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[Lord Couture]

The story itself is really not that different.

Sand Snakes pissed at Prince Doran for doing nothing about Oberyons death, Myceralla gets hurt.

This could no doubt escalate further in the next book, maybe Jaime will even go to Dorne when he learns of Mycerallas injuries.

There's a massive difference between intentionally sneaking into a boat to kill your cousin and getting a young girl hurt because you trusted a shady person with your dumb plans. And if/when Doran's line of succession dies in the books, you can be sure no one in Dorne would let the Sand Snakes control their kingdom. The Yronwood would take over. This is not happening in the show.

Book Jaime is lost in the Riverlands, in captivity. No one has seen him for weeks. I seriously doubt he ever learns about Myrcella's injuries. He's not going to Dorne.

So, you seriously cannont see how different the story is?

 

[Paganmoon]

Jon actually being dead would be the most surprising twist for sure.
Also I'd have to imagine the script for the rest of the season if they use him in more than the first episode would be

"Look dead"

Easiest paycheck ever.

Best acting he's done all series!

I actually don't see the issue some have with Kit's acting.

 

[studyguy]

I imagine this is insanely hard. I mean, it's not just not moving (try it, you'll notice you itch everywhere). It's not moving your eyes beneath your eyelids, not breathing while the camera is on you, not emoting to anything going around of you (you can't see shit, but you'll hear and sense things moving about you).

It's what I do every day at work, ayyy.

Also I'd be bummed if he was actually dead though.

 

[Patriots7]

Oh my word.
Well after the shit that was Sansa's storyline in Season 5, I realized there's nothing dumber that D&D could shoehorn in that would shock me.

Getting revenge for your lover by killing his brother and nephew, essentially ending the Dornish royal family? Lol this show is terrible.

 

[Psychoward]

I do think Jon comes back but I find it odd how confident the show watchers are in that theory. I can only assume a lot of book readers throughout the internet not so subtly hinted at the theory. I mean without tower of joy and LSH it's pretty suspicious that so many supposed show only consumers are that confident Jon comes back.

 

[JustSomeone]

I do think Jon comes back but I find it odd how confident the show watchers are in that theory. I can only assume a lot of book readers throughout the internet not so subtly hinted at the theory. I mean without tower of joy and LSH it's pretty suspicious that so many supposed show only consumers are that confident Jon comes back.

I have read the books and i'm confident he is not coming back

 

[studyguy]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

 

[shanshan310]

I do think Jon comes back but I find it odd how confident the show watchers are in that theory. I can only assume a lot of book readers throughout the internet not so subtly hinted at the theory. I mean without tower of joy and LSH it's pretty suspicious that so many supposed show only consumers are that confident Jon comes back.

It's really funny talking to show watchers who have gone online for Jon-dying relief. I had a few very awkward conversations with people trying to tell me that Jon definitely has to come back because in the book he and Tyrion are secret targaryens.

 

[Psychoward]

I have read the books and i'm confident he is not coming back

I know but I'm saying it's much more plausible for book readers to come to the conclusion that Jon comes back than it is for show watchers.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

Rickon would be before Sansa. Boys inherit first.

Edit: this doesn't apply in Dorne though. There it goes by birth order regardless of gender. Not that that matters in the show.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

Male's inherit first so it would be Rickon. Just as Tommen is king despite Myrcella being older.

 

[studyguy]

Gotcha thanks, didn't think of the Lannister situation, that clears it up immediately.

 

[mantidor]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

It is the case, Rickon has precedence over Sansa.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

Rickon then Sansa. Skips her for being a woman I believe. Though I'm not sure how her marriage to Ramsay changes things?

 

[J Jizzle]

Episode 3 is my guess too with a Meli sacrifice, the plot armor is too strong with him in the show.

For book Snow I can see all kinds of scenarios happening and I'd guess GRRM will be taking a completely different route to the show. That will only help sell more books.

 

[studyguy]

Rickon then Sansa. Skips her for being a woman I believe. Though I'm not sure how her marriage to Ramsay changes things?

I don't think the marriage immediately changes things as much as an heir between the two does iirc. Which would be pretty awful, I can see D&D making Sansa pregnant for shock value down the line. ugh

 

[Moff]

I do think Jon comes back but I find it odd how confident the show watchers are in that theory. I can only assume a lot of book readers throughout the internet not so subtly hinted at the theory. I mean without tower of joy and LSH it's pretty suspicious that so many supposed show only consumers are that confident Jon comes back.

LSH is a good hint
I did not know about the whole R+J when I read it and it was obvious to me any way
even without LSH it's obvious

the reason why it's obvious that jon will come back are not GRRMs hints, it's because it makes no sense.
ned's death made sense, Robs' death made sense. No one thought they'd come back.
Jon's death makes 0 sense, that's why it's such a lazy and poor cliffhanger. Literally the whole wall arc over 5 books makes 0 sense if jon dies. it's the same in the show, that's why it's obvious.

 

[Nodnol]

Rickon then Sansa. Skips her for being a woman I believe. Though I'm not sure how her marriage to Ramsay changes things?

Winterfell was given to the Boltons following the Red Wedding, wasn't it? They only delayed their arrival whilst it was being rebuilt. Ramsey's marriage to Sansa is to garner support from the other Northen houses, to legitimize their claim at Winterfell. Not to mention, a son would be the heir for both houses.

 

[ultron87]

Yep, the only thing dumber that Jon being dead dead would've been Dany dying in the fighting pits.

 

[Elysium-777]

I'm still hoping that Jon is somehow a Targaryen with Daenerys' unburnt powers. Maybe when they make a pyre for him, he doesn't burn and the Red Woman takes that as a sign that the Lord of Light wants him to be brought back.

Edit: didn't read the "unmarked" part.

 

[Showaddy]

Enjoyed the episode overall but jesus at this Dornish plot line. I mean I never liked it in the books anyway but this is a next level of cringe worthy.

 

[LifEndz]

Anyone else watch the "After the Thrones" show on HBO? I'm watching it now and I can't believe someone from HBO didn't pull Chris aside and tell him that Cersei isn't pronounced "Sir-Z." Also feels like way too much of them getting jokes off and not really discussing the show. First episode so I'm sure they'll get better.

 

[studyguy]

I'm still hoping that Jon is somehow a

Spoiler

Targaryen

with Daenerys'

Spoiler

unburnt

powers. Maybe when they make a

Spoiler

pyre

for him, he doesn't

Spoiler

burn

and the Red Woman takes that as a sign that the Lord of Light wants him to be brought back.

Spoiler tagged since I'm not sure what's allowed here.

I can see that happening.

 

[J Jizzle]

I'm still hoping that Jon is somehow a Targaryen with Daenerys' unburnt powers. Maybe when they make a pyre for him, he doesn't burn and the Red Woman takes that as a sign that the Lord of Light wants him to be brought back.

I don't think it will go down this way but it could for the show and would act as a faith restoring circle for Meli. Not so much in the book with GRRM saying Dany not being burnt to a crisp was a one time thing with blood magic involved, which I don't think the show has really clarified as such.

 

[Oldest Snake]

Winterfell was given to the Boltons following the Red Wedding, wasn't it? They only delayed their arrival whilst it was being rebuilt. Ramsey's marriage to Sansa is to garner support from the other Northen houses, to legitimize their claim at Winterfell. Not to mention, a son would be the heir for both houses.

Winterfell was given to the Boltons by Tywin/The Lannisters. Sansa was given to Ramsay by Roose/Littlefinger as an act of betrayal against The Lannisters. Neither of those options generate much support from the Northern Houses in the show, as evinced by the complete lack of Northern Houses since season 3.

In the books the fArya/Ramsay marriage was probably set up before the Red Wedding by Tywin as one of the terms to guarantee a commitment to the Boltons by House Lannister.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I occasionally remember some scenes from last episode throughout the day and I still can't control the laugh when they come.

What a mess.

 

[munchie64]

Looks like the Alt Shift X is doing episode breakdowns this season. It's great stuff (trailer spoilers in here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijUNEc_fmc

 

[hipsterpants]

I'm pretty sure of all the plot threads going on in the show right now, Jon coming back and kicking ass is the only one I really care about. Which is funny because I don't really care about book Jon at all.

 

[suzu]

Of course Jon is coming back. He's not warged in the show, but he's not gonna stay dead. A revival will happen even if it doesn't go down the way it probably will in the book. There's still unresolved stuff.

 

[Fuzzy]

I'm still hoping that Jon is somehow a Targaryen with Daenerys' unburnt powers. Maybe when they make a pyre for him, he doesn't burn and the Red Woman takes that as a sign that the Lord of Light wants him to be brought back.

Edit: didn't read the "unmarked" part.

Jon already burnt his hand in the first season while fighting the wight when he saved Lord Commander Mormont.

 

[ZeroRay]

For some fun after all this, here's a Hardcore History parody with a very familiar subject.

http://www.earwolf.com/episode/hgot-shadow-of-the-dragon-pt-i/

 

[mantidor]

Jon already burnt his hand in the first season while fighting the wight when he saved Lord Commander Mormont.

After their thing with the necklace and Melissandre I think they don't really care about continuity. Not that this proves Jon is a targ, just that it can happen.

 

[Iksenpets]

After their thing with the necklace and Melissandre I think they don't really care about continuity. Not that this proves Jon is a targ, just that it can happen.

Jon burning his hand is a book thing though. And in the books Dany's immunity to burning was a one-time thing from the sacrifice of the witch, not an inate ability of hers. She gets burned by Drogon in the fighting pits scene. Her being completely immune to fire is a show-only thing, so if that's part of Jon's resurrection here, then they'd have to have rewritten it completely from whatever is happening in the books.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Jon actually being dead would be the most surprising twist for sure.
Also I'd have to imagine the script for the rest of the season if they use him in more than the first episode would be

"Look dead"

Easiest paycheck ever.

Maybe Jon will be like that Daniel Radcliff movie,

 

[Liquidsnake]

Best acting he's done all series!

I actually don't see the issue some have with Kit's acting.

I think anyone who has a problem with his acting knows nothing of acting.

He is very very good.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Also curious as an aside, whose claim is actually strongest to the North at the moment among the living children (and obviously able to rule immediately not stuck being a tree, having no face or dead)?

Sansa right then Rickon? Not entirely sure if it goes down the line of succession by birth in this story or if it skipped over Sansa simply for being a woman. I don't think that's the case, right?

Current Winterfell line of succession:

Roose - current Lord
Ramsey
baby Roose
(Bran)
Rickon
Sansa
(Arya)
The KarStarks

 

[WaffleTaco]

Anyone else watch the "After the Thrones" show on HBO? I'm watching it now and I can't believe someone from HBO didn't pull Chris aside and tell him that Cersei isn't pronounced "Sir-Z." Also feels like way too much of them getting jokes off and not really discussing the show. First episode so I'm sure they'll get better.

I was thinking about it...then someone said that they said Elleria was Doran's sister, and felt I shouldn't even bother.

 

[Nodnol]

Looks like the Alt Shift X is doing episode breakdowns this season. It's great stuff (trailer spoilers in here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijUNEc_fmc

Awesome; I watched one of his other videos...and the continued to watch them all regarding GoT. Even stuff I knew; he articulates thing clearly, and pull together the source material really well. Great channel.

 

[Brakke]

Jon burning his hand is a book thing though. And in the books Dany's immunity to burning was a one-time thing from the sacrifice of the witch, not an inate ability of hers. She gets burned by Drogon in the fighting pits scene. Her being completely immune to fire is a show-only thing, so if that's part of Jon's resurrection here, then they'd have to have rewritten it completely from whatever is happening in the books.

Is Dany "completely immune to fire" in the show tho? She comes out of the pyre like she does in the books and then like... she hangs out in a very hot bath? When else has she even by exposed to heat or fire?

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Jon burning his hand is a book thing though. And in the books Dany's immunity to burning was a one-time thing from the sacrifice of the witch, not an inate ability of hers. She gets burned by Drogon in the fighting pits scene. Her being completely immune to fire is a show-only thing, so if that's part of Jon's resurrection here, then they'd have to have rewritten it completely from whatever is happening in the books.

Does she? Do we have any screens showing the burn?

 

[Zabka]

Is Dany "completely immune to fire" in the show tho? She comes out of the pyre like she does in the books and then like... she hangs out in a very hot bath? When else has she even by exposed to heat or fire?

She put the dragon eggs in the brazier and picked them up without being burned. Her handmaiden who grabs them from her gets burned.

 

[studyguy]

Current Winterfell line of succession:

Roose - current Lord
Ramsey
baby Roose
(Bran)
Rickon
Sansa
(Arya)
The KarStarks

Isn't Winterfell's formal succession recognized as Roose = Rickon at the moment?
Like Rickon could just contest if he magically appeared with an army and the north should probably raise behind him.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Isn't Winterfell's formal succession recognized as Roose = Rickon at the moment?
Like Rickon could just contest if he magically appeared with an army and the north should probably raise behind him.

If you need to take power by force, rather than it just being handed to you, that would be considered "usurping."

The line of succession just refers to where the seat of power would transfer upon the current lord's death.

But yes, Rickon would have strong Northern support, and could probably raise an army strong enough to take out the Boltons.

EDIT: one problem for Rickon though is that Bran, Arya, and himself are all believed to be dead. Which hurts his credibility whenever he comes forward, especially the longer he waits. As the other Northern houses aren't guaranteed to believe him. For instance, he's currently with the Umbers, but any Northern house feuding with the Umbers might believe that he's just a ploy by the Umbers to take power. A house that might prefer to see Sansa take power will similarly refuse to believe that Rickon is real.

 

[elrechazado]

Isn't Winterfell's formal succession recognized as Roose = Rickon at the moment?
Like Rickon could just contest if he magically appeared with an army and the north should probably raise behind him.

It all depends who is on the iron throne too. They can make whoever they want the lord of whatever they want, regardless of the lineage issues. Whether the vassals follow is of course another issue.

 

[Iksenpets]

Does she? Do we have any screens showing the burn?

I was talking in book. In show she does seem to be completely immune to fire. My point was just that if fire immunity were to be involved in Jon's resurrection, it would mean that the method of resurrection is probably completely different show vs book.

 

[Sean C]

Current Winterfell line of succession:

Roose - current Lord
Ramsey
baby Roose
(Bran)
Rickon
Sansa
(Arya)
The KarStarks

No, those are two different lines of succession.

The Boltons claim Winterfell, with Roose as lord and Ramsay as his heir.

The Starks also claim Winterfell. Bran is properly the lord/king/whatever, though absent, followed by Rickon, then Sansa, then Arya, then whichever distant relative comes next (it'd be some other descendant of Lord Beron Stark, going by the books).

 

[Ingeniero]

Normally I rewatch the episode several times during the week but damn this was so bad I want to forget about it.

Worst show ever, seriously what a mess.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I was talking in book. In show she does seem to be completely immune to fire. My point was just that if fire immunity were to be involved in Jon's resurrection, it would mean that the method of resurrection is probably completely different show vs book.

OOO okay, gotcha.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Current Winterfell line of succession:

Roose - current Lord
Ramsey
baby Roose
(Bran)
Rickon
Sansa
(Arya)
The KarStarks

Wait isn't Winterfell destroyed? The Boltons are the Lords of the North as Tommen declared but they are still ruling in Dreadfort. I think only the 'capital' of the North was transfered from Winterfell to Dreadfort, but the Starks are still lords of Winterfell but now vassals. At least that's what I get from the books.

 

[kirby_cholo]

I was talking in book. In show she does seem to be completely immune to fire. My point was just that if fire immunity were to be involved in Jon's resurrection, it would mean that the method of resurrection is probably completely different show vs book.

but, red priests usually just "pray" next to the body, right?

Wait isn't Winterfell destroyed? The Boltons are the Lords of the North as Tommen declared but they are still ruling in Dreadfort. I think only the 'capital' of the North was transfered from Winterfell to Dreadfort, but the Starks are still lords of Winterfell but now vassals. At least that's what I get from the books.

it was damaged on the raids, but they have been restoring it during all of season 5. there's several scenes where there are Bolton's carpenters and masons rebuilding it.