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[Peagles]

My understanding is the Neoya dongle is just a transcoder, not an upscaler. So just a question of whether it's better to deliver the signal to the TV through an HDMI input, or component. Probably doesn't make a difference, but like I said my Wii's never even been connected to an HDTV so thought it was worth asking. Not going to spend the $30 on the Neoya Wii2HDMI if there's literally no difference. Also still curious about my question re: using Wii w/ the XRGB mini vs. directly inputting to the TV.

In that case, it probably doesn't matter. It might be more designed for if you are lacking component inputs on your TV.

There are a few opinions on upscaler vs direct input for Wii in this thread, might be worth a search, but from what I remember some people say it's better to go direct and others say they've found particular settings that make it look better, so YMMV.

 

[Khaz]

Before I do I figure I should ask you folks if you've had any grief with these guys' cables? I know I've heard some lukewarm responses relative to retro_console_accessories, but really she's the standard for perfection.

Their cables are as cheap as any other. They are not shielded and can catch outside interferences, and there is definitely some audio buzz / crosstalk between the wires. When I complained, I was told to change my power supply.

 

[Madao]

So you're running the Wii through the FM? Did that turn out better for you than directly to the TV?

I'd love to have the component cable for GC but $$ so prolly just gonna be happy with the Wii and Nintendont. I hadn't touched my Wii since forever and just learned tonight that Nintendont isn't just for the WiiU. Doh. Pretty excited about adding my GC collection to the Wii without depending on the disk drive. Sucks that my spice (orange) GC is gonna be a paperweight though. It's pretty.

considering that i'm so bad that i can't perceive the lag people so often talk about, the FM works well for me since it does a better job than a direct connection.

a TV that could do 1:1 pixel display would be a godsend.

 

[Madao]

gonna make another post since i want to dedicate this one to another comparison set that's pretty heavy.

one thing that i've wanted to compare against each other is standard image display vs Smart x2 in both 4:3 and 16:9 modes.

here's some pics to compare:

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

4:3 Smart x2

4:3 Standard


Cam pics:

16:9 Standard

16:9 Smart x2

4:3 Standard

16:9 Standard

4:3 Standard

these shots show something that maybe a lot of people miss. 16:9 mode degrades the picture quality overall. it looks better when you are in 4:3 mode.
you can also see how Smart x2 behaves in both modes and how much difference it makes. the difference is not as big with 3D graphics though.
in short, i think Smart x2 in 4:3 is the absolute best way to display Wii and GC games. the distortion compared to standard is quite small and you get 1:1 pixel mapping. the bad things are that you get huge ass black bars on the TV and you lose 16:9 support (smart x2s distortion in 16:9 mode is bigger).

 

[D.Lo]

Yes of course you get better image quality in 4:3, GameCube and Wii only do anamorphic widescreen. Aka a picture squashed horizontally so it can be stretched by the screen. The actual resolution remains identical at 640x480.

It's why Virtual Console games are 'stretched' when the Wii is set to widescreen, requiring the user to adjust the TV back to 4:3, otherwise the games would lose resolution. And idiots like Capcom and Konami (eg Mega Man 9 and Castlevania Rebirth respectively) failed to take into account in their Wiiware releases when the Wii is run in widescreen mode.

The only reason for widescreen is if it suits the game. It certainly does in some cases, but not in others. I choose on a case by case basis.

 

[NormalFish]

Yes of course you get better image quality in 4:3, GameCube and Wii only do anamorphic widescreen. Aka a picture squashed horizontally so it can be stretched by the screen. The actual resolution remains identical at 640x480.

It's why Virtual Console games are 'stretched' when the Wii is set to widescreen, requiring the user to adjust the TV back to 4:3, otherwise the games would lose resolution. And idiots like Capcom and Konami (eg Mega Man 9 and Castlevania Rebirth respectively) failed to take into account in their Wiiware releases when the Wii is run in widescreen mode.

The only reason for widescreen is if it suits the game. It certainly does in some cases, but not in others. I choose on a case by case basis.

afaik there are wii games that are true widescreen. xenoblade?

 

[D.Lo]

I believe some Wii games do render a slightly higher horizontal resolution than 720 (x448 vertical). But nowhere near the 850ish or so needed to be the same dpi in 16:9 as 640x480 (448) in 4:3.

Mario Galaxy is 640x448.

 

[Peltz]

To each their own Madao.

I'd rather minimize input lag and have the largest field of view possible. And even though, yes, the image quality is somewhat cleaner in 2x mode on the FM in 4:3, the FM still seems to introduce artifacts that aren't there otherwise resulting in a very mixed outcome. I will update this with pics as to what I'm talking about.

480p at 4:3 scaled by my HDTV to 1080p

4:3 480p scaled to 1080p by FM in X2 mode in standard setting

There's some really odd looking pixelization added to edges of the image. Sprites look especially bad.

 

[NormalFish]

To each their own Madao.

I'd rather minimize input lag and have the largest field of view possible. And even though, yes, the image quality is somewhat cleaner in 2x mode on the FM in 4:3, the FM still seems to introduce artifacts that aren't there otherwise resulting in a very mixed outcome. I will update this with pics as to what I'm talking about.





There's some really odd looking pixelization added to edges of the image. Sprites look especially bad.

This kibra looks like an issue with scaler settings but I can't say for sure.

 

[televator]

Just so we all know that development is still alive: capture footage of N64 HDMI mod.

 

[missile]

... And even though, yes, the image quality is somewhat cleaner in 2x mode on the FM in 4:3, the FM still seems to introduce artifacts that aren't there ...

Sounds like a well known trade-off in filter design, i.e. sharpness vs.
ringing. The picture will be more crisp overall, but on edges you will get
ringing. As you can see, the edges of the x2 are sharper as in the other
picture, but you get ringing as a result. Your TV may work the other way
around by softening the picture and as such has virtually no ringing. Could be
a design choice. The FM designers could have done so on purpose, because from
a distance you may likely won't see the ringing effect that much (the eye is
blind on luminance changes around sharp edges). You will see a more crisp
picture overall as if you had soften the image too much in the first place.
It's possible that the FM designers tried to take advantage of the low-pass
filtering characteristic of the eye. Or it's simply a bug/off if the effect is
way too pronounced even while looking from a distance. I don't know, am just
guessing.

One issue with all image filtering (within this regard) is that one has to
take the viewing distance into account when filtering. Usually the filters
are designed for a given viewing distance. So if you sit too far away you will
miss detail. Too close and you may see spurious effects which are supposed to
be filtered out at the designed viewing distance by your very eyes. A
prominent representative of such a behavior are an TV's scanlines. Too far
away and you will miss detail. Too close and you will see them, which may
annoy one or another.

 

[Timu]

Just so we all know that development is still alive: capture footage of N64 HDMI mod.

Holy crap!!!

 

[televator]

Holy crap!!!

Can you play the vid in 1080p 60fps? My computer is old and totally shits itself trying to play it at max quality. How's it look? I think there are scan lines enabled?

 

[Timu]

Can you play the vid in 1080p 60fps? My computer is old and totally shits itself trying to play it at max quality. How's it look? I think there are scan lines enabled?

Yep, plays it perfectly even, and yes there are scanlines and the image quality is better than what the original N64 could ever put out.

 

[televator]

Awesome! I love that scan lines are an option. I wish it could over clock like the Hi Def NES but that's kinda beyond scope. Getting digital audio and video from the N64 will be sweet.

 

[Timu]

Awesome! I love that scan lines are an option. I wish it could over clock like the Hi Def NES but that's kinda beyond scope. Getting digital audio and video from the N64 will be sweet.

Here's a pic from the link:

 

[televator]

Looking reeeal nice. Yeah.

 

[Madao]

To each their own Madao.

I'd rather minimize input lag and have the largest field of view possible. And even though, yes, the image quality is somewhat cleaner in 2x mode on the FM in 4:3, the FM still seems to introduce artifacts that aren't there otherwise resulting in a very mixed outcome. I will update this with pics as to what I'm talking about.





There's some really odd looking pixelization added to edges of the image. Sprites look especially bad.

well, looks like your TV does a better job overall.

my TV isn't very good at handling non-HD material and the fact the FM looks better should indicate what kind of TV i have.

Here's a pic from the link:

holy shit. i'll need this. thanks to Nintendo for never re-releasing the FZX Expansion Kit i'll still need to keep the N64 alive and plugged (it's very possible i'll be boxing my Gamecube before my N64 due to no use at this point)

i hope that HDMI thingy has options to turn off scanlines and has low input lag. that could be a deal breaker for me.

if it turns out to be really good, i'll probably sell my FM to fund it since the only 240p console i use often is the N64 and there's better machines to handle 480p.

 

[Peltz]

well, looks like your TV does a better job overall.

my TV isn't very good at handling non-HD material and the fact the FM looks better should indicate what kind of TV i have.




holy shit. i'll need this. thanks to Nintendo for never re-releasing the FZX Expansion Kit i'll still need to keep the N64 alive and plugged (it's very possible i'll be boxing my Gamecube before my N64 due to no use at this point)

i hope that HDMI thingy has options to turn off scanlines and has low input lag. that could be a deal breaker for me.

if it turns out to be really good, i'll probably sell my FM to fund it since the only 240p console i use often is the N64 and there's better machines to handle 480p.

If you're looking for a better hdtv to upscale from 480p, I really like my Sony KDL. Just some food for thought. I just got it a few weeks ago and am loving it now that I have I have it configured properly.

 

[Madao]

If you're looking for a better hdtv to upscale from 480p, I really like my Sony KDL. Just some food for thought. I just got it a few weeks ago and am loving it now that I have I have it configured properly.

the models listed in Displaylag.com aren't available in my country and it's not feasible to import a TV.

looks like i'm at the mercy of signal processors.

 

[Bodacious]

Just so we all know that development is still alive: capture footage of N64 HDMI mod.

Wonder if that works on the Funtastic models (mine's purple) or only the earlier ones with the VDC-NUS?

 

[televator]

Wonder if that works on the Funtastic models (mine's purple) or only the earlier ones with the VDC-NUS?

It's a discrete board with (I think) an FPGA. Basically it bypasses all the analog bits. So it will work on every N64 since they all do have the raw RGB digital image in memory and that's where this thing does its magic.

This is as close to the source as it gets and IMO it doesn't get any better for picture quality. Even RGB scart, as good as it is, is an analog conversion. Also the audio quality should get a great boost as it eliminates noise and won't be filtered through less than ideal analog Components.

 

[Lambtron]

So I finally got my SNES & Saturn SCART cables and my SCART -> BNC cables to hook into my switch box plus some external speakers. Everything looks pretty awesome except for this weird flicker I have on the monitor. It's very obvious on light colored screens. Degaussing doesn't seem to fix it. Any ideas on what's wrong?

Here's a super shitty Vine of my issue, but you might be able to get the idea? https://vine.co/v/eutBp6gpehH

Oh and for what it's worth, this is happening with both the SNES & Saturn, and it's happening through S-video as well as RGB. Just don't know where to start to fix the issue.

 

[baphomet]

So I finally got my SNES & Saturn SCART cables and my SCART -> BNC cables to hook into my switch box plus some external speakers. Everything looks pretty awesome except for this weird flicker I have on the monitor. It's very obvious on light colored screens. Degaussing doesn't seem to fix it. Any ideas on what's wrong?

Here's a super shitty Vine of my issue, but you might be able to get the idea? https://vine.co/v/eutBp6gpehH

Oh and for what it's worth, this is happening with both the SNES & Saturn, and it's happening through S-video as well as RGB. Just don't know where to start to fix the issue.

Maybe try it without the switch box and see what happens.

 

[Lambtron]

I don't have a way to hook up the SCART connectors without the box. I tried s-video directly into the monitor and got the same weird flicker.

 

[Madao]

It's a discrete board with (I think) an FPGA. Basically it bypasses all the analog bits. So it will work on every N64 since they all do have the raw RGB digital image in memory and that's where this thing does its magic.

This is as close to the source as it gets and IMO it doesn't get any better for picture quality. Even RGB scart, as good as it is, is an analog conversion. Also the audio quality should get a great boost as it eliminates the noise won't be filtered through less than ideal analog Components.

that's even better news.

i heard somewhere that later N64 models had better quality components (not completely sure) but either way, it lets us search for the "best" available model for this mod and doesn't lock us in older models.

 

[Peltz]

the models listed in Displaylag.com aren't available in my country and it's not feasible to import a TV.

looks like i'm at the mercy of signal processors.

Ah... darn. Where are you located if you don't mind my asking? At this rate, it feels like I'll never meet any of Retro-GAF.

Also, that N64 mod looks sick, but isn't it still going to be 240p? How are HDTVs going to recognize that via HDMI? Aren't you still at the mercy of an external upscaler? Don't get me wrong, N64 is probably the roughest upscale even via a decent RGB mod... so any additional clarity will help. But, I can't imagine that this will look good going straight to the HDTV.

In other words, hang onto your Framemeister, Madao.

 

[Madao]

Ah... darn. Where are you located if you don't mind my asking? At this rate, it feels like I'll never meet any of Retro-GAF.

Also, that N64 mod looks sick, but isn't it still going to be 240p? How are HDTVs going to recognize that via HDMI? Aren't you still at the mercy of an external upscaler? Don't get me wrong, N64 is probably the roughest upscale even via a decent RGB mod... so any additional clarity will help. But, I can't imagine that this will look good going straight to the HDTV.

In other words, hang onto your Framemeister, Madao.

i'm located in Panama. it's a no man's land when it comes to retro gaming (the kind of treatment people around here give to retro stuff would make you guys cry)
the thing i'm glad is that i can import most small things quite easily. it's only the big stuff that becomes a pain.

 

[Bodacious]

It's a discrete board with (I think) an FPGA. Basically it bypasses all the analog bits. So it will work on every N64 since they all do have the raw RGB digital image in memory and that's where this thing does its magic.

This is as close to the source as it gets and IMO it doesn't get any better for picture quality. Even RGB scart, as good as it is, is an analog conversion. Also the audio quality should get a great boost as it eliminates noise and won't be filtered through less than ideal analog Components.

That's great, and the same thing's happening for FC/NES apparently. Game-Tech stopped taking orders to prepare for an FC/NES to HDMI mod. Watch. I might pick up another AVFamicom when I'm in Japan this summer just to be able to sacrifice one to the modgod, keep the other a virgin.

Edit: now we just need a similar mod for SFC/SNES so we can get sweet video from any model (not just the Jr/mini) with no vertical band in the middle of the screen. Not that it was ever that big of a deal, but people sure make a fuss about it.

 

[meanspartan]

Guys will something like this help?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Composi...246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae4762676

I have a bunch of old consoles, SNES, Genny, Ps2, N64, Dreamcast,. I currently play them the worst way possible, through composite on an HDTV (I have component for Ps2 actually, but it still looks kinda shitty).

I have looked into something like the XRGB Mini, and it does amazing things with older consoles (not sure if it is useful for Ps2 or Dreamcast though), but the price of that thing is just ridiculous.

Would a converter this cheap help image quality at all? Or is it literally just feeding shitty signal into an HDMI port instead of a composite port? If it does some upscaling, it may be worth it. If you have affordable alternatives to suggest, go for it. And unfortunately I am looking for something as close as possible to "one size fits all", I know that's far from ideal but it is what I can afford. All my legacy consoles have composite which is why I am looking for something that improves composite signal, though Ps2 like I said I have a component cable as well and Dreamcast I have a VGA (which would be awesome except my HDTV doesn't want to accept the 480p signal).

 

[Huggers]

Guys will something like this help?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Composi...246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae4762676

I have a bunch of old consoles, SNES, Genny, Ps2, N64, Dreamcast,. I currently play them the worst way possible, through composite on an HDTV (I have component for Ps2 actually, but it still looks kinda shitty).

I have looked into something like the XRGB Mini, and it does amazing things with older consoles (not sure if it is useful for Ps2 or Dreamcast though), but the price of that thing is just ridiculous.

Would a converter this cheap help image quality at all? Or is it literally just feeding shitty signal into an HDMI port instead of a composite port? If it does some upscaling, it may be worth it.

Tbh man, cheap scalers are a massive no no. Grab a CRT

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Or is it literally just feeding shitty signal into an HDMI port instead of a composite port?

It's this.

 

[meanspartan]

Tbh man, cheap scalers are a massive no no. Grab a CRT

It's this.

Gotcha. Bummer.

A CRT isn't happening, just no place to put it really and my GF would be mad if I jammed it in somewhere just for the couple times a month I feel like getting my retro game on.

I guess I'll just have to wait til my fortunes improve so I can buy an XRGB Mini. $350 though last I checked ugh.

Couple of follow up questions on that note:

1. Is anyone working on a cheaper alternative to the Mini that still does the upscaling it does? Just seems crazy to me that there is no stateside or European made alternative.
2. Will it make Ps2/N64/Dreamcast look any better? Or is it mainly for the 16bits and below?

Another option I thought about was the Retron 5. But its $160 price tag and inconsistent quality of emulation (from what I've heard) has made me not buy one so far. And it obviously wouldn't help me with the Ps2, DC, and N64

 

[Bodacious]

....

I have looked into something like the XRGB Mini, and it does amazing things with older consoles (not sure if it is useful for Ps2 or Dreamcast though), but the price of that thing is just ridiculous.

....

Not as ridiculous as it used to be. The japan price of 38,800 yen meant almost $500 a few years ago. Now it's just over $300.

Actually, in Japan the 'street price' is more like 31,000 yen, which would only be about $257. But that's on Japan's Amazon. I don't know if any brick-and-mortar retailers in Japan sell it. If Bic Camera sells it I sure can't find it on their site. I'll be in Japan for two weeks this June, including an afternoon in DenDenTown (Osaka) ... gonna keep my eyes open, but I don't expect to see it for sale anywhere.

(any Japan-GAF members who know where to go to buy it off the shelf, help a brother out)

.

 

[Peltz]

Gotcha. Bummer.

A CRT isn't happening, just no place to put it really and my GF would be mad if I jammed it in somewhere just for the couple times a month I feel like getting my retro game on.

I guess I'll just have to wait til my fortunes improve so I can buy an XRGB Mini. $350 though last I checked ugh.

Couple of follow up questions on that note:

1. Is anyone working on a cheaper alternative to the Mini that still does the upscaling it does? Just seems crazy to me that there is no stateside or European made alternative.
2. Will it make Ps2/N64/Dreamcast look any better? Or is it mainly for the 16bits and below?

Another option I thought about was the Retron 5. But its $160 price tag and inconsistent quality of emulation (from what I've heard) has made me not buy one so far. And it obviously wouldn't help me with the Ps2, DC, and N64

1. Not that I know of
2. It makes all 240p content look better regardless of the system. Your mileage may vary for 480i and 480p content, but it's a safe bet that you'll feel like you've gotten your money's worth if you play any 240p games (e.g. everything up to and including N64 and PS1 games, and a few select games from the DC and PS2 as well). Some people like Madao also like it for 480p-based content, and I personally have mixed feelings about the way it handles 480i.

P.S. Don't forget that you should really use RGB with the Framemeister.... and RGB cables/mods can get pretty expensive.

 

[meanspartan]

1. Not that I know of
2. It makes all 240p content look better regardless of the system. Your mileage may vary for 480i and 480p content, but it's a safe bet that you'll feel like you've gotten your money's worth if you play any 240p games (e.g. everything up to and including N64 and PS1 games, and a few select games from the DC and PS2 as well). Some people like Madao also like it for 480p-based content.

P.S. Don't forget that you should really use RGB with the Framemeister.... and RGB cables/mods can get pretty expensive.

I actually saw the youtube video from the guy who does Back in my Play and he showed composite signal through the XRGB mini and the results looked spectacular for me. I would be stoked with even just that. Obviously if I am dropping $300+ on one it would make sense to also spend some more to feed it the best signal possible and not just shitty composite though, no doubt.

 

[meanspartan]

Not as ridiculous as it used to be. The japan price of 38,800 yen meant almost $500 a few years ago. Now it's just over $300.

Actually, in Japan the 'street price' is more like 31,000 yen, which would only be about $257. But that's on Japan's Amazon. I don't know if any brick-and-mortar retailers in Japan sell it. If Bic Camera sells it I sure can't find it on their site. I'll be in Japan for two weeks this June, including an afternoon in DenDenTown (Osaka) ... gonna keep my eyes open, but I don't expect to see it for sale anywhere.

(any Japan-GAF members who know where to go to buy it off the shelf, help a brother out)

.

I don't mean to suggest it isn't worth it or anything like that, it can do spectacular things. But spending about as much for an upscaler as I would on a current gen console is mind boggling to me. Perhaps down the line when I have better employment it will make a lot more sense.

Why isn't there an American-made equivalent? I don't know of any anyway. Perhaps just too niche a market I guess.

 

[Peltz]

Consider it an investment to future-proof your retro collection for HDMI.

 

[IrishNinja]

Why isn't there an American-made equivalent? I don't know of any anyway. Perhaps just too niche a market I guess.

yeah, you pretty much just answered it here - used CRT's are still readily available for cheap in most areas, and honestly i figure most people just emulate or hook composite to their LCD/Dynex and call it a day

 

[Bodacious]

I don't mean to suggest it isn't worth it or anything like that, it can do spectacular things. But spending about as much for an upscaler as I would on a current gen console is mind boggling to me. Perhaps down the line when I have better employment it will make a lot more sense.

Why isn't there an American-made equivalent? I don't know of any anyway. Perhaps just too niche a market I guess.

I haven't bought the XRGBmini yet, but I'm giving it serious thought not so much because I'm excited about spending that much money on it, but because of how much money I already have invested in my retro stuff. Not just the consoles, but the retail games I own, the controllers, the Everdrive carts ... when I consider all that, the price is acceptable.

 

[Timu]

XRGB Mini should had been 250 bucks IMO.

 

[IrishNinja]

prolly will be down the road, especially whenever the next model's announced

 

[NormalFish]

prolly will be down the road, especially whenever the next model's announced

I've been wondering about when this will be. Honestly I think the FM is pretty damn good for the moment. I doubt a new model would sell all that well unless it really offers some major upgrades.

Spoiler

no downtime when there's a resolution change pls

 

[Peltz]

prolly will be down the road, especially whenever the next model's announced

IrishNinja, your post gave me a great idea for a new thread.

Upscale-GAF: What do you want out of a successor to the Framemeister/XRGB-Mini?

 

[theSlacker]

prolly will be down the road, especially whenever the next model's announced

That is my feeling on it. It's not really a money issue, it's more that I don't like what the current one does with games that switch between different resolutions.

 

[Bodacious]

prolly will be down the road, especially whenever the next model's announced

I can tell you one thing that would make it sell better, and that would be if they offered direct-to-FM cable connectors for the most popular consoles. In other words, instead of giving you a little SCART to 8pin mini-DIN dongle and leaving you on your own to find cables, Micomsoft should be making Nintendo RGB (AVFami, FC/SNES, & N64) to FM cables. Megadrive RGB to FM cables. Saturn RGB to FM cables. And along with those cables, they should have an XRGB mini selector box available, into which you could plug all those connections and then select the one you want to play currently with a remote or button push. All of this is possible now through other sources, but you have to either have original RGB cables (rare, except perhaps in Europe), or else buy from small online vendors. If Micomsoft were really trying to make the advantages of their product easily accessible to customers, then they should be selling the customer as complete a package as the customer needs.

Just a thought.

.

 

[BocoDragon]

That is my feeling on it. It's not really a money issue, it's more that I don't like what the current one does with games that switch between different resolutions.

There are so few of those, though. I totally get the feeling like "this should play everything!" But when you're talking about 2 or 3 games out of 1000s, it's such a minor point.

I can play SotN or Chrono Cross on my PS3 if I need, so it's almost a non-issue for me.

 

[NormalFish]

Dunno if it's been shared here, but THIS SITE has some great suggestions for 480p content on the FM.

 

[IrishNinja]

IrishNinja, your post gave me a great idea for a new thread.

Upscale-GAF: What do you want out of a successor to the Framemeister/XRGB-Mini?

nice thread, posted!

I can tell you one thing that would make it sell better, and that would be if they offered direct-to-FM cable connectors for the most popular consoles.

it's not a bad idea - the d-terminal to component one i got on solaris is great as well - but honestly, i don't know that they'd make a better product/pricepoint than i got from retro_console_accessories

 

[Bodacious]

it's not a bad idea - the d-terminal to component one i got on solaris is great as well - but honestly, i don't know that they'd make a better product/pricepoint than i got from retro_console_accessories

just a hunch, but I don't think those d-terminal to component dongles on solaris are a micomsoft product. You can find those on Amazon (Japan) for about 670 yen. (6 bucks)