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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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NormalFish
Banned
there will be another XRGB. Don't see why there wouldn't be. I'd guess it comes out in like 5 years. The XRGB FM is just so good that until they can eliminate the delay when swapping resolutions and offer some sort of other feature I don't see any reason to upgrade.
baphomet
Member
It'll be out this year I would guess. Next year at the latest.
Please dont toy with me like that. My heart and budget cant take it.
But seriously, you seem pretty sure. Care to elaborate?
NormalFish
Banned
really? wasn't the framemeister only released in like 2012? I was under the impression the XRGB3 was released in the mid 00s? Now that I google I can't find dates, though...
**Though 5 years is still too high. 3 is more in line with what I was thinking.
oh, and the framemeister released 6 years after the XRGB3. I expect a similar wait period.
baphomet
Member
Xrgb was announced in 2010, released in 2011. I just wouldn't be surprised to see it be announced this year. Micomsoft have released like 6-7 upscalers at this point, even something like a mini plus wouldn't surprise me.
NormalFish
Banned
This seems way more likely than a new iteration inside 2 years. I think if they do release a new upscaler in the near future they're going to have a hard time selling it. I just find it unlikely that it will be an upgrade worth investing in when the FM is so cheap right now.
Cheap?
NormalFish
Banned
285$ relative to the 500$ these things launch at? hell yeah.
baphomet
Member
The new iteration will likely be the same price as it is currently. The lower price is all due to devaluation of the yen.
True, but that's only at solaris, everywhere else is $350+(including shipping). I would like for the price to be 250 though.
NormalFish
Banned
The weak yen is true. That's a bigger player than I was accounting for.
So what's the price history for these? Is the ~38,000 yen price tag standard? In which case that puts us at around 325$. I wonder how Micomsoft will market it now, though. Seems very apparent that their market isn't isolated to Japan.
I dont know. Maybe they will release a mini plus unit but I dont see any reason for a full upgrade until 4k televisions really take hold. With that said, what exactky woujd everyone like to see in the next XRGB?
For me, id like to see options for saving settings, getting rid of the resolution change delay, though i dont know how feasible that is, 1080p scanline support, and moving the scart connector to the back. I hate the plug on the front and it really should have been moved to the back on the mini.
For me, id like to see options for saving settings, getting rid of the resolution change delay, though i dont know how feasible that is, 1080p scanline support, and moving the scart connector to the back. I hate the plug on the front and it really should have been moved to the back on the mini.
NormalFish
Banned
I think there was a thread for this. regardless...
1) no delay when switching resolutions
2) better component input and 480p scaling
3) display port and more inputs
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is basically the time frame that I'm expecting.
NormalFish
Banned
yup, seems reasonable for me, as well. Seems a bit hard to predict when that will be, though.
geniusbits
Member
Greetings all, I am very excited to make my first post on this thread that I have been following, reading pages 1-63 so far.
First of all, my current set up is for the most part playing Wii VC through the Framemeister D link on this TV: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-iNyGbypGwDf/p_15855WF655/Sony-KDF-55WF655.html
I have many other plans, including of course getting all of the RGB cables for older consoles, as well as collecting monitors (BVM, PVM, consumer Trinitron FV etc.) and also trying to make my own arcade cabinet with one of those. For starters though I have a simple question
Speakers - something I don't see mentioned much. I'm assuming everyone using a pro monitor is using some kind of external speaker set up. Is there some kind of speaker technology that would be the best for retro gaming? Any one have a favorite?
First of all, my current set up is for the most part playing Wii VC through the Framemeister D link on this TV: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-iNyGbypGwDf/p_15855WF655/Sony-KDF-55WF655.html
I have many other plans, including of course getting all of the RGB cables for older consoles, as well as collecting monitors (BVM, PVM, consumer Trinitron FV etc.) and also trying to make my own arcade cabinet with one of those. For starters though I have a simple question
Speakers - something I don't see mentioned much. I'm assuming everyone using a pro monitor is using some kind of external speaker set up. Is there some kind of speaker technology that would be the best for retro gaming? Any one have a favorite?
NormalFish
Banned
I've been looking for an audio solution with the FM since my desktop monitor speakers are garbage. Think I'll get a little mixer with digital audio input and just run all my tech through it. Not what you were looking for, I know, but I imagine this would work for folks with a PVM/BVM, too.
Who is selling at $285? Or are you just converting the Japanese street price to dollars?
.
NormalFish
Banned
yeah, converting the price.
Unrelated: now that I've mentioned it, and I don't know where else to look, any recommendations for an audio mixer with the option for TOSLink inputs? preferably like 5 inputs total.
**This doesn't exist. zzz
The only reason I haven't missed my PC engine duo, nes, or n64 for rgb is that i've only got one component input on my CRT heh. I kinda want to either way, since I'd probably just be switching out audio plugs and the scart in the component converter...
Currently on svideo for n64 and composite for nes and duo.
EDIT: Going over the OP again, and damn N64 via RGB is like a Genesis jump in quality.
Currently on svideo for n64 and composite for nes and duo.
EDIT: Going over the OP again, and damn N64 via RGB is like a Genesis jump in quality.
i have no use for 4k since i don't see myself upgrading my TV to that with all the input lag and shit that comes from upscaling images but it makes sense for them to wait until that for the next model.
i'd still like a revised version of the current one with the small quirks ironed out. surely those can't be that hard to fix, can they? not on the level of having to completely make a new machine i hope.
i'd still like a revised version of the current one with the small quirks ironed out. surely those can't be that hard to fix, can they? not on the level of having to completely make a new machine i hope.
If there's one thing 4k will be good for, it's upscaling low resolutions. It gives the upscaler more pixels to play with, to shape the phosphor spot more accurately: for example, uneven scanlines is a common complain for 1080p upscaling. I don't think there will be an increase in delay between upscaling to 1080p and upscaling to 4k either.
I agree that 4k is useless for the general population, 4k blurays are just a trick to make people buy new TVs and new editions of their favourite films, even though they most likely won't see the visual upgrade. But I do think that for our specific hobby, it can be useful for people not wanting or unable to get a real CRT.
D.Lo
Member
Looooong term absolutely. Visual emulation tricks will be able to use the extra resolution for sure.
But only once sets are commonplace. And maybe they never will be, it seems like a failure so far to me, like 3D. Just electronics companies trying a new gimmick on to hock new screens constantly.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Increasing resolution isn't a "gimmick." It's a fact of life. Just as processors always get faster and hard drives always get bigger, screens will always get more pixels. Even if broadcast/movie content is slow to adopt new formats, higher res is always relevant in the PC monitor space.
And it would be kind of foolish for Micomsoft or anyone else to release another 1080p scaler at this point in time.
And it would be kind of foolish for Micomsoft or anyone else to release another 1080p scaler at this point in time.
More scanline settings, selectable HDMI output range etc.
http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm
http://micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=7440
http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm
http://micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=7440
D.Lo
Member
We kept 640x480 as a standard for six decades. Resolution doesn't always get higher at such a rate. A current generation console cannot even consistently render at the current standard screen resolution. Stations don't even broadcast in 1080p yet!
Diminishing returns slowed and basically stopped the megapixel wars in digital cameras, it stops sometimes.
Progress ahead of its time is a gimmick when it is used as marketing before an actual consumer need.
Charles Brandon
Member
I can't fit a TV that is bigger than 42" in the alcove in my living room where I hang it. Is it possible to determine 4k at that size?
I think my fucking phone is something like "quadHD" whatever that is. LOL
I think my fucking phone is something like "quadHD" whatever that is. LOL
Is it available in English? Sorry I cannot check the link at work.
P.S. I do think 4k discussion is relevant to this topic. But since 4k sets upscale from 1080p so cleanly, I don't think it's all that important for a 240p scaler to offer a 4k option. It would be nice, but its absence is hardly a deal breaker.
I think we can all agree that no gamer should be buying a 4k set that doesn't do a very good job with upscaling 1080p gaming content in this day and age.
4k is a great thing for computer displays (I love my 5k iMac), but for TVs it is definitely a gimmick, because in most real life scenarios 1080p is already higher resolution than what one can perceive at a normal watching distance.
That won't be true as prices continue to plummet and people continue to buy larger and larger sets to replace their old ones. A mounted 80" hdtv takes up almost no room.
Unless there's some Time Lord science going on in there I am inclined to not be convinced.
It all depends on one's setup of course. In my case, my TV shelf's manual says I can only mount up to a 60 inch.
That might be based on the average weight of a 60 inch screen at the time of its production, though. The 80 inch TVs of today weigh just a fraction of what a 60 inch did. They're just covering their asses legally.
YOU HAVE CHOSEN WISELY.
Get the Mini. The XRGB3 is a trickier device and doesn't work as well out of the box unless you know a lot about analogue signals. That's my understanding, anyway. I think some systems don't work with it properly; Neo Geo etc. Get your Mini from Solaris Japan. Their service is very good, and if you have any issues they'll cover you under the warranty. Not that I've ever seen / heard of a mechanical fault anyone's mini. They seem fairly reliable.
I know what you mean, but it would still look silly because of how bigger it would be compared to the shelf itself.
Nobody would notice that the shelf is too small because it would be eclipsed by the glory of your new 80" television.
Asking again because on GAF all things are possible ....
Any JapanGAF member here, particularly if you're in Osaka and frequent Den Den Town, can tell me where the XRGB mini FM is sold at any 'brick and mortar' retailers, i.e. not online? I will be there on vacation in June, travelling all over from Tokyo to Kagoshima, but mostly in Kyoto. I will be in Osaka one day and will have a few hours for Den Den Town. I've looked at big stores like Bic Camera and Yodobashi but not seeing it.
I'll probably end up ordering from solaris sometime later this year, but heck I'm going to be there so I thought it worth asking.
Any JapanGAF member here, particularly if you're in Osaka and frequent Den Den Town, can tell me where the XRGB mini FM is sold at any 'brick and mortar' retailers, i.e. not online? I will be there on vacation in June, travelling all over from Tokyo to Kagoshima, but mostly in Kyoto. I will be in Osaka one day and will have a few hours for Den Den Town. I've looked at big stores like Bic Camera and Yodobashi but not seeing it.
I'll probably end up ordering from solaris sometime later this year, but heck I'm going to be there so I thought it worth asking.
I guess I should shop this pic to try and see
(Current TV is 46 inch. Not actually mounted though, I haven't bothered doing it yet.)
Thanks!
Prices look good compared to what I remember. That weak yen.
Looks like the Mini + D-Terminal bundle is what I want since I do have a PS2 that I want to use, correct?
Looks fine to me.
The only real issue is that your speakers are getting in the way of the screen. You should just throw them away and play without sound.
Correct. That's what I do with my PS2. Works very well.
You know what though? I think that TV could go bigger.
ENHANCE.
So GAF, I found this at a yard sale for about $5 CAD
Model is Sony PVM-5041Q.
I have no idea if it even works, and the guy who sold it to me had no idea where it came from. It seems to turn on, but it only takes BNC connectors:
What's the quickest/cheapest way I could hook something up to this just to see if it functions? Is converting RCA to BNC as simple as a female-male adapter?
Model is Sony PVM-5041Q.
I have no idea if it even works, and the guy who sold it to me had no idea where it came from. It seems to turn on, but it only takes BNC connectors:
What's the quickest/cheapest way I could hook something up to this just to see if it functions? Is converting RCA to BNC as simple as a female-male adapter?
I don't think our world can handle so much Bayonetta 2.
Awesome find! Yes, buy three BNC to RCA adapters so you can plug a component-capable console on it. Go to an electronics surplus store that sells security camera equipment.
It also has a composite in as well. Same deal, you need one adapter to use it.
Awesome find! Yes, buy three BNC to RCA adapters so you can plug a component-capable console on it. Go to an electronics surplus store that sells security camera equipment.
It also has a composite in as well. Same deal, you need one adapter to use it.
fvng
Member
$300 is pretty steep. I think if there were alternative or competing boxes that did something similar you'd see the prices drop down a bit but they enjoy being the only game in town that does what it does specifically for this purpose.
You're not really listening though, are you? You're just looking at the price and assigning a value to what you feel like you should get from it.
The point is:
There aren't alternatives / competing boxes that do something similar.
What the XRGB Mini does at its pricepoint is actually quite good. It uses a rather expensive processor to do it, and is purpose built for what we need here.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Yodobashi sells it in store. There's a stock indicator on their website (on the right hand side under the shopping cart button). If you're in Tokyo just drop by the one in Shinjuku, it's right next to the train station, they'd have it for sure.
Price seems to be a bit higher than I've seen it lately though, not sure what that's about. Oh also if you're a foreigner you should be able to get the tax back, so that would be a bit of a discount.
NormalFish
Banned
yup. Many competing upscalers are more expensive and do the job comparably or worse. The best will always be expensive, we're lucky to have something at this price be so amazing, tbh.
Seriously, they could price the XRGB Mini at $800 or $1000, and while fewer people would have them, everyone would be like "Well, it's the best thing out there" and some would still bite the bullet on it.
I've worked in advertising for years, with a variety of broadcast / video equipment. $300 is damned cheap for something that does what the XRGB Mini does.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
FWIW I've had pretty good luck with cheapo "scalers." I managed to stumble on a $40 box that forwards 240p component as 240p HDMI, which my TV accepts and does a good job of scaling for some reason. This is good for my modded SNES, PS2, PS1-on-PS2, Wii, and GC-on-Wii.
For everything else I got a $30 svideo to HDMI scaler on ebay which kinda sucks. It does a poor job of handling 240p (tries to deinterlace) but the latency is pretty good and I mostly am using it for GC Gameboy Player, which is already 480i. Looks a hell of a lot better than composite, and it does a better job of deinterlacing than my TV.
For everything else I got a $30 svideo to HDMI scaler on ebay which kinda sucks. It does a poor job of handling 240p (tries to deinterlace) but the latency is pretty good and I mostly am using it for GC Gameboy Player, which is already 480i. Looks a hell of a lot better than composite, and it does a better job of deinterlacing than my TV.
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