking the same thing during this episode. It's like an ad for the books, a preview of what's to come without telling you EXACTLY what and how it is.

Like, I really doubt that Roose goes out like that, and he probably has a bigger part to play in this battle, the red woman won't just sit around a sulk and do nothing, I even somewhat question if stannis dies in the books, at least as stupidly as he did in the show.

Honestly every time I see someone die in the show, I think it's either to cut CGI costs (wolves, giant, etc) or to cut down on the amt of characters they have to write for (oberyn, et al)

Then something will happen, like oh the dragons randomly broke out of their cage they've been in for two seasons, just in time! And I think, oh, well the books would explain why and how that happened (if that even happened). Or Dany is just like, okay with Tyrion's running of Mereen, when game of thrones is really meant to have every action have a reaction and not just a long stare and a "okay, we cool, what next?"

We're basically watching cliff notes after a game of telephone.

 

[Turin]

Get Sapochnik to direct as many episodes as possible.

 

[Eidan]

We are truly the worst fans in the history of television.

This is the most accurate thing I've seen in this garbage fire of a thread.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Meh, this show is better when the good guys all lose. Despite being beautifully shot, I thought the battle itself was boring and lacked any real tension or drama.

Because the battle didn't matter, it was just a setup for Baelish to come in later for an asspull victory we're apparently supposed to care about. Jon walked into a stupid trap and yet we knew the whole time that Ramsay wasn't going to win. So like everything that happens in this show, it was full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. These people need to learn how to build up tension by actually planting the seeds (maybe make the battle tactics matter even a little bit?), you can't just reap shit that hasn't even been planted.

I agree with the people that thought Mereen was better, bastardbowl fell completely flat for me.

 

[Geist-]

I feel like I'm living in a personal bizarro world. I thought Meereen was actually good and the North kinda shitty. Jon's character arc has been completely fucked in order to redeem Sansa. The Jon we saw at the end of last season would not have taken the Rickon bait, especially after Sansa's warning. His character had gotten to the point where he was ready to see the bigger picture. You can say death changed him sure but I don't feel that's valid. While Sansa's arc needed to get back on track Jon did not need to be sacrificed in order to do so. It's poor writing and I'm quite disappointed. Now LF looks like the big hero and Jon is the moron who let emotions take hold and sacrificed needless amounts of his own men. Why would anyone follow Jon after this disaster? The way the episode was shot (which was excellent) just reinforced that to me. Jon led his men to slaughter and got lucky.

Meanwhile Dany actually seems to have come into her own, and her scenes with Theon/Yara were some of my favorites of the season. Having those three and Tyrion together for the immediate future will make for some interesting material I think.

I agree with everything said here. Apparently, D&D can't write a male Stark that actually thinks about what he's doing before getting a ton of their men killed for no real reason.

Dany's parts on the otherhand are some of the best this season and the Greyjoy's are finally interesting to watch.

That said, the battles did have great production value, even if I don't understand how the bodies could realistically be stacked that high...

 

[Speevy]

I think that a lot of people read spoilers on the internet, and that more than anything took away from your enjoyment.

I don't see how just blind watching you could have seen Littlefinger coming at least not without discussing it on the internet or watching the prior episodes several times.

Face it. Spoilers eat this show alive. It's why this thread looks like a redacted document from the CIA.

 

[DrForester]

We have no indication Sansa knew she had the Vale army, we only know she asked. She is begging Jon to wait. I don't see the problem with her acts.

She went to meet them.

 

[Talon]

She went to meet them.

She was at the encampment with Mel and the other lords. Of course the Knights first came to the encampment.

 

[PFD]

I will be amazed if we don't get

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart

next week.

2 years late bro, not gonna happen

 

[Dysun]

I think that a lot of people read spoilers on the internet, and that more than anything took away from your enjoyment.

I don't see how just blind watching you could have seen Littlefinger coming at least not without discussing it on the internet or watching the prior episodes several times.

Face it. Spoilers eat this show alive. It's why this thread looks like a redacted document from the CIA.

Littlefinger offered her help and she wrote a letter on the eve of the battle, this isn't high level stuff here

 

[mcfrank]

You guys are so hard to please. That was one of the all time best episodes of television.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Meh, this show is better when the good guys all lose. Despite being beautifully shot, I thought the battle itself was boring and lacked any real tension or drama.

That shit was getting old. I said it in the other thread, but the deaths and betrayals have been so silly and one-note for some time now. It was making me hate the show tbh. I'm fine with the good guys taking a win for a change.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I think that a lot of people read spoilers on the internet, and that more than anything took away from your enjoyment.

I don't see how just blind watching you could have seen Littlefinger coming at least not without discussing it on the internet or watching the prior episodes several times.

Face it. Spoilers eat this show alive. It's why this thread looks like a redacted document from the CIA.

1/3 of the stuff they gave Sansa to do this season is telegraph her inevitably calling Baelish for a favour, anyone could have put it together.

 

[Sai-kun]

Because the battle didn't matter, it was just a setup for Baelish to come in later for an asspull victory we're apparently supposed to care about. Jon walked into a stupid trap and yet we knew the whole time that Ramsay wasn't going to win. So like everything that happens in this show, it was full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. These people need to learn how to build up tension by actually planting the seeds (maybe make the battle tactics matter even a little bit?), you can't just reap shit that hasn't even been planted.

I agree with the people that thought Mereen was better, bastardbowl fell completely flat for me.

I kind of actively wanted Jon and crew to die towards the end.

I fucking howled when Davos rushed in with all the archers. Like, girl, WHAT?

 

[SargerusBR]

I think that a lot of people read spoilers on the internet, and that more than anything took away from your enjoyment.

I don't see how just blind watching you could have seen Littlefinger coming at least not without discussing it on the internet or watching the prior episodes several times.

Face it. Spoilers eat this show alive. It's why this thread looks like a redacted document from the CIA.

I disagree to an extent, prior episodes were teasing Littlefinger and the KOTV showing up.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Remember when people argued Jon was changed after being resurrected? That he was meek and unsure now?

 

[Eidan]

You guys are so hard to please. That was one of the all time best episodes of television.

The people in this thread are a lost cause. Leave them to their ramblings and hopes for books that will never come.

 

[belvedere]

Life must be a joy for you many of you guys.

 

[Speevy]

Littlefinger offered her help and she wrote a letter on the eve of the battle, this isn't high level stuff here

The eve of the battle was in this episode. Littlefinger offered help in a very early episode, and wrote a letter in episode 7, but a casual watcher could have just assumed she was writing another northern lord.

It's not high level stuff, but people are being fucking disingenuous when they pretend that all these leaks haven't crept into your anticipation for certain scenes. People have been talking about certain events for next week long before there was any buildup on the show.

 

[Geist-]

The people in this thread are a lost cause. Leave them to their ramblings and hopes for books that will never come.

Doesn't have to be based on the books. I'd be fine without the stupid writing (and I mean that in both the characters act stupidly and the plot doesn't make sense).

 

[fallengorn]

I don't see how just blind watching you could have seen Littlefinger coming at least not without discussing it on the internet or watching the prior episodes several times.

Or watched The Two Towers... or Return of the King.

As soon as Littlefinger said they were at Mount Cailin it was plainly obvious he was going to bail out Jon's outnumbered army.

 

[hipsterpants]

can we all just take a moment to appreciate that dany has officially gone full crazy?

"crucify them all" lol

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I kind of actively wanted Jon and crew to die towards the end.

I fucking howled when Davos rushed in with all the archers. Like, girl, WHAT?

Exactly this, on both counts. It feels like these guys just have a superficial understanding of the notes they need to hit for some bombastic fantasy epic, and no clue about how they actually work or what they need to do to get there in a satisfying way.

 

[Speevy]

can we all just take a moment to appreciate that dany has officially gone full crazy?

"crucify them all" lol

I would enjoy a scene in which Missandei and Grey Worm try to talk some sense into her and she has them barbecued.

 

[Eidan]

Doesn't have to be based on the books. I'd be fine without the stupid writing (and I mean that in both the characters act stupidly and the plot doesn't make sense).

In 20XX, GRRM will give you what you want. I'm sure of it.

 

[Kusagari]

The eve of the battle was in this episode. Littlefinger offered help in a very early episode, and wrote a letter in episode 7, but a casual watcher could have just assumed she was writing another northern lord.

It's not high level stuff, but people are being fucking disingenuous when they pretend that all these leaks haven't crept into your anticipation for certain scenes. People have been talking about certain events for next week long before there was any buildup on the show.

They tried every major northern lord. Writing to some small ass house wouldn't have changed anything. Littlefinger was the only thing that made sense.

 

[Discotheque]

Fun as hell episode once it moved on from that corny dragon siege. Particularly liked the scene that followed jon from behind throughout the chaos

Gotta say though Ramin Djawadi needs to gtfo already with his sleeping ass. How do you phone in your "rohirrim" moment that we all knew was coming. He literally dulled littlefingers arrival. Dude's been on autopilot with the music for a while now. His warcraft soundtrack sucked too

 

[Dysun]

The eve of the battle was in this episode. Littlefinger offered help in a very early episode, and wrote a letter in episode 7, but a casual watcher could have just assumed she was writing another northern lord.

It's not high level stuff, but people are being fucking disingenuous when they pretend that all these leaks haven't crept into your anticipation for certain scenes. People have been talking about certain events for next week long before there was any buildup on the show.

The only thing disingenuous here is people thinking that all audience watchers are simpletons that can't put 2+2 together. If you don't think that was telegraphed than we'll have to agree to disagree. I never read any spoilers and still saw it a mile away, but I read the books and have seen the exact same battle played out on the screen three times now. So what do I know

 

[mantidor]

Remember when people argued Jon was changed after being resurrected? That he was meek and unsure now?

Well he is far more violent now.

The people in this thread are a lost cause. Leave them to their ramblings and hopes for books that will never come.

lol have you seen the other thread? it's worse!

Having every battle in this show end with a surprise army from nowhere is lame, I admit, but the episode was very well put together. Would watch again.

 

[Speevy]

So based on my own tuition, is Euron Quentyn or is he Quentyn?

 

[dabig2]

The people in this thread are a lost cause. Leave them to their ramblings and hopes for books that will never come.

You spend more time bitching about the posters here than actually discussing the show. There's hate watching a show and then there's hate watching an online thread on a forum. Aren't you bored yet?

 

[Nowy]

The battle was brilliantly shot and was just incredible, but I just didn't feel any tension with it. I knew Jon's army would be on the verge of defeat when the Knights of the Vale came in and rescued them. Its like every big battle in this show plays out the same. The Battle of the Blackwater, Battle of Castle Black, and the Bastard Bowl all use the same trope with another army coming in at the last minute and saving the day. It was still a good episode I just wish they didn't go back to the well for a third time.

 

[Speevy]

The only thing disingenuous here is people thinking that all audience watchers are simpletons that can't put 2+2 together. If you don't think that was telegraphed than we'll have to agree to disagree. I never read any spoilers and still saw it a mile away, but I read the books and have seen the exact same battle played out on the screen three times now. So what do I know

I don't think people are simpletons, but I feel like with the matter-of-fact way the good guys are killed off over and over, and with the way Ramsay just rolled over Stannis last year, people would generally find this battle exciting.

I enjoyed it and I knew every single thing that would happen, but I'm willing to admit that. Many people would not. That['s all I'm saying.

 

[ryseing]

Doesn't have to be based on the books. I'd be fine without the stupid writing (and I mean that in both the characters act stupidly and the plot doesn't make sense).

.

While I care about the books I'm at the point where I'm judging the show as the show. The writing has been piss poor the past few seasons with only a few exceptions. The show does spectacle better than anything else on television but I wish there was some substance behind it.

Am I going to continue to watch? Sure. But there's nothing wrong with wanting something to live up to its immense potential.

 

[Chase17]

Just watched the episode. Thought it was great, the scene with Jon getting crushed was really hard for me to watch. The way they cut it made me really anxious (just to be clear, this was clearly intentional not upset about it).Although I still find it silly that Sansa wouldn't just tell Jon about the Vale

Anyways it was nice to see the not drogons sort of do stuff. Also the Davos scenes should be really interesting next week.

 

[Eidan]

You spend more time bitching about the posters here than actually discussing the show. There's hate watching a show and then there's hate watching an online thread on a forum. Aren't you bored yet?

I do most of my discussing of the show in the other thread. This thread lost most of its value when there were no longer books to do 1:1 comparisons of and say "See! This was so much better!" It's really just a den of purists who hate watch something they know they'll never be satisfied with, and find comfort in complaining with others of the same sort. A safe place if you will.

But, I'll add value and say it was a GREAT episode. Amazingly shot, incredibly tense, and that ending...just delicious. 10/10, would watch again.

 

[dabig2]

The eve of the battle was in this episode. Littlefinger offered help in a very early episode, and wrote a letter in episode 7, but a casual watcher could have just assumed she was writing another northern lord.

No one who is discussing this show in depth in this thread or even in the unsulled thread are casual watchers. The show telegraphed LF all season, especially after we find out that the North doesn't remember and that there is no Northern conspiracy. There was literally only 1 way for that battle to end, unless you think even a casual watcher would assume that Jon and co. would all die 2 seasons before the show ends.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

.

While I care about the books I'm at the point where I'm judging the show as the show. The writing has been piss poor the past few seasons with only a few exceptions. The show does spectacle better than anything else on television but I wish there was some substance behind it.

Exactly. I'm not a big enough fan of the books to be a book purist, but I think it presents a pretty big writing problem when so many of the things that happen in this show feel completely unearned. Common sense says you have to actually set the dominoes up before you knock them down.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I'm happy with the fan fiction. But I hope they don't stray too far. Too late probably

 

[Nesotenso]

I have a feeling that Rickon doesn't die in the books.

 

[Discotheque]

.

While I care about the books I'm at the point where I'm judging the show as the show. The writing has been piss poor the past few seasons with only a few exceptions. The show does spectacle better than anything else on television but I wish there was some substance behind it.

Am I going to continue to watch? Sure. But there's nothing wrong with wanting something to live up to its immense potential.

People should have seen this coming years ago when the troy writers were announced as the showrunners. The less concrete book material they have to work with the more suspect the writing became

It never stopped being entertaining though so it has that going for it for sure. Although last season definitely was pushing it.

 

[Speevy]

No one who is discussing this show in depth in this thread or even in the unsulled thread are casual watchers. The show telegraphed LF all season, especially after we find out that the North doesn't remember and that there is no Northern conspiracy. There was literally only 1 way for that battle to end, unless you think even a casual watcher would assume that Jon and co. would all die 2 seasons before the show ends.

In the movie Braveheart, I knew William Wallace would not die in the very first battle, but I still enjoyed it.

Sometimes you have to give people credit for things besides plotting. There aren't other houses of thousands of men who would support the Stark claim, so it's the Vale. Got it. But it's still an exciting enough revelation for fans of this show, and it was very entertaining to see.