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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Not in feudalism unless the queen was also part of her husband's family and next in line which Cersei isn't.
But then if the show had stayed true to actual feudalism, Olenna wouldn't be in control of the Reach and neither would the Sand Snakes.
There's be huge rumblings in both kingdoms and potential civil wars about who the new heir is.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
He isn't.
In the case of Olenna and Ellaria it's obvious they simplified things but with Cersei she clearly usurped power, and that will be a major plot point in season 7.
This will explain everything if you're still reading this thread. (There's no reason for anyone not to be reading this thread anymore.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIIzuqIRB2g
Go to 8:30 if you want to skip the Stark history before Ned Stark.
I just watched the episode. Something came up and I couldn't watch it live. Wonderful episode. Every episode should be a hour and a half. In a complete contrast to last year's finale where everything was rushed, in this one, nothing was rushed. Guess I have a lot of posts to catch up on.
Simplified? More like jumped over logic but I'll give you Cersei. She wouldn't be Tommen's heir though.
A Great Council would traditionally be called to determine who the heir is.
bitbydeath
Member
Cersei is the great council lol.
I wonder who she'll staff aside from Qyburn, Jamie looks to be turning from her and the only other 'person' left is Robert Strong.
Maybe they'll cast Aurane Waters!
Though most likely they'll ignore who's on her small counsel. Which seven knights are in the Kingsguard now?
Black Sun, what I'm about to say is what I perceive as the reason for why the readers put Ellaria Sand in charge of Dorne. I'm not saying it's right or logical, but I believe it represents the rationale behind their decisions.
1) A Game of Queens - The show needed all the male leaders replaced by female ones, or usurped/killed by them at the very least. You have Dany, Ellaria, Yara, Cersei, Sansa, Arya all making huge power plays and killing male leaders, or trying to.
2) The fewer characters, the better. Dan and Dave have repeated this line about playing the game with fewer pieces, and it's clear that this reasoning along with #1 was why they chose to end the Martell line, while putting Ellaria in charge. It doesn't make any sense that all the houses of Dorne would be okay with this, but if they had left Doran in charge, they would have had to film more Dorne scenes. The location of Dorne is done with the show. I predict a banner on a bunch of ships is all we'll see of them from this point on.
3) Uniting house Tyrell and House...uh...Sand under the Targaryen name. This is another interesting one because it's eliminated House Tyrell and the queen/heir to Highgarden under the same circumstances that they dispatched the Martells. With Margaery, Mace, and Loras all in the exploding room, they no longer have need for any more conversations between Reach characters. Olenna is their sole representative, and we'll probably never see her again because her sole function was to either scheme or put other characters in their place. It seems like most houses are being reduced down to a spokesperson irrespective of political realities because this is a television show where certain actors command more screen time than others. That's just how it is, sadly.
1) A Game of Queens - The show needed all the male leaders replaced by female ones, or usurped/killed by them at the very least. You have Dany, Ellaria, Yara, Cersei, Sansa, Arya all making huge power plays and killing male leaders, or trying to.
2) The fewer characters, the better. Dan and Dave have repeated this line about playing the game with fewer pieces, and it's clear that this reasoning along with #1 was why they chose to end the Martell line, while putting Ellaria in charge. It doesn't make any sense that all the houses of Dorne would be okay with this, but if they had left Doran in charge, they would have had to film more Dorne scenes. The location of Dorne is done with the show. I predict a banner on a bunch of ships is all we'll see of them from this point on.
3) Uniting house Tyrell and House...uh...Sand under the Targaryen name. This is another interesting one because it's eliminated House Tyrell and the queen/heir to Highgarden under the same circumstances that they dispatched the Martells. With Margaery, Mace, and Loras all in the exploding room, they no longer have need for any more conversations between Reach characters. Olenna is their sole representative, and we'll probably never see her again because her sole function was to either scheme or put other characters in their place. It seems like most houses are being reduced down to a spokesperson irrespective of political realities because this is a television show where certain actors command more screen time than others. That's just how it is, sadly.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah I was wondering if they got a stunt double to switch when he walked off screen. It's simple enough but some people have trouble with free falls like that even with a net or cushion. Maybe even more so with younger actors.
Could have totally been him, though.
Well I know all that but there are better, more logical ways.
Turn Doran into a hidden Targaryen restorationist despite what Ellaria thought. Boom. None of the idiocy involved. And you don't have to see Doran again just like Olenna.
Well a Great Council is not the small council.
A Great Council would typically include all the Lord Paramounts or at least all the ones loyal to the crown.
I suppose that's Cersei and whoever Walder Frey's heir is if Cersei has more than the Westerlands and Crownlands on her side.
Well yeah Cersei would do that but there's no evidence in the show that Ellaria has her own army or the support of the other houses in Dorne.
I believe the show wants us to assume that the Dornish guards who watched as Doran was killed is enough proof that Dorne will get behind Ellaria and the Sand Snakes.
Our problem isn't that usurpers make of their own rules, it's that the showrunners are doing the same thing.
They know the show better than we ever will.
One day someone will compile a list of every time this has been said in the show.
That and, "You're not as smart as you think you are.
That and, "You're not as smart as you think you are.
That would require more time focused on Dorne. And I think this season proved they only want to spend as much time on Dorne as is required for the plot.
Ellaria straight up says that the Dornish people are disgusted with Doran in the scene you're talking about.
People are disgusted with the Lannisters. You don't see random women walking into the throne room and cutting Tommen's head off.
Something something bad pussy
bitbydeath
Member
No but we did see Cersei kill everyone he aligned with, if he wasn't her son she would have killed him too.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
She just glommed onto it after Kevan died. Legally, Jamie has a stronger claim.
Well no. Cersei inherited it after Tywin died.
Sons come first in the line of succession. Jaime was KG at time and Tyrion was attainted. Next comes daughters so Cersei gets it.
Kevan would only get it if Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella all died without having anymore children.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
No. The actual succession was unclear. That's about as deep as it went.
Cerci only ever claimed that at her coronation.
I mean Cersei is Lady of Casterly Rock in the books not Kevan.
Nothing says it's been changed here and no one calls Kevan the Lord of Casterly Rock.
At least for Ellaria, things have always worked different in Dorne compared to the other kingdoms.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
When did the show ever say this? At best, he was Lord in name only. Stannis was the Lord of Storms End and in open rebellion against the crown. Tommen may have controlled the region in name but still wasn't Lord of Dragonstone or Storms End.
And Kings usually didn't keep their lordship of their castle when they moved onto Kings Landing. Robert gave Storms End to Renly and the Targs always left Dragonstone to the heir apparent.
Unless the show says otherwise, Jaime is assumed the Lord of Casterly Rock.
In the show, Stannis doesn't hold Storm's End.
And well it does say otherwise because Jaime is referred to as Ser Jaime not Lord Jaime.
FootballFan
Member
What was the point in withholding Jon's true name?
Bots are better than you
Banned
Isn't the Iron Throne now pretty much open for everyone to claim it now? No Baratheons, no Lannister children. The only one from the Baratheon line, that could have a claim to the throne would be Gendry, but that's pretty much a no-go as he's a bastard. In the books there's also Mya Stone and Edric Storm, the latter even acknowledged to be Roberts son yet not legitimized.
That bastard stuff is also what pretty much prevents Jon from automatically getting the Iron Throne after his heritage is made public. Wonder if the show actually has something that makes Jon a legitim son of Rhaegar, like a document signed by Rhaegar. There's still Howland Reed from the books, could use him for something like this.
If Jaime doesn't inherit the title of Lord of Casterlyrock, then who is the current lord? Tywin dead, Kevan dead, Tyrion isn't even a contender due to his killing of his father, and since Cersei's plot was also the cause of death of Kevan, i don't see her getting the title either.
That bastard stuff is also what pretty much prevents Jon from automatically getting the Iron Throne after his heritage is made public. Wonder if the show actually has something that makes Jon a legitim son of Rhaegar, like a document signed by Rhaegar. There's still Howland Reed from the books, could use him for something like this.
I might be wrong, but wasn't Renly the Lord of Storms End, both in the books and the show?
If Jaime doesn't inherit the title of Lord of Casterlyrock, then who is the current lord? Tywin dead, Kevan dead, Tyrion isn't even a contender due to his killing of his father, and since Cersei's plot was also the cause of death of Kevan, i don't see her getting the title either.
You're not allowed to leave the thread alone, your avatar has to grace each and every ASoIaF/GoT thread now and in the future. #BestLord
It would have no meaning now. More effective dramatically to make it a mystery and then reveal it next year after context has been established via prophecies and flashbacks. Then viewers will suddenly go "ooooooooh" and spend all week talking about it. That's how you do modern tv.
No but I haven't read the books since ADWD came out and I don't remember that scene... In fact I don't remember much of the books at all.
Well Jon has already been legitimized in the show by the Northern lords. He's now Jon Stark. Robb's will in the books also legitimized him.
Renly was the Lord of the Stormlands in both books and show but once Renly died it passed down to Stannis. Stannis is still the Lord of Storm's End in the books. In the show, Tommen is the Lord of the Stormlands and Storm's End.
Cersei is the Lady of Casterly Rock. She's been the lady of Casterly Rock since Tywin died just like in the books.
The Tower of Joy is one book one but a lot of the context around that scene has been heavily implied and foreshadowed since the beginning
PHOENIXZERO
Member
"Promise me Ned" was a pretty big thing that haunted Ned in AGoT.
I watched that and was surprised by how young she looked and her voice being off, then I saw it's all because it's a 2001 Dutch movie that was dubbed into English in 2011.
I watched that and was surprised by how young she looked and her voice being off, then I saw it's all because it's a 2001 Dutch movie that was dubbed into English in 2011.
hendersonhank
Member
Bran bringing down the magic of the Wall by crossing it after being touched by the Night King doesn't make a lick of sense. Otherwise the NK would have just touched somebody thousands of years ago and let him cross back to nullify the magic. For example, the deserter that Ned killed at the beginning of the series.
The magic of the cave was some Children of the Forest stuff, the Wall is something else as far as I know.
The magic of the cave was some Children of the Forest stuff, the Wall is something else as far as I know.
elrechazado
Banned
Your problem is assuming the show has any actual internal logical consistency
wesleyshark
Banned
To save it for more flashbacks next season. Or for that Howland Reed arrival that seems less and less likely to happen haha.
wesleyshark
Banned
Howland Reed = Maester Marwyn lol
Bots are better than you
Banned
Come on, it's more likely that Reed shows that Littlefinger and Varys aren't the only ones with teleporting skills and just happily enters the Great Hall of Winterfell just seconds after Jon was proclaimed King in the North! You could really try to make some true predictions. ;]
"Bran we'll never get south this way, I'm too weak, I'm sorry!"
"Hold on to something."
A large shadow covers them both.
*On Dany's ship*
"Why are there only two dragons following us?"
*Cut to Bran and Meera riding a warged dragon*
"Wooooohoooooooooo!"
IggyChooChoo
Member
I like this theory. One of the things I'm most looking forward to in TWOW is seeing Stannis's character get treated better than in the show.
Yeah I really don't get that theory that a mere mark can bring down the wall.
The magic of the 3ER cave was more about being hidden. The Wall is obviously more powerful than that.
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