Aye. I know at least some games are hex edited to run 720p. Xbox is super duper easy to softmod too, so hopefully theres a way.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Aye. I know at least some games are hex edited to run 720p. Xbox is super duper easy to softmod too, so hopefully theres a way.
Yeah, though I didn't use my upscaler for this or any deinterlacing methods as this is what it looks like with none of that applied, it's just interlaced. It's not even in a progressive output as my capture card is limited to 30 FPS with interlaced output, it only does up to 60 with progressive output so that's where my upscaler has to come in to deinterlace it and get a progressive output to even record it at 60FPS which is funny enough the framerate the game runs at.
I found a little more info on the second DAC processor in the OG Xbox.
VGA modding the Xbox with this chip and probably others is a real doable process.
H-sync = Pin 35
V-sync = Pin 36
Xbox VGA tutorial
S-video mod
Add digital audio out directly on the Xbox (no component cable/box needed.)
More data.
So if I have this right in this chip, RGB Scart comes from: RGB(full?) -> YCbCr down sample -> Upscale/downscale -> deflicker -> horizontal scaler (for wide screen?) -> RGB up sampler and encoder
So it outputs RGB Scart in a similar fashion to the GameCube. Meanwhile, RGBHV travels completely unaltered, and YPbPr skips the 2D scaler and deflicker.
VGA modding the Xbox with this chip and probably others is a real doable process.
H-sync = Pin 35
V-sync = Pin 36
Xbox VGA tutorial
S-video mod
Add digital audio out directly on the Xbox (no component cable/box needed.)
More data.
So if I have this right in this chip, RGB Scart comes from: RGB(full?) -> YCbCr down sample -> Upscale/downscale -> deflicker -> horizontal scaler (for wide screen?) -> RGB up sampler and encoder
So it outputs RGB Scart in a similar fashion to the GameCube. Meanwhile, RGBHV travels completely unaltered, and YPbPr skips the 2D scaler and deflicker.
sixteen-bit
Member
Metroid Fusion GBI LL footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON1ADe4fHM4
spoilers for the game or whatever
I know GBA games were designed to be viewed on a fixed pixel system but it looks mad charming on a CRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON1ADe4fHM4
spoilers for the game or whatever
I know GBA games were designed to be viewed on a fixed pixel system but it looks mad charming on a CRT
That is amazing.
One of my fav Metroid games is looking great on that!
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Weird xbox stuff. Im not sure i've seen a xbox port look worse than a ps2 version of the same game, but all this discussion is way out of my league anyway heh
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Is this the same video revision that broke progressive scan on Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragon Orta, Gunvalyrie and Fable?
D.Lo
Member
It's not the games that look worse, but the image quality, if via RGB or component in 480i, for some models.
No, according to what I've read, the revision with the Xcalibur processor was the culprit. I believe that was the last revision.
Anyway, I also found the data sheet for the Conexant processor and it's functionally the same as the focus one. The major differences between the 2 is that the focus processor, was cheaper to manufacture, ran cooler, and used less power. I suppose if there is a picture quality difference between these, it would have something to do with either the quality of the of the chroma down/up sampling, the quality of the (4) 10 bit DACs, or both. I think another major difference is that the Conexant has an adaptive flicker filter which might produce less degradation of PQ under certain circumstances. I have not yet found reference to an adaptive filter in the Focus processor. The Focus only seems to have a simpler flicker filter. There's a bunch graphs and maths on both data sheets and if I were more knowledgable AV expert, perhaps I could judge what components are better between the two with more certainty.
I've yet to find a data sheet for the Xcalibur. I think there may be more architectural differences than the first two processors that caused issues with certain games.
Polioliolio
Member
Said goodbye to my 27 inch trinitron that I got on craigslist, about 7 or 8 months ago..
Now that I'm moving again and games back out of storage, I couldn't resist, and found another trinitron on craigslist. This one's the 32 inch mother.. Jesus is this thing huge and heavy.. You need two grown men to even lift it, let alone move it anywhere, and it's still a pain in the ass. I'm going to loath the day it stops working.
Haven't had a chance to work with it yet, and no games are hooked up, but could someone refer me to that 'top secret' repair man's menu with all the screen adjustments? I remember that helpful info in this thread back when I got the ol' 27 inch. Definitely going to be messing with that soon.
Now that I'm moving again and games back out of storage, I couldn't resist, and found another trinitron on craigslist. This one's the 32 inch mother.. Jesus is this thing huge and heavy.. You need two grown men to even lift it, let alone move it anywhere, and it's still a pain in the ass. I'm going to loath the day it stops working.
Haven't had a chance to work with it yet, and no games are hooked up, but could someone refer me to that 'top secret' repair man's menu with all the screen adjustments? I remember that helpful info in this thread back when I got the ol' 27 inch. Definitely going to be messing with that soon.
Ok, I'm not following every single point like a pro, but this conversation about the OG XBOX is helping me to put some light on why my PAL system looks so noticeable worse - 'worse' as in blurrier/muddier - than any other retro concole I own, in RGB. Thanks guys!
Google your model number or chassis number + service manual. It should be written in there, along with a lot of useful information about how to repair it.
Once I've softmodded mine to have everything in 480p, I never went back to RGB. Of all the games I own, only Enter the Matrix (both PAL and NTSC) refuse to work. The PAL disc because I set the console as NTSC, and the NTSC disc because it's still a physical PAL console. Madness.
bodeiseifer
Member
I can remember coming off of owning a dreamcast, which had great rgb scart pq, to an og xbox which looked like ass over rgb, i upgraded to a crystal xbox a few years later as those ones definetly have a different better rgb scart video chip and looked allot better via rgb, can't comment on component, but you can modchip a pal xbox to get proggresive scan, though mine never outputs 720p for some reason, even on emulators, only 480p or 1080i.
Weird
For now, I solved the brutal way, which was to simply switch to S-video.
Sure it forced me to accept some minor compromise in terms of colour saturation, but the picture quality is vastly improved.I'm a bit wary of modding my console, mainly because I tried one ages ago - it was a PAL system with a multi-region mod in it - which had compatibility issues with some NTSC-U games I had in my collection. Also, as you wrote, you never know what kind of bonkers stuff you're gonna find out, when you region-free a PAL console... My fat PS2 - which got modded with a Messiah 2 Pro chip - plays no problem all my 150+ import games, BUT the Japanese Strikers 1945 I + II, which bizarrely runs at 50hz no matter what.
geniusbits
Member
Is the software easy to find and connect, or does it rely on really old disc interface? Also, does the 480p "lock" stop it from being able to do 720p on compatible games?
You need a specific game, an (old) USB key, and a mean to connect it to your console. It can be found on eBay, and the software is easily found online.
It doesn't lock the console to 480p, it removes the 480i/576i lock. Most PAL games can do 480p even though it's not advertised on the back cover.
I'm reading PAL games that don't have a 60hz option (see Halo), only play music but show no picture on screen. Is that true?
Most of them have, only a few were optimised, Halo 1 is one of them.
geniusbits
Member
Yes.
Thx!
If you still have your crystal Xbox can you please take a pic of the sticker underneath that has the manufacture date and serial number?
Opening it up is a more sure fire way of determining what video encoder is inside, but I can more or less narrow it down based on what the sticker says.
geniusbits
Member
Is this useful for a North American console?
Kiddy Dong
Member
I'm considering buying a PVM 20M4U in my area for $200, is that a fair price? I'm not very familiar with PVMs.
It sounds a little high in comparison to what may be suggested on this forum, but not ridiculously so. Several factors need to be taken in to consideration; availability in your area, or the feasibility (or lack there of) of ordering one online, included.
Demand has played a role in driving prices up, and supply has sort of stagnated. That being said, there will always be someone (or a significant other) who is sick of the bullshit associated with having a 1.5' cube in their home, so they do pop up in classifieds, periodically...
If you have the ability to see it in action, and pick it up locally, it's not a terrible price. Go for it!
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I turned on my Saturn for the first time today.
This thing has really nice composite output, like probably the cleanest I've ever seen. I ordered an rgb cable online a few days ago but now I'm like... do I even need it?
This thing has really nice composite output, like probably the cleanest I've ever seen. I ordered an rgb cable online a few days ago but now I'm like... do I even need it?
Yes...because it looks way better. Hell even svideo looks damn good on it!
Of course you do. Everybody doubt the greatness of RGB before seeing it first-hand. You will see the light soon.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Hi ya'll, I'm getting interested in playing some classic Sega Genesis/MD games and am trying to figure out the best way to do so with my setup and getting them to display at a good resolution and image quality via RGB on my CRT.
The most reasonable option would be to get the Sega Genesis collection on PS3 or XB360 and go component into my TV. Would this produce good results as far as recreating the experience?
I couldn't believe the difference of RGB vs composite on my Saturn. Definitely give it a go.
The most reasonable option would be to get the Sega Genesis collection on PS3 or XB360 and go component into my TV. Would this produce good results as far as recreating the experience?
I couldn't believe the difference of RGB vs composite on my Saturn. Definitely give it a go.
It's the cleanest I've seen as well. It's crazy how good it is.
I still use RGB of course... But you could totally get by without it on Saturn.
sixteen-bit
Member
like, try it before asking lol
Hey guys, stupid question I guess. Right now I'm using a Hama scart switch box, plugged into my CRT TV. The day I'll finally find a PVM, will I need only one scart-to-PVM-connectors adapter (in order to connect the switch box to the monitor, and the consoles straight to the box), or a single adapter for each system?
sixteen-bit
Member
it's way more cost effective to just get one that goes from the switch to the monitor.
Yeah, exactly. I was only wondering if a switch box intended for TVs could've worked fine on a monitor too. Thanks for clarifying. ^_-
Yeah, one Male Scart to Male RGBS BNC adapter.
A little high for me but they're fetching that amount and higher nowadays. If the picture is in excellent shape, it's worth it. Maybe negotiate to 125-150.
Shin Johnpv
Member
To be yet another voice, YES RGB is beyond worth it going from any system's composite.
speedlolita
Member
The PS3/360 option would only be interesting if you didn't have an RGB/Component-able CRT. Just get an original console with either a Scart cable plus a Component encoding box, or wait for the Component cable. It won't be much more expensive and you will get the real, lagless unemulated deal with the original controllers.
I feel so lucky. A guy on ebay just asked me for € 30Paid £20 for mine.
Ace image quality.
0
lol
geniusbits
Member
Saturn question: I'm looking to change out my NTSC-U model 2 for an NTSC-J model 1, can I use the same SCART cable? I have one from retro_console_accessories.
Follow up questions:
1) I have the Action Replay and can play Japanese games on my North American system, does that work the other way around?
2) Arcade sticks, I'm deciding between the Japanese Virtua stick (that I love the look of) and the Ascii stick. I'm seeing Ascii sticks on eBay for ~$30 shipped, Virtua sticks are more like $40 including shipping.
Follow up questions:
1) I have the Action Replay and can play Japanese games on my North American system, does that work the other way around?
2) Arcade sticks, I'm deciding between the Japanese Virtua stick (that I love the look of) and the Ascii stick. I'm seeing Ascii sticks on eBay for ~$30 shipped, Virtua sticks are more like $40 including shipping.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The Saturn was the first system I tried using via RGB. I thought to myself "it's low res, why would I expect this to look good?"
NOPE. As soon as I hooked it up with RGB, everything was razor sharp. It was perfect.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I use the same cable from the same seller on my Japanese Saturn and have no issues.
As for the Action Replay cart, yes it works to play NA games on a J system.
The Virtua Stick, the HS-0136, is what I have, and I'm very satisfied with it.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I'm well aware of how nice RGB is, I'm just really impressed with Saturn composite. It's the best I've ever seen composite looking. Of course I'll start using the RGB cable when it arrives.
After being so bothered by the shit composite coming out of my AV Famicom that I desoldered a 40-pin DIP chip with a bulb, it was just a very welcome sight.
After being so bothered by the shit composite coming out of my AV Famicom that I desoldered a 40-pin DIP chip with a bulb, it was just a very welcome sight.
Pancakes R Us
Member
This looks stunning. What's up with that thick, dark line running down the screen every 10 or so seconds, though?
Also, any idea what size screen that is being played on, is that a result of the recording device?
geniusbits
Member
Thanks!
geniusbits
Member
Dreamcast questions:
1) Do Japanese controllers work with North American systems? My wife wants the Japanese Hello Kitty keyboard for Typing of the Dead.
2) Does the Toro set to 240p/480i work to hook up the DC to an SD CRT?
Finally got a working DC and have been playing some of the games I got from it. Marvel vs. Capcom tore up my left thumb, hence being in the market for a Saturn stick that I will use the Total Control 3 to convert to DC. Anyone have experience with what? I'm STILL waiting on my Toro, it's been almost 2 months and I'm about to head to the post office and inquire as to what I can do about this. If only I had some kind of information telling me that it isn't just lost in a void somewhere and never coming, I would feel ok about it.
1) Do Japanese controllers work with North American systems? My wife wants the Japanese Hello Kitty keyboard for Typing of the Dead.
2) Does the Toro set to 240p/480i work to hook up the DC to an SD CRT?
Finally got a working DC and have been playing some of the games I got from it. Marvel vs. Capcom tore up my left thumb, hence being in the market for a Saturn stick that I will use the Total Control 3 to convert to DC. Anyone have experience with what? I'm STILL waiting on my Toro, it's been almost 2 months and I'm about to head to the post office and inquire as to what I can do about this. If only I had some kind of information telling me that it isn't just lost in a void somewhere and never coming, I would feel ok about it.
NormalFish
Banned
I asked marqs about pricing for the preassembled OSSC and he reported that it was stick to the initial estimate of about 160 EUR.
Not super cheap, but it's still probably the most economic solution for what it's offering, unless you get some nutty deals.
Not super cheap, but it's still probably the most economic solution for what it's offering, unless you get some nutty deals.
$180
It's ~4x the price of a terrible SCART to HDMI scaler, but 100x the quality. That's a bargain price for both quality, and considering the field of top notch transcoders/scalers (aside from the Framemeister) traditionally costing 3 - 5 times more than that.
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