Oldest Snake
Member
I don't think he did. A large part of the reason Tyrion did that was because he wanted to hurt Jaime for covering for Tywin re: Tysha. With her role dropped from the story at that point there wasn't really any need for it.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
I don't think he did. A large part of the reason Tyrion did that was because he wanted to hurt Jaime for covering for Tywin re: Tysha. With her role dropped from the story at that point there wasn't really any need for it.
It could add some weight to Jaime finally disconnecting with cersei when he gives her proof of tyrions innocence with joffrey and she basically doesn't care. Combined with the other things she said about cersei in that scene it makes sense
In more relevant news, he also posted some art for an ASOIAF calendar
Atraveller
Banned
I really loved what Cersei has done to the Tyene and Ellaria. I thought she would just throw them to Gregor and call it a day. Now this is a proper, satisfying revenge!
SodiumBenzoate
Member
Episode 4 has leaked so I would stay off Twitter/the greater GoT internet if you're really sensitive about spoilers..
He doesn't have proof, though. Ollena didn't work alone (Dontos and Littlefinger helped) so there's no reason her confession should absolve anyone else.
I just re-watched the scene before Tywin dies and Tyrion didn't tell Jamie he killed Joffrey. I guess that's where the whitewashing of Tyrion began.
The plot has been out there for months, just don't obsess about it on twitter and you will be fine.
It began way before then. The show acted like he actually loved Shae or how he treated Sansa on their wedding night.
The whitewashing has always been present in the show.
Psychoward
Banned
chicken_pasta
Banned
So the Episode 4 really leaked. Not the script, but the episode itself. Watch out, y'all, the social networks are dark and filled with spoilers.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Should be fixed with adding "I am the three eyed crow" on every response.
this is from the HBO hack?
chicken_pasta
Banned
I thought so, but a poster said something about an HBO subsidiary from India, and it seems that's the case.
Not entirely connected but they say the hackers will release the rest on Sunday. Not sure if they meant script outlines or video form.
Anyone else watch Alt Shift X's analyses?
Here's the one for episode 3. It sounds like he's getting fed up with the geographical and travelling shenanigans of the show (among other things). He also brings something (sadly) interesting, how Jon's resurrection has mattered very little and how it hasn't reflected any changes in Jon Snow. I definitely expect the book to be better about it, and for Jon to be treated as more of a messianic figure. Honestly I expect TWOW to be completely different and for the people that insist that D&D are following some guideline to finally shut the fuck up. If it ever comes out!
Here's the one for episode 3. It sounds like he's getting fed up with the geographical and travelling shenanigans of the show (among other things). He also brings something (sadly) interesting, how Jon's resurrection has mattered very little and how it hasn't reflected any changes in Jon Snow. I definitely expect the book to be better about it, and for Jon to be treated as more of a messianic figure. Honestly I expect TWOW to be completely different and for the people that insist that D&D are following some guideline to finally shut the fuck up. If it ever comes out!
it's weird because Bran has a sudden shift in character after what he has experienced, and Jon remains the same.
To be fair the security guards probably weren't even born the last time he took something into his publishers offices.
Latvian Hitman
Member
I'm generally OK with time jumping in order to speed things like movement around the map up, etc., but the logistics of what's happening in the war are a different story. The leaps of logic the writers are asking me to make are just too great. The biggest recent example being the Lannister/Tarly siege of Highgarden. In the best of circumstances, the Lannister/Tarly forces should have taken extremely heavy losses trying to take what is an easily defensible position. Moreover, there's no way such a large force can be moved across that much open territory with no warning of its impending arrival. This is all explained away by being informed that the Tyrells simply "suck at fighting." That's just not good enough for me. Defending a fortified position is a hell of a lot easier than taking one.
That whole scenario could have played out much better by having Tarly and his forces pull a double-cross from the inside, or by having the Lannister forces wait for the Tyrell forces to leave Highgarden en route to KL (that's what the plan was, right?) and then engage them on neutral ground between Highgarden and KL. Then, the whole "Tyrells suck at fighting" excuse could have actually meant something.
As for the handling of Jon's death/revival- it appears that in the show this was nothing more than a convenient way to get Jon out of the Watch. I'd expect Martin's handling to be entirely different. What else could we expect from D&D, though? This is just what they do...
My guess is D&D wouldn't want to risk alienating show-only fans by making stark changes to Jon's characterization. So they give him a fucking man-bun and say job well done.
Jon's story is still what I'm looking forward to most in Winds but I am concerned GRRM will barely move anything along overall.
Jon's story is still what I'm looking forward to most in Winds but I am concerned GRRM will barely move anything along overall.
StopMakingSense
Member
I see what you did there.
I am glad I don't pay much attention to social media.
chicken_pasta
Banned
Guys, Bran has seen things. Jon just lay on a bed. Please leave zombie bran alone.
GRRM's interview, where he talked about Beric slowly turning into a wight driven by fire, instead of ice, was pretty cool.
GRRM's interview, where he talked about Beric slowly turning into a wight driven by fire, instead of ice, was pretty cool.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Nice, it's out. I'll watch it now.
Regarding Jon's resurrection, it does seem like he's kinda the same, but he did go through a mini arc last season of being all depressed and faithless right after he got rezzed, into finding something to fight for. Still, I think I see where ASX's criticisms are coming from. I'll have to listen.
BossDarkseid
Member
Considering GRRM said he thought death & resurrection was pointless unless there was a significant cost/change in the character, Jon is either NOT coming back in the books or it will be markedly different to the show. If he ever told them that part of his notes i feel like the meaning flew over their head, and I don't mean to rag on them but sometimes it feels like they can't see the forest for the trees in terms of themes/allegories/implications.
Ros8105
Member
Man, the Lannister soldiers fight out of fear/the unsullied for freedom thing is real bullshit.
Ocarina_117
Banned
The largest change to Jon's character was when he was ready to flee some place warm with Sansa. Other than that there's been no change to his character.
There is still time and space for Jon having died and come back to mean something to the plot, but as it stands it is nothing more than a manipulative end of season cliffhanger, and the show usually finds less cheap ways of leaving you wanting more than that.
Having said that, Jon's the most interesting that he has ever been now. Not necessarily because his character has gotten deeper, but because of the situations he now finds himself in that he is actually doing things with other members of the main cast, as opposed to hanging out with a bunch of scruffy side characters. So I don't need them to focus on it, but if they don't make something of it, it will remain a dumb part of the show that didn't really need to happen, because it adds absolutely zero to what it happening now only a season later.
Having said that, Jon's the most interesting that he has ever been now. Not necessarily because his character has gotten deeper, but because of the situations he now finds himself in that he is actually doing things with other members of the main cast, as opposed to hanging out with a bunch of scruffy side characters. So I don't need them to focus on it, but if they don't make something of it, it will remain a dumb part of the show that didn't really need to happen, because it adds absolutely zero to what it happening now only a season later.
I thought it was heavily implied that this is what happened. For starters, Cersei's forces have been one step ahead of Tyrion's plan from the get-go, and we knew the Tyrell army was going to siege King's Landing. It's not a big jump to say they planned to siege Highgarden while it had a skeleton crew defending it. When Olenna asks how they fought, Jamie says "As well as could be expected." That sounds like the Tyrell's were hopelessly outnumbered from the get-go.
This is perfect.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I would also think this was the conscious decision, I'm sure the books will display a more significant change in his demeanor - always helps to have the internal monologue that the books provide in cases such as this
I mean, even show Thoros still smiles and emotes a bit of personality, and that's after countless resurrections
How dare you disparage the best character on the show
Tormund excepted.
Thoros is the guy who does the reviving, I think, it's Beric who has been revived. Also, I don't think he's really gone through much of a change either. Maybe from who he was before he died the first time, but we barely knew him. He's died once on screen since the first time and he seems to be exactly the same. He's got a personality, a wry sense of humour, and seems to be a fairly affable and moral person. He's got the physical scarring from his deaths but I think in the show, dying and coming back just doesn't really have much of an effect, his dramatic speech about being a little less every time put aside. That could be taken to mean anything.
The best thing about TWOW is that you can always have faith that it'll be better, because it'll never come out.
The dozen chapters already released are light years beyond what's on the show.
Hahaha if you say so.
Can the three eyed crow see the 100% future or just the most likely future that can be changed? If the 100% future it's actually kind of lame. Like I know the future and there's literally nothing you can do to stop it. You can try, but some other events will then fall into place to make sure what you don't want to happen does happen.
Pffttt
Jon's dying is just to get him out of his Nights Watch oath as far as the books are concerned. I wouldn't be mad if he didn't change much. The other 2 instances of dying and being revived were very different circumstances from Jon's. Beric had been revived multiple times and Cat was dead for a long time before revived. You can see those resurrections have repercussions. You also have the fact that Jon warged into Ghost before he actually "died" as another variable.
Whoops, yeah. Certainly meant Berric
LifEndz
Member
Does anyone think they'll use his resurrection as a way to get around that curse placed on Danny (when the sun rises in the west, when the mountains yadda yadda and all that jazz).
Ocarina_117
Banned
The preview chapters have been fantastic though? The show isn't exactly a staple of fantastic writing anymore.
The Aeron preview chapter, linked earlier in this thread, was a fantastic showing of Euron - definitely better than anything in the show (of Euron) so far.
Edit - Also what's with these very reductive replies? The original poster made a point and you both reply in a condescending manner. It's quite pointless, doesn't promote discussion or anything. I'd genuinely like to know why you'd be negative on the preview chapters? I read AFFC and ADWD quite late and still found both enjoyable, though I understand people's complaints of them being heavily padded. The preview chapters have been a massive improvement on this front, given we can't fully judge until we read them in the context of the book.
With regards to Jon's Resurrection. I hope we see something familiar to either show Benjen or Cold Hands. A decaying body, but his mind remains fully intact as a result of warging into Ghost. The cost of victory against the others being the spell keeping him alive would be a bittersweet ending. I don't believe there will be an iron throne come the end of the books, and I hope the same of the series too.
LifEndz
Member
This just happened to me. I went on looking for an old Stern show clip to listen to and right on the front page where recommendations for parts of the leaked episode.
BossDarkseid
Member
I think you can delete your YouTube history and tick an option to not recommend you videos...might help
