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[NOLA_Gaffer]

Somebody is selling a JVC TM-A13SU 13" CRT monitor near me. Has anybody had any experience with this line of monitors?

Good buy? They are asking for 125.

EDIT: Ahhh, it doesn't look like it even accepts an RGB input. Nevermind.

For what it's worth, I picked up that model from someone last month and I think it's damn fine.

If you're not ready to make the full jump into RGB town it's a decent set, and even then the composite and s-video input look great on it.

I do think $125 may be a bit high though. The one I bought was listed at $65 and he knocked it down to $50 due to some damage to the casing.

Please excuse the usual image quality fuckery from taking pictures of a CRT screen.

 

[Peltz]

I'm looking for a way to hook up my Sega Naomi to my XRGB-Mini/Framemeister - I'd like to do it over VGA, I use a Toro for my Dreamcast but I don't believe that has a VGA in..

Anyone got any suggestions?

I'd actually wait for the OSSC if I were you. Sounds perfect for (truly) lagless VGA to HDMI and Fudoh gave it a glowing review.

If you still want XRGB features to upscale to 1080p, you could then use the Mini which accepts HDMI in.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

snipped

Ah, I thought it definitely looked familiar. That does look nice, but I'm already running RGB via SCART into a YUV/Component converter into a decent Toshiba CRT TV. I don't wanna go back!

Thanks for the info, though. I live in Boston and this town seems barren of monitors at the moment.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Ah, I thought it definitely looked familiar. That does look nice, but I'm already running RGB via SCART into a YUV/Component converter into a decent Toshiba CRT TV. I don't wanna go back!

Thanks for the info, though. I live in Boston and this town seems barren of monitors at the moment.

It's all good. New Orleans is similarly barren of monitors.

 

[RadarScope1]

NOLA, I've those pics because the monitor's old school shape reminds me of the screen shots on the back of most NES game boxes.

Also, glad you're back and weren't perma-banned.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

NOLA, I've those pics because the monitor's old school shape reminds me of the screen shots on the back of most NES game boxes.

Also, glad you're back and weren't perma-banned.

I'm still not entirely sure what I was banned for. The message said I was "shitposting" but after looking over my last 100 or so posts there's nothing standing out to me as particularly offensive. It'd be nice if mods would link you to a specific post so you know what to try to avoid in the future; I'll have to message one someday to see if they can implement that.

That being said, I 100% agree on the TV shape. When I first started searching out a CRT for my old consoles I was gonna get one of the flat-front tube televisions that most companies sold in the early 2000s, but the most I ruminated on it, the more I wanted to replicate how I would have played the games in the late 80s and early 90s, and when I came across the JVC model I ended up with I fell in love.

It's really the best of both worlds...a fairly modern set with a real retro feel.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I'm still not entirely sure what I was banned for. The message said I was "shitposting" but after looking over my last 100 or so posts there's nothing standing out to me as particularly offensive. It'd be nice if mods would link you to a specific post so you know what to try to avoid in the future; I'll have to message one someday to see if they can implement that.

That being said, I 100% agree on the TV shape. When I first started searching out a CRT for my old consoles I was gonna get one of the flat-front tube televisions that most companies sold in the early 2000s, but the most I ruminated on it, the more I wanted to replicate how I would have played the games in the late 80s and early 90s, and when I came across the JVC model I ended up with I fell in love.

it's really the best of both worlds...a fairly modern set with a real retro feel.

Only one I can think of is your Wii U emulator post which was deleted and awful.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Only one I can think of is your Wii U emulator post which was deleted and awful.

Wii U emulator post? I'm not sure I recall making a Wii U emulator post.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Wii U emulator post? I'm not sure I recall making a Wii U emulator post.

It could be someone else I've mistaken you for! IIRC a terrible post stating something along the lines of "I thought the master race was too high and mighty for console games." I might have mixed you up with someone with a similar name though.
The post derailed the thread a bit and got a ton of posts deleted though so I assumed belated ban for that mess.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

It could be someone else I've mistaken you for! IIRC a terrible post stating something along the lines of "I thought the master race was too high and mighty for console games." I might have mixed you up with someone with a similar name though.
The post derailed the thread a bit and got a ton of posts deleted though so I assumed belated ban for that mess.

I'm guessing it was me, but that was almost a month ago. I can't imagine why I would get banned now for a post I made a month ago.

Edit: I'd love to see the post I made, because I honestly can't remember it...I wonder if archive.org archives NeoGAF threads...

Edit 2: It does not, phooey. Well, for what it's worth, I often look back on posts I've made on message boards and recognize shitty opinions and things I've said. This was probably one of those times.

Edit 3: A shame things seem to be so "ban without warning" around these parts. It happened and I was blindsided by it.

 

[RadarScope1]

I think you can also get banned for bitching about bans, so be careful. The main thing is it wasn't permanent. We've all had one, don't sweat it.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Oh, sorry. Should I scrub my last few posts?

 

[RadarScope1]

Nah, you're fine. No one's a hard ass. Just a friendly reminder, that's all.

 

[lilralphie]

I have a Sony pvm 20m2u. I am hooking up a console via RGB SCART and a SCART to BNC break out cable. It works great. Now I would like to also pass through using the RGB BNC out and send it to my Framemeister.

I have another SCART to BNC breakout cable. However when I hook it up to the RGB BNC out and then use a SCART male to SCART make cable to bring it to my Framemeister, nothing happens. Hooking up my console straight into my Framemeister works fine.

Is there "directionality" to the SCART to BNC cable such that I can't use it in reverse for the PVM out? Or am I just missing some sort of setting on the PVM?

 

[Khaz]

Is there "directionality" to the SCART to BNC cable such that I can't use it in reverse for the PVM out? Or am I just missing some sort of setting on the PVM?

Scart Sync has different pins for in and out, you should investigate that.

 

[D.Lo]

Interesting video about restoring and calibrating PVMs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBqm4ThJxw&feature=related

 

[lilralphie]

Scart Sync has different pins for in and out, you should investigate that.

I'll bet that's it. Thanks

 

[entremet]

RGB for the PS2 worth it since it already supports Component rather easily?

 

[Mega]

PS2 RGB is not really worth it. A component cable is cheaper, supports 480p in games that have it, will work on more displays, and has practically equivalent picture quality. You will pay more for a good RGB cable and the adapter cable to hook it up to a display and get no real benefit.

 

[NormalFish]

RGB for the PS2 worth it since it already supports Component rather easily?

PS2 RGB is not really worth it. A component cable is cheaper, supports 480p in games that have it, will work on more displays, and has practically equivalent picture quality. You will pay more for a good RGB cable and the adapter cable to hook it up to a display and get no real benefit.

PS2 RGB has better color accuracy and generally less artifacting. It's a marginal increase that isn't really worth most peoples' time. That said, now that the OSSC is gaining momentum it's worth noting that the PS2 can output 31khz signals via SCART with an RGsB signal. Prior to now that was pretty much useless information since you needed to chain a bunch of various boxes to isolate that sync signal, but the OSSC is able to interpret that signal. I intend to use that.

 

[televator]

RGB for the PS2 worth it since it already supports Component rather easily?

If you plan on buying the OSSC transcoder, PS2 RGB is a good option now that will display up to 480p.

 

[Mega]

For CRT gaming I say practically equivalent because I tried but truly can't detect a difference between RGB and Component besides the change caused by my own brightness/contrast/chroma settings in the latter signal type.

That's interesting about the OSCC. Would you specifically need a RGsB cable?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Waaaaaaiiit a minute. PS2 can do 480p over RGB with the OSSC?

Man. I will switch over to SCART for PS2 if that's the case.

 

[televator]

That's interesting about the OSCC. Would you specifically need a RGsB cable?

Nope.

Waaaaaaiiit a minute. PS2 can do 480p over RGB with the OSSC?

Yep.

 

[Seven Force]

Okay, so I want to get an upscaler primarily for my Saturn and SNES. (Famicom too, but I'll have to get that modded, of course)

What's the most cost effective option for me here? And what cables/converters would I need in addition to that?

 

[televator]

Okay, so I want to get an upscaler primarily for my Saturn and SNES. (Famicom too, but I'll have to get that modded, of course)

What's the most cost effective option for me here? And what cables/converters would I need in addition to that?

The OSSC will be cheaper than the XRGB Mini, but the most cost effective route is to feed RGB SCART to the Scart to Component converter; and plug Component straight to your TV - assuming your TV has component.

 

[Khaz]

assuming your TV has component.

And that your TV accepts 240p over Component. That's the big unknown in using this kind of setup.

 

[televator]

And that your TV accepts 240p over Component. That's the big unknown in using this kind of setup.

Right, that too. I always take that detail for granted.

 

[Seven Force]

And that your TV accepts 240p over Component. That's the big unknown in using this kind of setup.

Hmm. Would booting up a Wii VC game over component be a good way to check that?

 

[dodgeme]

Trying something with my Olympus OEV203 this week. Haven't really had the space and have been wanting to get into some arcade games for cheap so threw Lakka on an old PC to emulate some arcade games and picked up and Extron VSC 300 and Extron RGB unit to throw the display onto my monitor.

Interested to see how well it works out.

 

[Khaz]

Hmm. Would booting up a Wii VC game over component be a good way to check that?

I believe you could use the 240p test suite for the Wii? I don't think any Wii game, or Gamecube, were 240p, only 480i.

 

[Seven Force]

I believe you could use the 240p test suite for the Wii? I don't think any Wii game, or Gamecube, were 240p, only 480i.

I recall reading that when the Wii is set to 480i, NES. SNES and Genesis Virtual Console games will output at 240p.

...Which seems to be the case, since I tried booting one up with the above parameters through component, and my TV shot back with an "unsupported mode" message. So am I completely screwed on all upscalers here? Or just the direct SCART to component method mentioned earlier?

 

[Khaz]

I recall reading that when the Wii is set to 480i, NES. SNES and Genesis Virtual Console games will output at 240p.

...Which seems to be the case, since I tried booting one up with the above parameters through component, and my TV shot back with an "unsupported mode" message. So am I completely screwed on all upscalers here? Or just the direct SCART to component method mentioned earlier?

On the contrary, you must use an upscaler to get results. The Component encoder box is only a mean to convert RGB into NTSC colour space and transfer that over Component, with the TV doing the actual upscale. Since your TV cannot upscale 240p, you need an external upscaler, stuff like the OSSC or the Framemeister, whichever the upscaler crowd here will tell you is the best.

 

[geniusbits]

Okay, so I want to get an upscaler primarily for my Saturn and SNES. (Famicom too, but I'll have to get that modded, of course)

What's the most cost effective option for me here? And what cables/converters would I need in addition to that?

Cost effective is where you will hit a snag. The two options considered "good" here are the XRGB mini Framemeister, which will run you about $300 not counting cables. You would need SCART cables for each console and a SCART to 8 pin converter, that's about $50 in cables. The new option is the OSSC people are talking about, which is probably going to end up being about $100 less than the XRGB mini.

 

[NormalFish]

For CRT gaming I say practically equivalent because I tried but truly can't detect a difference between RGB and Component besides the change caused by my own brightness/contrast/chroma settings in the latter sign type.

That's interesting about the OSCC. Would you specifically need a RGsB cable?

Waaaaaaiiit a minute. PS2 can do 480p over RGB with the OSSC?

Man. I will switch over to SCART for PS2 if that's the case.

Televator pretty much covered it but I figured I'd back him up. The sync info should be bundled on green so no need for a specific cable, and the OSSC shouldn't have any issues with interpreting it (Extron devices I believe can handle it as well?).

 

[Seven Force]

Cost effective is where you will hit a snag. The two options considered "good" here are the XRGB mini Framemeister, which will run you about $300 not counting cables. You would need SCART cables for each console and a SCART to 8 pin converter, that's about $50 in cables. The new option is the OSSC people are talking about, which is probably going to end up being about $100 less than the XRGB mini.

Huh. I assued the Framemeister would be like, $500 minus cables. If that's the case, I might definitely go that route. Where's the best place to buy one?

 

[NormalFish]

Solaris Japan is the place to buy a new Framemeister.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Thanks Amazon!

I bought a Framemeister fullfilled by them, was disappointed at the poor 480p handling, and also found the lag to be too high (when combined with my TV lag, which doesn't bother me so much on its own), and returned it and got a full credit within three days.

Thought this might be useful for those on the fence. Easy returns = reduced risk.

 

[NormalFish]

was it cheaper than Solaris?

That's what worries me about that device, hell I don't like using upscalers in general. Only one I mainly use is a Inline 1402 for my PS2 to deinterlace those games to get 60 FPS. And for some Sega Saturn games.

I vastly prefer direct connections over upscalers because I want lag free gaming, thankfully the Inline 1402 is lag free.

what deinterlacing method does it use that is lag free? I was under the impression that was pretty much impossible unless you were using a really minimal deinterlacing process (as opposed to the framemeister, which is almost indistinguishable from true 480p

 

[Timu]

Thanks Amazon!

I bought a Framemeister fullfilled by them, was disappointed at the poor 480p handling, and also found the lag to be too high (when combined with my TV lag, which doesn't bother me so much on its own), and returned it and got a full credit within three days.

Thought this might be useful for those on the fence. Easy returns = reduced risk.

That's what worries me about that device, hell I don't like using upscalers in general. Only one I mainly use is a Inline 1402 for my PS2 to deinterlace those games to get 60 FPS. And for some Sega Saturn games.

I vastly prefer direct connections over upscalers because I want lag free gaming, thankfully the Inline 1402 is lag free.

 

[Beer Monkey]

was it cheaper than Solaris?

$338 shipped.

 

[Timu]

was it cheaper than Solaris?

what deinterlacing method does it use that is lag free? I was under the impression that was pretty much impossible unless you were using a really minimal deinterlacing process (as opposed to the framemeister, which is almost indistinguishable from true 480p

It only deinterlaces when things are in motion, though I do not notice input lag or else I wouldn't be able to play fighting games on it(which I use for a lot of those games).

 

[televator]

Any true deinterlacing = lag. Combining fields of a 480i frame, means you have to hold field A in memory and then at least weave it with field B. Weaving is perhaps the quickes deinterlace method in terms of lag. You may have a harder time noticing lag, but you will have combing artifacts in motion. Some or many devices will use weaving in still imagery and then switch to more advanced motion compensation processes whe something on screen moves or the whole scene begins to pan. This process is more likely to introduce noticeable lag.

I think that's what Timu's device does. Switches from minimal lag weaving in still imagery to motion compensation.

 

[baddvision]

the brionvega doney 12 is there a way to hookup a genesis to it?

 

[Timu]

Any true deinterlacing = lag. Combining fields of a 480i frame, means you have to hold field A in memory and then at least weave it with field B. Weaving is perhaps the quickes deinterlace method in terms of lag. You may have a harder time noticing lag, but you will have combing artifacts in motion. Some or many devices will use weaving in still imagery and then switch to more advanced motion compensation processes whe something on screen moves or the whole scene begins to pan. This process is more likely to introduce noticeable lag.

I think that's what Timu's device does. Switches from minimal lag weaving in still imagery to motion compensation.

While this is true, the lag(if there's any) seems so minimal to me that it doesn't stop me for not only playing but completing games using it. I did notice a huge input delay when I played on a certain HDTV at home and couldn't play any game on it at all, like it was impossible to do anything which is bad for me and was an example of really bad input lag. The Fighters Megamix playthrough I did for youtube uses that device and you can check that out as an example of what you described to me. Now if the lag was really bad I would not be using that device at all, because if there is too much lag for me to play a game, definitely a fighting game where all my inputs matter the most along with shumps, I won't bother with it.

This is also why I don't like recording 480i/PS2/certain Saturn games(though I used RGB for it mostly). I want progressive output to be a standard for my recordings, and most PS2 games are 480i, so it's pretty much the only console I use an upscaler for.

 

[NormalFish]

It only deinterlaces when things are in motion, though I do not notice input lag or else I wouldn't be able to play fighting games on it(which I use for a lot of those games).

this seems like a feature that would cause even more lag, idk.

Any true deinterlacing = lag. Combining fields of a 480i frame, means you have to hold field A in memory and then at least weave it with field B. Weaving is perhaps the quickes deinterlace method in terms of lag. You may have a harder time noticing lag, but you will have combing artifacts in motion. Some or many devices will use weaving in still imagery and then switch to more advanced motion compensation processes whe something on screen moves or the whole scene begins to pan. This process is more likely to introduce noticeable lag.

I think that's what Timu's device does. Switches from minimal lag weaving in still imagery to motion compensation.

There's still lag, though. And I would think that switching would introduce even more lag.
**
On top of this, if 480i is your issue, the framemeister is pretty much the best device for deinterlacing in games out there. ~2 frames of lag could be worse, though for fighters that's rough.

 

[Timu]

On top of this, if 480i is your issue, the framemeister is pretty much the best device for deinterlacing in games out there. ~2 frames of lag could be worse, though for fighters that's rough.

How much input lag is on the framemeister?

 

[televator]

this seems like a feature that would cause even more lag, idk.

There's still lag, though. And I would think that switching would introduce even more lag.
**
On top of this, if 480i is your issue, the framemeister is pretty much the best device for deinterlacing in games out there. ~2 frames of lag could be worse, though for fighters that's rough.

Yeah, there's lag. I said throuout my post deinterlacing = lag. I also do have more concern for 480i picture quality than lag, so I agree the FM so far can't be beat for gaming deinterlacing.

 

[NormalFish]

How much input lag is on the framemeister?

i think the typical numbers are about 1-2 frames. depending on the source.
I have the number 22ms in my head but I don't know if that's right.

Yeah, there's lag. I said throuout my post deinterlacing = lag. I also do have more concern for 480i picture quality than lag, so I agree the FM so far can't be beat for gaming deinterlacing.

Yes.

 

[televator]

While this is true, the lag(if there's any) seems so minimal to me that it doesn't stop me for not only playing but completing games using it. I did notice a huge input delay when I played on a certain HDTV at home and couldn't play any game on it at all, like it was impossible to do anything which is bad for me and was an example of really bad input lag. The Fighters Megamix playthrough I did for youtube uses that device and you can check that out as an example of what you described to me. Now if the lag was really bad I would not be using that device at all, because if there is too much lag for me to play a game, definitely a fighting game where all my inputs matter the most along with shumps, I won't bother with it.

This is also why I don't like recording 480i/PS2/certain Saturn games(though I used RGB for it mostly). I want progressive output to be a standard for my recordings, and most PS2 games are 480i, so it's pretty much the only console I use an upscaler for.

Props. Your little box does a good job. It has a little quirk though. When the frame freezes on the victory poses, you see combing. A little odd, but not a deal breaker.

Yes.

No, U.