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[theSlacker]

So it turns out the cheap Upscaler that people are bringing up... the Adam Koralik special...

May actually not even be upscaling RGB. It's probably upscaling composhit.

If that is the case, we should never speak of this box here again in the sense that its irrelevant to RGB and scaling done right.

We do got to find some other slightly cheap option to recommend people then. Even if I would never use it, not everyone is ready to go balls deep into old CRTs or an RGBmini. That was the place of that upscaller before.

Still have no idea how the Koralik video with it is so highly rated...

Also isn't that the same one that the gamesack guys showed in their video about rgb and retro stuff? They didn't go out of their way to claim it was as good or better then other options though.

Edit: Actually no, just checked, the one the gamesack guys showed off had component out, not hdmi. My bad.

 

[NormalFish]

We do got to find some other slightly cheap option to recommend people then. Even if I would never use it, not everyone is ready to go balls deep into old CRTs or an RGBmini. That was the place of that upscaller before.

Still have no idea how the Koralik video with it is so highly rated...

Also isn't that the same one that the gamesack guys showed in their video about rgb and retro stuff? They didn't go out of their way to claim it was as good or better then other options though.

I'm not sure there is a cheap option for scart -> modern flat screen that's remotely good. best option is probably just plugging it into your tv as best you can if that box doesn't work...

 

[Khaz]

I'm not sure there is a cheap option for scart -> modern flat screen that's remotely good. best option is probably just plugging it into your tv as best you can if that box doesn't work...

Remotely good I don't know, but there are plenty of Scart to HDMI converters out there, most claiming to use RGB. Like this one from Maplin, it seems to do the job. Now will it be good enough with lag, deentrelacing, etc. I have no idea.

 

[televator]

I'm not sure there is a cheap option for scart -> modern flat screen that's remotely good. best option is probably just plugging it into your tv as best you can if that box doesn't work...

The best thing AFAIK for cheap options to an HDTV is to hope your TV supports 240p component. Then you can just use the RGB scart to YUV transcoder used for consumer US CRTs.

 

[EmiPrime]

So it turns out the cheap Upscaler that people are bringing up... the Adam Koralik special...

May actually not even be upscaling RGB. It's probably upscaling composhit.

If that is the case, we should never speak of this box here again in the sense that its irrelevant to RGB and scaling done right.

https://youtu.be/RS55pmLIEjA?t=14m58s

Nothing against him but he really shouldn't be advising anyone on this topic.

 

[antibolo]

The best thing AFAIK for cheap options to an HDTV is to hope your TV supports 240p component. Then you can just use the RGB scart to YUV transcoder used for consumer US CRTs.

Lag may still be a problem though. Of course those cheap upscaler boxes might be even laggier, but still.

 

[Peltz]

Then it sounds like I'll need 5 splitters for each cable.

I think you mean 5 splitters... one for each cable.

 

[Peagles]

I've gotten to the stage where there's a handful of systems I can't fit on my SCART switch, and I just found this nifty extender cable so I can leave that hanging loose and put whatever system into that without pulling the switch out.

It's so thick and super shielded! I'm kinda thinking I should have got some more so I can start making my own system cables with it. Only cost me a fiver too!

 

[Peltz]

https://youtu.be/RS55pmLIEjA?t=14m58s

Nothing against him but he really shouldn't be advising anyone on this topic.

Bwahahaha.

 

[theSlacker]

I've gotten to the stage where there's a handful of systems I can't fit on my SCART switch, and I just found this nifty extender cable so I can leave that hanging loose and put whatever system into that without pulling the switch out.

It's so thick and super shielded! I'm kinda thinking I should have got some more so I can start making my own system cables with it. Only cost me a fiver too!

Nice pickup. It's hard to get just basic scart stuff over in the states.

I'm at the point where I'm about to outgrow the Bandridge switch that I currently have. One of those custom ones would probably work perfectly for me but unless the guy starts making a ton more of them I don't see that happening.

 

[Timu]

Also isn't that the same one that the gamesack guys showed in their video about rgb and retro stuff?

Yes, sadly, it was in the 32x video.

I used to own that, it sucked so bad I returned it, lol.

 

[Peagles]

Nice pickup. It's hard to get just basic scart stuff over in the states.

I'm at the point where I'm about to outgrow the Bandridge switch that I currently have. One of those custom ones would probably work perfectly for me but unless the guy starts making a ton more of them I don't see that happening.

Yeh, even though SCART wasn't really used over here, specialist electronics stores still carry lots of SCART stuff. I'm really hoping I can source some cabling that thick for making my own cables (or just getting a bunch of these and dismantling and rewiring one end), it's honestly as thick as one of my fingers lol. I opened it up to peek inside too and it's really nicely wired.

I actually have enough switches (I managed to get 3 of the Joytech ones eventually) but I've only got room to have one setup right now. Hopefully one day I can set them all up together and give myself somewhere between 10 and 12 inputs.

 

[Bogeypop]

I think you mean 5 splitters... one for each cable.

Yeah that's what I meant, but I guess I can see where someone would interpret it as 5x5 instead of 1x5. Thanks to you and Khaz for the help btw.

 

[NormalFish]

Remotely good I don't know, but there are plenty of Scart to HDMI converters out there, most claiming to use RGB. Like this one from Maplin, it seems to do the job. Now will it be good enough with lag, deentrelacing, etc. I have no idea.

judging by those reviews, "[does] the job" may be pushing it lol...

Regardless, you're probably right that there is -- somewhere -- a scart to HDMI converter worth its salt. I just don't want to be the guy to find which one it is.

 

[theSlacker]

I actually have enough switches (I managed to get 3 of the Joytech ones eventually) but I've only got room to have one setup right now. Hopefully one day I can set them all up together and give myself somewhere between 10 and 12 inputs.

I just hope I never need that many since it would mean I've gone way further then I wanted to with my retro systems. Will be at like 6 RGB systems total for my retro set up and then one VGA for Dreamcast. Can't even think about how I would get into more unless I started looking at systems that I never used and have no experience with, like the Turbografx 16.

 

[Peagles]

I just hope I never need that many since it would mean I've gone way further then I wanted to with my retro systems. Will be at like 6 RGB systems total for my retro set up and then one VGA for Dreamcast. Can't even think about how I would get into more unless I started looking at systems that I never used and have no experience with, like the Turbografx 16.

Yeh same, I guess right now I have more set up than usual via RGB because I'm only using my PVM which doesn't do 480p, so I have NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Mega Drive, Saturn, Xbox, PS1 (and Dreamcast but I just put that in the wardrobe because I don't have any games here the I could never get the RGB cable to work on my PVM). Really the Gamecube and Xbox shouldn't be using RGB but it's the best I can do right now with my current PVM. Although SNES, N64 and Gamecube all share the same cable, which means less inputs are needed, but I'd really like dedicated cables for each of them someday.

 

[moltonasty]

Over $100 seems like a lot for a 14". All of my 20" monitors I paid under $200 for.

Damn really? I just keep seeing the super high ebay prices. And everytime I search for a PVM 20L5 on craigslist...well it just doesn't exist on there. At least in NYC. Would people generally agree that $140 is too much for a PVM 14L5?

 

[Mercutio]

Damn really? I just keep seeing the super high ebay prices. And everytime I search for a PVM 20L5 on craigslist...well it just doesn't exist on there. At least in NYC. Would people generally agree that $140 is too much for a PVM 14L5?

They're out there in NYC, but they're generally being thrown away. Most studios have either converted or are converting from PVM monitors, and they're generally just tossed. My company got rid of tons of them about two years ago.

 

[moltonasty]

They're out there in NYC, but they're generally being thrown away. Most studios have either converted or are converting from PVM monitors, and they're generally just tossed. My company got rid of tons of them about two years ago.

Fucking hell....I'd be so incredibly hyped if I was just walking down the street one day and found a PVM lying there ripe for the picking. People would be thinking "what a fool, who uses CRT TV's anymore?" and I'd just be all like "i just hit the jackpot,"

Please god.

 

[sixteen-bit]

May actually not even be upscaling RGB. It's probably upscaling composhit.

why are the colors so off on his RGB monitor? Is it accidentally set to component video or something?

 

[SegaShack]

Got an RGB N64 on its way in the mail. Can't wait to have it join the RGB club with the rest of my systems.

To anyone talking about scalers, PVMs for life!

 

[theSlacker]

Damn really? I just keep seeing the super high ebay prices. And everytime I search for a PVM 20L5 on craigslist...well it just doesn't exist on there. At least in NYC. Would people generally agree that $140 is too much for a PVM 14L5?

I can't really speak for the pricings of different areas, just what I've been able to get. I know that I would feel better with $50-$100 for one of the "newer" 14" models. With $100 being on the high side. People have seem to caught on that these are being used for retro gaming though so think they can get more, along with people being willing to spend more so prices may be going up. The problem with the prices originally was that people selling still thought they were worth a ton since they assumed they were still being used for professional broadcast purposes or what not. The two 20" BVMs I got as recent as a year or so ago I had to let the seller sit on for a few months before he would sell them to me for like $170 each when he wanted something like $400 each. Now that more and more people are becoming hip to how good they are I'm not sure they would have sat for so long. I still wouldn't pay over $100 for a 14" though, and it would have to be in super good condition for that.

Also try expanding your search. Just do searches for "sony pvm" and "sony bvm" since there are some other good models out there. The PVM 20M4U and 20M2U are slightly older the the one you are looking for for instance, but can still be good. Since there is no way to check operational hours on the PVMs you have to be more careful and make sure to test them though.

Yeh same, I guess right now I have more set up than usual via RGB because I'm only using my PVM which doesn't do 480p, so I have NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Mega Drive, Saturn, Xbox, PS1 (and Dreamcast but I just put that in the wardrobe because I don't have any games here the I could never get the RGB cable to work on my PVM). Really the Gamecube and Xbox shouldn't be using RGB but it's the best I can do right now with my current PVM. Although SNES, N64 and Gamecube all share the same cable, which means less inputs are needed, but I'd really like dedicated cables for each of them someday.

I would need to get a euro Gamecube to use RGB I think. That isn't even one of the systems that I have hooked up now though and have no idea how I would go about getting the best quality out of it anyway since I don't have the component cables for it. Just Genesis/Sega CD, Saturn, SNES, PS1, and soonish N64 and NES for me. With Dreamcast as a separate thing since it's VGA.

 

[televator]

why are the colors so off on his RGB monitor? Is it accidentally set to component video or something?

It's on its last legs. He says so in the vid.

 

[NormalFish]

so what are the options for playing gameboy games (preferably GBC-compatible) on real hardware of some kind with video out for streaming? super gameboy, gameboy player, what else?

 

[sixteen-bit]

so what are the options for playing gameboy games (preferably GBC-compatible) on real hardware of some kind with video out for streaming? super gameboy, gameboy player, what else?

uh, super game boy 2?

that pretty much covers it for real hardware

 

[Mercutio]

Fucking hell....I'd be so incredibly hyped if I was just walking down the street one day and found a PVM lying there ripe for the picking. People would be thinking "what a fool, who uses CRT TV's anymore?" and I'd just be all like "i just hit the jackpot,"

Please god.

I'd say call up broadcast or editing or advertising vendor companies. You might find someone that has some they want to get rid of, but haven't yet. I don't think you can just throw them away; specialists have to remove them in the city.

 

[Peagles]

uh, super game boy 2?

that pretty much covers it for real hardware

Maybe a GBA with TV Out mod too?

 

[NormalFish]

uh, super game boy 2?

that pretty much covers it for real hardware

Yeah, this is what I feared. There's that N64 thing, but it's expensive and rare.

Maybe a GBA with TV Out mod too?

This is a thing? Have a link?

 

[Mercutio]

Maybe a GBA with TV Out mod too?

I'm curious what the GBA's GPU or PPU or whatever puts out. Is it generating an actual RGB?

 

[Peagles]

Yeah, this is what I feared. There's that N64 thing, but it's expensive and rare.

This is a thing? Have a link?

Baphomet has done one, you just rewire one of those TV out adapters for RGB. Looks pretty decent from what he showed.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Oh, I see. In that case, split the AV signal at the source with a few high quality splitters or Y cables and call it a day. Use a few of these with the highest possible quality:

One part of the split goes to the CRT, the other part goes to the capture device.

I don't think you should do this. Non-powered splitters have a tendency to degrade and darken the picture.

A powered amplifier, like this, would probably do the job better:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B2MQD92/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Doesn't have to be this particular model, but I think you should be looking for something that plugs into a wall outlet.

Remotely good I don't know, but there are plenty of Scart to HDMI converters out there, most claiming to use RGB. Like this one from Maplin, it seems to do the job. Now will it be good enough with lag, deentrelacing, etc. I have no idea.

I would avoid all cheap converters unless you can somehow determine that they handle 240p signals correctly.

 

[Madao]

5 splitter cables to get component signal to both my TV and Capture card was the ghetto way i used to capture and play back before i had a receiver and dedicated splitters.

the bad thing is that the signal quality is degraded a bit but it was a good cheap alternative.

 

[baphomet]

Also looks like the adapter above does convert RGB to HDMI. It is just user error on Game-Tech's part.


A fairly decent upscaler would be one of those cheap CGA 2 VGA scalers made for arcade games being converted from a CRT to a flat screen. That coupled with a Sync Strike and a scan line generator will give you a pretty good quality 480p image. Run the VGA into your TV and let it handle the upscaling, and you should end up with a significantly better picture than that RGB to HDMI ever thought about outputting.

These are native 480p shots captured directly from the above.

I think I put all of this together for right under $100. Maybe slightly less, I don't recall exactly. Of course Arcade Forge also sells a DIY kit, as well as a slick looking prebuilt model. It's cheaper, of course, to put the stuff together yourself.

 

[Huggers]

A fairly decent upscaler would be one of those cheap CGA 2 VGA scalers made for arcade games being converted from a CRT to a flat screen. That coupled with a Sync Strike and a scan line generator will give you a good quality 480p image. Run the VGA into your TV and let it handle the upscaling, and you should end up with a significantly better picture than that RGB to HDMI ever thought about outputting.

These are native 480p shots captured directly from the above.

I think I put all of this together for right under $100. Maybe slightly less, I don't recall exactly. Of course Arcade Forge also sells a DIY kit, as well as a slick looking prebuilt model. It's cheaper, of course, to put the stuff together yourself.

Hello mate. Got a message from the courier. A certain parcel from the States should arrive today.... Hyped. Also have an rgb modded AV Famicom on the way. Best day ever

 

[baphomet]

Hello mate. Got a message from the courier. A certain parcel from the States should arrive today.... Hyped. Also have an rgb modded AV Famicom on the way. Best day ever

Excellent!

Let me know when it shows up. I'm sure you'll definitely enjoy it!

 

[karobit]

uh, super game boy 2?

that pretty much covers it for real hardware

Sorry for the naive question but what makes a Super Game Boy 2 better than the Game Boy Player for GC for output video quality? Is the GB Player outputting a 480i (p if you have component?) signal compared to the SGB's 240p?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Sorry for the naive question but what makes a Super Game Boy 2 better than the Game Boy Player for GC for output video quality? Is the GB Player outputting a 480i (p if you have component?) signal compared to the SGB's 240p?

The GBP has really bad stutter and input lag. Its output is also 480 lines instead of 240, yes, but I didn't think that was as big of a deal.

And the SGB2 is superior to the SGB because its speed is more accurate and it has link cable support.

 

[Khaz]

Lag may still be a problem though. Of course those cheap upscaler boxes might be even laggier, but still.

If done correctly, RGB to Component should be pretty much instantaneous if there is no upscale or image treatment. It shouldn't add more delay than say, a CXA1145 present in many consoles to make Composite out of the initial RGB sent by the Video processor. The delay itself will come from your TV.

 

[Peltz]

Damn really? I just keep seeing the super high ebay prices. And everytime I search for a PVM 20L5 on craigslist...well it just doesn't exist on there. At least in NYC. Would people generally agree that $140 is too much for a PVM 14L5?

I've picked up 3 different high quality broadcast monitors over the past 8 months or so in NYC. Keep on looking.

PVM 20L5 is a special case though. I have been looking for that for a while without any luck. Looks like we are after the same pot of gold...

 

[moltonasty]

I've picked up 3 different high quality broadcast monitors over the past 8 months or so in NYC. Keep on looking.

PVM 20L5 is a special case though. I have been looking for that for a while without any luck. Looks like we are after the same pot of gold...

That's awesome,how did you come across the monitors you got if you don't mind me asking? Craigslist, genie lamp, or otherwise? I don't necessarily need a 20L5, any 20 inch Monitor with 480p capability would be fine.

 

[antibolo]

If done correctly, RGB to Component should be pretty much instantaneous if there is no upscale or image treatment. It shouldn't add more delay than say, a CXA1145 present in many consoles to make Composite out of the initial RGB sent by the Video processor. The delay itself will come from your TV.

Yes that's what I mean, I was talking about how the built-in upscaler in many TVs does a poor job lag-wise with 240p/480i signals. A cheap external scaler may or may not do a better job than your TV.

 

[Bogeypop]

I don't think you should do this. Non-powered splitters have a tendency to degrade and darken the picture.

A powered amplifier, like this, would probably do the job better:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B2MQD92/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Doesn't have to be this particular model, but I think you should be looking for something that plugs into a wall outlet.

5 splitter cables to get component signal to both my TV and Capture card was the ghetto way i used to capture and play back before i had a receiver and dedicated splitters.

the bad thing is that the signal quality is degraded a bit but it was a good cheap alternative.

I'm not too familiar with this stuff, but what is a "receiver and dedicated splitters"? Is it better than the distribution amplifier Sixfortyfive recommended?

 

[Khaz]

I would assume the signal is degraded only when both receivers are switched on. But it's just an assumption.

 

[baphomet]

That's awesome,how did you come across the monitors you got if you don't mind me asking? Craigslist, genie lamp, or otherwise? I don't necessarily need a 20L5, any 20 inch Monitor with 480p capability would be fine.

I would buy the 14L5 for $140. Don't come across monitors that to both 240p and 480p very often.

 

[moltonasty]

I would buy the 14L5 for $140. Don't come across monitors that to both 240p and 480p very often.

Hmm..i was able to get the offer down to $120, but I'm not sure. I feel like 14 inches will be a bit too small. But I guess i could rock with this one and continue to search for a 20 inch until I find it? Damn, why must the ebay prices be so insane.

 

[HaL64]

https://youtu.be/RS55pmLIEjA?t=14m58s

Nothing against him but he really shouldn't be advising anyone on this topic.

Indeed. I tried to tell people here this awhile back when he first started posting his videos.
He has youtube videos filled with wrong information.

 

[baphomet]

Hmm..i was able to get the offer down to $120, but I'm not sure. I feel like 14 inches will be a bit too small. But I guess i could rock with this one and continue to search for a 20 inch until I find it? Damn, why must the ebay prices be so insane.

I search for them weekly and I've only ever found 1 480p pvm. 14'' is fairly small, but you'll be able to play everything up until the HD consoles on there. My 480p capable monitor is a couple of older computer monitors, and they're gorgeous.

 

[moltonasty]

How does the bvm d24e1Wu fare for pre gen 6 gaming? I wouldn't mind the option of playing gamecube/xbox etc but im mainly in this for gen 5 and earlier.

And good to know regarding the 14...just really want that 20 lol. Gonna sleep on it and see how i feel about picking up the 14 in the meantime

 

[Peltz]

I search for them weekly and I've only ever found 1 480p pvm. 14'' is fairly small, but you'll be able to play everything up until the HD consoles on there. My 480p capable monitor is a couple of older computer monitors, and they're gorgeous.

Actually, it also supports 720p and 1080i.

moltonasty, you spotted it first, so I'll let you grab it. $120 for 14" and 480p native support is fair if the monitor is in impeccable condition. It's not a good deal, but it's not a rippoff either. I simply think you're paying what it's worth at that price.

BUT, I wouldn't pay that though if it's anything less than perfect geometry or if the contrast or brightness isn't that good. Definitely test it before you buy it. If you decide to pass on it, let me know so I can swoop in.

By the way, 14" monitor is good as a desktop monitor but not really good for a living room setup. Plus those scanlines are going to be super thick.

 

[moltonasty]

Thanks for the tips. It'll be in a medium size room..not quite a bedroom but not a living room either. 14 might be a good size for the room, but if I end up passing It's all yours! Just debating between that and something a bit larger right now. This 24 inch BVM seems perfect for gen 6 stuff but idk about n64 or earlier. Anyone have experience with that model?