Psychoward
Banned
Especially with how masterful they did in seasons 1-3 (note: this sentence could be applied to a bunch of shit)
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
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Psychoward
Banned
It would have to be Euron because then we wouldn't get Battle of the Bastards. Plus I don't have ptsd of how they fucked Stannis everytime Euron is on screen.Tell the truth. Would you rather have Ramsay still around invincibly flaying northerners or Euron's teleporting armada?
Two episodes in a row is fucking hilarious though.
My prediction for Daenery's next setback will be that Randyll Tarly will wipeout the Dothraki in an epic on screen battle.
The show has already highlighted Tarly's Westerosi nationalism and xenophobia, as this was the reason he decided to support Cersei over Daenerys. He doesn't want to see savage outsiders run rampant across Westeros and so it would be fitting for him to be the main general to stand against the Dothraki.
Since the first season characters in the show have had a very high opinion of Dothraki fighting ability, and everyone assumes they'd cut through chivalrous Westerosi knights like a hot knife through butter. Of course there's no evidence that this would be the case, as the Dothraki have never stepped out of Essos and come up against Westerosi armies. It would be a stunning upset and great drama if this Dothraki reputation is not all it's made out to be, and some clever tactics by Tarly, a reputed genius General, allow him to utterly destroy the Dothraki.
Additionally it makes sense for the Dothraki to die in a field somewhere for story reasons as well. It's not going to be a very good look for Dany if the Dothraki pillage Westerosi villages, rape women, tear down septs, and carry off religious artefacts. If this doesn't occur then it would be hard to believe that the Dothraki have changed and they would be capable of happily adjusting to Westerosi norms, becoming knights and occupying holdfasts. There's simply no place for the Dothraki in the story in the future. The Dothraki have to go away somehow and I bet we'll find out how soon.
I do remember in like season 1 Jorah was comparing Dothraki and Westerosi swords, saying the Dothraki's was designed to slash from horseback, but the typical longsword was made to punch through plate.
I'm not gonna be generous enough to say that they were foreshadowing the Dothraki getting stomped by Westerosi in Season 7, but yeah, the discrepancy in arms and armament is and always has been pretty obvious. Throw in the discipline of an actual army, the homefield advantage, and the fact that the Dothraki 100,000-strong horde is probably half women and children, and they're primed to get wrecked.
Not that any of that matters considering that, like someone earlier in the thread said, battles seem to be decided at this point by showing up and saying "I win!"
I don't really get the strategy. They had Dorne + Highgarden + Unsullied + Dorthraki. Which easily outnumber the Lannisters + Ehm, who is left? Euron is useless on land. The North doesn't care, the Vale is empty. Dump your troops in Dorne, march north and siege the castle. If you are worried about the citizens not accepting a Dorthraki siege, leave them in the back on their horses to scout around for ambushes and take on surprise attacks.
But I guess that would make for a more boring show.
The strategy, Tyrion's strategy, was for Dany to be loved as ruler above all else.
Landing on Dragonstone like Aegon, having Westerosi allies surround Cersei and proclaim Dany queen. Tyrion might also have suggested Dragonstone to keep the Dothraki out of Westeros as raping and pillaging would have built up resentment for generations.
The plan would have been fine if not for Euron bringing his ships to Cersei's aid and Randyll Tarly bringing support of the Reach lords. Tyrion miscalculated how able Cersei could gain allies, perhaps naively supposing that the Lords of Westeros would welcome Dany rather than fear and band against her.
Really Dany should have listened to Daario. She is a conquerer, she should have immediately have taken Kingslanding and installed herself as queen, everyone would have bent the knee once she was in place. Her hand seems to be forced now, she must take on Cersei directly, she must take Kingslanding, queen of the ashes be damned.
Psychoward
Banned
It's a downgrade from the big budget episodes of past seasons yeah but it's still better than some of the earlier season battles where they don't show it at all.I do remember in like season 1 Jorah was comparing Dothraki and Westerosi swords, saying the Dothraki's was designed to slash from horseback, but the typical longsword was made to punch through plate.
I'm not gonna be generous enough to say that they were foreshadowing the Dothraki getting stomped by Westerosi in Season 7, but yeah, the discrepancy in armament is pretty obvious. Throw in the discipline of an actual army, the homefield advantage, and the fact that the Dothraki 100,000-strong horde is probably half women and children, and they're primed to get wrecked.
Not that any of that matters considering that, like someone earlier in the thread said, battles seem to be decided at this point by showing up and saying "I win!"
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hydrophilic attack
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The strategy, Tyrion's strategy, was for Dany to be loved as ruler above all else.
Landing on Dragonstone like Aegon, having Westerosi allies surround Cersei and proclaim Dany queen. Tyrion might also have suggested Dragonstone to keep the Dothraki out of Westeros as raping and pillaging would have built up resentment for generations.
The plan would have been fine if not for Euron bringing his ships to Cersei's aid and Randyll Tarly bringing support of the Reach lords. Tyrion miscalculated how able Cersei could gain allies, perhaps naively supposing that the Lords of Westeros would welcome Dany rather than fear and band against her.
Really Dany should have listened to Daario. She is a conquerer, she should have immediately have taken Kingslanding and installed herself as queen, everyone would have bent the knee once she was in place. Her hand seems to be forced now, she must take on Cersei directly, she must take Kingslanding, queen of the ashes be damned.
Feels like they are adapting her ADWD arc, of Dany trying to go with a more peaceful route only to fail and eventually choose fire and blood, into this season instead of the last one
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The Artisan
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I thought Peters plan was to wait for Robin to die and marry Sansa himself, giving him control of the North and the East.
that would only work if Robin gets killed, which isn't out of the picture
Especially with how masterful they did in seasons 1-3 (note: this sentence could be applied to a bunch of shit)
It's not they did justice to his character either in those seasons.
Cousin killing and all.
I'm so disapointed with this season so far.
Everything just... happens, and not in the right way.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I feel like Davos should have mentioned his sons in the throne scene. I know he had less of them in the show die in Blackwater, but still. Talking about barely winning sounds like something I'd say after a game of Overwatch, not in reference to something that killed my children.
Thats because davos is such a bro he doesnt want to mess up the meeting with Jon.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Really strong writing this ep. Almost every scene popped except for the Sansa scenes because Sophie Turner's such a flat, atrocious actress.
Every scene with Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke is a black hole of charisma and charm.
Feels like they are adapting her ADWD arc, of Dany trying to go with a more peaceful route only to fail and eventually choose fire and blood, into this season instead of the last one
She has been walking the line between tyrant and beloved ruler since she got her Unsullied. How to sack Yunkai, how to take Mereen, how to quell Slavers' Bay. Eventually she been cornered into taking the tyrannical path, would there have been less bloodshed if she took that route from the beginning?
Tyrion's plan has fell to bits, thousands of her coalition of forces have been killed, the continent is almost in all out war. What has Dany gained from not just taking KL.
that would only work if Robin gets killed, which isn't out of the picture
They missed an opportunity to have Littlefinger receive a raven from King's Landing demanding that Littlefinger surrender Sansa, but I guess they wanted Cersei busy killing everyone else on the show.
Psychoward
Banned
Shout out to Bran for having a complete 180 character change for no reason too. I don't think Sophie Turner is that bad, at least not in this episode compared to fucking Bran (who was fine before)Really strong writing this ep. Almost every scene popped except for the Sansa scenes because Sophie Turner's such a flat, atrocious actress.
And yeah as someone else said Emilia is awful, Kit isn't great but he's still alright.
It's a downgrade from the big budget episodes of past seasons yeah but it's still better than some of the earlier season battles where they don't show it at all.
I don't mind them not showing battles, and while the Casterly Rock battle was pretty low-tier GoT action, I actually think the Greyjoy ship battle looked great despite a few confusing cuts. My issue is more with the lack of any sort of foundation or consideration for how the battles come to be or unfold.
Euron's notched two immediate flawless victories. Jamie, with the same army that's been worn down through years of war and that couldn't break Riverrun a few weeks prior, shows up to a thus far unscathed Highgarden that's just begun waging total war and breaks the siege and wipes out the Highgarden army in what-probably-wasn't-technically-a-day-but-they-definitely-made-it-look-like-a-day. Tyrion's sewer trickery was the best we've got, and it was actually a nice little nod back, but it also got immediately invalidated. And the entire army of Dorne seems to be written off now that a bastard and her bastards are dead and/or imprisoned.
Even just one preceding scene for each of these would've made a big difference. I mean, the ridiculousness of Euron tracking Yara in open ocean and landing a pitch black pinpoint accurate sneak attack would've been completely washed away if they, say, had a scene where some Ironborn were pissed off about Khaleesi not letting them raid and reave anymore so they sent Euron a raven and helped in the attack. It's a little bit of connective tissue that doesn't cost them anything but would make a significant general improvement.
A 30 second scene of Randyll Tarly betraying Olenna and simply opening the gates for Jaime would have made so much more sense than this dumb crap
This too.
It's fine - the plot is moving along and the show is still managing to preserve interesting character moments - but the macro political narrative and resulting battles feel reverse-engineered from a desired end state rather than being built up and executed in a sensible or logical manner.
Psychoward
Banned
Well there was that, but that was also how it happened in the book iirc. Stll annoying but I was more referring to seasons 2 and 3 with some of the Robb battles I think.
I actually think the plot would have been more interesting if Daenarys made a clean sweep of Westeros, became tyrannical and then Jon had to deal with the aftermath.
Everything about this war makes no sense and is so frustrating to watch
Edit - On another note, where are the Dornish infantry? Were the whole lot with the Sand Snakes? Also, are there unsullied left on the ground? Surely they can just march and take Lannisport for supplies?
Everything about this war makes no sense and is so frustrating to watch
Edit - On another note, where are the Dornish infantry? Were the whole lot with the Sand Snakes? Also, are there unsullied left on the ground? Surely they can just march and take Lannisport for supplies?
Nope.Well there was that, but that was also how it happened in the book iirc. Stll annoying but I was more referring to seasons 2 and 3 with some of the Robb battles I think.
I know there's no time for it in the show, but was hoping we'd get more scenes between Jon/Tyrion or Jon/Dany with Snow just explaining what he saw at Hardhome of the Night King and his forces. Instead of just the back and forth of whether or not Jon saw what he really saw. Just a sit-down over some wine or a heart to heart with Dany on those battlements of Dragonstone, Something.
You'd think if he was really gonna sell his position and his extreme need of dragonglass and help, then he'd have given more exposition and insight into what he saw.
You'd think if he was really gonna sell his position and his extreme need of dragonglass and help, then he'd have given more exposition and insight into what he saw.
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Human Trashcan
Banned
Not at all, I recall Tyrion actually fighting and seeing what happened.
Yeah I reread it not too long ago. Tywin put him on the van's flanks, against the river. He actually did a bunch of fighting.
If D and D aren't lying, they said the battle against Highgarden was not written because the knights of Highgarden aren't good fighters.
That's straight from them. So either George told them this or this was a creative decision, but I think Margaery deserved better.
A 30 second scene of Randyll Tarly betraying Olenna and simply opening the gates for Jaime would have made so much more sense than this dumb crap
hydrophilic attack
Member
Yeah I reread it not too long ago. Tywin put him on the van's flanks, against the river. He actually did a bunch of fighting.
Yup. Tywin put him in a position where he was supposed to fail. And Tywin's plan was ruined by Tyrion doing a lot better than he had expected
Isn't book Tyrion a bit of a berserker?
If Euron kills one of the Starks Arya can always become a boat and murder him.
I shot a booger out of my nose trying to suppress the laughter.
A pox on you.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Yup. Tywin put him in a position where he was supposed to fail. And Tywin's plan was ruined by Tyrion doing a lot better than he had expected
Isn't book Tyrion a bit of a berserker?
He kills a LOT of people with his axe, yeah. Once the combat high kicks in, he just kinda keeps going. I don't know that it's entirely credible given his stature, but being trained by a master of arms, mounted, and fighting a bunch of barely-trained men-at-arms, I guess it's possible. Mandon Moore would've easily killed him on the Blackwater if it wasn't for Pod though.
Psychoward
Banned
Nope.
Huh that's weird. I read the first one before the show too. Not sure why I remembered it like that.Not at all, I recall Tyrion actually fighting and seeing what happened.
Well I thought Euron's battle was horribly cut but the Casterly Rock siege was decently done with the exception of the end with the teleporting armada. My only real issue with it was Tyrion saying they'd win because they were freed and the Lannisters were fighting out of fear but not mention the fact that the unsullied were bred for war.I don't mind them not showing battles, and while the Casterly Rock battle was pretty low-tier GoT action, I actually think the Greyjoy ship battle looked great despite a few confusing cuts. My issue is more with the lack of any sort of foundation or general consideration for how the battles come to be or unfold.
Euron's notched two immediate flawless victories. Jamie, with the same army that's been worn down through years of war and that couldn't break Riverrun a few weeks prior, shows up to a thus far unscathed Highgarden that's just begun waging total war and breaks the siege and wipes out the Highgarden army in what-probably-wasn't-technically-a-day-but-they-definitely-made-it-look-like-a-day. Tyrion's sewer trickery was the best we've got, and it was actually a nice little nod back, but it also got immediately invalidated. And the entire army of Dorne seems to be written off now that a bastard and her bastards are dead and/or imprisoned.
Even just one preceding scene for each of these would've made a big difference. I mean, the ridiculousness of Euron tracking Yara in open ocean and landing a pitch black pinpoint accurate sneak attack would've been completely washed away if they, say, had a scene where some Ironborn were pissed off about Khaleesi not letting them raid and reave anymore so they sent Euron a raven and helped in the attack. It's a little bit of connective tissue that doesn't cost them anything but would make a significant general improvement.
It's fine - the plot is moving along and the show is still managing to preserve interesting character moments - but the macro political narrative and resulting battles feel reverse-engineered from a desired end state rather than being built up and executed in a sensible or logical manner.
But yes, the high garden siege and dornish army disappearance are straight up laughable. Like you said especially because in s6 they only overtook riverrun because of edmure and that was much less fortified and didn't have the mysterious case of the tyrell army disappearance. "Oh they were never proficient fighters so it makes sense". What.
And yes entirely agreed with your last point, season 7 feels like a checklist of events in order to reach the climax, without properly expanding on the events or letting things sit for gravitas.
Psychoward
Banned
Actually, have we seen a single tyrell or dornish fighter this season at all?
I love how at least the tyrell army somehow gets wiped out at high garden but meanwhile the dornish army is just nowhere to be found at all.
I love how at least the tyrell army somehow gets wiped out at high garden but meanwhile the dornish army is just nowhere to be found at all.
The Artisan
Member
They missed an opportunity to have Littlefinger receive a raven from King's Landing demanding that Littlefinger surrender Sansa, but I guess they wanted Cersei busy killing everyone else on the show.
Cersei kinda forgot about Littlefinger. Last time they saw each other he wanted to be named warden of the north, and then after the battle of the bastards he tells Sansa that he has declared for house Stark for all to hear. But he could've been bullshitting.
Especially with how masterful they did in seasons 1-3 (note: this sentence could be applied to a bunch of shit)
Jaime's characterization is the most clear example of how unprepared they were to keep the story going after they ran out of book material. Night and day difference between S1-3 and S4-current.
Actually, have we seen a single tyrell or dornish fighter this season at all?
I love how at least the tyrell army somehow gets wiped out at high garden but meanwhile the dornish army is just nowhere to be found at all.
I just assume whoever took over Dorne in the meantime is doing the usual Dorne thing and staying out of all of it.
Actually, have we seen a single tyrell or dornish fighter this season at all?
I love how at least the tyrell army somehow gets wiped out at high garden but meanwhile the dornish army is just nowhere to be found at all.
Presumably there were too many weak men in the Dornish army and Ellaria had them all killed.
Psychoward
Banned
Yup. It's tragic.Jaime's characterization is the most clear example of how unprepared they were to keep the story going after they ran out of book material. Night and day difference between S1-3 and S4-current.
Well they never actually show what happens in Dorne after Ellaria kills the prince dude who I always blank on his name (LOL) but in the planning scene in episode 2 they specifically mention the tyrell and dornish armies are going to siege king's landing. But, they never show them.I just assume whoever took over Dorne in the meantime is doing the usual Dorne thing and staying out of all of it.
They can't even blame it on that as they return to Jaime's book arc in season 6.Jaime's characterization is the most clear example of how unprepared they were to keep the story going after they ran out of book material. Night and day difference between S1-3 and S4-current.
He kills a LOT of people with his axe, yeah. Once the combat high kicks in, he just kinda keeps going. I don't know that it's entirely credible given his stature, but being trained by a master of arms, mounted, and fighting a bunch of barely-trained men-at-arms, I guess it's possible. Mandon Moore would've easily killed him on the Blackwater if it wasn't for Pod though.
I think the way the show did it was effective. Tyrion survives the attack of the Hill Tribes, then the Battle of the Greenfork then the Blackwater. Showing him constantly surviving and doing well despite his size dulls the suspense of him entering the fray..
And dulling the effect is why the battles in this episode were truncated. No point having a 20 minute sequence when there are few named characters involved. People dying in battle will get boring, picking and choosing what battles to show is smart television.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Everyone looks like garbage this season because they all wear ugly black leather and fabric outfits and stand in black rooms with black furniture looking really serious. I know winter is here but it's not like all the tailors in Westeros took time off from designing stuff. The scene in 7x03 where Qyburn, Cersei, Jaime and Euron are standing in the throne room, all wearing black outfits, and then it cuts to the royal audience which consists of like 200 people all wearing black? Give me a break.
Everyone looks like garbage this season because they all wear ugly black leather and fabric outfits and stand in black rooms with black furniture looking really serious. I know winter is here but it's not like all the tailors in Westeros took time off from designing stuff. The scene in 7x03 where Qyburn, Cersei, Jaime and Euron are standing in the throne room, all wearing black outfits, and then it cuts to the royal audience which consists of like 200 people all wearing black? Give me a break.
Everyone is into BDSM since the sept explosion and the Battle of the Bastards.
It's like they forgot that they have house colors or something.Everyone looks like garbage this season because they all wear ugly black leather and fabric outfits and stand in black rooms with black furniture looking really serious. I know winter is here but it's not like all the tailors in Westeros took time off from designing stuff. The scene in 7x03 where Qyburn, Cersei, Jaime and Euron are standing in the throne room, all wearing black outfits, and then it cuts to the royal audience which consists of like 200 people all wearing black? Give me a break.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I think the way the show did it was effective. Tyrion survives the attack of the Hill Tribes, then the Battle of the Greenfork then the Blackwater. Showing him constantly surviving and doing well despite his size dulls the suspense of him entering the fray..
And dulling the effect is why the battles in this episode were truncated. No point having a 20 minute sequence when there are few named characters involved. People dying in battle will get boring, picking and choosing what battles to show is smart television.
I have no problem with them not showing battles, per se, but the logic of how Jaime took Highgarden is just... nonexistent.
Actually, have we seen a single tyrell or dornish fighter this season at all?
I love how at least the tyrell army somehow gets wiped out at high garden but meanwhile the dornish army is just nowhere to be found at all.
For the Dornish, if they were gathering at Sunspear it is a hell of a long and hard march across the desert and through the mountains. And that is even if they have decided to march at all. With Ellaria captured/dead there is an even greater power vacuum and Lords in Dorne might not be willing to send their fighting men away.
Ocarina_117
Banned
For the leaps in logic taken to get there, the last 10 minutes were fantastic.
Well acted, well scripted, just a brilliant conversation. Wish it went on a bit longer.
Well acted, well scripted, just a brilliant conversation. Wish it went on a bit longer.