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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 Offseason Thread

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N

nOoblet16

Member
Black_Sun said:
One thing I enjoyed about the last episode is that Jon's nickname "the White Wolf" is a clear homage to Elric of Melnibone.

(Bloodraven was based off of Elric in the same way that Robert is Conan and Jon Snow is Aragorn)
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What about Geralt of Rivia who is called the White Wolf? :p
 
A

Apt101

Member
GRRM once wrote about how he was interested in some story about an imposter to the throne. I don't recall if he outright said that was the inspiration for Aegon/ young Griff, but I think it was heavily implied. He's a Blackfyre.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
Apt101 said:
GRRM once wrote about how he was interested in some story about an imposter to the throne. I don't recall if he outright said that was the inspiration for Aegon/ young Griff, but I think it was heavily implied. He's a Blackfyre.
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I think it was along the lines of subjugation of tropes. Dany is obviously a "chosen one" archetype, and throwing Young Griff into the mix adds another layer, and makes her claim either not as legitimate, or more difficult to attain.
 
H

HolySheep

Neo Member
Apt101 said:
GRRM once wrote about how he was interested in some story about an imposter to the throne. I don't recall if he outright said that was the inspiration for Aegon/ young Griff, but I think it was heavily implied. He's a Blackfyre.
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Theres also that dragon sign where the black dragon part of the sign washed ashore, but was now rusted so that it appeared red. Blackfyre is the black dragon and the targs use the red dragon. Wasnt the golden company also founded by a blackfyre? I would be surprised if it turns out he is not a blackfyre.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
HolySheep said:
Theres also that dragon sign where the black dragon part of the sign washed ashore, but was now rusted so that it appeared red. Blackfyre is the black dragon and the targs use the red dragon. Wasnt the golden company also founded by a blackfyre? I would be surprised if it turns out he is not a blackfyre.
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Yeah the Golden Company was a company of sellswords founded by Aegor Rivers, one of Aegon IV's legitimized bastard sons.
 
A

Apt101

Member
HolySheep said:
Theres also that dragon sign where the black dragon part of the sign washed ashore, but was now rusted so that it appeared red. Blackfyre is the black dragon and the targs use the red dragon. Wasnt the golden company also founded by a blackfyre? I would be surprised if it turns out he is not a blackfyre.
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Yes, Bittersteel was pretty much the preeminent Blackfyre after he fled Westeros. The other would be Brynden Rivers / The Three-Eyed Crow but he was a loyalist and refused the Blackfyre title.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Apt101 said:
Yes, Bittersteel was pretty much the preeminent Blackfyre after he fled Westeros. The other would be Brynden Rivers / The Three-Eyed Crow but he was a loyalist and refused the Blackfyre title.
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Neither were blackfyres. Daemon took the house name blackfyre after being legitimized. Based on the sword his father gave him. His sons continued the name. Daemon's rebellion was the blackfyre rebellion, named after him. Brynden and aegor rivers were not blackfyres, but were his greatest enemy and greatest supports, respectively.
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
elrechazado said:
Neither were blackfyres. Daemon took the house name blackfyre after being legitimized. Based on the sword his father gave him. His sons continued the name. Daemon's rebellion was the blackfyre rebellion, named after him. Brynden and aegor rivers were not blackfyres, but were his greatest enemy and greatest supports, respectively.
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Right. The Golden Company was founded by Bittersteel (Aegor), after the end of the first Blackfyre rebellion.
 
A

Apt101

Member
elrechazado said:
Neither were blackfyres. Daemon took the house name blackfyre after being legitimized. Based on the sword his father gave him. His sons continued the name. Daemon's rebellion was the blackfyre rebellion, named after him. Brynden and aegor rivers were not blackfyres, but were his greatest enemy and greatest supports, respectively.
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All of Aegon IV Targaryen's bastards were legitimized and therefore Blackfyres.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Apt101 said:
All of Aegon IV Targaryen's bastards were legitimized and therefore Blackfyres.
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No, they were all legitimized but were absolutely not blackfyres.
Those with noble mothers were called the great or grand bastards. Only daemon blackfyre and his house were blackfyres.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
There was also an early version of a Tyrion chapter in which en route to Volantis, he overhears them whispering in Pentoshi or some low Valyrian language about a sword, the sword presumably being Blackfyre. The sword reference was not in the published version, though.
 
A

Apt101

Member
elrechazado said:
No, they were all legitimized but were absolutely not blackfyres.
Those with noble mothers were called the great or grand bastards. Only daemon blackfyre and his house were blackfyres.
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Maybe I'm confused by the minutiae. I assumed that once all of his bastards were legitimized and House Blackfyre was founded they were all referred to as Blackfyres. I know some refused the title, such as Brynden.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Apt101 said:
Maybe I'm confused by the minutiae. I assumed that once all of his bastards were legitimized and House Blackfyre was founded they were all referred to as Blackfyres. I know some refused the title, such as Brynden.
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It's not a crazy thing to be confused by. Reading dunk and egg and awoiaf make it crystal clear though.
 
K

KahooTs

Member
CloudWolf said:
It's wishful thinking. There are perfectly sound reasons for Tywin's word choice that have nothing to do with that frankly absurd theory.
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Absurd theory? As if all the shit wasn't suggestive enough he drops Aerys lusting after Joanna in ADWD then goes out of his way to put Joanna and Aerys in the same place at the time Tyrion would have been conceived, and have something occur that upset Tywin so much he tried to resign. It is quite clearly being cultivated.

Tyrion is going to ride Viserion, which if there was no doubt about Tyrion's all Lannister heritage would mean an end to the question of if one needs Targ blood to ride a dragon. A question he's obviously trying very hard to keep unanswered.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
I have a feeling that Aegon is going to be popular, competent, have sympathy for the small folk, defeat Cersei, and generally come across as someone who would be a genuinely good king for Westeros (even if he is just a Blackfyre who thinks he's a Targaryen). Then Dany will show up and burn him alive. Not sure how the Others, Euron the God Killer or Jon (or other smaller factions like the Citadel, Faceless Men, the Church of the Seven) will play into that.
 
J

JakeD

Member
Tyrion doesn't need to be a targaryen to ride a dragon, there were several non targaryen dragon riders in The Dance Of The Dragons civil war
 
W

wesleyshark

Banned
CrossTrigger said:
But Beric should be dead then. If they are following that by the book of course.
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Yeah, if LSH exists already, then Beric would be dead. *IF* they are going to do LSH, it won't be Catelyn. It would either be Arya or Sansa. But at this point, that seems highly, highly unlikely.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- S7 director list from EW:
Here are the directors signed on for season 7:

– Alan Taylor: An Emmy-winning veteran of The Sopranos, Taylor helped pioneer the visual storytelling style of the show when he helmed the pivotal ninth and 10th episodes of season 1, particularly “Baelor” (the episode where Ned Stark was executed). The Thrones producers were so impressed they gave Taylor four episodes to helm in season 2 – including the premiere and the finale. Then Marvel snatched him up for Thor: The Dark World followed by Taylor reuniting with Emilia Clarke to direct her big-screen role in Terminator: Genisys. Now he’s back on Thrones for the first time since 2012.

– Jeremy Podeswa: The Canadian director and Boardwalk Empire veteran scored an Emmy nomination for directing the show’s most controversial hour, season 5’s darkly tense “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.” This year he directed the propulsive season premiere as well as Jon Snow’s riveting resurrection episode, “Home.”

– Mark Mylod: A four-time director on the show, the British veteran of Showtime’s Shameless and HBO’s Entourage took on this season’s uniquely textured re-introduction of the The Hound in “The Broken Man,” as well as Arya’s exciting chase sequence in “No One.”

– Matt Shakman: A newcomer to the series. Shakman is best known for his work on FX’s It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, a comedy loved by Benioff and Weiss (the showrunners even wrote an episode, “Flowers for Charlie,” although it’s not one of the 39 episodes Shakman has directed). Shakman has also helmed episodes of AMC’s Mad Men, CBS’ The Good Wife and FX’s Fargo.
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There are a few notable GoT veterans sitting out next year, such as Miguel Sapochnik – the director of this season’s hugely impressive “Battle of the Bastards” and Sunday’s explosive finale. Also: The Red Wedding helmer David Nutter, who won an Emmy for directing season 5’s finale, “Mother’s Mercy.” But perhaps they’ll return for the eighth (and presumed final) season?
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Bummer about Sapochnik. More info via the link.
 
H

Human Trashcan

Banned
Tyrion is a Targaryen. I am will to ride that one all the way to the bank. It's possible, even likely, that we'll never get 100% confirmation, but I still absolutely think he's a Targ.

edit: oof, bummer that they lost far and away their best director
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
CloudWolf said:
The mummer's dragon quote could be taken both ways though. Sure, the most obvious meaning is that he's a fake dragon, but there's also the interpretation that it means "dragon of the mummer", which would indicate that he is a real Targ and in service of Varys who used to be part of a mummer's troupe.
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Dany's House Of The Undying vision about being the "slayer of lies" seems to seal the deal though. The "cloth dragon" of course being listed as one of the lies she will expose.
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
The director of Arya's exciting chase sequence, the director of that amazing Sand Snakes vs Jaime and Bronn scene and the director of Thor The Dark World and Terminator Genisys. It's going to be an amazing season.
 
E

Euron

Member
The biggest twist I can see GRRM pulling is Aegon being a great king. We've waited so long for Dany yet she'll end up being a much worse option and look like a usurper to her own house.
 
E

EktorOni

Member
Disappointing not seeing the names of Sapochnik, Bender or Nutter here, but hey! At least we got Alan Taylor back. Hopefully he'll be able to rise above the trainwrecks that were THOR 2 and Terminator: Genysys (ugh). I really liked his 4 episodes back in S1 and S2 (Baelor being the standout).
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
Euron said:
The biggest twist I can see GRRM pulling is Aegon being a great king. We've waited so long for Dany yet she'll end up being a much worse option and look like a usurper to her own house.
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I really hope that in the end Dany turns out to be a villain and this is one of the ways I can see it go down.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Euron said:
The biggest twist I can see GRRM pulling is Aegon being a great king. We've waited so long for Dany yet she'll end up being a much worse option and look like a usurper to her own house.
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I expect Aegon to conquer King's Landing and have the support of the people, and be considered a great King...for a brief period of time. Then the Greyscale plague starts, and wipes out half of the population. Then Daenerys shows up and doesn't know what to do, and decides she wants the throne for herself (not bend the knee to her nephew), and then everyone ends up hating both.

It works for 2 reasons:

1) The 'perfect king' is undone by things outside his control.
2) The entitled queen is undone by her lust for power at the expense of earning it (like most of her story).

I don't think the show will go down like that, obviously (they probably want a fairy-tale ending), but I have little doubt that in the books Daenerys will not sit on the Iron Throne at the end.
 
A

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Cornballer said:
- S7 director list from EW:Bummer about Sapochnik. More info via the link.
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No Bender, no Sapochnik, no Nutter, and of all goddamn people who should've been given the boot, Mark Mylod is still in.
Seriously, after that interview about Arya, Mylod has none of my trust. Not even a speck.
We'll manage, hopefully...
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
I'd love for Aegon to be a great king, mostly because I really still don't buy the "Dany is a villain" angle. It needs something to actually cement that idea, if that's the intent, and her essentially usurping a great king would definitely do that.
 
G

God Dayumm

Banned
Dany will learn that dragons exist for greater purposes than kingship and conquest. She will leave the throne to her nephew because he will make a great king (despite being a fake) and embark on the war against the Others, and then travel the world to put an end to slavery and injustice. She may not be the queen, but she is the shield that protects the kingdoms and her children on both sides of the sea.
 
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