Support NeoGAF

[Ozriel]

There's plenty of shit in my post-history that you can use as ammo to call me a fanboy or yadada, but my ability to read a paragraph is not one of them chief

Clearly couldn’t read the paragraph in the Washington Post interview. Or even the press release Sony just released where they admitted promising that Horizon would be covered by the free upgrade path.

You’re basically saying you know better than Sony what they promised. All because you can’t admit you were wrong.

 

[Kagey K]

Clearly couldn’t read the paragraph in the Washington Post interview. Or even the press release Sony just released where they admitted promising that Horizon would be covered by the free upgrade path.

You’re basically saying you know better than Sony what they promised. All because you can’t admit you were wrong.

Very few here can. That's why I respect the few that do admit they were wrong, when applicable.

I know I've had to eat some shit a couple times, and I'm not the only one.

The people that dig in against it are best left to thier own devices.

 

[GymWolf]

At least now we have all the info.



Even more when It is coming from a champ.

You wrote chump wrong.

 

[Kagey K]

You wrote chump wrong.

Autovorrect assuming the best.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Very few here can. That's why I respect the few that do admit they were wrong, when applicable.

I know I've had to eat some shit a couple times, and I'm not the only one.

The people that dig in against it are best left to thier own devices.

Yup.

I read into the Xbox online pricing more. They tried to double the fees. Instead of $60 full year, they tried pushing $60 for half a year. So doubling up was true. And I'm happy MS balked. They make enough money. I love Xbox box, but no doubt calling it like it is. A stupid price grab they 180'ed in 24 hours.

Now if only some gamers would hold Sony's Horizon FW claim for "free upgrade to PS5".

Then again, some people just got to protect the brand and balance sheets. Jim Ryan is even reversing it, yet still got to hold to their price grab. It doesn't even make sense.

1. Sony claims Horizon FW will get a free PS5 upgrade
2. Sony nixes free upgrades and tries to push separate copies hoping gamers double dip
3. Sony admits they messed up and reverses back to #1 which is their original message from a year ago - free upgrades

Why the fuck would someone defend sticking to #2?

 

[Kagey K]

Yup.

I read into the Xbox online pricing more. They tried to double the fees. Instead of $60 full year, they tried pushing $60 for half a year. So doubling up was true. And I'm happy MS balked. They make enough money. I love Xbox box, but no doubt calling it like it is. A stupid price grab they 180'ed in 24 hours.

Now if only some gamers would hold Sony's Horizon FW claim for "free upgrade to PS5".

Then again, some people just got to protect the brand and balance sheets. Jim Ryan is even reversing it, yet still got to hold to their price grab. It doesn't even make sense.

1. Sony claims Horizon FW will get a free PS5 upgrade
2. Sony nixes free upgrades and tries to push separate copies hoping gamers double dip
3. Sony admits they messed up and reverses back to #1 which is their original message from a year ago - free upgrades

Why the fuck would someone defend sticking to #2?

Imagine if another company ever did the same.

Nike says buy LeBron 21 and we will give you a pair of LeBron 22 for free.

Then says no you need to pay full price for LeBron 22 even though we told you you'd get LeBron 22 when you bought LeBron 21.

Now they say OK you can have both pairs for the price of one.

You forgive them because they made it right in the end? Or do you remember the ordeal it took to get that second pair?

 

[Trunim]

Why not just have the same price for both versions too....why buy the ps5 version...? I could just buy ps4 version and upgrade immediately...?

 

[Fess]

Good on them giving horizon for free as promised. But future titles still have a $10 tax, seriously? Why?

There is NO tax for "next gen" on PC or Xbox games studios.

My take away is if people make enough noise at the next release they will back down and make the upgrade free again. They actually listen to the community, if it’s noisy enough.

Makes you wonder, if people make enough noise about everything being cross-gen instead of ”we believe in generations” they were promised, will they consider back down on that as well?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Imagine if another company ever did the same.

Nike says buy LeBron 21 and we will give you a pair of LeBron 22 for free.

Then says no you need to pay full price for LeBron 22 even though we told you you'd get LeBron 22 when you bought LeBron 21.

Now they say OK you can have both pairs for the price of one.

You forgive them because they made it right in the end? Or do you remember the ordeal it took to get that second pair?

Totally. Some Sony fans will defend to the bone, even when Jim Ryan reverses it admitting a mistake.

Here's some similar situations:

1. Take Two says pre-order their next game and get free bonus perks. The game gets delayed a year. You get the game, but unknowingly they changed the deal and no more bonus perks. If you want them, pay up.

2. You buy a brand news house. The developer says you get free upgrades like better appliances or flooring as a perk for being an early bird buyer. Sounds good. The house gets delayed a year, but now the developer says you got to pay for new kitchen gear and better floors yourself.

3. Samsung says their next TV will have firmware upgrades to better specs, VRR and whatever shit that can be download into an OS update. Turns out it was BS. If you want those advanced features you got to buy one of their better TVs

 

[Kagey K]

Totally. Some Sony fans will defend to the bone, even when Jim Ryan reverses it admitting a mistake.

Here's some similar situations:

1. Take Two says pre-order their next game and get free bonus perks. The game gets delayed a year. You get the game, but unknowingly they changed the deal and no more bonus perks. If you want them, pay up.

2. You buy a brand news house. The developer says you get free upgrades like better appliances or flooring as a perk for being an early bird buyer. Sounds good. The house gets delayed a year, but now the developer says you got to pay for new kitchen gear and better floors yourself.

The house one is apt, given that lumber did take a drastic rise and fall this year.

Prebuying a car could be a great example as well.

The contract says it has all the bells and whistles, but then they try to charge you more for heated seats or a backup cam because it got delivered 6 months later.

Why are they trying to punish you? You gave them your money in advance for a product you paid for.

Yet it's somehow your fault they turned up late?

 

[THE DUCK]

So here's the summary:

Free ps5 upgrade for horizon
Oops nope, no free upgrade
Wait we got caught lying, so back to free upgrade

And for a bonus, out of the generosity of our hearts:

We have some other cross gen games, we are being greedy so $10 extra instead of just including the next gen versions as opposed to just making the game $60.

And, P.S
We believe in generations
Oops nope we don't believe in generations

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why not just have the same price for both versions too....why buy the ps5 version...? I could just buy ps4 version and upgrade immediately...?

Because they are trying to set a new standard $70 price tier. PS5 $70, PS4 $60.

They got caught as Sony said Horizon FW would get a free upgrade last year, so now they are stuck. You either stick to PS4 $60 and give free PS5 upgrades, or technically they could make PS4 version $70 and have free upgrades still making it $70.

Their future games are now stated as $10 upgrades as per Jim. So GOW, GT7 and whatever other cross gen games will be PS4 $60, PS4 +$10 = PS5 and straight up PS5 $70.

 

[Kagey K]

And, P.S
We believe in generations
Oops nope we don't believe in generations

They believe in generations, because they can't figure out how to make a save go back and forth between them.

They believe in charging you more for the next generation, even if it's mostly the same.

They believe they are worth more this generation than House and Shu were before them.

They fully believe in generations, just probably not how you the consumer had thought.

 

[eyesabitdull]

“this is bullshit, at least give us a $10 upgrade path”

Sony gives upgrade for free and announces $10 upgrade path for future games.

“this is bullshit, give us upgrades for free”

The entitlement here is wild.

Ya man, fuck everyone whining and groaning about this from day one until now.

Literally damned if you, damned if you dont with some of the people here.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Clearly couldn’t read the paragraph in the Washington Post interview. Or even the press release Sony just released where they admitted promising that Horizon would be covered by the free upgrade path.

You’re basically saying you know better than Sony what they promised. All because you can’t admit you were wrong.

I think i've said twice now that this was just a PR move to calm an angry mob. We knew it wasn't coming until the 2nd half of 2021 all the way back since last year, so i figured that was enough information to know Horizon doesn't fall under the "free upgrade for launch games", since it wasn't, you know, a launch game.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

“this is bullshit, at least give us a $10 upgrade path”

Sony gives upgrade for free and announces $10 upgrade path for future games.

“this is bullshit, give us upgrades for free”

The entitlement here is wild.

And how many gamers out there actually forgave the "free upgrade" in favour of "at least lets do a $10 fee"?

As for free upgrades in general. MS and PC devs seem to allow it. So why is Sony so hard in setting a new price tier and trying to it with the latest Horizon pricing issue and GoT's PS5 version behind a $30 Directors Cut DLC?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think i've said twice now that this was just a PR move to calm an angry mob. We knew it wasn't coming until the 2nd half of 2021 all the way back since last year, so i figured that was enough information to know Horizon doesn't fall under the "free upgrade for launch games", since it wasn't, you know, a launch game.

Sounds fair. I dont think anyone expected the game to come out at launch or even during the vague "holidays" season.

So if thats the case, why would Sony say Horizon FW would get a free PS5 upgrade during launch?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

on thursday you were going back and forth with me about how the upgrade path would still be a thing even though it clearly was not happening...and I was like wow your ignoring what is right in front of you, and you were like

"I can't willfully ignore something that doesn't exist my man"

so no you dont know how to read a paragraph chief.

You claimed Sony said there wasn't going to be an ugrade path. They never claimed anything

I simply told you we needed to wait until launch to see if this was just poor communication on there part like usual

Try again chief

 

[rofif]

So buy it on PS4 to save $10?

Also in case you were part of the camp that didn't believe gt7 was actually coming to PS4 Jimbo explicitly confirms it

Apparently so. This makes no sense then lol.

 

[FranXico]

Jimbo backtracked.

Last year we made a commitment to deliver free upgrades for our cross-gen launch titles, which included Horizon Forbidden West. While the pandemic’s profound impact pushed Forbidden West out of the launch window we initially envisioned, we will stand by our offer: Players who purchase Horizon Forbidden West on PlayStation 4 will be able to upgrade to the PlayStation 5 version for free.

I also want to confirm today that moving forward, PlayStation first-party exclusive cross-gen titles (newly releasing on PS4 & PS5)–both digital and physical*–will offer a $10 USD digital upgrade option from PS4 to PS5. This will apply to the next God of War and Gran Turismo 7, and any other exclusive cross-gen PS4 & PS5 title published by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

Pre-ordering in general is bad, but I'm glad people voted with their wallet.

 

[THE DUCK]

They believe in generations, because they can't figure out how to make a save go back and forth between them.

They believe in charging you more for the next generation, even if it's mostly the same.

They believe they are worth more this generation than House and Shu were before them.

They fully believe in generations, just probably not how you the consumer had thought.

No it's worse than that, they were sticking it to MS about generations in regards to the series S all the while they knew they were building multiple AAA games for a machine with about 1/4 the power. They went on and on about how they needed to make a clean break for innovation and then they didn't actually move on.

I dont blame them for making pa4 versions to make more money, but it was very two faced.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sounds fair. I dont think anyone expected the game to come out at launch or even during the vague "holidays" season.

So if thats the case, why would Sony say Horizon FW would get a free PS5 upgrade during launch?

You mean in the Washing Post interview? We'd need to see the transcript for that since it's just the author paraphrasing

The offical information was the blog post which only talked about the launch games. This is just the unfortunate fuck up on Sony's part for putting Horizon in the same conversation as Sackboy and Spiderman and allowing them extrapolate

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Pre-ordering in general is bad, but I'm glad people voted with their wallet.

Totally.

Only time pre-ordering is worth it is if a store gives one of those juicy 30% off or buy two get one free deals and you know you are a day one gamer and have a bunch of games youre buying the boxed copy anyway.

Or it's a super niche collector's edition with figurines, cloth maps and other trinkets, you think it'll sell out and they'll never make more again. Or some obscure JRPG everyone knows they'll only press 40,000 copies. So it's now or never or buying it off eBay from a hoarder for $200.

Other than that, pre-ordering games at regular price (especially digital copies!?!?!) seems like a waste of time.

 

[Kagey K]

No it's worse than that, they were sticking it to MS about generations in regards to the series S all the while they knew they were building multiple AAA games for a machine with about 1/4 the power. They went on and on about how they needed to make a clean break for innovation and then they didn't actually move on.

I dont blame them for making pa4 versions to make more money, but it was very two faced.

They definitely let MS eat a bunch of shit about that, while pretending they weren't doing the same.

I even said back then we'd see Sony 1st party offer cross gen games and got a bunch of hate for it.

But its just another way they eroded trust.

 

[Kagey K]

You mean in the Washing Post interview? We'd need to see the transcript for that since it's just the author paraphrasing

The offical information was the blog post which only talked about the launch games. This is just the unfortunate fuck up on Sony's part for putting Horizon in the same conversation as Sackboy and Spiderman and allowing them extrapolate

So even though Jim Ryan says he promised it, you need to see the full interview transcript to make sure he promised it?

We are at the pount we can't even take executive's word for it anymore? When they admit they said it

 

[evanft]

That's because xbox next gen titles don't have as many upgradable components.

In the example, Horizon, they literally have more foliage, and more coral and underwater is more detailed - i expect God of War will be like that too, not sure what GT will bring in that regard tho.

its not just and FPS or res boost like most Xbox games.

That's also why they are making all their new games (xbox) exclusive to next gen so they can avoid what sony is doing. It's easy to do when you have half the user base Sony has on last gen consoles.

Guys they need to charge $10 more for changing some variables in an .ini file.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So even though Jim Ryan says he promised it, you need to see the full interview transcript to make sure he promised it?

I'm saying in order to see what Jim Ryan said, we need to actually see what Jim Ryan said and in the actual context of the interviewer's question

Not what the author of the article thinks he said. It's easy to fuck things up like that when it's second hand

 

[Kagey K]

Guys they need to charge $10 more for changing some variables in an .ini file.

Gotta make sure Jim said it first, even after he admits ye said it, just in case he didn't really say it.

 

[FranXico]

Guys they need to charge $10 more for changing some variables in an .ini file.

And higher resolution assets, and other changes.

And I'll keep not pre-ordering nor buying full price. Easy.

 

[Kagey K]

I'm saying in order to see what Jim Ryan said, we need to actually see what Jim Ryan said and in the actual context of the interviewer's question

Not what the author of the article thinks he said.

Your need to see the full transcript is as apoarant as I need to know you ate corn last night to see you are full of shit.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Fuck off.

He says he said it, he retracted and made good on it.

Your need to see the full transcript is as apoarant as I need to know you ate corn last night to see you are full of shit.

Take a chill pill if you can't do this without being a twat

 

[Kagey K]

Take a chill pill if you can't do this without being a twat

Sure bud

I'm not the one questioning the head of a company.

Who's really the twat?

I'll give you a hint.....

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No it's worse than that, they were sticking it to MS about generations in regards to the series S all the while they knew they were building multiple AAA games for a machine with about 1/4 the power. They went on and on about how they needed to make a clean break for innovation and then they didn't actually move on.

I dont blame them for making pa4 versions to make more money, but it was very two faced.

Thats marketing for ya. New products come out for every company.

Most car companies will have a home page with a pull down menu letting you check 6 different models of cars from economy to a pimped up sports car. There's no hiding the company supports a wide range of vehicles.

They will separate brands into different home pages and websites trying to make it look like innovation happens in isolation when in reality the parent company's meat and potatoes sales and profits comes from Toyota Corollas and Camrys. They just dont want you to know that because if a someone wanting to buy a new Lexus is reminded it's R&D funding comes from the department that makes lower priced family sedans it hurts the image.

MS with Xbox is different as they embraced all their models into one and are open to people knowing game development is across the economy car and the luxury model. Sony is trying to pimp out a luxury model trying to persuade people the commoners are left in the dust. But the commoners are still being supported.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sure bud

I'm not the one questioning the head of a company.

Who's really the twat?

I'll give you a hint.....

It'd help if you read and understood what i'm actually saying

But I get it's hard to think when all that blood is going to your dick. Nothing excites you more than Sony fucking up eh?

 

[Kagey K]

It'd help if you read and understood what i'm actually saying

But I get it's hard to think when all that blood is going to your dick. Nothing excites you more than Sony fucking up eh?

I'm not wasting my time.

Waste of effort even trying with your sorry ass.

Name should be sorry ass waste of time.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

In written English it’s important to contextualise something as part of the whole paragraph it’s written in.

If I say;

‘The rabid dog broke in to my house. I was bitten. I contracted rabies’

It’s logical to conclude I was bitten by the dog.

It would be stupid as fuck for me to then say later ‘I actually contracted rabies from a squirrel bite, the dog just broke in and left, separate sentence baby’

I agree they should have done more to seperate them than just a full stop and that's what allowed this to extraoplate

i imagine Jim is pissed that they even put those three games in the same sentence.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm not wasting my time.

Waste of effort even trying with your sorry ass.

You're in the wrong place then buddy if you can't be bothered to read

 

[Withnail]

Must have been too late to offer a paid upgrade but they've got themselves into a weird situation with making this one free, where this is effectively a £10 discount for PS5 owners. Thanks!

If they want to charge 60 for PS4 games and 70 for PS5 games that's their prerogative, the market will decide if it's too much. But they should have been more consistent about cross gen and upgrades from the start.

 

[dxdt]

I think i've said twice now that this was just a PR move to calm an angry mob. We knew it wasn't coming until the 2nd half of 2021 all the way back since last year, so i figured that was enough information to know Horizon doesn't fall under the "free upgrade for launch games", since it wasn't, you know, a launch game.

So Sony knowingly promised something that they knew was not going to be possible for the launch games window? If you knew, then I would think that the development team would also knew.

 

[FranXico]

I think i've said twice now that this was just a PR move to calm an angry mob. We knew it wasn't coming until the 2nd half of 2021 all the way back since last year, so i figured that was enough information to know Horizon doesn't fall under the "free upgrade for launch games", since it wasn't, you know, a launch game.

Yes, that's what was formally promised at the PS Blog, but Jimbo went and explicitly mentioned free upgrade for HFW in a Washington Post interview.

 

[tmlDan]

Yeah, if I was a console warrior and didn’t have option to play great racing games on my console, I’d also try to pretend Forza Horizon 5 doesn’t exist

what?

I will play Forza, you seem defensive. Why is it when people state facts the real console fangirl gets so mad.

See you online in Halo and Forza in Q4

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So Sony knowingly promised something that they knew was not going to be possible for the launch games window? If you knew, then I would think that the development team would also knew.

Not following?

They promised free upgrades for launch games. Sony didn't fuck up with not keeping a promise. They fucked up by putting Horizon in the same conversation as those launch games which allowed the context of the free upgrades to be extrapolated

 

[Kagey K]

what?

I will play Forza, you seem defensive. Why is it when people state facts the real console fangirl gets so mad.

See you online in Halo and Forza in Q4

I might have missed it, what facts did you state?

 

[Zannrebel]

Just means my Ps4 got another good couple years in it lol. Thanks Jimmy

Something something generations...

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yes, that's what was formally promised at the PS Blog, but Jimbo went and explicitly mentioned free upgrade for HFW in a Washington Post interview.

I know, but that's just the author paraphrasing. You can easily misquote or take things out of context with those

 

[sendit]

Highlights from this thread:

1. Sony wants you to pay for a separate PS4 or PS5 version at different price points (or buy the 80 deluxe edition).
   1. People complain
2. Sony owns up to their mistake and offers a free upgrade to the PS5 version.
   1. People complain

 

[Kagey K]

Something something generations...

We believe in them, and really like the ones where we made money with them

 

[Armorian]

They need to be bullied to make the right decisions.

Arrogant Sony is indeed in full force but at least they are listening (sometimes)...

 

[Kagey K]

Highlights from this thread:

1. Sony wants you to pay for a separate PS4 or PS5 version at different price points (or buy the 80 deluxe edition).
   1. People complain
2. Sony owns up to their mistake and offers a free upgrade to the PS5 version.
   1. People complain

I don't see a lot of complaining, mostly gloating and other people digging in that they were right, when they were wrong.

But that's likely your bias showing if you see otherwise

If you read this thread and think it's negative towards Sony, you have a strong PS bias that will likely never be broken.

Most people are congratulating them on doing the right thing.

Only a small few see this as a bad thing.

 

[Gameplaylover]

"and any other exclusive cross-gen PS4 & PS5 title published by Sony Interactive Entertainment"

I wonder how long and for how many games Sony is going for crossgen titles.

@Defence Force.
As you can see sometimes shitstorms help, you don't have to defend everything. Helped Halo to become a better game and helped PS4 owners so save some bucks.