I can't believe I'm seeing this. Factor 5's work looks like on GameCube where Paradigm Simulations left of on Nintendo 64. Very impressive, even considering the pretty huge jump between N64 and GameCube hardware. Pilotwing 64 ran at 20-22 fps and Pilotwings / WiiFly looks like it was 60fps. -- I'm kinda stunning to see the footage and sad at the same time this game never saw the light of day.
Unseen64 publishes the history and footage of Factor 5's cancelled Pilotwings.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
Cow Mengde
Banned
Honestly, it would be amazing if Factor 5 brought this game back for The Switch. Right now the Switch still has gaps in it's software lineup. Even if not, it still looks and sounds amazing.
Does the Switch have a camera or any kind to do head tracking? It would still be fucking amazing to do VR with head tracking. I remember the illusion of 3D being so incredible with that head tracking demo. And that was us watching a demo filmed off a TV screen through youtube!!! Just thinking about it blows my mind.
I wonder if Digital Foundry could ever get their hands on the demo to do an analysis of the tech used in WeFly. The video is saying stuff like GLOBAL ILLUMINATION! On the fucking Wii! The footage of the water looks amazing, too. Think of what Factor 5 can do on The Switch. Shit, the game could probably output 4K at 60fps on the Switch.
Honestly, just call it DragonFly - The original prototype name for Pilotwings (demo) on early Super Famicom hardware.
https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/pilotwings-snes-proto/
EGM issue #2 (summer 1989)
EGM issue #18 (January 1991.
On a different but related note, Diehard GameFan's description of Pilotwings 64 is what prompted me to get an import N64 in summer 1996.
Nonsense. Factor 5 pitched a game to Nintendo, and Nintendo didnt pick it up. Thats usually how things go.
Nintendo didnt pull the rug out from under Factor 5.
Well, in the beginning what became Pilotwings really had a dragonfly to maneuver.
I still maintain that Super Mario 64 wasn't the only revolutionary software released near N64 launch.
Wave Race 64 with it's physics based gameplay and Pilotwings 64 with what at the time were considered big explorable island like Little States were stunning in 1996, miles ahead of the competition.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Well, in the beginning what became Pilotwings really had a dragonfly to maneuver.
I still maintain that Super Mario 64 wasn't the only revolutionary software released near N64 launch.
Wave Race 64 with it's physics based gameplay and Pilotwings 64 with what at the time were considered big explorable island like Little States were stunning in 1996, miles ahead of the competition.
Why is Pilotwings 64 so forgotten?
The game was well loved, and received high scores. Yet for whatever reason, the game is often forgotten by people. Sure, there are people clamoring for a sequel, but it's nowhere near as loud as people clamoring for a Wave Race sequel.
Nintendo really should bring these 2 games back on the Switch. Make an already awesome lineup even more amazing.
As a pure statistic, Wave Race 64 sold about thrice what Pilotwings 64 did.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700
The mystery is why Nintendo haven't yet re-release it on Virtual Console.
Maybe copyright issues?
You might be right, I'd assume it's similar to why Outrun 2 isn't released anymore: licensing complications with the owners of the jet-skis Wave Race 64 uses, Kawasaki.
I was referring to Pilotwings 64, Wave Race 64 is available on VC.
It never got a console successor in a similar style again and it was never re-released.
For some reason it wasn't part of the N64 VC.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Interesting. Pilotwings 64 came out when the N64 had very very VERY limited library of games, yet people didn't buy Pilotwings as much as Wave Race. But it's not like Wave Race came out with a lot of competition either. The game was only a few months behind the N64 launch.
Wave Race had multiplayer though. And IIRC the launch lineup was pretty single player heavy.
sixteen-bit
Member
Any chance this has been dumped for preservation purposes? Where does the WeFly footage come from?
Julian Eggebrecht
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
is he the one in this thread?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Factor 5 gave Unseen64 all of the footage.
Coinspinner
Member
Man, that looks like the PilotWings 64 sequel I always wanted.
Baron_Calamity
Member
The Wii was so successful and yet so many good games for it were never made. Just like the WiiU, minus the success part. It almost hurts to know they started down the track. Unlike this one which is only in my head:
I feel like the worst thing that happened to Pilotwings 64 was the game it launched alongside with in Super Mario 64. Who had the time to fly around in real world locations when you've got Super Mario 64 letting you fly around as Mario in all kinds of fantastical worlds? The big selling point for PW64 was already taken away from it.
titiklabingapat
Member
Nintendo was stupid for not funding it directly.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
True. They also had that cool animal wars concept which I believe they pitched to Sony.
Whom do you mean?
That's correct: https://www.unseen64.net/2011/11/10/animal-wars-ps3-cancelled/
(It was very violent).
Cow Mengde
Banned
They should do a live stream showing off the game or something one of these days. That or upload some lengthy gameplay videos.
Or just leak a playable build for homebrewers to enjoy, what's the harm at this point?
tauroxd
Member
Cow Mengde
Banned
They still look amazing to this day.
Someone is paying attention.
Glad that everyone likes the video, makes the team happy to have at least this out there. Its been a decade and folks are still not over this, Rogue Wii, or the Turrican reboot. Interestingly no one seems to be shedding a tear over Superman, though.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Please try and revive this for the Switch.
We love to know more about the technology behind these games. I mean, global illumination on the Wii!?
Actually, Rogue Wii while impressive, looks just like the GC game. Besides the changes in gameplay, what kind of effects did you push that wasn't in the original?
Seganomics
Member
I would buy a Switch immediately if a new Pilotwings was announced.
I understand it's probably easier said than done... but if possible, and if it's true what we've heard (Chris AND Manfred on board) please... do it.
You know I'll support it. (wink wink)
Superman is a beloved character but he never got good videogames adaptions.
Star Wars Rogue Squadron and Turrican on the other hand are known videogame series still beloved by old timers.
All I can say is that Nintendo is actively cultivating iconic '90s game styles / franchises for Switch because it's a good match up with the business strategy behind it.
People were surprised when DOOM was unveiled on Switch recently but not me.
It's just another '90s iconic franchise that land on Switch after Bomberman, Street Fighter 2, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Mana Collection, Square new but retro-feeling RPGs or other indie "retro inspired" games like Thimbleweed Park, Shovel Knight, Yooka Layle and so on.
Eh, you might be onto something.
Or at least that's definitely a strategy that resonate quite well with me (not that the Switch itself isn't an interesting concept per se, mind you... not to mention the games already released)
sixteen-bit
Member
MisterGrey3000
Member
Looks like Factor 5 was hungry while making WeFly.
Two seamless GTA-style open worlds.
1:1 interaction between the Wii's weather app and the game.
Head tracking camera control.
An ongoing day/night cycle accurate to every time zone.
All very impressive and clever stuff, it's honestly a shame that it all went down the drain...:/
Feels like it could have been a reasonable hit, especially with a push from Nintendo themselves.
Two seamless GTA-style open worlds.
1:1 interaction between the Wii's weather app and the game.
Head tracking camera control.
An ongoing day/night cycle accurate to every time zone.
All very impressive and clever stuff, it's honestly a shame that it all went down the drain...:/
Feels like it could have been a reasonable hit, especially with a push from Nintendo themselves.
The quick trailer we cut and that you likely saw didnt show much of the improvements that Rogue Wii had since we had to use game captures from the old games for a lot of the shots. The global illumination system used in WiiFly was first implemented in Rogue, and levels like Hoth and Bespin looked unbelievably good. Hoth in Rogue Wii looks like a lower-resolution version of Battflefront, but with everything else intact. We also exchanged the landscape engine for the new one, and with that you had infinitely more detail through normal maps in the landscapes. What you see in that WiiFly video Rogue also had and then some. Crazy things for the Wii like Ambient Occlusion, volumetric lightshafts, full-screen Anti-Aliasing and full normal maps for all assets in the games when on GameCube we often still used Bump Mapping. Of course the head tracking was in both games as well, as were a ton new particle effects and a new effects system specifically for Rogue and of course lets not forget that we did learn from the sins of the past and redid and changed all the weak spots of the original games. And yes, that included the redone character bits.
The lightsaber 1:1 combat was a level above Wii Sports Resort, had Force powers and a great set of locations and characters (including Darth Maul) and fully stretching the indoor engine to the max. We went to great lengths to be even more authentic, and integrated our video Decoders deep enough into the game that we were able to play video on any surface - making it possible to have the full original early CGI video of the death star attack schematic playing on the monitor in the back of the Rebel briefing room on Yavin. Last but not least, Chris Huelsbeck flew to Prague and recorded all of his original compositions for the Rogue games finally instead of Midi simulations with a real symphony orchestra. That finally made them flow with John Williams score so much more perfect.
So sad just thinking about it, but glad to answer a few questions.
The company that made Pilotwings 64 owns the engine that the game runs on. It is based on their in-house flight simulation programs that big companies use.
Cow Mengde
Banned
That explains everything. The trailer was blurry as hell, too. It was blurry even for 480p video. I just rewatched that trailer and compared to the WeFly video, and I could make out more of the details in WeFly than Rogue Wii.
Any chance we can get some clearer footage in the future? Maybe running at 60fps? Honestly, I thought Rogue Wii was just the original games, but running at a rock solid 60fps (cause there were some frame rate drops in the original).
Chances are, Digital Foundry Retro will look at your Star Wars games in the future. It would be amazing if you can give them footage for WeFly and Rogue Wii to have it compared with the Gamecube games.
My god. You would have embarrassed every single Wii 3rd party out there if these games were released.
I find the GC/Wii really interesting consoles. They were incredibly powerful (ok, the Wii less so), and easy to develop for. Yet barely anyone wanted to put the time and effort in to making the system sing. To this day, there are people that still thinks the PS2 is more powerful than the Gamecube. Yet here we are, a developer doing stuff that no one could imagine.
I think the VR feeling from head tracking alone would have blown people's minds back then. I think it would have been a huge hit if it came out during the Wii's life span. It has an interesting hook just like a lot of what the Wii's add-ons provided.
BTW, Turrican, do you still work with the current reborn Factor 5?
Man F5 was backing it up when they said other 3rd parties weren't pushing the Wii.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
😭😭😭😭
tauroxd
Member
Jesus, now all I want to do is cry. But it is awesome to at least now all of this. Thanks for the answers and details!
Cow Mengde
Banned
The secret sauce was there all along. It's called putting effort and using the system to its potential. It was inside the Wii all along.