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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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I'm pro-missile and his quirks.
NeoGAF is my favorite video game forum I've ever been a part of, but it definitely lacks a number of interesting characters.
I find it fitting that mobile users have trouble reading his posts. His messages are like a hermit somewhere sending a hand written message through carrier pidgeon then having them transcribed to the internet for all to see!
NeoGAF is my favorite video game forum I've ever been a part of, but it definitely lacks a number of interesting characters.
I find it fitting that mobile users have trouble reading his posts. His messages are like a hermit somewhere sending a hand written message through carrier pidgeon then having them transcribed to the internet for all to see!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Fuck's sale, missile. Your posting style is absurd and dumb, but it's fine. I don't think anyone's really taking umbrage with it; it's more a question of "why is he even doing that?"
Nobody's going to actually try and kick out people who know what they're talking about in a thread like this.
Nobody's going to actually try and kick out people who know what they're talking about in a thread like this.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I like it, missle.
I would actually enjoy it if you went in depth with your setup and how/why you post that way, but probably not here.
I would actually enjoy it if you went in depth with your setup and how/why you post that way, but probably not here.
StevieWhite
Member
Note to self: never let them know I'm a fraud.
So GBI ULL over Gamecube component runs at 480p without scanlines... there's also screen tearing with vertical screen movement but that may be an issue with the JVC HD monitor. It's definitely 480p because my SD BVM won't display it properly. I had read conflicting information about ULL doing or not doing proper 240p... seems it does not unless I missed a hidden toggle somewhere.
I switched to GBI LL and it ran at 240p with scanlines, no visual glitches, on both the SD and HD CRTs.
I switched to GBI LL and it ran at 240p with scanlines, no visual glitches, on both the SD and HD CRTs.
It's 100% 240p. My PVM can't do 480p either and it works with ULL with perfect scan lines.
I've heard some CRTs are not compatible with ULL because it runs at a weird refresh rate (the same as a real GBA). I think that's the issue you might be encountering.
It's 100% 240p. My PVM can't do 480p either and it works with ULL with perfect scan lines.
I've heard some CRTs are not compatible with ULL because it runs at a weird refresh rate (the same as a real GBA). I think that's the issue you might be encountering.
I'm not sure why the JVC is making it run in a weird resolution for you though unless it's upscaling from 240p.
The panel on the 720p model is 1366x768, so it's either displaying the source at its (the source's) native resolution (letterboxed/pillarboxed, if necessary), a user-selected scaled/zoomed version of the source's native res, or scaling it to one of the pre-defined, user-selected sampled resolutions (as outlined in the manual.)
They operate similar to a PVM; providing the user a lot of agency over how the input source is handled/displayed, and allowing for different settings to be saved to different inputs/devices.
So it does what you tell it to do with the source.
Movalpolos
Banned
Wondering if anyone can help out with this. Using a model 2 genesis with the SCART connected to the 32x and into the xrgb mini. Getting these little flickering dots in all the games I've tried. Seems to only occur in certain areas of games though.
Can this be remedied?
This is one instance occurring while paused on this stage in Shinobi 3. Without it paused it goes away.
Can this be remedied?
This is one instance occurring while paused on this stage in Shinobi 3. Without it paused it goes away.
That's part of the image that would normally be hidden by overscan. I get it too.
Movalpolos
Banned
Hi guys 'n gals!
That's funny!
Thanks to all those who left some kind words, funny words at times (nice one,
televator! xD), about me during the ban.
I came to the conclusion to ask the main contributors of this thread, and the
currently very active ones; whether they can accept my 80 characters limited
posting style or not?
Peagles
Peltz
baphomet
sixteen-bit
IsishNinja
Khaz
Sixfortyfive
NormalFish
antibolo
Timu
televator
D.Lo
Mega
Friend of Sonic
tehSlacker
geniusbits
Madao
Hugger
Rich!
speedlolita
Chacranajxy
Shin Johnpv
Rongolian
StevieWhite
RadarScope1
Lettuce
entremet
BocoDragon
SheepyGuy
...
I'm glad you're a good sport about my jesting.
I'm fine with your post style. I'll read whatever you post because there's usually some information to it. However my only concern is that some of our more technically proficient members might just skip your your posts and spoil any opportunity for interesting and heavy tech discussion. I've been doing lots of googling and reading up on color spaces and picture processing, but I lack personal experience with hands on hardware and programming stuff. I really wish we could have graphs and maths and super nerd tier talk here more often. Those are my 2 cents on it.
It's not just the JVC. The BVM won't properly run ULL either. It does that split double picture thing that Sony monitors do when you feed them a source with higher resolution than the display supports (I know this isn't good so I turned off the monitor before I tried again and got the same thing). Otherwise I would use the BVM because the reduced GBA window isn't as small as it is on the 17" JVC. ULL is definitely outputting a 480p signal to all connected displays.
geniusbits
Member
That's good to hear. One last question, do 1080p (or whatever near resolution) pro plasma monitors exist or are they capped at 768p as the ones I've seen?
That's very weird. There has to be an explanation as to why we are getting different results. I know that split monitor thing because my PVM does it too for 480p sources.
I will look into this and get back to you with some info about how I set mine up.
Edit:
Missle, your posts are 100% cool in my book. I hope the mods let you post however you'd like.
Second edit: what D.Lo said! Pics please
lol how would he do that with his antique setup?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
You got my support missle!
#MissleDefenseForce2016
#MissleDefenseForce2016
geniusbits
Member
nonono, missile defense force. that is an opportunity that cannot be missed
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I don't know what you're talking about!
D.Lo
Member
He can post actual analogue photographs (or even just the film or negatives) to me in the mail. I'll scan them and post them.
PM me missle, I'll pay for postage and everything
geniusbits
Member
I mean missile defense force sounds great, it's a play on the "blank" defense force on the forum, and missiles being an actual thing that IRL would have a defense force against it
theSlacker
Member
Are there other slackers that I should be aware of?
Do what you do, chum. Just remember that even if we are fine with it it doesn't mean that a mod will be. :c
i don't mind the missile style
i use my PC 99% of the time
the posts look fine.
that's probably the issue. my CRT TV can't display GBI ULL even though i've connected it properly. it's just one of those things entirely dependant on luck.
i use my PC 99% of the time
the posts look fine.
that's probably the issue. my CRT TV can't display GBI ULL even though i've connected it properly. it's just one of those things entirely dependant on luck.
StevieWhite
Member
If you're so inclined, you can adjust the picture size/position with the mini to get rid of those dots.
Mega, maybe you downloaded GBI from the wrong source?
Check out this info:
Official documentation:
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2782
More info:
http://retrorgb.com/gameboyplayer.html
Apparently, ULL runs in a unique resolution (which visually looks identical to 240p to my eyes). Most PVMs and BVMs should be able to run it though. It also runs exactly at the right framerate of GBA LCDs which isn't at all a conventional standard.
I'd try redownloading from a more reliable source if possible. I'd be really shocked to hear that your BVM can't play it.
Check out this info:
Official documentation:
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2782
More info:
http://retrorgb.com/gameboyplayer.html
Apparently, ULL runs in a unique resolution (which visually looks identical to 240p to my eyes). Most PVMs and BVMs should be able to run it though. It also runs exactly at the right framerate of GBA LCDs which isn't at all a conventional standard.
I'd try redownloading from a more reliable source if possible. I'd be really shocked to hear that your BVM can't play it.
sixteen-bit
Member
It has been a while since I tried it, but IIRC the ULL mode ran in grayscale on my PVM. I was told it was because I was using S-Video, and it would correct itself over component. That true?
The cable should not change the resolution from 240p to 480p without any other change. Something weird is happening.
How are you loading it? Freeloader?
They do exist, they just seem to be very scarce and/or expensive. I speculate that the ones out in the wild are stilling being put to good use, so you don't see many turning up second-hand. It could be a situation that they are used until they eventually die and aren't worth fixing.
SD Media Launcher.
I had the official GBI pack from October 2015 going by the 201510 filename. I downloaded the latest from January 2016. Still 480p in ULL. I tried BVM-20F1U, JVC 1710, PVM-14L2 and PVM-8040, all different generations of pro CRT monitors. I had an exchange about this with someone on the NeoGeo forums.
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...etish-Thread&p=3970148&viewfull=1#post3970148
He claims, with quotes from the creator, that GBI over Component forces 480p.
Man, what the heck?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Anyone see any big benefit for someone just looking to play games with a EverdriveMD and a Mega Everdrive? Trying to decide if paying more for the Mega is worth it.
sixteen-bit
Member
one of them supports SMS and 32X, right?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Seems like both of them do that.
Alright looking up how much those go for now it seems like a good investment. Thank you!
It says you can yank out the Component cable and force ULL into doing 240p but that's a pretty half assed solution I wouldn't want to rely on. I don't get why both GBI and GBI ULL run in 480p, but somehow LL runs in 240p. Seems really random...
On a completely unrelated note! I sold my PVM-20M4U and BVM-20G1U.
The BVM went to fellow gaffer davidwhangchoi (hope he doesn't mind me shouting him out). Nice guy, hope the traffic wasn't as bad heading back home!
The PVM was sold this morning to a cool older man and woman, surprisingly not gamers. They're artists who do some kind of art displays that required RGB CRTs. I've heard of these people before (doing art installations with CRTs). They were pretty bummed at the skyrocketing prices of RGB pro monitors in recent years. They said not that long ago they were being tossed out by universities and other places and you could snatch them up for free.
On a completely unrelated note! I sold my PVM-20M4U and BVM-20G1U.
The BVM went to fellow gaffer davidwhangchoi (hope he doesn't mind me shouting him out). Nice guy, hope the traffic wasn't as bad heading back home!
The PVM was sold this morning to a cool older man and woman, surprisingly not gamers. They're artists who do some kind of art displays that required RGB CRTs. I've heard of these people before (doing art installations with CRTs). They were pretty bummed at the skyrocketing prices of RGB pro monitors in recent years. They said not that long ago they were being tossed out by universities and other places and you could snatch them up for free.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I can't check until later this week but I'm pretty sure GBI ULL was running at 240p on my FM over a dterm component cable.
Thanks for your commitment, guys 'n gals!
I know some people were/are at odds with me about my posting antics, so
special thanks to you if you are one of those! Well, I don't want go into the
discussion about my setup and stuff, because then I feel I have to explain
myself which is something I don't want to. Further down the road ok. On the
other hand it's a bit off-topic and, well, I lack the time somewhat to say the
least.
My thoughts are deeply focused on CRT technology, analog video art, and
retro graphics (low-poly, limited color palettes, halftoning, etc). I'm
exploring video and retro graphics as an art in its own, detached from the
system limitations they grew out from, while applying this sort of art to 3d
computer graphics, a field completely left unexplored in my book.
Back in the days you couldn't control the TV (its system response, modulation,
etc.). It wasn't possible to control the soft analog breakdown of video via
software. And you had to deal with limited colors, very limited system
performance etc. in making your game. But all these constrains have created
something very unique/minimalistic we now all love for some reason while
playing all those old games. With today's computational performance we can
explore the dynamics which unfolds when linking all these forms together.
That's also the reason I develop my CRT simulator, Retrotron, to be able
control the concept we understand as video for creating real and abstract
video art.
What drives me into this thread are the people who have a feel about retro
graphics, games, and esp. the technology behind. So there is some intrinsic
property linking it all together.
I know some people were/are at odds with me about my posting antics, so
special thanks to you if you are one of those! Well, I don't want go into the
discussion about my setup and stuff, because then I feel I have to explain
myself which is something I don't want to. Further down the road ok. On the
other hand it's a bit off-topic and, well, I lack the time somewhat to say the
least.
My thoughts are deeply focused on CRT technology, analog video art, and
retro graphics (low-poly, limited color palettes, halftoning, etc). I'm
exploring video and retro graphics as an art in its own, detached from the
system limitations they grew out from, while applying this sort of art to 3d
computer graphics, a field completely left unexplored in my book.
Back in the days you couldn't control the TV (its system response, modulation,
etc.). It wasn't possible to control the soft analog breakdown of video via
software. And you had to deal with limited colors, very limited system
performance etc. in making your game. But all these constrains have created
something very unique/minimalistic we now all love for some reason while
playing all those old games. With today's computational performance we can
explore the dynamics which unfolds when linking all these forms together.
That's also the reason I develop my CRT simulator, Retrotron, to be able
control the concept we understand as video for creating real and abstract
video art.
What drives me into this thread are the people who have a feel about retro
graphics, games, and esp. the technology behind. So there is some intrinsic
property linking it all together.
RagingAvatar
Member
I'm looking for a way to hook up my Sega Naomi to my XRGB-Mini/Framemeister - I'd like to do it over VGA, I use a Toro for my Dreamcast but I don't believe that has a VGA in..
Anyone got any suggestions?
Anyone got any suggestions?
It is cool...but it doesn't solve the issue with actual motion.
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