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[Oldest Snake]

Maybe the NK's 'mark' isn't a mark in the sense that Bran has been 'branded' by him, it's just the consequence of him making physical contact with Bran (a freezer burn!). The mark itself might not be important, he just needs to touch someone whilst they're greenseeing, he didn't use an existing 'mark' on Bran to enter the cave after all, he simply touched him in a vision when Bran was physically inside of the cave.

He could do the same thing again, touch Bran whilst he's greenseeing, after he has passed the wall and use that connection to breach The Wall's magic the same way he did at the cave.

 

[wesleyshark]

I would like LF to get desperate and reach out to Euron, culminating in Mr "Chaos-is-a-ladder" getting annihilated by the true force of chaos in the world, Euron the God-Murderer.

I love this idea

 

[TalkingToast]

I would like LF to get desperate and reach out to Euron, culminating in Mr "Chaos-is-a-ladder" getting annihilated by the true force of chaos in the world, Euron the God-Murderer.

I just don't see how he could come out on top with the whole war of the 5 kings deal, but somehow not be able to handle Uncle Theon 2 ? So far the show hasn't really given us any reason to believe he would be too unpredictable for Littlefinger to handle.

The only real fitting ends I could see for him (like, possible in my head at least.) would be Sansa, Varys, Arya or maybe maybe maybe Tyrion. Euron just doesn't seem capable.

 

[jerry113]

I just don't see how he could come out on top with the whole war of the 5 kings deal, but somehow not be able to handle Uncle Theon 2 ? So far the show hasn't really given us any reason to believe he would be too unpredictable for Littlefinger to handle.

The only real fitting ends I could see for him (like, possible in my head at least.) would be Sansa, Varys, Arya or maybe maybe maybe Tyrion. Euron just doesn't seem capable.

He will count on Dany vs. Cersei + Euron.

Cersei blows up King Landing as defeat is imminent.

Littlefinger now king of the ashes.

 

[PantherLotus]

You all gotta kinda admit that LF's moves over the past season cast real doubt over whether he's in control of anything.

 

[Kain]

Show's LF goal is to pork Sansa, there is no plan, only lust. Carcetti is awful.

 

[RobotsAnger]

Dunno about being in control, his plan seems to be just causing chaos and deciding what step to take next to take advantage of the situation.

 

[Speevy]

Littlefinger sells his niece to the rape dungeon, then destroys the rape dungeon, then destroys the one who helped him destroy the rape dungeon.

Next step is to make a rape dungeon of his own.

 

[old]

The "good guys" are too strong at this point. It almost makes the white walker threat look anticlimactic. They've got to weaken Dany's army, her alliances, and the north to make it a game again.

LF has said he uses chaos to climb. He's going to cause as much of it as he can.

My guess is LF helps Euron (perhaps summon a kraken/storm?) to destroy most of Dany's fleet. He also helps Cersie burn kings landing to destroy a large portion of Dany's army trapped inside. While also playing houses against one another through lies (like claiming the dagger was tyrion's) to split alliances. And finally, he sabotages the wall to allow the white walkers in to cause havoc in the north.

 

[Jigorath]

Show's LF goal is to pork Sansa, there is no plan, only lust. Carcetti is awful.

He wants to pork Sansa on the Iron Throne.

 

[Moff]

niece.

I think the "chaos" phase of LF's plan is long gone, it was clear for quite some time now that he is ready to bring back order with him in control of the vale and the north

 

[CloudWolf]

You all gotta kinda admit that LF's moves over the past season cast real doubt over whether he's in control of anything.

It's weird watching Littlefinger's arc throughout the show. In the first three (and argualy four) seasons they were clearly trying to keep true to the book character and his goals. Him constantly betraying people, making pacts with every side of the conflict so that he will get something whoever wins, that great scene with Varys. And then suddenly it all kind of disappeared and his main goal became getting with Sansa, for some reason.

 

[Moff]

It's weird watching Littlefinger's arc throughout the show. In the first three (and argualy four) seasons they were clearly trying to keep true to the book character and his goals. Him constantly betraying people, making pacts with every side of the conflict, that great scene with Varys. And then suddenly it all kind of disappeared and his main goal became getting with Sansa, for some reason.

well yes, she is the key to the north for him, he needs to marry her, there is no way around it. if you believe he does that only because of love or lust then I don't know what to tell you. I don't expect this to be any different in the books.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Also, Littlefinger wants to be on the Iron Throne? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sheroking]

It's weird watching Littlefinger's arc throughout the show. In the first three (and argualy four) seasons they were clearly trying to keep true to the book character and his goals. Him constantly betraying people, making pacts with every side of the conflict so that he will get something whoever wins, that great scene with Varys. And then suddenly it all kind of disappeared and his main goal became getting with Sansa, for some reason.

Well, not "some reason". She was, until Jon happened, the heir apparent to the North and the key to yet more power for him. Also, I guess it's as close as he'd get to fucking Catelyn - in a gross, disturbed way.

Also, Littlefinger wants to be on the Iron Throne? That doesn't make any sense.

Did you misinterpret the season 1 scene where he was LITERALLY gazing lovingly at the Iron Throne?

It's kind of always been the ambition of Baelish. At least, the show version.

 

[Speevy]

I think the "chaos" phase of LF's plan is long gone, it was clear for quite some time now that he is ready to bring back order with him in control of the vale and the north

As in, married to the sister of a child's mother.

 

[Kain]

Also, Littlefinger wants to be on the Iron Throne? That doesn't make any sense.

Yep, the character has always been awful on the show but that was the last nail on the coffin. There is no scenario that would make LF get on the Iron Throne unless he had magic sex powers to nail Dany and Cersei at the same time and create a new trifecta of awesome blonde people with dragons.

Or maybe he's just delusional.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Yep, the character has always been awful on the show but that was the last nail on the coffin. There is no scenario that would make LF get on the Iron Throne unless he had magic sex powers to nail Dany and Cersei at the same time and create a new trifecta of awesome blonde people with dragons.

Or maybe he's just delusional.

Even if your scenario played out, it would be Dany and/or Cercei on the throne. Yes, the show plays fast and loose with interference and rule, but King Peter doesn't work at all. He's the puppet master, not the, uh, puppet.

 

[Speevy]

What are you guys talking about? Littlefinger has always wanted the iron throne. His way of getting it is killing everyone though.

 

[Burt]

What are you guys talking about? Littlefinger has always wanted the iron throne. His way of getting it is killing everyone though.

Yeah what am I reading in this thread

Littlefinger's defining motivations throughout the entirety of the books and the show are his obsession with Catelyn Stark and his desire to sit on the Iron Throne.

 

[Gigglepoo]

You guys should listen to Radio Westeros' two-part series on Littlefinger.

 

[Kain]

What are you guys talking about? Littlefinger has always wanted the iron throne. His way of getting it is killing everyone though.

I thought his aim was to show everyone how cool lowborn people can be or something. Oh wait those particular scenes were never in the show.

I think it's safe to say we never had any idea what LF's goal was with the material given. Like, at the beginning he wanted to fuck with Ned (he got his wish), then he wanted to get on with the Cat, the Cat died so now he tries with the young Cat. There is not much of a plan there tbh

Wait, does any living person in Westeros know that it was him who suggested Joffrey to execute Ned?

 

[Moff]

the whole point of littlefinger is to show that a lowborn across all the noble protagonists in the show/books can rise high if he is good at the game of thrones

of course his goal is the throne or to get as close to it as possible, you guys are crazy, why do you think he does everything in the books? just for his own amusement?

 

[Black_Sun]

Yeah what am I reading in this thread

Littlefinger's defining motivations throughout the entirety of the books and the show are his obsession with Catelyn Stark and his desire to sit on the Iron Throne.

Well no. In the books, LF should know he can't sit the Iron Throne no matter what he does. No one would accept him. Too lowborn.

Book LF wants to be the power behind the Iron Throne. Much safer that way too.

 

[Black_Sun]

the whole point of littlefinger is to show that a lowborn across all the noble protagonists in the show/books can rise high if he is good at the game of thrones

of course his goal is the throne or to get as close to it as possible, you guys are crazy, why do you think he does everything in the books? just for his own amusement?

For his ego

 

[biosnake20]

.

 

[Moff]

For his ego

I don't know if that's better or worse than his amusement. and what boost does his ego get if he doesn't wield actual power? and how is he supposed to control whoever sits the throne unless that persan is a dimwit child like sweetrobin? I don't even see how that is much better than his initial position as master of coin.

no, LF brought all the events in the saga in motion with jon arryn's death, if he turns out to be a master at the game of thrones and put all of this into action just for amusement or ego without ambitions of ever getting any actual power this would be super anticlimatic.

 

[Burt]

Well no. In the books, LF should know he can't sit the Iron Throne no matter what he does. No one would accept him. Too lowborn.

Book LF wants to be the power behind the Iron Throne. Much safer that way too.

Splitting hairs here. I'll rephrase:

He wants to be the most powerful person in Westeros.

.

Awesome

 

[wesleyshark]

Also, Littlefinger wants to be on the Iron Throne? That doesn't make any sense.

It does make sense.

What are you guys talking about? Littlefinger has always wanted the iron throne. His way of getting it is killing everyone though.

Yeah what am I reading in this thread

Littlefinger's defining motivations throughout the entirety of the books and the show are his obsession with Catelyn Stark and his desire to sit on the Iron Throne.

LF wants the Iron Throne, or at the very least, the power of it. If he can't sit on the throne itself, he wants to be the voice and ears behind the person does sit there.

 

[Speevy]

Just because someone is lowborn or not supported doesn't invalidate their ambition for the iron throne.

Dany didn't get her armies just by being a Targaryen.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Just because someone is lowborn or not supported doesn't invalidate their ambition for the iron throne.

Dany didn't get her armies just by being a Targaryen.

I mean... she mostly did by being a Targaryen

 

[Speevy]

I mean... she mostly did by being a Targaryen

You know what I mean. People didn't just run up to her with armies. She had to earn that shit.

 

[Shamrock7r]

You know what I mean. People didn't just run up to her with armies. She had to earn that shit.

She was sold over to a Khal to be his wife because she is Targaryen. Then all she did was pretend to sell a (given to her because she is Targ) dragon for a whole Unsullied army and then turn around and say sike! Then she accidentally gets kidnapped by the Dothraki and pushes a fire lamp over. I dunno. To me she has been handed most of her power. She's made a few choices here and there but overall I haven't felt like she has earned much.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I never heard anyone argue that Littlefinger wants to sit on the throne himself before the character said that was his wish last episode. It's strange. Seriously, just listen to Radio Westeros. They do incredibly in-depth character analyses. It will be a lot more enriching than "He wants to be on the throne!" vs "No he doesn't!" posts.

 

[wesleyshark]

You know what I mean. People didn't just run up to her with armies. She had to earn that shit.

She didn't really earn it though.

 

[Last Hearth]

Why do you think the showrunners veered from the books so that Jon knows Bran is alive?

They wanted to save the attack on the wall to episode 9 of season 4. Which meant they had to invent something for Jon to do for most of season 4, they decided that Jon need to lead an assault to Craster's, and they need motivate him to go there with the knowledge about Bran.
Basically they write backwards from the need for the episode 9 spectacle, it's a terrible way to write.

 

[Black_Sun]

I don't know if that's better or worse than his amusement. and what boost does his ego get if he doesn't wield actual power? and how is he supposed to control whoever sits the throne unless that persan is a dimwit child like sweetrobin? I don't even see how that is much better than his initial position as master of coin.

no, LF brought all the events in the saga in motion with jon arryn's death, if he turns out to be a master at the game of thrones and put all of this into action just for amusement or ego without ambitions of ever getting any actual power this would be super anticlimatic.

He wants to wield power through Sansa. Which is why he's trying to train her to be his puppet at least in the books.

The only real reason LF wants power is to stroke his ego and spit in the faces of the Tullys and the Starks and all the rest of the nobles who he feels shortchanged him.

That's why he had Ned killed, why he usurped the Tullys as the LP of the Riverlands and why he's looking to usurp the Starks by making himself the new lord of Winterfell and then marrying Sansa to prove that he is good enough for Cat/Sansa.

Like remember how he always brings up that he took Cat and Lysa's virginities?

LF isn't a badass. He's ultimately a very pathetic and insecure guy who got pissed that life is unfair to him. He's the anti-Stannis.

 

[Sheroking]

They wanted to save the attack on the wall to episode 9 of season 4. Which meant they had to invent something for Jon to do for most of season 4, they decided that Jon need to lead an assault to Craster's, and they need motivate him to go there with the knowledge about Bran.
Basically they write backwards from the need for the episode 9 spectacle, it's a terrible way to write.

1) Jon didn't go to Craster's because of Bran. He actually had no idea Bran was there, at all. He went to Craster's because Karl and the deserters knew the truth about how under-manned the wall was, and they needed to prevent Mance from getting that intel.

2) There's nothing wrong with writing backwards, especially in TV.

3) That was a good episode in the middle of the best season of the show. Terrible writing claims need not apply.

 

[jerry113]

Like remember how he always brings up that he took Cat and Lysa's virginities?

wait what

 

[bengraven]

Is Sansa going to replace her wolf and her Hound with Ramsays dogs?

 

[Last Hearth]

1) Jon didn't go to Craster's because of Bran. He actually had no idea Bran was there, at all. He went to Craster's because Karl and the deserters knew the truth about how under-manned the wall was, and they needed to prevent Mance from getting that intel.

2) There's nothing wrong with writing backwards, especially in TV.

3) That was a good episode in the middle of the best season of the show. Terrible writing claims need not apply.

He suspected Bran was there, so did Locke, he specifically told Sam that he's going to look for Bran there.

Writing backwards is how you get characters whose actions are driven by what the plot requires rather than consistent motivations. Which is bad writing. Season 4 had plenty of bad writing.

 

[Black_Sun]

wait what

He mistakenly thinks he took Cat's virginity when it was really Lysa taking advantage of him while he was drunk

It's why LF thinks he was star crossed lovers with Cat

He really did take Lysa's though

 

[Sheroking]

He suspected Bran was there, so did Locke, he specifically told Sam that he's going to look for Bran there.

Okay.

He still wasn't there because he heard about Bran. He suggested the raid because Karl exposed them to Mance. He showed up, killed them, came back.

Sam meeting Bran was not the plot engine here.

Writing backwards is how you get characters whose actions are driven by what the plot requires rather than consistent motivations. Which is bad writing. Season 4 had plenty of bad writing.

Pretty much every TV show ever has been written backwards.

The process of "breaking" a season of TV is as old the showrunner position. The major storybeats are always locked down before the episodes are written.

 

[bengraven]

The Bran thing bothers me.

"My brootha is north of the wall. I will lead an expedition to find him"

"You're back! Did you find him?

"There were bad guys at Crastors Keep. I killed one with a sword through da froat. I didn't find him."

"So you give up? Hello?"

"Quiet Sam, I'm brooding over being King inna Norf with my future sister wife and aren't you a maester yet?"

"What about Bran?"

"WINTER IS HERE"

 

[Victarion]

The Bran thing bothers me.

"My brootha is north of the wall. I will lead an expedition to find him"

"You're back! Did you find him?

"There were bad guys at Crastors Keep. I killed one with a sword through da froat. I didn't find him."

"So you give up? Hello?"

"Quiet Sam, I'm brooding over being King inna Norf with my future sister wife and aren't you a maester yet?"

"What about Bran?"

"WINTER IS HERE"

What? Jon went to Craster's keep to kill the mutineers, not to find Bran.

 

[fallengorn]

What? Jon went to Craster's keep to kill the mutineers, not to find Bran.

Bran will retcon that in Season 7.

 

[_Ryo_]

The Bran thing bothers me.

"My brootha is north of the wall. I will lead an expedition to find him"

"You're back! Did you find him?

"There were bad guys at Crastors Keep. I killed one with a sword through da froat. I didn't find him."

"So you give up? Hello?"

"Quiet Sam, I'm brooding over being King inna Norf with my future sister wife and aren't you a maester yet?"

"What about Bran?"

"WINTER IS HERE"

You're either remembering what happened or... didn't read the books. lol

 

[Last Hearth]

Pretty much every TV show ever has been written backwards.

The process of "breaking" a season of TV is as old the showrunner position. The major storybeats are always locked down before the episodes are written.

So it seems you agree with me that GOT is just another run of the mill TV show, and D&D are just a couple of conventional TV writers.

I'm fine with leaving it at that.

 

[The One and Done™]

The "good guys" are too strong at this point. It almost makes the white walker threat look anticlimactic. They've got to weaken Dany's army, her alliances, and the north to make it a game again.

LF has said he uses chaos to climb. He's going to cause as much of it as he can.

My guess is LF helps Euron (perhaps summon a kraken/storm?) to destroy most of Dany's fleet. He also helps Cersie burn kings landing to destroy a large portion of Dany's army trapped inside. While also playing houses against one another through lies (like claiming the dagger was tyrion's) to split alliances. And finally, he sabotages the wall to allow the white walkers in to cause havoc in the north.

You underestimate the Night King my friend. Winter is Here and it brings the dead with it.

 

[phaonaut]

Davos training for next season

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHXYzxag0vV/