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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6

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O

Oldest Snake

Member
bodyofanamerican said:
Reddit now has me paranoid that Jon really COULD be dead for good, and the reason we saw Mel's glamour trick last night, is that they're going to have someone else be glamoured into being Jon vs. actually resurrecting him. This is crazy talk, right?
Click to expand...

I think there's definitely more to it than I was expecting.

I was fully in the Jon > Ghost > Jon camp after finishing the books, but the way Ghost was acting in this episode has made me completely disregard that theory (for the show at least).
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
bengraven said:
Literally my reaction reading this.

latest


(what,no,sad,hm)

Fuck if that's true.
Click to expand...

Bigger chance of the WW resurrecting Jon than him being dead for good.
 
J

JustSomeone

Member
I don't get how people can believe Jon will be back. Didn't you watch the first five seasons of the show?
Good guys DO DIE in this show/book series.
PERMANENTLY. There is no reason to believe Jon is going to be any different.
The only character who is immune to dying is Tyrion, and even that isn't something I would put my money on.
 
MisterR

MisterR

Member
JustSomeone said:
I don't get how people can believe Jon will be back. Didn't you watch the first five seasons of the show?
Good guys DO DIE in this show/book series.
PERMANENTLY. There is no reason to believe Jon is going to be any different.
Click to expand...

He will certainly be back. They just wanted to drag it out an episode or two
 
M

mercenar1e

Member
bodyofanamerican said:
Reddit now has me paranoid that Jon really COULD be dead for good, and the reason we saw Mel's glamour trick last night, is that they're going to have someone else be glamoured into being Jon vs. actually resurrecting him. This is crazy talk, right?
Click to expand...

I thought her glamour trick makes her look as her younger self? either way i think that scene on top of the others were to show the viewers that Mel is at her lowest point and shes just about ready to lose her faith. Hes going to get resurrected and its going to renew her commitment to the lord of light.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
JustSomeone said:
I don't get how people can believe Jon will be back. Didn't you watch the first five seasons of the show?
Good guys DO DIE in this show/book series.
PERMANENTLY. There is no reason to believe Jon is going to be any different.
The only character who is immune to dying is Tyrion, and even that isn't something I would put my money on.
Click to expand...

It's pretty shit storytelling to kill of one of your main characters after 6000 pages don't you think? (edit: then again this is a book series that introduces a brand new major player to the game at around 5000 pages into it so...)
It was also very much telegraphed in the prologue chapter of Dance, considering it was about a person Warging as they were dying.
Only scenario I can see Jon not coming back (for the books at least) is if GRRM decides it's gotten to obvious, and does a "gotcha!" and decides he wants to keep him dead.
 
A

Apt101

Member
Everything we've read to this point indicates Jon is coming back to life. GRRM even spent time hinting towards it with Berric and LSH.
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Moff said:
that's really impressive

I admit I never expected that, I always thought the show would get as boring as AFFC/ADWD and the ratings would drop significantly
Click to expand...

Honestly I think Jon Snow dying helps a lot, plus most people see the trailers (really well done this year) and realise how hyped they are for it again. This mostly for the premiere, before everyone comes back for the season finale.

Fuzzy said:
Why would show Jaime kill Cersei? They get closer every time one of their kids die.
Click to expand...
The split will probably happen this season, and they seem to be in an on-again, off-again realtionship.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
I'll take a week's ban if Jon's dead body doesn't come back to life.

Stop being silly and shitting yourselves, it's obviously going to happen. People lose all reason and expect the craziest things when it comes to speculation. Some thought that the shot of someone closing dead Jon's eyes was Thoros, when anyone who actually stopped to think and didn't automatically go into internet knee-jerk mode could see that it was probably Edd.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
Apt101 said:
Everything we've read to this point indicates Jon is coming back to life. GRRM even spent time hinting towards it with Berric and LSH.
Click to expand...

This isn't first hand, but I did read that in one Q&A session when asked about Jon's death GRRM replied "oh you think he's dead do you?". This could be BS though, so don't quote me on it.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
I hope he doesn't come back only because I think it's a lame plot device to waste half a season reviving one character. It reminds me of the worst part of DBZ lol.

It's fun to speculate.
 
SpaceHorror

SpaceHorror

Member
Apt101 said:
Everything we've read to this point indicates Jon is coming back to life. GRRM even spent time hinting towards it with Berric and LSH.
Click to expand...

Hell, the entire prologue of A Dance with Dragons is about a dude warging into an animal as he dies.

I'm not sure if the show is going to go that route, but it doesn't matter, whether he is currently in Ghost or not, he's coming back.
 
F

fantomena

Member
Jon will be back. Why the fuck would they show and have so much emphasis on Tower of Joy flashback, talk about how good of a guy Rhaegar was and who Lyanna was in previous seasons?

There are so many hidden and non-hidden clues both in the show and in the books that Jon will be back and obviously R + L = J.
 
K

kazinova

Member
When LSH exists, there really is no hard and fast rule for death. Anything's on the table as far as I'm concerned. You would hope that at least one of GRRMs supernatural threads result in a payoff (Dragons, Warg-Bran, Arya-Assassin, LSH, R+L=J)

One of these has to have some payoff, right?
 
A

Apt101

Member
kazinova said:
When LSH exists, there really is no hard and fast rule for death. Anything's on the table as far as I'm concerned. You would hope that at least one of GRRMs supernatural threads result in a payoff (Dragons, Warg-Bran, Arya-Assassin, LSH, R+L=J)

One of these has to have some payoff, right?
Click to expand...

I really think many of the things of legend are going to come raging back into the world as the Others proceed South.
 
M

mantidor

Member
Ishan said:
Guys quick question so when Mel says she saw jon fighting at winterfell it struck me as odd has this been mentioned before (in show of course I know in the books she keeps seeing him etc )? Cause if it's something she saw it te flames after the whole desertion of stannis army it makes sense why made a beeline back to castle black and abandoned Stannis. I can totally see her seeing half the army gone panicking going to the flames sees Jon goes oh shit Jon it is books it to the wall now sees jon is dead and goes oookay it's all crap everything seems wrong ??

Maybe this has been discussed before ?
Click to expand...

Yeah this is the first time in show that she says she has seen Jon at Winterfell, I think she sensed something about him before but it was never that specific.
 
A

Apt101

Member
mantidor said:
Yeah this is the first time in show that she says she has seen Jon at Winterfell, I think she sensed something about him before but it was never that specific.
Click to expand...

In one episode she is looking into flames perplexed, and then it pivots to a scene with Jon. I think she hits on him? Anyways, it's not blunt like it is in the books, but she clearly has been thinking about Jon.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Paganmoon said:
Bigger chance of the WW resurrecting Jon than him being dead for good.
Click to expand...

The glamour talk combined with the faceless mask talk makes me think two things:

1) both are legit and original ways to get over the whole "everyone is expecting mel to rez him" situation

2) what the fuck is the point of Jon that someone would need to pretend to be him? It doesn't make much sense at all. Robb yes. Robb would have been a perfect candidate for a glamour resurrection. But Jon, hated by the North for being a bastard, hated by his own people, the only ones who love him either dead or missing...sure maybe being a man of the Stark line might bring people to support him, but that's Sansa's job. Do you follow Ned's bastard with the weirdly pale skin and constantly bleeding stomach wounds? No, but you listen to the poor defenseless weaker sex who pleads with you with those big baby blue eyes and whimpering lip that she wants vengeance for daddy and mummy and robby.

If it's actually Jon then maybe his personality might find a way to convince them - it's one of his strengths. But if he's in Heavenos you'll need a very convincing reason to bring a fake Jon into play.

speculation:

i am hoping for snow vs. snow
 
A

Apt101

Member
"I've burned away my years fighting for terrible kings...a man of honor keeps his vows - even if he's serving a drunk or a lunatic. Just once in my life, before it's over, I want to know what it's like to serve with pride, to fight for someone I believe in."

It's a shame they didn't do more with Selmy. I can't wait to see how they ruin the memory of Arthur Dayne.

Edit: his scene, while being told to quit, was also the best of that season. But still. He died lazily while fighting turds.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Apt101 said:
"I've burned away my years fighting for terrible kings...a man of honor keeps his vows - even if he's serving a drunk or a lunatic. Just once in my life, before it's over, I want to know what it's like to serve with pride, to fight for someone I believe in."

It's a shame they didn't do more with Selmy. I can't wait to see how they ruin the memory of Arthur Dayne.
Click to expand...

Selmy is still alive. ;)

And after an awesome POV chapter in the last book he's about to have an even more awesome one or three in the next.
 
F

fantomena

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Why are people worried that Jon is not coming back again?
Click to expand...

1) He's stil dead.
2) Some people think that Melisandre either has lost all her magic or she died when she got into bed last scene.

For what it's worth, Thoros said he lost all his faith and didn't know what he could do when his friend Beric died. That was when R'hllor replied and ressurrected Beric.
 
TheFuzz

TheFuzz

Member
fantomena said:
1) He's stil dead.
2) Some people think that Melisandre either has lost all her magic or she died when she got into bed last scene.

For what it's worth, Thoros said he lost all his faith and didn't know what he could do when his friend Beric died. That was when R'hllor replied and ressurrected Beric.
Click to expand...

This right here. Jon is coming back to life and Mel hitting rock bottom is foreshadowing it. Melisandre doesn't know she has the power to resurrect anyone and will do it on Jon.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Please don't post promo pics from episodes that haven't aired yet. Place them behind and link and use spoiler tags to discuss them. Thanks.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Why are people worried that Jon is not coming back again?
Click to expand...

Because a Reddit theory got me legit shook.

Saya said:
Jon will be back, resurrected in episode 9 I bet. The same episode that Dany finally moves towards Westeros.
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I agree they're going to make us wait for Jon to come back, but ep 9 is pushing it, I think. I just don't see how they keep his corpse as a consistent part of the story without resorting to Weekend at Jonny's with Tormund and Davos.

Further, (trailer spoilers)
Davos and Sansa have to end up at House Mormont trying to convince them that the WW are the real threat. I wonder how they get Davos away from the Wall/Castle Black without Jon being rezzed.
 
S

Saya

Member
bodyofanamerican said:
I agree they're going to make us wait for Jon to come back, but ep 9 is pushing it, I think. I just don't see how they keep his corpse as a consistent part of the story without resorting to Weekend at Jonny's with Tormund and Davos.
Click to expand...

I'm sure D&D will find a way to fill that period of time with some irrelevant stories. And it's not like his body will decompose that much, it's freakin cold at the wall. They can draw the surprise out, because the longer they wait the more certain people will think he's not coming back and then it happens.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Jon actually being dead would be the most surprising twist for sure.
Also I'd have to imagine the script for the rest of the season if they use him in more than the first episode would be

"Look dead"

Easiest paycheck ever.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
It just occurred to me (sorry for more spoiler tags, based on upcoming episode loglines and filming/speciulation) that if
the Umbers give Rickon up to Ramsay in ep 3 (titled Oathbreaker), there's your perfect reason for Ramsay to send the show version of the Pink Letter, demanding his bride back in return for Rickon/not destroying the Night's Watch, since the previews for ep 2 show him assuming Sansa's headed for the Wall to meet up with Jon. THEN Davos and Sansa start recruiting other Northern houses and that leads nicely into Jon's resurrection.
 
S

shanshan310

Member
bodyofanamerican said:
It just occurred to me (sorry for more spoiler tags, based on upcoming episode loglines and filming/speciulation) that if
the Umbers give Rickon up to Ramsay in ep 3 (titled Oathbreaker), there's your perfect reason for Ramsay to send the show version of the Pink Letter, demanding his bride back in return for Rickon/not destroying the Night's Watch. THEN Davos and Sansa start recruiting other Northern houses and that leads nicely into Jon's resurrection.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see that happening. It seems like a really long, boring way to go about it though.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
studyguy said:
Jon actually being dead would be the most surprising twist for sure.
Also I'd have to imagine the script for the rest of the season if they use him in more than the first episode would be

"Look dead"

Easiest paycheck ever.
Click to expand...

I imagine this is insanely hard. I mean, it's not just not moving (try it, you'll notice you itch everywhere). It's not moving your eyes beneath your eyelids, not breathing while the camera is on you, not emoting to anything going around of you (you can't see shit, but you'll hear and sense things moving about you).
 
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